Wilshere - where does the hype come from?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Twigginater, Dec 26, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    I'm not even saying he's bad. I'm saying there's currently no reason for the ridiculous hype, and I can't think of a standout game he's had.

    Liverpool vs Arsenal Player Ratings - Goal.com
    Sky Sports | Football News | Player Ratings | Liverpool v Arsenal - 15th August 2010

    Arsenal vs Blackpool Report - Goal.com
    Arsenal 6-0 Blackpool | Premier League match report | Football | The Observer

    Blackburn vs Arsenal Player Ratings - Goal.com

    Sunderland vs Arsenal Report - Goal.com
    Sunderland 1-1 Arsenal | Premier League match report | Football | The Observer
    Sunderland 1 Arsenal 1: match report - Telegraph

    Chelsea vs Arsenal Report - Goal.com
    Chelsea v Arsenal - as it happened | Rob Smyth | Football | guardian.co.uk

    My point is, from different sources as can be seen, he's often getting a 6ish rating in these games. He cost Arsenal a goal in his first game, and against Chelsea pundits mention

    " "For about the last 10 minutes or so he seems to have lost a little bit of positional discipline to me, just chasing the ball wherever it goes. He hasn't influenced the match as much as he has in the past, though to be fair he hasn't gone up against a midfield containing Essien, Mikel, and Ramires before. Give him a decent rating, rising to good due to his youth?"

    Is that all it is? He's looking like he fits in at this level due to his youth. Am I not missing his stand out performances, it's just that he fits into the midfield and because of his age that is impressive.

    Because whilst it is impressive, it's certainly not one of the best young players in the world form. I'm struggling to see what makes people think he is going to dominate Englands midfield for the next 15 years.
  2. Dec 27, 2010

    fishfingers15 Contributes to username and tagline changes

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,665
    Location:
    Nani Are you ok? Are you ok? Are you ok Nani?
    It seems a lot of you folks saw Wilshere a lot. I watched him about 4 or 5 times and he had very ordinary games. So I don't understand what other people see in him. But it's fair to say I can't judge him when I've hardly seen him play.
  3. Dec 27, 2010

    x42bn6 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    18,148
    Location:
    西田麻衣の谷間. Being a nerd, geek and virgin
    I don't think anyone expects him to be a world-beater at 18/19. The fact that he can hold his own in the Arsenal midfield is definitely a plus. In addition, it's not like anyone in the Arsenal midfield has form aside from Nasri.

    You have to watch how he plays - he's got the vision and maturity (on the field at least) of players several years older than him. But like any young player, he's got a long way to go.
  4. Dec 27, 2010

    Alex Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    41,963
    Location:
    ____
    I reckon he gets an assist or two today, Nasri with a brace
  5. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    Yes. This sums him up. Why then do people insist he's going to be an incredible player, up with the worlds best?
  6. Dec 27, 2010

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    41,338
    Nah, Plech said it best - you only need to take one look at Wilshire to know he's a player. So much talent and the attitude and confidence to match it. Stick him in the team at 18 and he'll still take the responsibility and be one of the central players in the game, wherever he plays.

    He's shown his excellent vision numerous times this season, he's clearly very polished technically - excellent dribbler, good strike, very good passer - he's very versatile and he's already progressing very quickly. I didn't think he'd be disciplined enough to play in a two so early in his career, never mind as one of the two holding players, but he's settled in well and working on his weak points (which shows he's got a good head on him, seems a nice lad too):
    “It helps that I can work on defensive things as well as my attacking game. This year I’ve become, if not a holding player as such because I still like to get forward, more aware of the defensive aspect.

    “At the beginning of the season the boss told me he sees me playing in that position but the defensive side, my heading from goal-kicks and my tackling for example, needed to be worked on. And I think it’s improving all the time.

    That much talent + right attitude + right management = excellent player (usually)
  7. Dec 27, 2010

    x42bn6 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    18,148
    Location:
    西田麻衣の谷間. Being a nerd, geek and virgin
    Because you can see it in the way he plays.

    Not every player was playing a blinder at 18/19. In fact, very few were!
  8. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    No but on the other side of that coin, not every player who looks great at 18 or 19 can keep it up.
  9. Dec 27, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    65,338
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    You accept that Wilshere "looks great" then?
  10. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    No.

    My opinion of Wilshere this year is, he's looked at home in the Arsenal midfield. He hasn't done anything spectacular, but when you judge it in context, with his age and low maturity, it heightens how impressive it is.

    What I haven't seen is superb technique or amazing vision which many people hype. I've see him do a job, but I've not seen him produce anything out of the ordinary. I think he has the potential, to be amazing. But it could easily go not great for him.
  11. Dec 27, 2010

    Boss Melodramatic, attention seeking space-attacker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    23,912
    Location:
    I left you with enough memories to resurrect me wi
    you've basically just countered your op
  12. Dec 27, 2010

    Decotron Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    26,504
    Location:
    I am not a man........I am Cantona
    Much like when Rooney made his tv debut on MUTV all those years ago my first look at Wilshere in the youth cup I knew he was gona make it. Different type of player, not as dynamic as Rooney but the quality of his passing at 16 was outstanding, a rare sight at that age. How someone cant see this is beyond me.

    Wish he was ours....Now im off to wash my mouth out!
  13. Dec 27, 2010

    x42bn6 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    18,148
    Location:
    西田麻衣の谷間. Being a nerd, geek and virgin
    So you could argue Wilshere is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. :rolleyes:
  14. Dec 27, 2010

    Chrisjn Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    7,005
    I'm not saying he isn't a nice lad, but all players are media trained and even the most horrible cnuts like Bellamy and Barton can come accross O.K in interviews.

    Wasn't Wilshere in the papers for a bar fight/brawl or smacking someone with his mates recently?

  15. Dec 27, 2010

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    41,338
    This is true, commenting on players' personalities is a bit stupid given how little we see of them, and the situations we see them in, so forget what I said about him being a nice lad - I've no idea!

    Still, everything he's done on the pitch in terms of progression and growth is very promising so it does suggest he's going to make good use of his talent, even if there are a few bumps on the way (like Rooney).
  16. Dec 27, 2010

    Chrisjn Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    7,005
    Yeh, I agree, going to be a top, top talent. Can't be to long until he starts a game or too for England.
  17. Dec 27, 2010

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    40,262
    Location:
    india
    This thread is just bizarre. He's obviously an amazing talent. I'd love it if we had him, he's going to be some player.

    I'm not sure what this thread's purpose is. His technique, awareness and skill is top notch for someone so young.
  18. Dec 27, 2010

    Longlivekeano Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,248
    Location:
    Singapore
    Joe Cole was definitely a boy wonder whom Fergie tried to snatch away from Hammers academy many times. Legend has it that he once scored a goal in youth football by juggling the ball without touching the ground all the way from his own half into the opponents net. Played for Hammers at 16 years of age
  19. Dec 27, 2010

    Jiggs'Hamstring Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    right up next to Sky Valley
    Sorry to labour the point mate, but looks like Wenger's starting to agree with me on this one
  20. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    No what I'm saying is, it's wrong that he's hyped as such a talent, when there's no reason to suggest he'll definitely make it.
  21. Dec 27, 2010

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    51,762
    Location:
    Where Albert Stubbins scored a diving header
    Are you watching this game? He's been terrific against a midfield of Essien, Mikel and an admittedly off the pace Lampard. And he's only about twelve.

    Give it up...
  22. Dec 27, 2010

    amolbhatia100 Barbiturates ain't got nothin' on me

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    40,262
    Location:
    india
    There's no reason to suggest any player will definitely make it. His chances are better than most.
  23. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    Only just got back.
  24. Dec 27, 2010

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    51,762
    Location:
    Where Albert Stubbins scored a diving header
    Well the news is, he's basically made it.
  25. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    Yes. But after a series of no stand out performances, is it right to give him 2nd best under 21 in the world?
  26. Dec 27, 2010

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    41,338
    Winning 2nd best young player in Europe doesn't mean he's definitely going to make it, it means he's the second most impressive player in his age group - of whom none of which may make it.
  27. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    That was very nice play by the young lad.
  28. Dec 27, 2010

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    51,762
    Location:
    Where Albert Stubbins scored a diving header
    Yeah. He's fecking class.
  29. Dec 27, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    65,338
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    To paraphrase a line from Lock, Stock, can everyone PLEASE stop making threads slagging off good players at our title rivals?

    Thanks.
  30. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    Just wait to my "Fabregas is a shadow of his former self" thread.
  31. Dec 27, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    65,338
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    I'd start one asking what the feck has happened to Essien if I hadn't seen how badly the Nasri and Wilshere threads turned out!
  32. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    How badly they turned out? He hasn't exactly dominated the game has he?
  33. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    I've just gone back through the Arsenal v Chelsea thread.

    I'm going back and am on page 8. The only comment about Wilshere

    "Been such a strange game. Arsenal have dominated it, but they haven't had it in the areas they've wanted it. Wilshire and Fabregas have been invisible. What they've done well is to win the 50-50's."

    I mean this is what I mean. I've been on the BBC website when I got back, and he's only had one mention in the first 60 minutes.

    Yet I'm come here and told he's dominated the midfield. I'm told this thread has turned out horribly wrong.
  34. Dec 27, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    65,338
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    That's only the beginning.

    This has just as much potential for humiliation as the Nasri thread. Humiliation that, annoyingly, comes with benefits for Arsenal.
  35. Dec 27, 2010

    Makki QUITTER

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    10,794
    Location:
    freguson y u rest the ginger prawn hes most import
    Very impressed with his composure when in possession. I'd have shat it if I was up against Essien in central midfield.
  36. Dec 27, 2010

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    51,762
    Location:
    Where Albert Stubbins scored a diving header
    He didn't dominate midfield, Arsenal dominated midfield, and he fit in nicely to that unit and passed the ball really well.
  37. Dec 27, 2010

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    41,338
    [​IMG]

    Chalkboard in case you're interested.
  38. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    What is it I'm supposed to say now.

    "Most of them are sideways."

    or

    "8 unsuccessful passes!!!"
  39. Dec 27, 2010

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    41,338
    "I'm an idiot, Wilshire's obviously immensely talented."

    Or you know, just don't comment on him at all until you've watched him in a few more games rather than going off crappy ratings pages and the fecking matchday thread.
  40. Dec 27, 2010

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,321
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    :lol: You're looking for an argument here Brwned, and I'm not.

    I'm saying he's done nothing to justify his massive hype. After watching tonight, I'm still not sure he is. He has the tools, but the hype he's got is not in proportion to his ratings. I still adhere to this. I've never seen him play a match in which I come away thinking he's immensely talented. Players like Taraabt, Wilshere and Ballotelli are massively hyped, and they could make it or not. However to suggest he's going to dominate Englands midfield for years is a massive ask, and he's not shown enough to suggest this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page