Why are the Glazers/Woody running the club so badly?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Physiocrat, May 8, 2019.

  1. Jun 7, 2019

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    They have been let down by their own wisdom. A club which can generate revenue so big with performing so poorly on and off the field in terms of footballing business, imagine when it was actually doing the business right and not banking on the laurels of Their former manager being stuck in the past.

    There are lot more ceo's who could do a better job than Woodward is doing while excelling at both sides of business and football. Our growth potential is way more bigger and when you actually look at the bigger picture Woodward and glazers style of functioning is holding us back due to poor footballing business practices and structure we have employed.

    If you don't refresh and adapt to modern times you are always in danger of being lagged behind and that's exactly what has happened. 90's principles can not be applied in modern era and expected to deliver same amount of success on the pitch.
  2. Jun 7, 2019

    Grande Full Member

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    No wonder Man Utd Petit deleted his Redcafé account and Man Utd Chao supports Deportivo La Coruna.
  3. Jun 7, 2019

    MackRobinson Full Member

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    Domestic English fans are still responsible for as much (or more) revenue than all the global fans combined. Look at United's annual report.

    So what is this magical structure that is supposed to bring success? Besides an owner that pours unlimited funds (PSG/City) anything else is a best guess. I said this before but take a look a what Liverpool fans said about FSG before Klopp. Levy before Poch.

    Let's be honest. Fans do not have a clue about what goes on at board level and all this talk about structure always lacks detail or concrete examples.
  4. Jun 7, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

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    1. Not enough football minded members on the Board.
    2. More thought of Profit before football.
    3. Structure of club needs serious thought and investment.
    4. Top DOF needed to conduct and control transfers.
    5. More careful look at the kind of players brought in.

    The Glazers and Woodward are not football people. They are just bleeding us out of money.
  5. Jun 7, 2019

    EireRed_GS New Member

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    Not sure if anyone shared this yet, but yesterday MUST shared a good bit regarding the Glazers, Woodward and the general handling of the club:

    a little more info there on why Woodward was brought in in the first place, and the extent of how much of a parasite the Glazers are in all their business ventures

    https://www.facebook.com/MUST/posts/10162008989710717?__xts__[0]=68.ARAwfdlxuqwytXyKA9HnV9HU0TqVu668ieAbELp3ZNc9VhK36mASAD7vbq-z6cuZfoy5bi7K11g-HmCo7WjbMG_ke8crg_FhOuyiKcn60CUxukzQ-YVmcmQRrB8dtKBQHb-g7NPMvcU9i0GutgnW67UiT1eZ333Dj2KWEUWsHxinmUrbyEwn1D1xuMmCJJv5sJNC80Jybhx-aC7q7xhgBsylpzHnW6MJJPmJO1yC93KDYjUMyPLZi0yNEboAY8GIU6LpmujYtCqQckPvbTXGAZxiXUDUN3NlWrvMdOMFR06kCuMBRMih6zFCHrWHtRjXwD2_0Nkg54jNtRX1dg&__tn__=K-R
  6. Jun 7, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

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    Very well done mate,. More fans should read this.
  7. Jun 7, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

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    MUST - the independent Manchester United supporters' trust

    June 5 at 6:48 PM

    GLAZER MISCONCEPTIONS

    They have always put the money in and backed the manager.

    This is where people get really confused. The Glazers have not put a single penny of their own money into our club or into transfers... all the money for transfers has come from the club's own revenues and generated profits... The Glazers have not invested a single penny out of their own pockets into the team, the stadium or Carrington.

    In 2005 they took over our club having borrowed the money and via a leverage deal constructed by a banker from J P Morgan called Woodward who they later employed. Placed all of their debt instantly back onto the club. This became Manchester United's debt not a Glazer debt. Resulting in Manchester United being in debt for the first time since 1931.

    14 years on the debt remains at 496 million but they have since however drained over 1 billion out of our club and continue to do so. Today they will pay themselves all of the Glazer siblings including the daughter who has never set foot inside Old Trafford another annual dividend.

    If you have bought a match day programme since 2005 then you have probably already invested more of your own money into our club than the Glazers have.

    The Debt is not a problem, it is just like a mortgage.
    Some defend them and say the takeover deal and debt is like a mortgage.

    All I can say is then is that I would love to have a mortgage like the one the Glazers have got. I would have bought a mansion instead... I might try that tomorrow... I'll go into the HSBC, I'll borrow a million in a leverage deal so I don't have to invest a single penny for the property from my own pockets.. Via the leverage deal I will then instantly load all of the debt I've just borrowed instantly back onto the HSBC so it is then their debt and not mine. As a result the HSBC will then have to pay all of the mortgage repayments and interest payments for me out of their own revenues, while I live there Scot free without spending a single penny of my own...

    Some mortgage that. I can't wait to pocket the equity

    The Glazers are Great businessmen

    Really ???... In 2005 their deal to takeover United was doomed to failure. However someone called Ed Woodward was assigned by investment bank J.P. Morgan to provide that accounting agility, Woodward won the minds and the hearts of the Glazers with his work to resuscitate a failing deal at the 11th hour. Without Woodward the Glazer takeover deal would undoubtedly have failed.

    The Glazers' takeover deal was last-minute and desperate in terms of interest levels and the loans necessary to pull it off. One condition was that the new owners' shares in the club could have been repossessed had they failed to keep up repayments.

    Woodward's work in structuring the deal to pull the Glazers out of a hole was the foundation of the high esteem in which the Glazers hold him and the reason why they soon employed him to now be in charge of the daily running of Old Trafford.

    Today's figures show that despite another 12 months of astronomical debt interest payments being drained from our club the debt has actually risen again from 380 million in February 2015 to 487 million last year and to 496 million in the latest figures.. So after 14 years United are still nearly 500 million in debt and Tampa Bay are over 100 million in debt.

    Looking at the Glazers business interest in the US It centres on First Allied Corporation, the Glazer company which owns and rents out shopping malls across the US. First Allied have taken out mortgages on 63 of the 64 shopping centres that First Allied lists on its website.. 9 of these Shopping Malls have closed in which they still have mortgages secured against... forcing them to sell them off at half the price and making a huge loss...

    The insight those mortgages provide into First Allied's difficult financial position makes it clear that the Bucs and United which is a combined £600 million in debt as a result of the Glazers' takeover represent the family's principal businesses and sources of cash, now and in the future.

    Its clear that there is very little chance the family's other businesses will contribute to clearing United's debt, and raises the possibility that family members will need to continue drawing loans and consultancy fees from the club to continue to finance their lifestyles .

    Interestingly in 2014 Joel Glazer sold his exclusive Palm Beach home for $7.5 million. The Glazers bought the house in 2007 for $9.3 million when times were good, so they took a $1.8 million loss on the property. Further indication of their financial position. The Glazers have a presumed combined net wealth of just under 3 billion but built upon significant debt.

    What about at United, being great businessmen, what sort of money have they been able to recoup for the players successful in securing our last title success in 2013, most of that squad was very quickly moved on. So what sort of money could The Glazers and their bank boy Woodward recoup for a recent title winning squad

    Well not allowing for Giggs and Scholes who retired, most of that squad was moved on within one or two years. Sixteen title winning players from that squad.
    Lindergard, Rafael, Fabio, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, Evra, Anderson, Kagawa, Fletcher, Cleverley, Nani,. Welbeck, Van Persie, Rooney and Hernandez have all been moved on for a combined total of 61 million. You couldn't make it up. The crazy highlights being Rafael 2m, Evra 1.5m, Evans 8m, Nani 4m and Van Persie 4m.. We also bought Zaha for 15m and moved him on in no time at all for just 6m. Business suicide.

    But we have won things since the Glazer takeover.

    In the past we won trophies despite the Glazers not because of them...
    Following the Glazer takeover David Gill said that they would budget a net spend of 50 million a season.

    Sir Alex used to tow the line and say that there was no value in the market... despite players like Hazard, Aguero, Suarez and Coutinho and co arriving at our rivals for very reasonable fees....

    The Glazers had been at the helm for 4 seasons when Ronaldo was sold in 2009, that 80 million fee received brought the Glazer nett spend since 2005 down to zero... A large chunk of the fee was used to pay interest payments....

    14 years on however guess what United's average nett spend is since 2005... Have a lucky guess... yes that's right, our average nett spend per season is still 50 million as budgeted and stated by David Gill way back in 2005...

    If they gave us back the money they have taken from this club we could go out and buy every top player in the world.
  8. Jun 7, 2019

    Garethw scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW

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    And yet they still get people saying they are good owners. fecking parasites.
  9. Jun 7, 2019

    manutddjw Full Member

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    I think the issue is we're running the club as if Sir Alex were still here. We give the manager omnipotent power to do as he pleases. Unfortunately for us we haven't had anyone on the level of Sir Alex. I know people like to have a go at Ed Woodward, but the fact is he's been at this for over 7 years dealing with the biggest agents in football. Maybe he wasn't a football man to start out with, but after 7 years the man knows his stuff. Not to turn this into a praise Woodward because until he apologizes to Rio he'll always be a dick, but as a liaison for the Glazers hes done well to get them to open up the purse strings for every manager. People think he signs people for names etc. but think about it. He looks far better to the Glazers the less he spends. Yet since he took over we're some of the top spenders in world football.

    The Glazers are clueless and see this as a cash cow. But I do see Ed trying his best to get us back to the promised land in fairness to him.
  10. Jun 7, 2019

    EireRed_GS New Member

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    read that article last night and it sickened me to my stomach. They're just a cancer slowing eating at the club. and although we may have a few highlights along the way (a la Oles 3 month winning streak) but in the long run i can see things just getting gradually worse. I said before only thing they will feel they will need to action anything is when we drastically hit rock bottom and they notice the profits dropping
  11. Jun 7, 2019

    Yakuza_devils Full Member

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    :mad::mad:
  12. Jun 7, 2019

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

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    They need to go from the club, it's insane how easy a ride they get here.

    It should be a constant news story of protests, and empty seats until they're gone.
  13. Jun 7, 2019

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    Woodward is at fault for not recognising that there is a fundamental flaw in the structure of the football side of the club. He wasnt experienced enough to realise that the post Fergie transition would be as difficult as it has been, but once it didnt work with Moyes, and after the club had lost so much on field and off field experience, he should have been able to take a step back and realise some serious restructuring was going to be required rather than just hiring LVG, without any other changes, and assuming he could single handedly turn the club around.

    Then after firing LVG he just repeated the same mistake again with Jose.

    The Glazers themselves are at fault for not addressing it with Woodward. But then, I'm not sure how much interest they have in the clubs performance once the financial side of the club keeps performing.

    If you deteriorate as much as Utd have, over such a period, while going through 4 managers and still end up in the shape we find ourselves in today, I'm sorry, but a serious chunk of the buck has to stop with the man who has overseen it all.
  14. Jun 7, 2019

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    The apathy that surrounds the club is sickening.

    Maybe it would take a really shocking season for the supporters to wake up. Maybe.
  15. Jun 7, 2019

    blue blue Full Member

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    From their point of view they are running it really well. So much so it subsidises their other businesses.

    The club needs to change hands.
  16. Jun 7, 2019

    Yakuza_devils Full Member

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    It's depressing that Man City and Liverpool are so far ahead of us. Spurs is also consistently doing better than us with minimal spending. Chelsea and Arsenal are thereabout challenging for Top 4.

    And we are supposed to be the giant of English football, the Bayern and Juventus of England. We are also in the period where EPL revenues are the highest compared to other league in Europe. English clubs are expected to dominate in Europe. Instead we find ourselves finishing 6 in the league and becoming laughing stock in Europe for the last few years.

    These are clearly mismanagement at the highest level for one of the biggest if not the biggest club in the world.
  17. Jun 12, 2019 at 05:09

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    I've been supporting the club since the late 60's and I can't think of one period of time where you could say there were obvious signs that the club was planning ahead and had a structure in place to be continually successful, so i'm sure sure why the Glazers(who have no interest in the footballing side of things apparently, just the wonga), and Ed Woodward should be blamed for not doing so when none of their predecessors did.

    Just a thought, if there had been a 'structure' in place, there was no way SAF would have replaced Ron Atkinson(not like for like), and i'm sure one or two of you are glad that he did, I sure was....

    Get the Manager right and everything else falls into place, we struck gold with Sir Matt and SAF and we've got to hope the next Sir is just around the corner.
  18. Jun 12, 2019 at 05:53

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    Will we ever get it right when even the top managers can work out that the club structure will fail him to get the players he wants due to poor strategic vision of the club in transfer market where even a 200-250m kitty falls short without even having elite top most bracket of players coming in as we are in no position to challenge. Also the ambition of the club is lacking in terms of wanting to be the best in world football.

    The competition is relative, and the way this club works in strategic planning in the window lets the club behind all the rivals competing. All the fans can see it but ceo is too arrogant and delusional and doesn't want to admit it that he is failing on a massive level in terms of strategic and structural planning of the club in terms of football competitiveness while shifting the blame towards managers alone.
  19. Jun 12, 2019 at 07:42

    Champ Full Member

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    They probably think they're doing a great job, just announced that they sold all season tickets in record time.
  20. Jun 12, 2019 at 08:27

    Rendezvous with Ronaldo New Member

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    I'm curious - do fans actually care about any of this? Really? I mean the amount of moaning about where the money for transfers comes from when big transfers come in and titles are being won is pretty minimal.

    My hypothesis is that the moaning about the Glazers actually wanting to prioritise profit over unguaranteed trophies/growth (you're almost maxed out as a brand) is merely code for 'there's not enough big transfers, we'll never catch City/Liverpool!'
  21. Jun 13, 2019 at 02:00

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    More than 50% of all SAF transfers were not the player he initially wanted, he often had to go for 2nd/3rd/4th and even 5th choice, but he just got on with it.
  22. Jun 13, 2019 at 02:25

    Ali Dia Full Member

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    Super grim. There’s been some amazing players up for grabs and we’ve missed the boat on everyone expect for pogba.
  23. Jun 13, 2019 at 06:45

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    Well, SAF is not in charge any more.He was the face who Hid it all in the latter stages of his career post ronaldo sale and ageing superstars.

    This is an era where Titles are decided on 95-100 points and other teams playing equally brilliant attacking football and strong overall on the the pitch and depth as well.

    He was hiding it well, post his retirement its all been exposed and we as a club are stuck in a same old style of functioning which is not relevant anymore in modern era.
  24. Jun 13, 2019 at 07:26

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    City and Liverpool got the right Manager in(my original point)and gave them time to get their ideas across, and yeah it's working, but if they both left their positions tomorrow there is not a cat in hells chance that their clubs would carry on a their current level(95-100 points)with their new Manager(s) however established the structure was at the clubs. Saying that if Mourinho replaced one of them, and was given £250m to spend he'd make a good fist of it.
  25. Jun 13, 2019 at 08:08

    UnitedFan93 New Member

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    Yet again it's all words and no action from MUST.

    It's all well and good posting this on social media and on their website but really they need to get people on the ground outside Old Trafford handing out leaflets to fans and starting new protests. The fans need to be made aware of the true problems facing our club!

    Success for me next season is not what happens on the pitch. For me, success would be seeing a determined, long term effort from our fans in finally getting the scum out. MUST absolutely needs to do more!
  26. Jun 13, 2019 at 08:18

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    They could get the crowd to protest by sitting there in silence, oops they've already tried that. Green and Gold ....
  27. Jun 13, 2019 at 08:24

    UnitedFan93 New Member

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    Let's do nothing then!

    Green and Gold failed because we won the league in 2011 and in the fans eyes everything was back to being rosy again.

    You can't compare 2010/11 to where we are now. We are 5 years off winning the league. A new protest might well make the Glazers think it's time to cash in, afterall, 5 years of constant protests wouldn't look good for sponsors!
  28. Jun 14, 2019 at 10:45

    Adnan Full Member

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    £496m in debt but some people still can't see the downside to the Glazer ownership. oh and if you haven't yet noticed, we have been debt free since the 1930's until the Glazers took over.
  29. Jun 14, 2019 at 10:49

    Needham Full Member

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    Ah, that City documentary. That scene in which the owners' representative and transfer strategy men were on absolutely the same page about scouting the right players for their 2 world class players for every position within the manager's working philosophy...absolutely fecking unimaginable with the Glazers and Woodward, and both are equally out of their depth.
  30. Jun 14, 2019 at 10:52

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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  31. Jun 14, 2019 at 10:55

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    (Lilting voice). The body of the horse is the team, the players. The brain is the manager. On his back is the CEO. The board is the guy with a big truck who brings him to the race. Mwhep!
  32. Jun 14, 2019 at 10:59

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    Young Ed, the boy racer [pictured]. Was he more handsome in a basball hat, or bare headed? Welcome to Ed Cafe. But remember, no adult images or videos; mind your language; criti (ouch!)
  33. Jun 14, 2019 at 11:06

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    Not only is this worth repeating poster, but it should be pinned to the opening of RedCafe and any other fan forum you want to have taken seriously. I for one will repeat this at every opportunity in here. We have had enough of these See You Next Tuesday's.
  34. Jun 14, 2019 at 11:13

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    Excellent post. Makes sense (to me).
  35. Jun 14, 2019 at 11:18

    Physiocrat Full Member

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  36. Jun 14, 2019 at 11:18

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    I came to this post rolling my eyes, but it has been the best thread for quite a while in here. This is typical. Spot on commentary, gives me the feeling that maybe the fanbase is waking up to the harsh reality of post Ferguson wilderness.
  37. Jun 14, 2019 at 11:22

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    Support MUST. Spot on.
  38. Jun 14, 2019 at 11:23

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    Well said.
  39. Jun 14, 2019 at 11:25

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    Comedy gold.
  40. Jun 14, 2019 at 11:38

    George The Best Full Member

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    Personally I am less bothered about the financial structure of the club than I am about the football structure of the club. City and Liverpool have well respected DOF’s assisting the football management - we’ve got Woodward. Not having a DOF here is criminal.