Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Pogue Mahone, Sep 17, 2016.
Km covered per team after first 4 PL games.
Is there a problem? 3 wins before the City loss.
Pretty sure it's tactical: absorb pressure deeper, and zonally; not man to man. Though it seems to not be working.
Mourinho teams don't press. He likes his players to sit and react e.g. Essien.
The City match would suggest there's definitely a problem in that regard.
It'd be interesting to see the average distances covered by the players in our team to see if the lineup is contributing to that stat.
It's tactical. We defend by retreating and falling back into positions rather an pushing up and closing space. The number of sprints we make is also very low.
Maybe Mourinho's way of doing things is dinosaur stuff now. What worked so well for him back in the days, and especially from 2004-2010, isn't working as well anymore it seems.
I won't lie; I see the way Liverpool press and how hard they work and I wish we played with such drive and determination. When done right it's very effective. The way we play is far too static and slow. It's been that way for years now.
No surprise that us and Chelsea are near the bottom. Conte and Mourinho are very very similar in their play-styles.
Yeah but there's a difference between that and a shocking work rate though I'd say. For example, for City's first goal where Rooney was screaming at Mkhi to close down Kolarov, because he was just stood there giving him all the time in the world.
Not that I am a fan of the deep defending but the guy won a title at a canter just 2 seasons back. A bit silly to call them dinosaur tactics.
Liverpool and city burned out at the end of last season. I wonder if that's related?
It is a problem.
That doesn't suit Pogba, does it? He's better defending on the front foot. Herrera and probably Mkhitaryan too, they came from very high pressing teams.
That kind of pressing cannot be maintained for 90 mins, let alone the whole season. We will see how Pool and City manage the whole season with that kind of pressing and intensity.
Yeah, plenty on here with agendas against Moyes, LvG or Mourinho (including me in one case), but the lack of energy and slowness started with Fergie.
no...no problem....not if we win against Watford tomorrow......
Since when does running more equate to being more successful?!
Followed by 2 losses in a row.
Exactly. You could be running about because you can't get near the ball.
I'd be interested to know what our running rate was under LVG during the last season..does it compare?
More successfull and more entertaining if you do it correctly and effective, not like headless chickens
Aye, the fitness records of the teams should be factored into this.
Add Spurs to that list
It's something that sticks out when you're not winning games as it looks like a lack of effort rather then being a tactical approach
I'm not sure what relevance this is so early on in the season.
City will press and work harder with Pep at the helm. Klopp sides to this too not to mention they have played a few big clubs already so naturally will have worked harder.
Conte sets up similar to Mourinho and both teams have covered the same kind of distance. Had we started the City game a bit sharper those stats would look pretty different.
I don't see much that isn't obvious to talk about really.
It's a long season, hopefully we'll tire less from February onwards.
Also the difference comes down to, on average 93cm per minute per player.
Saving energy for next season.
Actually a bit curious to see Chelsea there. I remember Conte in his first press conference saying something along the lines of "The team that runs the most tends to win the game", or that may have been at the Euros. There was even a swathe of articles of how much running Chelsea were doing in pre-season training with Conte putting a lot of emphasis on sprinting, it being like how pre-seasons were in the 80s and 90s etc.
When you see them near the bottom basically suggests that the difference is between teams that press high up (City, Spurs, Liverpool at the top as expected) vs those that don't. Though a bit odd that Koeman's Everton are relatively low while Tony Pulis and West Brom are up there.
As an aside, I don't think our problem is the way we defend; we just have a bunch of players that don't like to make runs off the ball. If we want a more fluent playing style, what we really need are attacking players showing for passes when our midfielders are in possession, and other attackers then making to provide options for the player(s) to play passes in behind/lay the ball off. Even a team like Barcelona, with players with the dribbling abilities of Neymar, Messi, Iniesta and Suarez constantly make runs off the ball to pull teams apart, I feel like our players all want the ball to feet to then try and turn and make something happen.
I didn't watch West Brom this season, but Pulis tends to sit back and they're 6th in the list. I don't know if he changed something, but I think that distance depends on the tactics but also on the intensity of the execution. Supportive runs, coverings, movements off the ball in attack.
And I'd say our team has been apathetic in this start of the season in many regards. I expected a more passionate start to show our intentions but I'm not seeing it by the moment, both the attitude and the tactics have been too contemplative for my taste.
Good lord... Even in moyes era nobody scrutinized him this much.
Mourinho is outdated? The last time he won a trophy in england is just 2 years ago ffs
Work rate is an issue but doing what Liverpool do isn't the answer in my opinion. It looks good when works but when doesn't it's horrible. Not to mention it's not sustainable in a league where there is no winter break, the game is played at a much higher tempo and there are so many competitions to take part in.
However, the way we set up isn't the answer either. I like Koeman's approach, liked it when he's at Southampton and liking it at Everton. His team don't press until the other team cross the halfway line but once they do, his players are all over them giving very little space and time. In contrast what we do is, we drop further back! We don't pressurize the opponent's at all and let them all the time and space to play.
What's the point of singing Pogbas and Mkhis if we're going to sit back and pack our defense! We've a big squad, have a much, much better bench than last season when we'd the likes of McNair, Powell, Poole, Riley etc. on the bench. So let's be a bit more adventurous. We've the players now and they're definitely capable of playing in more an imposing system, just need the platform.
The season is just starting.
I'd actually be more worried about that as a City fan. They have quite an old and thin squad and will want to go very far in Europe too. That's a lot of running early on. Burnout maybe?
I thought we started well, I was very excited about the team up to the City loss. Two losses in a row is deflating, but it may just be a blip.
I would definitely like to see us press teams more, though. I have no idea why we were so deep against Feyenoord, it was completely unnecessary
I know mate, what do you mean?
You said Liverpool and City tiring out being related. We don't know if they will is what I'm saying.
Half of that is Fernandinho so it's fine. Biggest surprise is that City have had 60-70% possession in every game so the thinking that teams work harder off the ball is being put to the test there.
Yes a bit. Players do not look entirely fit.
Ah, no I meant last season they tired and was questioning whether it was due to them covering more ground throughout the season.
If anything I feel our problem isn't so much the amount of space we cover in every game but how fast we transition from defense to attack. We are still to slow there but I'm sure we will work on that, given that Mou's teams traditionally were all pretty good at this.
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