Why are the Glazers/Woody running the club so badly?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Physiocrat, May 8, 2019.

  1. May 8, 2019
    #1

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    I think whatever the correct solution, it is generally agreed that we are being run terribly as a club. The question is why?

    Is it that they're just incompetent? Following an incredibly successful period they have tried but haven't sufficiently re-ordered the club to run without SAF at the helm.

    Some seem to have suggested the Glazer's only care about profits but how is the current running of the club genuinely profit maximising? Is it the rumoured prioritising of the commercial value of a player in transfers over footballing ability in some cases? (IIRC this was one of the reasons Woody wouldn't spend enough to buy Alderwiereld) If so this may indicate a short-term over long term profit maximising strategy.

    Also has much changed since Malcolm Glazer died with respect to organisation?

    Obviously much of this will be speculation but it would be interested to hear what everyone thinks.
  2. May 8, 2019
    #2

    Andy_Cole Full Member

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    I think incompetence. The board is flooded with Glazers rather than football men.

    Woodward not letting go of his power is really making us suffer too.
  3. May 8, 2019
    #3

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    Do you know what proportion of the board are Glazers?
  4. May 8, 2019
    #4

    Eleven-Eighteen Full Member

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    Boards don't run companies. Executives do. But yes, the Board picks its CEO. And that's the extent to which Glazers are to blame. Woodward needs to take 80% of the blame
  5. May 8, 2019
    #5

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    They just don’t understand football and yet they’re heavily involved with the football operation of the club via that Woodward appointment. When you consider how difficult understanding and excelling in the sporting environment is even for those well versed in it (I mean look how silly certain opinions on redcafe look even by the so called well rated posters) - imagine said people being in charge of a football club and making bad decision one after another before it exponentially grows into a shitfest of epic proportions. At the moment we’ve got the equivalent of a Aldi version of Haram in charge of football operations at United and as you can see it is horrific to watch.
  6. May 8, 2019
    #6

    Rory 7 Full Member

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    The Glazer family bought the most successful club in England that was run from top to bottom by the most successful manager in English league history. They were venture capitalists with no real knowledge or history or interest in ‘soccer’.

    Since the takeover they’ve set about turning United into a cash cow, maximising revenues and (no matter what anyone says) minimising their investment. Investment in playing staff has only followed the natural growth in revenues from TV, sponsorship and other commercial sources.

    Real investment in the football club stopped to any significant degree in 2005. All we are seeing now is the chickens coming home to roost. The natural end result of treating one of the worlds greatest sporting institutions as an ATM for its owners.
  7. May 8, 2019
    #7

    Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly

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    This is what happens when you employ ex bankers, they fecked their own industry now their incompetence is spreading to others, all that type care about is money, nowt else.
  8. May 8, 2019
    #8

    Revaulx Full Member

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    Copied from another thread:
  9. May 8, 2019
    #9

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    It's only bad when you're losing. When your team isn't doing well everything is to blame, the first that got the stick is the manager, 4 managers after and you're still shit the blame is on ed and the board. I think it's theuraphetic to have the spacegoat ready, it's never our fault or the players fault or the manager fault, it's the big toxic jose fault, it's ed fault, it's the glazer's fault, imagine if we have a better owner, better CEO, better DOF.

    Our problem took time and patience to fix, complaining that your manager isn't right every 1 year or 6 mths and hitting the reset button is why we're in this mess in the first place.
  10. May 8, 2019
    #10

    scoi New Member

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    The Glazers and Woodward aren't idiots or incompetent, the exact opposite I would imagine. They lack passion for the club and see success in the balance sheet and not the league tsble

    Its likely a more profitable business model to target scraping into the champions league every year, than spending hundreds of millions more every year in transfer fees plus wages.

    Unfortunately in the long run this results in a loss of following and therefore revenue as sponsors look elsewhere, at which point the Glazers will look to sell the club.
  11. May 8, 2019
    #11

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    Just like Jose, Ed can't win.

    Extend contract = giving in
    Not Extending contract = letting good players leave to save penny
    Hiring top manager = Instant success
    Hiring Ex Legend = Cheap option yes men
    Buying youngster = United is being leeched by the glazer
    Buying Top star = We have no vision
    Employing a patience phylosophy builder = boring, we want action
    Employing a strict disciplinarian = Toxic, the players needs arms around their shoulder, how dare he
    Employing a United Legend = He's not experienced enough
    Finding sponsor = Ed is too money minded, he's not a football man
    Listening to a fooball man (SAF) = What the feck is he thinking hiring Moyes

    For me the sign of absurd finger pointing is when he does the opposite and still be blamed for both.
  12. May 8, 2019
    #12

    Rory 7 Full Member

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    You really are a huge fan of his aren’t you? Maybe you should go support Ed. Why not start a forum called Ed Cafe and quit trying to argue the unarguable with Man Utd fans.
  13. May 8, 2019
    #13

    Pearl of Wisdom New Member

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    Non of us can know this, from the outside looking in, it seems ludicrous from a fans and common sense perspective. But the Glaziers are business men and profit maximisation is the name of the game. (Irrespective of football, can any industry compete with carbon fuel billionaires if they invest in a different industry? I think it would be incredibly difficult)

    Look at this green graph of the stock price movement from 2012 - 2019
    https://www.historicalstockprice.com/Man Utd-historical-stock-prices/
    Its clear to see that the undulation is quite severe which gives a great opportunity for healthy profits if you can time the buying and selling right, such as buy low and sell when they peak.
    There could be many reasons why the club is run like it is, football might just be their business model where losing can also generate good margins from a stock buy-back perspective.
  14. May 8, 2019
    #14

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    Yeah, i'll probably stop. You all need a witch to burn at the end of the day
  15. May 8, 2019
    #15

    Rory 7 Full Member

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    Here you go. Sign up to edcafe.net here.
  16. May 8, 2019
    #16

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018 Staff

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    This is it, nothing more needs to be said. The Glazer scions (most notably Avram and Joel) aren't very good sports decision-makers and for whatever reasons can't seem to appoint people who are very good at making sporting decisions on their behalf, and you only need to look at the win-loss record of their NFL franchise over the last decade to crystallize that opinion.

    [​IMG]

    http://mcubed.net/nfl/tb/yryr.shtml

    That franchise was historically bad but had some success Malcom, only to be plagued with the same problems as current United (Avram/Joel and co. were incredibly fortunate that golden goose Fergie masked their flaws for so long): appointment of poor General Managers that lead the institution into disarray, hire-fire-hire-fire Russian Roulette approach towards the Head Coach with little consistency in terms of decision-making or having a long-term plan, people not taking responsibility for their organisational actions or decisions and overall lack of transparency or accountability, parting with a good amount of money in the market but not getting great value for their money (and players' value diminishing at the team so it ends up being high-sell low double whammy), signing tons of players with poor attitude that undermine the coach — which has a ruinous effect on the dressing room. Yes, there's often a great deal of luck involved with success, but they've been so poor for so long that it's not down to just abject luck or coincidence...and a similarly worrying pattern is emerging at United, unfortunately.

    Contrast that with Henry/FSG with Liverpool, to cite a somewhat parallel example — who have led the Red Sox to 4 World Series titles since the 2002 takeover, and always try to find innovative methods for improvement/optimization (watch Moneyball where Henry makes an appearance towards the end)...and are now doing very well with Liverpool, obviously. They're definitely lucky in some respects (like the stars aligning and Klopp miraculously falling in their lap) and don't always succeed, but a decent proportion of the success is definitely derived from their competence and strategy and vision for the organization, and can't be chalked up to sheer randomness.
  17. May 8, 2019
    #17

    fallengt Full Member

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    They're business men not sport men. Check Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the other handegg team that Glazers own.
    TBC is in the same spot as United. Won Super Bowl in 2003, no long term strategy whatsoever since 2008.
  18. May 8, 2019
    #18

    Andy_Cole Full Member

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    BOARD OF DIRECTORS
    • Avram Glazer – Executive Co-Chairman and Director

    • Joel Glazer – Executive Co-Chairman and Director

    • Edward Woodward – Executive Vice Chairman and Director

    • Richard Arnold – Group Managing Director and Director

    • Cliff Baty – Chief Financial Officer

    • Kevin Glazer – Director

    • Bryan Glazer – Director

    • Darcie Glazer Kassewitz – Director

    • Edward Glazer – Director

    • Robert Leitão – Independent Director

    • Man Utd Sawhney – Independent Director

    • John Hooks – Independent Director



      Taken from https://ir.manutd.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.aspx

      I’m aware Avram has passed so aware this is outdated.
  19. May 8, 2019
    #19

    MonkeysMagic New Member

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    No one can claim that the Glazers are good businessmen let alone football men! Any organisation that has wasted money to the extent they have would be declared bankrupt but it is only football where you can have steady stream of income in the form of TV rights and gate receipts from loyal fans. Their repeated poor decision making not just on footballing issues but also transfer dealings, which is a purely business transaction, shows how far removed they are from demonstrating business acumen.

    Unfortunately our current malaise will last until they leave, which isn't going to happen anytime soon unless someone pays their exorbitant valuation or the team has a drastic downturn, and I mean very drastic, in the next few years.
  20. May 8, 2019
    #20

    Treble Full Member

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    Normally, the best things come with drawbacks and trade-offs.

    United are the best business machine in club football but it comes at a significant price: the quality of football. The Glazers and Woody are turning United into a soulless giant money machine with a football team of mercenaries. Football has become secondary to making money. The number of fans in Asia - more important than the number of trophies. Fergie's genius managed to keep balance between business and football but the decline started already in his last years.
  21. May 8, 2019
    #21

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    Because they have hired the wrong people to make Footballing decisions. They should just be the people writing the checks.
  22. May 8, 2019
    #22

    Boxing Clever New Member

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    People moaning about businessmen running their business like a business. Quelle suprise! Of course they want to make money and turn you into a cash cow, that's literally the point of business.

    I see and hear all the moaning yet aside from the managerial choices and perhaps tbe lack of DoF, I don't see what is happening that makes you guys supposedly run so badly. Money has been spent in copious amounts, albeit terribly. You are whining because you are not winning trophies. Whatever, it's semi-understandable, you are football fans that have been spoiled and therefore are spoiled, although that really should have worn off by now. But the Glazers don't care about that, and truthfully why the hell should they? Very, very few owners care specifically about winning trophies, and even amongst those that do care, like City's owners, it's because they have a brand that needs growing which in turn will increase their revenue stream long-term, which is what they actually care about.

    The United brand doesn't need growing, it's near enough maxed out and any gains would be minimal compared to how much would have to be spent to achieve those gains. So seriously, keeping in mind we aren't dealing with monopoly money here, why should they care about more than finishing in the top four?
  23. May 8, 2019
    #23

    Kapardin New Member

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    That's precisely the point. What they are doing now will eventually make us fall behind Wolves, Leicester, Watford and Everton, let alone get Top 4. Their scatterbrained management of our club isn't even good enough to get Top 4 consistently.
  24. May 8, 2019
    #24

    Physiocrat Full Member

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  25. May 8, 2019
    #25

    rpitroda Full Member

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    1. We haven’t finished in the top four.
    2. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand continued failure in your biggest marketing tool will eventually impact the brand and commercial revenue. It isn’t today you feel it. I won’t change who I support. But plenty of young kids and new football fans who would have supported United no longer will because they don’t care about the brand or the history. They care about entertaining football, likeable players, and fun. That’s not United. And so in 20 years time when United might not be so shit, for that generation it will be too late since they’ve already picked another club. Not saying this applies to everyone in all cases but a savvy businessmen thinks more long term than “my brand is still doing fine now thanks bye”.
  26. May 8, 2019
    #26

    Revaulx Full Member

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    Lots of straw men here.

    Just one of them: nobody blames Ed for Moyes. That was clearly on Gill, as was the entire post SAF "transition" clusterfeck. Gill sowed all the seeds for the current mess, though that doesn't let Ed off the hook in the slightest; he's had six years to set things right.
  27. May 8, 2019
    #27

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    This is most depressing thing I've read re-United for ages. This truly does seem to imply dark times ahead.

    Thanks for that. Lots and lots of Glazers there.
  28. May 8, 2019
    #28

    reelworld Full Member

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    All that is fine in a vacuum, but in Ed's case, most of all his moves are for fixing his own mistakes because he appears doesn't have one.
    He doesn't have a plan because he put his trust in the manager to make the plan for him. His manager choices is like he just want to have the biggest names but not actually seeing whether they fit United or not.
    He's acting like Ferguson is still the manager, without having Ferguson as the manager.
    Also I think all the players that Woodward got was bought with the managers' blessing, as this guy doesn't have a clue about football
  29. May 8, 2019
    #29

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    They really don’t care as long as they make money from us.

    As for Ed. I can’t believe a single United supporter can think he’s done/doing a good job. Look at where we were, look at where we are now, and look at where our rivals are now. All on him. And of course the blood sucking leeches who own us
  30. May 8, 2019
    #30

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    Yes. He got those appointment wrong. But without a hindsight he imho has chose the best option according to the situation at the time.
  31. May 8, 2019
    #31

    Rory 7 Full Member

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    As chief exec he’s responsible for culture at the club. The culture has been all wrong since 2013; it’s all about media management, star signings and noodle sponsors. It’s stopped being about Football. That’s where Ed and Glazers have failed.
  32. May 8, 2019
    #32

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018 Staff

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    To be fair, even though the owners are incompetent, the fortunate appointment of a good manager (not just coach because we don't have the structure to support him, but someone who can actually run the club and lead it in the right direction) followed by a few good signings to shape the nucleus of the team can make a world of difference.

    e.g. Levy was roundly lambasted by a lot of Tottenham supporters for some of the decisions he made, but the appointment of Pochettino (who was reportedly not his first choice) proved to be a masterstroke, and now Daniel can do no wrong according to some. I like this video too because the resounding winner entered a very poor period while the loser entered the brightest phase of the post-modern era in subsequent years...



    Things can change very quickly in football (and sports in general), so we shouldn't lose hope, even with poobrains in the ownership position. :)
  33. May 8, 2019
    #33

    sparx99 Full Member

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    I think it’s clear that we don’t consider sporting success as the primary objective.

    I really do think there should be laws against profiteering of football clubs. They exist as community institutions and play off that attachment.

    If Nike for example treated their ‘customers’ with disdain the way our owners treat us then you’d all buy Adidas. Trouble is fans are much more loyal so can be repeatedly milked.
  34. May 8, 2019
    #34

    SirAF Ageist

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    Bingo.
  35. May 8, 2019
    #35

    steakpie New Member

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    Unpopular opinion:
    The majority of our demise was caused by managers and their bad signings. Glazers/Woody provided PLENTY of transfer funds.
  36. May 8, 2019
    #36

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    Mostly agree.
  37. May 8, 2019
    #37

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    So we fire our chief exec if he cant deliver trophies in 5 years?

    This sort of thinking would raze the club to the ground. Before long managers would lool for short term fix because they're not given patience by the fans and for all the support your manager bullshit they're 6months away from becoming the villain. Lvg wasnt given patience. Jose finished 2nd and the fans hounded him out. Ole is tasked with a clearout and rebuilt and 6mths he's already lost the fans.

    We want a young manager, a moder manager, we want a rebuild, we want structure we want youth but we dont want to wait, we want it now.

    Show us the money glazer, fork out 2 billion. Fire ed. Get monchi, get poch, and if they fail blame the board for not spending 3 billion. Glazer out. Ed out. Leeches. Parasite.
  38. May 8, 2019
    #38

    Lebowski Full Member

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    Malcolm Glazer died, Avram is his son and is not only still very much alive and kicking but is by most reports involved in signing off the biggest club decisions. For example the sacking of Mourinho is reported to have followed a Skype meeting between Woodward and Avram where presumably Woodward was seeking board approval for the sacking.

    In terms of the Glazer ownership of United I have made my feelings perfectly clear for years. Simplification and soundbyte it may be, but the fact that CFG have put £1b into Manchester city at the same the Glazers have taken £1b out says it all really. They also hired three football business experts from Barcelona, sorted their scouting, recruitment and training facilities out and set out with the goal of creating a structure to dominate the sport for years to come at the same time that the Glazers stood still.

    We're paying the price for a lack of investment, lack of vision and the lack of a backroom structure for success. Their takeover and management of United has been absolutely disastrous for the club and a few years of unrelated success under Ferguson shouldn't blind any United fans to this.
  39. May 8, 2019
    #39

    Von Mistelroum Full Member

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    Incompetence.
  40. May 8, 2019
    #40

    Dr. Loveboat New Member

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    The solution: Someone - Buy the domain manutdpetition.com (it's available) Build a website and launch a petition for getting rid of Woodward and/or Glazers. Use the same website to motivate all fans to unfollow all social media and delete their manudt user-profiles on all sites. Find a decent graphic designer and a scriptwriter or someone with a minimum amount of ability to communicate. Do 5-6 size versions of a simple illustrated message that we all can push on social media, mail etc. but who is that someone?