Who Do We Need More, a CB or a Backup ST?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by manunited1919, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. Jun 28, 2018
    #1

    manunited1919 Full Member

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    I see many posts about us needing a LB, another CB, and a RW, and sometimes another midfielder. I am concerned, because everytime we’ve played without Lukaku using Rashford as a backup striker we look a totally ineffective team.

    Given that funds are limited, I would like to ask who we need more:

    • A centerback because we need a real leader to build from the back.
    • A backup striker, Rashford is not ready to lead the line.
    • Neither: we just resign Fellaini who can play as backup striker and will provide the leadership with his elbows.
    @Raoul can you get a poll started please?
  2. Jun 28, 2018
    #2

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    CB

    Whilst the reality is real that we looked utterly toothless without Lukaku at the end of last season he's a relatively fit lad who doesn't get injured alot whereas we cannot go on with Smalling and Jones and even Bailly and Lindelof need someone top class next to them
  3. Jun 28, 2018
    #3

    Sylar Full Member

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    Its a strange one. We have so many CBs yet i still think we lack one (possibly for the LCB role).
    For strikers, I think we are ok in that department, but the issue we have is when we dont play Lukaku, we should be changing the way we play rather than just hoping Martial or Rashford would do the same stuff Lukaku does. (eg when we faced everton away, we played Martial up top and didnt act like he was a target man, or when we faced Chelsea at home last season and used Rashford with Lingard floating behind him).

    However the CB spot imo is more important to sort out. I dont remember the last time we had a partnership that was there for a long time (Blind and Smalling maybe?)
  4. Jun 28, 2018
    #4

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    CB out of those 2. RW is the position of most need though. Backup striker is still only a backup, of which we have Rashford (still very young) and for now still have Martial, with Sanchez who has played there before. And fellaini if we want a tree to hoof it to. Backup striker is fine.
    Order of necessity imo is:
    1. Right wing
    2. Left back
    3. Center back
    4. Backup creative mid
    5. Left wing to replace Sanchez as the starter in a year or 2
  5. Jun 28, 2018
    #5

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    For me in terms of priority positions

    1- LB
    2- CB
    3 - RW
    4- RB
    5- CF
    6- CM
    7- GK
  6. Jun 28, 2018
    #6

    manunited1919 Full Member

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    For me it’s:

    1. LB
    2. RW
    3. CF
    4. CM
    5. CB

    I should add a RB there in the #1 or #2 spot, but we have already signed Dalot, so it doesn’t look like we will buy another RB.

    I think we have plenty of CBs to choose from, and we have a range from Ok to Excellent. It’s a question of fitness for some of them, but if we are going to buy a CB we would need to sell one of Jones or Lindeloff.

    I love Lukaku, but I feel we shouldn’t go into the season without a backup CF, we need to have at least 2 lethal strikers.

    We already have one of the best defenses in the Premier League. Where we really need improvement is with our creating chances and goal scoring. LB, RB, RW, and SS for me.
  7. Jun 28, 2018
    #7

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    RW is the priority, then a LB. not buying for those two positions would be negligent.

    No need to buy a striker we have plenty of good players we just need to give whoever is playing the right service, including Lukaku. Reason we look toothless without him is so much of the service is direct and hopeful and no one else has the same combination of physicality and pace to make it work (doesn’t even get most out of Lukaku).

    We do need a CB, not as much as a RW or LB but that is where I expect manager to prioritise next as it is such an important part of his defensive outlook.
  8. Jun 28, 2018
    #8

    Fer Full Member

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    This.
    A top RW and LB are the priorities for this summer.

    Between a CB and Backup striker, a CB would be better, but we need to sell 2 defenders first if we want to add a other one.
    If we don't sign a RW, then I would rather to sign a backup striker who is able to play on the RW, someone like Mertens.

    I would change your No.5 for a RB next year if Dalot doesn't improve Valencia.
  9. Jun 28, 2018
    #9

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Yeah I left out right back on the assumption that Dalot is what we hope and we're fine long term for that.
  10. Jun 28, 2018
    #10

    Janson Full Member

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    No way LB is that high. I think the chances are small that we get one.
  11. Jun 28, 2018
    #11

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    It's the rankings in my eyes, not what I think Mourinhos views are. Agree FWIW, dont think we're going for a left back.
  12. Jun 28, 2018
    #12

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    We don't need another striker. People thinking we need another striker have been brainwashed by Mourinho's obsession with 'presence'. With a different style of football both Martial and Rashford are perfectly capable of playing through the middle as we saw under Van Gaal. They are being made to look poor by the our reliance on hoofing the ball and the teams refusal to play football on the ground.

    A centre back is needed but again it's not the biggest priority. Our biggest need is a LB, another CM and RW.
  13. Jun 28, 2018
    #13

    Janson Full Member

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    Ok, I understand then. I think Young is good for another season. Agree that RW is top priority though.
  14. Jun 28, 2018
    #14

    SS Full Member

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    This. There's no need for another striker. Jose just needs to make an effort to be flexible.
  15. Jun 28, 2018
    #15

    van Nistelrooy Full Member

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    They're not. They're really not.
  16. Jun 28, 2018
    #16

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    A good manager!
  17. Jun 28, 2018
    #17

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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  18. Jun 29, 2018
    #18

    PieCrust Full Member

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    We don't need a new starting CB. Smalling, is one of the better defenders in the league and Bailly will partner him. If we want to get rid of either Jones or Rojo, maybe sign another squad CB. Lindelof will be kept at least 1 more season.

    As far as a backup for Lukaku, we already have Martial and Rashford, who natural position is ST. They just don't offer the same attributes as Lukaku, although his hold up play is pretty poor for such a physically gifted player. I can see Jose making a back up signing that can play the hold up single ST better than Marital or Rashford however.

    Priority positions at this point are LB, RB, RW as tier 1. Tier 2 would include CM, and CB. Tier 3. ST.
  19. Jun 29, 2018
    #19

    TheRedDevil'sAdvocate Full Member

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    I'd take (someone like) Bonucci in a heartbeat. In the vast majority of our games, especially at home, where we'll most likely be facing two banks of four and 9/10 men behind the ball, i'd rather have someone like him who'll try to play an incisive vertical pass through the lines or spray the ball out wide with a long diagonal and get us going than having all of our current defence and midfield (except for Pogba but he doesn't want to come deep anyway) passing endlessly the ball between them like fearful kittens just to hoof it towards the forward or pass it to someone who's marked.

    Football is constantly changing and in the last few years, with high pressing tactics and the focus on the game with the ball (proactive football) becoming prominent, being comfortable on the ball has become (kind of) a prerequisite for central defenders at the highest level. And if you don't want to follow the trend, which is fine, you should at least adjust your gameplan in order to recreate your own formula. Mourinho's already done that when he utilized Fabregas next to Matic. Creativity and composure in deeper areas are essential to today's game. What you can't do is nullify any ball-playing skills from your CB partnership and prioritize defensive abilities in the two players in front of them and deploy two FBs who offer absolutely nothing going forward too and then expect that four attackers (in your 4231) will beat on their own football sides, which are becoming less and less afraid to have the ball at their feet, week in and week out and in Europe.

    Having said that, i share your scepticism regarding our options when Rom isn't available. But Mourinho has already shown that he's willing to always play Lukaku because the latter is one of his go-to men on the pitch and Jose's greatest sides have always been built around the trust that's created between him and a certain core of players. He's never been a master of rotation and he probably never will be. In this sense, i can't see which decent to good forward will come here just to spend 70-80% of the season on the bench. One i can think of is Mandzukic (i mention him because i really rate him): At an age where he'll be looking for his last big contract and he fits Mourinho's primary criteria since he's physical, very (very, very) hard working and defensively reliable and has no problem playing as a wide target man (a good idea by Allegri now that FBs have become attacking weapons). But i guess that even he, as a forward who has scored in two CL finals, will probably look for something better than spending his time on the bench.
  20. Jun 29, 2018
    #20

    Marcky411 Full Member

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    :lol: Would love to see Zidane come in.
  21. Jun 29, 2018
    #21

    Red4Life_#7 Full Member

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    Exactly this!! We are too predictable upfront and someone like Bale could stretch teams and has the ability to shoot from distance as well as converting free-kicks (we have lack a top class free kick taker for a long time).

    Left back... bring balance to the team etc.

    CB, Someone needs to be sold and replaced. Also they have to be a ball playing CB.

    Centre Mid, I think this is definitely last on the list and not essienital. Between Pogba, Matic, Fellaini, Fred, Herrera, Mc Tommy and Perrera we have options.
  22. Jun 29, 2018
    #22

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

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    The below are all the right wing signings we've made since we signed Valencia back in 09/10.

    Right Wing Signings:

    Henrikh Mkhitaryan - Flop
    Ángel Di María - Flop
    Juan Mata
    Wilfried Zaha - Flop
    Bebé - Flop
    Antonio Valencia
    Gabriel Obertan - Flop

    Only Mata and Valencia can be considered not flops. Valencia now converted to a RB. Mata a squad player.

    Right Wing is the most important area to strengthen (hopefully with a player that isn't a flop).
  23. Jun 29, 2018
    #23

    Salus Populi Suprema Lex Full Member

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    Jose is definitely looking for a CB. It's being reported talks for Alderweireld have stalled, as Spurs are playing hardball, but I'm sure we'll be getting a new player in that position. We have plenty of goals in the team, it's just that Jose won't give them licence to really show it, given his preference for a disciplined system and safety first.
  24. Jun 29, 2018
    #24

    el3mel Full Member

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    A backup striker for me. We always used to have 3-4 strikers available in the squad, not we only have one with other players that can just occupy the role but not their primary one.
  25. Jun 29, 2018
    #25

    gza the genius Full Member

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    In my eyes, Jose was trying to prove a point towards the end of last season when Lukaku was out. He just threw Rashford or Martial up top without changing our tactics whatsoever, there was no way they were going to succeed.

    That's not to say there won't be a step down if Lukaku gets hurt again next season and we have to rely on those two but I do think between them both we have enough strikers - it's just a matter of Jose trying to get the best out of them.

    I'd much rather get a center back.
  26. Jun 29, 2018
    #26

    wolvored Full Member

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    I would agree with that
  27. Jun 29, 2018
    #27

    Ikon Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Don't need a back up CF at all.
    We've already (still) got Rashford & Martial both needing game time. End of.

    Our distribution and delivery from defence is truly shocking, FB & CB are the utmost priority in my opinion.
  28. Jun 29, 2018
    #28

    scoi New Member

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    A right wing and left back will add more balance when going forward, which in turn should give more space so the likes of Rashford should do better next season with the right additions to the squad. A backup striker is way down the list IMO and i would take the approach that you fix the weakest part of the starting XI first, i.e LB and RW.
  29. Jun 29, 2018
    #29

    mitchmouse Full Member

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    a winger, a winger, my kingdom for a winger (or two)
  30. Jul 3, 2018
    #30

    RedRoseTyke New Member

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    Nicely put - in recent years we have lacked the craft to get behind the defence and cause panic with crosses.
  31. Jul 3, 2018
    #31

    kthanksbye Full Member

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    If yesterday's game is anything to go by, Lukaku can still have those days where he would't be able to score in a brothel, add to it the fact that an injury is just one bad tackle away, we should be looking to bring in a backup #9.
    As for the question in the OP, we've got numbers in CB, think ST is priority between these 2 positions.
  32. Jul 3, 2018
    #32

    RedFish Full Member

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    Id get at least one out and out striker to be back up to Lukaku. Age not an issue. Just someone who's been there done it and can whack em in. Id get 2 strikers , one with a physical presence a la arnautovic or similar and a ' fox in the box' a la Chicharito/Please.
  33. Jul 4, 2018
    #33

    Organic Potatoes Full Member

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    It all hinges on Martial’s status. With him in the fold, locking down a nailed-on long-term starter at CB is much more of a priority.

    And I think the transfer rumors reflect reality accurately in this case.
  34. Jul 7, 2018
    #34

    davidmichael Full Member

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    We have Smalling, Bailly, Jones, Lindelof, Rojo, Blind and Tuanzebe all at the club so that’s 7 into 2 positions so unless we’re going to sell 2 and loan out Tuanzebe then why do we need another centre back ?

    We have Lukaku as first choice, Rashford, Martial and Sanchez who can all play as a striker and all vying for one place up top so why do we need a back up striker ? What we NEED desperately is a world class right forward and a world class left back BEFORE ANY OTHER SIGNING FOR ANY OTHER POSITION.
  35. Jul 14, 2018
    #35

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    Because except bailly and maybe smalling all our central defenders are average at best. Quantity and quality story. One top class ball playing defender like bonucci would be fantastic for this squad.
    I would rather go in next season with lingard/ mata/ rashford on right wing than jones and smalling in defence
  36. Jul 14, 2018
    #36

    fallengt Full Member

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    Two of Jones, Smalling, Rojo need to go, enough of this shit. We've given them enough times, none of them has reached the minimum level for top club like United.
    We spent half billion yet our FB, CB, RW are still shit.
  37. Jul 14, 2018
    #37

    YouOnlyLiveTwice Full Member

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    Smalling was probably our best and most fit CB last season, so he has earned the right to stay imo. Jones should definitely leave. Lindelof or Rojo is tough. On one hand Rojo is the only left-footed CB we got, but Lindelof has maybe more potential, even though he was pretty bad last year. Rojo just got a new contract though, so it would be a bit weird if we sold him.
  38. Jul 14, 2018
    #38

    MadMike Full Member

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    I don’t disagree with you, but that problem is mostly of Mourinho’s making.

    If I ranked our CBs on their current (rather than allegedly potential) level, then Rojo and Lindelof would be at the bottom. Yet it’s only last summer that we signed one and renewed the other. Bailly seems very talented (if a bit raw) but hasn’t built any consistency over 2 years which worries me.

    The reason we’re still playing Jones and Smalling is basically because we haven’t bought well enough and haven’t managed the contracts well either. Lindelof wasn’t needed as Tuanzebe seems better every time he plays and is a youth product to boot. With hindsight we shouldn’t have bought him and we should have also sold Rojo and Jones using the money to buy one good fecking CB instead.

    We’re in a position where we can’t buy a CB till someone leaves. Can’t have 6 CBs in the squad excluding the youth. I’m not sure there’s even space in the squad for that, never mind the problem with keeping everyone sharp and happy.
  39. Jul 14, 2018
    #39

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    I am not saying that we should keep all 5 defenders. Of course that we should sell at least one. Jones especially. It is time to say goodbye with him. And the best part is that we can get decent price for him. English, in best age, playing for NT. It is 25 mil by PL standards.
    Also we can get better money for smalling. Yes, i know. Many would say that he is our best defender and so on, but if we can replace him with better defender and in the same time get very good money for him, why not? Bailly and new defender would be first pair. Rojo- lindelof second pair. Tuanzebe- mensah third pair.
    Now it is time to rebuild that defence
  40. Jul 14, 2018
    #40

    MadMike Full Member

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    Alright, I deffo disagree with that. One step forward, one step back. One injury to your new CB and the 2nd line is worse than last season. I wouldn’t call that rebuilding at all.

    I’d sell Lindelof and Rojo ahead of Smalling who’s both reliable fitness-wise and a better defender. Even if we get less money than Smalling. The target is to make the defence better not cut corners that will end up costing us more.