Who is the most overrated player in PL history?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by sullydnl, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Jan 11, 2019

    Rito New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Messages:
    46
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    Care to elucidate what are the parameters of "overall contribution" that you are harping about?

    Usually, for a midfielder scoring 200+ goals, with his basics right and a very intelligent footballing brain, I think the team and the fans will be decently satisfied with his "overall contribution" to the game.

    Of course, objectivity goes for a toss when you mention the "highly unlikable" Chelsea team.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2019
  2. Jan 11, 2019

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    Niagara Falls, Canada
    Ronaldo will be the first to tell you how good Rooney was, but Ronaldo was our best player. There was a reason why Rooney had to step aside to CR7, but that doesn't change the fact that Rooney was a world class player. Probably a top 10 player at that time...
  3. Jan 11, 2019

    Fridge chutney Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,202
    You don't half talk out of your arse about United. Rashford just turned 21 and has more goals than Danny Welbeck achieved in his entire 5/6 senior years at the club. He left for Arsenal when he was 24.

    Rashford also tends to perform well in important matches, as you'll remember from earlier this year when he embarrassed your fullback.
  4. Jan 11, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    21,443
    When you say "no-one", you mean except for every single Liverpool fan for starters. And lots of the media. When you see all time prem teams from neutrals Gerrard is often in there.
  5. Jan 11, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    21,443
    Since when do you need to be "the man" to go down as a top player?

    Scholes, Giggs etc were never the "main man" in that respect either.

    And why do people try and put Rooney down as some sort of 2 year merchant!
    Did you start following United in 2010 or something?
  6. Jan 11, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    21,443
    Good point. Only particularly staunch Chelsea fans would even dream of putting him in the same conversation as Keane, Scholes, Vieira and Gerrard.
  7. Jan 11, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    21,443
    Can't compare these two!
    Rashford will already have gone beyond welbecks total goal haul and he's still only 21.
    He's only just getting a regular start up top for an attacking team.

    He looked poor at times out wide but strikers can tend to.

    No one is saying he'll ever be a 30 goal a year man, but he has more than welbeck had about him
  8. Jan 11, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    21,443
    His goal out put was pretty low looking back as a whole. Especially for being the centre focus of such a top team.
  9. Jan 11, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    359
    Saying a player is overrated isn’t saying he’s bad though. Or even that he wasn’t excellent.

    Many on here thought Rooney was the more important player for United which was proven false by the team’s relative decline after Cristiano’s departure.
  10. Jan 11, 2019

    M Utd Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Messages:
    129
    I'd go for Michael Owen. He burst onto the scene with Liverpool and England and lots of people raved about him. Went to Madrid and didn't really cut it. Injuries played a big part in his downfall and showed just how much he relied on his pace. Once that was gone it was pretty obvious the wasn't a fantastic footballer. God knows why Newcastle spent so much on him.
    Perhaps I'm a little biased as I think he's now stealing a living as a pundit and for me he's just one of the worst.

    There's also this. Watch til the end when Southall gives him some grief about scoring against a kid as he celebrates like he's won the world cup.
  11. Jan 11, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    359
    Yeah, Drogba had a couple of great seasons as a goalscorer but was flakey as hell.

    His big game record was probably the best I’ve ever seen though, which makes me rate him higher than I usually would a player with his stats.
  12. Jan 11, 2019

    Sauldogba New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2018
    Messages:
    171
    Dont call me kid.
    Ever.

    /

    Guti was a better passer than Scholes thats not even debatable.
    Messi can do what Scholes does and more.
    A lot more.So can Pogba as well.

    Fabregas has like 50 more assists despite playing less games and playing for inferior teams.
  13. Jan 11, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    359
    18 year old Owen was a genuine phenomenon. Kids nowadays probably don’t know how good he was back then. Defenders were absolutely terrified when he ran at them.

    I’d argue that he was already on the decline when he won the Ballon d’Or in 2001. He’d lost a bit of his pace and directness by then and was on the way to being the Gary Lineker type poacher that he was until that injury that really ruined him in 2006.
  14. Jan 11, 2019

    M Utd Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Messages:
    129
    I expect the years that pass either promote or demote someone's actual career and at times it's easier to say someone was worse than they actually were as you based that judgement on their finals years. I'd openly admit I probably think him lower given me thoughts on his punditry. His tactical knowledge really seems limited or perhaps it's his inability to get that across verbally which is missing.
  15. Jan 11, 2019

    ShadesOfTomato Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,625
    Supports:
    Liverpool

    Welbeck's best PL goal tally was 9 goals in a season Man Utd won the league and he was 21. Rashford's best so far is 7. He may surpass that this season but their early careees have taken a similar trajectory so far. He's a good young player but not the prodigy some make him out to be.
  16. Jan 11, 2019

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Messages:
    993
    Location:
    Niagara Falls, Canada
    Decline after his departure? We went to another Champions League finals the next year. Also, in CR7's last year we only scored 68 league goals and the next year we scored 86 missing out on the title by 1 point to Chelsea. But the next year we were right back on top and won the league again???
  17. Jan 11, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    20,223
    The FIFPro awards are the best consensus. They award one vote to every professional player in the world (65000) to select their best World XI.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFPro#FIFA_FIFPro_World_XI

    edit: only just realised De Gea was voted in this year.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  18. Jan 11, 2019

    Sauldogba New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2018
    Messages:
    171
    Not a patch on Scholes?
    This is why i think hes a bit overrated.
    I dont know if its because hes English and England dont really produce players like him but Pogba could do what Scholes does .

    Scholes is a great passer but ive seen Pogba do what he does on a weekly basis like its nothing.

    Scholes signature pass was the crossfield pass out to the flanks with the left side of his instep on his right foot.Pogba does that with his right foot,left foot,outside of the boot.
    Sometimes even without looking.
  19. Jan 11, 2019

    Halds Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    382
    Location:
    Denmark
    Supports:
    Liverpool FC
    You should know, that the world has never seen a better passer than Scholes, son. Ever. He could hit a penny 100 yards away.. Blindfolded!
  20. Jan 11, 2019

    Grande Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,534
    Location:
    The Land of Do-What-You-Will
    Usain Bolt? Imsayin Hazard.
  21. Jan 11, 2019

    Grande Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,534
    Location:
    The Land of Do-What-You-Will
    Guti? You’ve gotta be kidding.
    Cheap shot
  22. Jan 11, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    20,223
    Scholes was a different kind of player to Pogba and Fabregas because he was a deep lying playmaker more in the mould of Pirlo or Kross. He was much more consistent with his passing and ball retention than the likes of Pogba but with less direct goal contributions.

    If you look at his last season with United his pass accuracy was 93% and he played an average 9 long balls per game with an accuracy of 85%. Only Toni Kroos in the modern game can better that.
  23. Jan 11, 2019

    RochaRoja Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    359
    United were definitely an inferior side from 2009 onwards. 2007-2009 they were unquestionably one of the two best sides in Europe. The 2011 team wasn’t a patch on that and qualified for the CL final due to a very favourable draw.
  24. Jan 11, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    4,782
    Location:
    Fresh outta jail
    Think it's satire

    EDIT: it's actually a brilliant post
  25. Jan 11, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    20,223
    It is a great post that adequately highlights the idiocy of these kind of debates.
  26. Jan 11, 2019

    shamans Hoser

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    11,188
    Location:
    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    @MJJ If you saw Owen play at his peak you'd know he was way more than just pace. The guy had a lot to his game but injuries messed him up.
  27. Jan 11, 2019

    MJJ Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    26,448
    Location:
    sunderland(1)-Derby(1)
    Okay?
  28. Jan 11, 2019

    Robbie Boy Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,545
    Location:
    Dublin
    Far from a brilliant post. A massive waste of his / her time, more so.

    Some of the names in here are hilarious, though. Not sure what metric there is to measure an 'overrated' player. I mean, there's some that are pretty obvious and then there's some absolute PL legends being mentioned which is downright bizarre. Suppose it's all just subjective opinion, at the end of the day.
  29. Jan 11, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    20,223
    I thought it was pretty funny.

    The overrated/underrated thing in football, music and life in general is bloody annoying. It generally translates to 'something/someone that is acclaimed or successful that I don't like', so yes its, by and large, a subjective exercise. Its reflective of the human ego I think, that so many people think they happen to know the 'truth' while everyone else is blind.

    That said, people seem to enjoy these debates so perhaps I should just stay out of them.
  30. Jan 11, 2019

    Sauldogba New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2018
    Messages:
    171
    Yeah hes a great player im not denying that just dont think hes as good as the others.
    Do you have a link to his 93% passing accuracy stat?
  31. Jan 11, 2019

    The_Podgy_Poet Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    Supports:
    Hartlepool United
    Pepe Reina, David Ginola, Eric Cantona, Drogba, Jose Antonio Reyes, Martin Keown, Gianfranco Zola

    Hard to pick between the them.

    EDIT: Scratch all of the above, Gazza wins this absolutely hands down. Throughout most of his Premier League career (ie post 1992 playing in England), he was far past his peak and pretty damn rubbish. Yet every damn match he played in he had commentators completely fawning over him, it was ridiculous!

    No-one can match Gazza in this topic.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  32. Jan 11, 2019

    lysglimt Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    7,220
    Ah ignore him. Lampards contribution to Chelsea was huge - to say anything else is simply ridiculous. A 1 goal in 3 midfielder is head and shoulders above anything else the P.L has seen before
  33. Jan 11, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    20,223
    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/11/History/Paul-Scholes

    It was his second to last season his last season was slightly less.

    I will say that Pogba is the most spectacular passer I have ever seen. Some of his long ball technique is crazy.

    At his peak he contributed 20, 21, 20, 20 & 27 goals over 5 seasons in all competitions for them. 108 goals in total.
  34. Jan 11, 2019

    Mb194dc Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    723
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    Harry Kane MBE. Decent goal scorer against the championship quality defences that make up most of the premier league. Good penalty taker. Very limited player in a lot of ways. Seemingly immune from criticism in the UK media, other than when claiming goals from Eriksen.

    One of the most ridiculous golden boots, surely, 6 goals comprising: 5 goals against Panama and Tunisia, 3 penalties in total, and a deflection.

    Seemingly able to swear at the referees in the premier league without punishment, immune from being offside even with VAR in use it seems.

    Current CV with zero trophies on it:
    Football League Cup runner-up: 2014–15
    FIFA World Cup fourth place: 2018

    I would love to see Kane play in Spain or Italy to see how he does, come on Harry make the move and prove me wrong!
  35. Jan 11, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    4,782
    Location:
    Fresh outta jail
    I think this was the point of the post and I found it pretty funny. Good summary of the ludicrousness of this thread so far
  36. Jan 11, 2019

    Bobski Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,487
    I hate that "The Man" nonsense as well. Such an Americanized NBA concept which does not work in a more team orientated sport. Who was "The Man" in our treble team, we has about 7 guys who split the vote for player of the year(which is why Ginola ended up winning that year)

    Much of it is driven by marketing.
  37. Jan 11, 2019

    mitchmouse Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,139
    hart is certainly one of the poorest keepers I've seen not to mention an embarrassment with that ridiculous singing of the National Anthem
  38. Jan 11, 2019

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    34,471
    Location:
    Scotland
    Not really. There was a brief period during 09-10 when people were starting to label him the third best player in the world behind Messi and Ronaldo but it was only for a brief period - for the majority of that period Xavi and Iniesta were widely (and rightfully) regarded as being the third/fourth best in the world.
  39. Jan 11, 2019

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    34,471
    Location:
    Scotland
    Are you trolling?:lol:

    He's one of a handful of players who've consistently been able to score 20+ in the PL era, he's already done it four times in a row and is on course to make it five. If anything I'd say it took people too long to appreciate just how good he is.
  40. Jan 11, 2019

    Dike_Manc New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Definitely Eden Hazard. Good player, no doubt about it but his real talents lie in drawing fouls and making them look legitimate. If that is what constitutes a great player, then I'm wrong.