Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Cheesy, Apr 30, 2012.
Giggs has been left on way too late in games lately. It's becoming a "thing", and that's never good.
Given the players we have, the tactics were spot on. Crowd the middle, make city play wide. The midfield did that as well as they could, but they're not really the type of players to do it. We desperately need a more dynamic and athletic midfielder, someone who can contribute more defensively.
So, tactics, I think, were right, the performance of the players wasn't.
I had a massive problem with Park starting when I saw the teams.
He's not played for nigh on 2 months so to throw him on from the start in this one seemed a big ask. The guy was chasing shadows most of the game.
Added to which if you're going to set up for counter attacking football and you have Paul Scholes looking to ping balls out wide from the middle surely it would make more sense to start Valencia?
This sums it all up perfectly.
Well I actually said that before the game but suppose we may have lost with my idea as well, still doesn't stop me believing it was the right way forward. So what if he was a big game player in the past. Has he shown that this season? He didn't exactly look fresh to me considering he looked dead after the first 25 minutes. As I said if he was playing left wing I wouldn't have thought it was such a problem, but in probably the most important role in the outfield for us putting a player who has shown no form this season, shown signs that his greatest strength his energy levels have dropped, and has virtually played no football in 2 months or so was a mistake to me.
4-5-1 would've been okay, if we had the right people playing in it. Tonight what we had, was almost the same lineup of players that looked terrible in Europe, and against lesser opposition than City.
On the other hand, we used 4-4-2 against City in every meeting with them so far this season and despite the 6-1 scoreline, we were never dicked by City this bad.
I didn't say it was a good decision but I can see why he did it. Team just wasn't good enough, nothing to do with SAF or the tactics.
In a nutshell I think we needed the energy/dynamism in midfield and the experience at the back.
The lack of experience at the back showed for their goal and the lack of energy/dynamism showed in the overall performance.
It will be interesting what fergie says about this. He lost it during that game..totally lost it.
Scholes gives you better midfield control (not against that quality, though...), but less when it comes to creating something in the box. With ten minutes to go, that's what we needed. Giggs getting a good cross was more likely. I've no problem with that.
It's having three great wingers and still starting Giggs on the wing in a big game that I struggle to understand. What happened to Fergie believing in young players? Heck, he doesn't have to believe in young players, we're not talking kids, we're talking Valencia and Young. He gives experience a little too much respect.
Fair enough, I don't think it was a good decision, as, as I've said he's shown this season he doesn't do that role well, so tactically I thought we got it wrong.
Valencia, Carrick, Scholes, Nani.
I don't understand why he never went with that front 5. I can understand Park being a workhorse in big games, but lets be honest, he's terrible on the ball and is only good for pressuring our opponents ...and he hasn't even started a game in yonks. He ran around like a headless chicken tonight.
I genuinly can't remember Fergie getting it so wrong in 1 game before
Agreed, that's the way I would've gone. It's not even hindsight as well: I was saying it in the thread about how we should approach this game last week.
The tactics and starting eleven were completely wrong. Even if we had won the match, it was still the wrong selection by Fergie.
Even worse, the selection was indicative of cowardice. Fergie was so frightened of City that he dropped the in form Welbeck who has already combined so well with Rooney away to City in the FA Cup.
Yet again, Fergie was wrong.
Another gaf by the gaffer. That's three big games Fergie has choked. The other two being in the CL and Europa.
4-5-1 is fine, but Rooney is not a lone gunman. He was do starved of service I think he lost a stone. He should have been in the middle instead of Park and, call me crazy, we needed Berbatov. Someone who can hold up the play and slow us down. With Rooney it's speed of light or nothing.
And I don't blame Park at all. He hasn't started since January! Wake up Fergie!
SAF nailed it in his interview, it was actually a very poor match, they weren't hurting us until they scored. Obviously with us being United you expect more offensively but people like Nani and Rooney just didn't perform.
We are top reds and we shall never ever criticize the boss or his tactics.
Wrong selection of players.
Seriously, why Park in such a crucial game? Hardly played this season and no form.
Why did Valencia not play? Why did Giggs stay on till the end?
Yeah exactly. I think Rooney would have done a better job on Toure than Park to be honest, Toure was just far too physical for Park and just shrugged him off. If Rooney was dropping deep with Welbeck ahead then he would be occupying the same position as Park did and close down Toure and Barry in the way Park was supposed to.
There was zero threat all night. You say Welbeck could have offered a threat in behind, which I agree with, but more importantly Rooney would offer a threat in the hole between midfield and City's defence. Tonight the only player for us in that position was Park and he doesn't have the quality to play a through ball to the striker in the same way Rooney could have for Welbeck. Likewise with Nani on the right, Rooney would be capable of pinging balls through to him. Instead tonight the attack was just isolated in the extreme. There were no through balls for Rooney to latch onto and have a one on one, but that's exactly what his passing could have set up for Welbeck.
No shots on target is an absolute disgrace when we are supposed to be challenging for the title.
You can understand playing 3 in the middle...I wanted that and I think it's required against City with our midfielders. I'd have put Giggs in there...Nani on the left, Valencia (One of our best players) on the right, Rafael on the right.
When we brought on Welbeck we still didn't really threaten, as I keep saying whilst SAF made some questionable decisions I think the blame lies at the feet of the players, no one really performed.
He lost it because he knows he and the players have blown it.
Tactics all wrong as they were in our defeats in Europe.
We gave City the initiative.
If our midfield is crap then why hasn't fergie done something about it. he's happy to let Berba rot on the sides.
This is worse than Devon Loch. 8 points. 8 fucking points gone in 4 games.
I am not sure if it was the wrong tactics. City didn't create many scoring chances and for the most part United defended well.
What let us down is what has let us down all season, poor defending on corners and set plays. Kompany was unmarked and scored from a free header. Take away that one moment of poor marking and it could have ended 0-0.
The mentality is just wrong.
Guardiola needs to be recruited as as assistant to Fergie. He would never allow players as technically inept as Park to continue to persist at the club. Players as complacent as Evra would not continue to start every game. Talented young players like Fábio would be given the respect and opportunities they deserve, instead of publicly announcing a decision to loan the player before the season has ended. Talented young players in good form like Welbeck would not be dropped in the most crucial game of the season due to cowardice.
Rant over. Fergie has been at fault too many times this season. He needs someone to revitalize him and offer him new opinions. Phelan offers nothing. He is scared of Fergie, and Fergie is scared to drop his favourite players in place of the more deserving players when it matters most.
Wrong first XI and that's it. City weren't impressive at all, but they still beat us. If we played our standard first XI, we could have won this game. Arsenal totally outplayed city few weeks ago, sunderland gave them tough game, there is no reason why Manchester United with strongest XI couldn't do it.
Park isn't tactically inept though, he's been shit this season but he's not tactically inept.
There is such a lack of pace in our CM we were always going to be looking at our wingers to get forward. Valencia should have started on the right with Nani on the left. Fucking hell, this is Manchester United, we should be going down with all guns blazing, not a fucking whimper.
Yep agree totally. And Welbeck because of his style would have pushed City's defenders back opening up space for Rooney to work with, and having two proper threats from out wide would have forced Silva and Nasri to track back. By setting up the way we did we invited pressure on ourselves at a time when we're not the best in goal, have issues at fallback, are missing our best defender and our best pressing midfielder in Fletch, not to mention making it far harder for ourselves to mount a successful counter as we had only two genuinely fast players on the attack.
Because he's put his eggs in the Cleverley and Anderson and Fletcher basket. And maybe in the future of Pogba and Morrison. We took a risk, we paid the price.
We can't go to City with 4-4-2 with the midfielder players we've got. With three bodies we were just hanging on there.
What were the two starting XI's in the FA Cup game? Seems like their lineup was very similar. Ours should have been more similar.
Yeah they didn't, but they weren't helped by having someone right in the middle of the pitch who could offer nothing for them.
We had 40 mins without Park on the pitch and still created nowt. Think the occasion got to us in the 2nd half.
We need to stop playing players based on reputation, you look at the start of the season and there was not a sign of Giggs or Park and yet here we are business end of the season and rather than put faith in the players that have got us where we are Giggs and Park straight back in the starting XI, those two coupled with Scholes & Carrick just could handle the legs of Toure, Barry and the likes.
I have no problems going to City and playing 5 in midfield but do it with the likes of Cleverley in there surely to god!!
Going forward the best thing for United could well be for Giggs and Scholes to retire for good (not that I've got anything against the latter's performance tonight) because Fergie just takes the easy option every season and reverts back to them (did it last season against Barca and now tonight against City)
The tactics were a bit too negative, but a good idea I guess. We were too naive at home against them, so it was important to stay composed and keep the midfield tight. I have no problem with those tactics (even though we can't defend really well).
My problem is that when we were behind 0-1, we had to attack them, but we didn't. Zero shots on target is just awful and sad, especially for a team challenging for the title.
Yeah by which point city had the lead and so had no need to leave gaps. The tone was set at the start of the game and as we've seen from united recently when they start slowly, or in such a way that they're looking to stifle the other team it affects us, particularly Rooney who once he looses his rag, as he clearly did after getting isolated for long periods, becomes ineffectual. I think if we'd have stuck him right in the action at the start you would have gotten the other Rooney or at least much closer to it
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