Why are English top clubs so underwhelming with squad management?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by VorZakone, Aug 12, 2017 at 14:46.

  1. Aug 12, 2017 at 14:46
    #1

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    I wouldn't say they are bad, but rather underwhelming or negligent. Liverpool has gaping holes in defense but they haven't signed anyone yet and it already cost them points. Arsenal still needs an extra CM when you look at how mediocre Elneny is and Cazorla still being out. United needs 1 extra goalscorer from the wings to help Lukaku. City is still thin in CM with Toure ageing and Gundogan out. Chelsea also clearly needs at least 2 signings for depth.
  2. Aug 12, 2017 at 15:06
    #2

    a_devil_inside Big footed hermaphrodite

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    Could say the same about any team really.
    English clubs pay more than those abroad, average players are going for ridiculous inflated prices, plus the lack of quality for obtainable players you might be better off keeping what you have.
    Then you have some bosses like Mike Ashley who are tighter than a nun's chuff and won't give enough funds for transfers.
  3. Aug 12, 2017 at 15:08
    #3

    BluesJr Full Member

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    Newcastle are free to spend what they make, but with the inflated fees that doesn't buy you the quality you need.
  4. Aug 12, 2017 at 15:16
    #4

    Ramshock The spacegoats did it

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    Defending in football is a dying art really and has been for a long time. This doesnt help
  5. Aug 12, 2017 at 15:19
    #5

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Because the standard of league means that the flaws are exposed more.

    Barcelona have just signed Paulinho for 35 million. He'd stand out as a dud over here. Over there he will be a fine player.

    Similar with Liverpool. There is precious few attainable centre backs who they can afford and would come who would improve their defence.
  6. Aug 12, 2017 at 15:49
    #6

    El cagrejo Full Member

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    Probably something to do with leaving the coach in charge of transfers, leading to patchy disjointed squads when they're frequently changing the coach.
  7. Aug 12, 2017 at 15:51
    #7

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    And the PL hasn't figured this out yet?
  8. Aug 12, 2017 at 15:53
    #8

    endless_wheelies feeling dizzy

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    Premier League clubs wait for the hot-property flavour of the month players that cost £40m+ , and therefore have to choose selectively from a limited pool.
  9. Aug 12, 2017 at 16:00
    #9

    El cagrejo Full Member

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    Evidently not.
  10. Aug 12, 2017 at 16:01
    #10

    Infordin Full Member

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    No he won't. He will get horribly exposed in La Liga.
  11. Aug 12, 2017 at 17:26
    #11

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    Not to sure, but they really are dire. I mean, we put out a side that was more expensive than the Madrid side the other day and still didn't look like we belonged on the same pitch as them. Just poor work in the transfer market, overspending on not so great players while not solving issues a club has. On top of that having poor succession plans in the squad.
  12. Aug 12, 2017 at 17:27
    #12

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    Oh here we go, not waiting long to try get your La Liga digs in.
  13. Aug 12, 2017 at 17:28
    #13

    Dante Shares his caf joinday with Badunk

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    Too many foreign managers.
  14. Aug 12, 2017 at 17:28
    #14

    Bepi Full Member

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    WUM mode on/ because the PL is sold and lives its hype as being rugby in disguise, not as chess football /WUM mode off
  15. Aug 12, 2017 at 18:25
    #15

    Revan Full Member

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    A lot of reasons:

    - The English 'talent' is absolutely awful, and building a starting team from 8 different nationalities is hardly going to end well.
    - Coaches in charge of transfers, and then coaches leave after a year or two, so no long term strategy.
    - Teams having money means that the transfers are extremely difficult between teams in the league.
    - The league being physically demanding, makes a lot of really great players not shining in the league.
  16. Aug 12, 2017 at 19:59
    #16

    SCP Full Member

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    Sorry mate, I will leave here something said by Luis Campos in a recent thread, who worked at Real Madrid under Mourinho, later at Monaco and now at Lille.

    Yahoo Sport: 

    You’ve had offers of work from Premier League clubs yet not taken any yet. Do you see yourself working for an English club in the future?"

    Luis Campos:

    "It may happen, but I think most English clubs do not know how to recruit for an issue that I almost think is cultural as almost everyone makes the same mistake. English clubs really, really like top attacking players, yet to a large extent make them play alongside medium-quality defences. And that, in my opinion, explains their relative lack of success in European competitions despite them spending exorbitant sums in recent years."

    Successfully building a good team project always involves the ability of players to relate and ‘match’ to each other. In the Premier League there is a big difference between great talents, and the medium quality of support for the same offensive talent. Most teams lack great defenders, and defensive midfielders.
    So I do not know if they would understand me culturally. The great forwards who are already in the Premier League would be even better if they had the support of great full backs, for example. And how many great full backs are there in England? Right now, maybe just Tottenham’s."

    Now take your own conclusions, not saying he is right or wrong but i feel he knows more than you and me about this subject.

    Only to add this interview was before City signed Kyle Walker, Mendy and Danilo.
  17. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:07
    #17

    do.ob Full Member

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    Imho it's mostly because a lot of clubs do not have (strong and competent) DoFs and a certain lack of youth development that's both down to coaches being in charge of squad planning and apparently weak academies.
  18. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:13
    #18

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    That is a bingo.
  19. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:21
    #19

    LoneStar Full Member

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    It helps Madrid and Barca that most of the talent pool comes from Spain and South America. Two regions where they are insanely popular. Players there dream of playing for them, and the fact that they already have world class players helps attract more such players. Every man and his dog knows that United (and PL clubs in general) are loaded and demand exorbitant prices for players.

    There are not a lot of world class English players out there. So any good talent is hyped up and crazy prices are quoted. Madrid, Barca and Bayern have dominance in their own markets. But we don't. Also the constant chopping and changing managers, who have very different ideas about football doesn't help.
  20. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:22
    #20

    Suedesi Full Member

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    Just why was he bought?

    I'd maybbbbbbe understand being brought to placate Neymar a month ago, but now what's the point?
  21. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:32
    #21

    Infordin Full Member

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    Our president is a Real Madrid fan. I'm sure of it.

    To think we could have had Seri for the same amount...
  22. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:33
    #22

    Theafonis In love with @Eboue

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    Now I'm starting to wonder what scouts and these other management people do

    Also English teams are tactically limited, far too much focus on running
  23. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:35
    #23

    Theafonis In love with @Eboue

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    How would this explain Europe league teams easily dominating English opposition
  24. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:35
    #24

    Suedesi Full Member

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    feck knows. Our head-scout rejected Isco at Malaga because his head was too big.
  25. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:40
    #25

    LoneStar Full Member

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    I was replying to someone else's post. Not answering to the OP.
  26. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:44
    #26

    ThomasEmil Invisible Herrera Watcher

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    Not sure I agree with him. He'd love it at WBA
  27. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:51
    #27

    RoyH1 Full Member

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    I don't think it's an exclusively English thing to be honest.
  28. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:55
    #28

    SCP Full Member

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    Like I said, it is a opinion of someone who is competent at what he does, tbf I don't think he says there aren't good professionals, maybe the cultural thing part, but some of his statements make sense looking from the outside.

    You mean working with Pullis instead Bielsa or Jardim? :lol:
  29. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:57
    #29

    ThomasEmil Invisible Herrera Watcher

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    If he linked up with Pulis, he wouldn't have to worry about the defence :D
  30. Aug 12, 2017 at 21:12
    #30

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    I do not see how it could be labelled a cultural problem. Look at the managers at the top Premier League sides over the past few seasons: Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp, Pellegrini, van Gaal, Conte, Wenger, Mancini, Pochettino.

    Also, look at City as an example. The money has been spent on defenders, it's just been spent badly (so far, hopefully this summer changes that!). So I wouldn't say it is a cultural problem, I'd say it's a personnel problem. Simply put, the quality of defenders in the Premier League has declined. How many Premier League defenders have proven their class in Europe, compared to the likes of Vidic, Terry, Carvalho and Ferdinand when English teams fared better in the Champions League?
  31. Aug 12, 2017 at 21:41
    #31

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    Cause Barca make dumb signings like this all the time.
  32. Aug 12, 2017 at 22:04
    #32

    giorno Full Member

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    Because there just isn't that much truly elite talent in world football right now, and real madrid, barcelona, bayern munich and to a lesser extent PSG, Dortmund, Atletico and Juventus managed to assemble most of it and have regularly beaten english sides to it over the last 7-8 years, which was in no small part due to most of said elite talent being either spanish, german, french, or south american

    There's also an issue of the biggest english clubs allowing managers to be in charge of recruitment with no good external input to help.

    Liverpool just don't have as much money as those clubs, are not an attractive enough destination for top end talent(wages, competition) and appear to have put baseball people in charge of transfers

    Arsenal, two words: Arsene Wenger

    United, it's the combination of Fergie not investing into the team in the final years, then hiring Moyes, then hiring Van Gaal and everytime allowing the manager to be in charge of transfers with no external input from a competent football guy who could look at the long-term picture

    City: a combination of "bad" initial recruiting(not actually bad, just not good enough. This has a lot to do with them starting out with the british model and allowing Mancini to be in charge), followed by the inability to go after the best due to them already playing for Madrid/Barca/Bayern, which combined with their desperate need for validation at the highest level lead them straight into a series of absurd decisions. They're trying to rectify that now, and Gabriel and Sane were huge coups

    Chelsea: did well initially with Mourinho, though also suffered from Mou being a defensive guy, albeit a defensive genius in fairness to him, in a landscape that's shifting more and more towards attacking players. The fact that Jose Mourinho spent three years at Chelsea and his first choice CB pairing was cavewomen shagger John Terry and the hopelessly average Gary Cahill says it all, really. Mou wanted better defensive players, only there just weren't great, ready made defensive players around he could sign, other than Matic. Filipe Luis wanting out of London within a month of his transfer was a huge loss for them, btw

    Roman closing the purse and them having won the CL resulted in them taking the opposite road to city: no risky, big outlays of money on unproven quality

    Spurs have the same problem as liverpool, but they did a better job in previous years, made a great move in hiring Pochettino and then were lucky enough to have Walker, Rose and above all Kane coming up from the academy. Then they took a cheap gamble on Alli and it instantly paid off beyond even their wildest dreams. In other words, they did a bunch of smart things, a bunch of not so smart things, and then got lucky
  33. Aug 12, 2017 at 22:09
    #33

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    The rise of these 4 teams (Juventus was irrelevant for a while in the late 2000s) has really hurt English football it seems.
  34. Aug 12, 2017 at 22:12
    #34

    Home&Away Full Member

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    You look at the scores and performances today - not a single league comes to matching its intensity.

    Just by the chances of averages; cards, injuries, fights everything is more likely to happen here.
  35. Aug 12, 2017 at 23:12
    #35

    SCP Full Member

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    When he means cultural probably more related to the specific culture of British football, even if the Premier League is global.
    If the money has not been spent wisely maybe there is the culture of expecting individualitys to solve the colective problems. Rather easy to say the defenders are bad when in theory the best teams are the ones who defend as a whole, not expecting individual players to defend imo.
    So do you really believe the problem English teams have when they play in the Champions League is just the individual quality of the players? So what are they doing in training sessions?
  36. Aug 12, 2017 at 23:43
    #36

    BobbyManc Full Member

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    Yes I see what he's saying with regards to the culture but I do not think that is a key issue. English teams were dominant in the CL for a period with the same culture. Teams like City, United and Spurs have all flopped in recent years even with managers who put a lot of emphasis on defensive solidity (Mancini, van Gaal, Pochettino).

    No, I do not believe English teams have struggled recently only due to personnel, but that has been the biggest factor. Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern have all had teams that are clearly superior to any English side in recent years. Then there are the likes of PSG, Atletico Madrid and Juventus who are very strong sides too. The quality of English sides has dipped. Leicester were able to win the league, that speaks volumes. People always want to over analyse stuff like this, when sometimes the answer is relatively simple.
  37. Aug 13, 2017 at 00:01
    #37

    SCP Full Member

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    I think it is a mix between what he says and your sentence "The quality of English sides has dipped." 1 does not exclude the other.
  38. Aug 13, 2017 at 00:03
    #38

    cyberman Full Member

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    We simply can't overload on generational attackers to cover for our flaws.