1. Hey Guest, there's a new Podcast: Football, Bloody Hell! Podcast Episode 9 - Afroman

Wrong Tactics

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Cheesy, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Apr 30, 2012
    #81

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,888
    As little as it's worth isn't Nani's shot which Hart spilled for a corner a shot on target? It definitely wasn't a cross.
  2. Apr 30, 2012
    #82

    vivaronaldo Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,105
    Location:
    Sydney Australia
    if we get a point with this formation , fergie is a genius , if we attacked them and lose , we should have played defensive etc etc etc where does it end , everyone is a genius after the fact

    for me , and this is my opinion valencia had to start in any formation , in form winger who would have asked questions of their defense with his pace.......park for me was just not fit enough to come back into a game this big
  3. Apr 30, 2012
    #83

    Godfather Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    13,284
    Location:
    Austria
    I'd agree with those.
    Generally though we really need to adress the midfield issue. We could have played another 3 players out of our squad there tonight and still be outplayed in the centre.
  4. Apr 30, 2012
    #84

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,888
    I don't think Wayne's been anywhere near as good as he could be this season, yes he's scoring goals but his overall play is a bit ehhhh. Also last year when SAF wanted Rooney to do a defensive job on Busquets he was poor, Park's better tactically but even so I agree Welbeck should have played instead of Park and Rooney deeper, wouldn't mind Cleverley in Park's role in the future.
  5. Apr 30, 2012
    #85

    johnmufc Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,523
    Even if we had won the game, it was the wrong team selection.

    Fergie has been wrong on numerous occasions this season. I am not afraid to say this.
  6. Apr 30, 2012
    #86

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,888
    :lol:

    Such a WUM.
  7. Apr 30, 2012
    #87

    Gazza Magic Carpet Pilot

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    28,852
    Location:
    Some place faaar away... yes, that'll do
    I was baffled by the inclusions of Park and Giggs. They're good players but surely it gave City a boost not seeing Valencia's name on the team sheet? We really wouldn't have sacrificed much defensive by including him.
  8. Apr 30, 2012
    #88

    Commadus Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,405
    If we play 4-5-1 then Rooney requires players like Valencia and Nani pushing fullbacks back and getting in crosses. We had Nani cutting inside and Park doing nothing of note in attack.

    Giggs has poor positional control. Carrick was knackered running his ass off covering for Giggs and Scholes.

    SAF gambled on Anderson - injured, Cleverly - injury prone, Fletcher - injured, Pogba - too young and injured, Morrison - who decided to leave.

    I dont see it changing anytime soon.
  9. Apr 30, 2012
    #89

    Drifter American

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    43,893
    Right tactics for a draw.Got outdone from a set piece.
  10. Apr 30, 2012
    #90

    Ash_G Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,819
    I agree Rooney hasn't been at his best but I think he'd have offered more. Going to the Barca game, again I think we made the mistake of Hernandez who was not suited to that game at all, and because of his inability to hold the ball up etc made it very tough for the likes of Rooney because they had no outball. Also a lack of Fletcher/Hargreaves instead of Giggs would have helped there. But today I thought Scholes did pretty well defensively, Carrick was superb and if they had had someone like a clev/ando/rooney who could have picked up the ball from them and played his way out/turned his man and then either surge forward with the ball or played a good ball out, as any of them could, then it would have helped us all round.

    For all of the experience of Giggs and Park etc sometimes I've think we've got a bit hung up on that. In some cases it's very useful but other times I think the enthusiasm on a young guy like Welbeck, looking for his first league can provide something extra, and that's why I think people really enjoy clev, welbeck, ando and even jones at the start of him time here, because they play with an enthusiasm some of the older players just don't have, and when applied properly I think that can be a big bonus.
  11. Apr 30, 2012
    #91

    RK Full Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    15,417
    Location:
    Attacking Midfield
    Did we do a Haka?

    No.

    Would we have won if we had?

    Yes.

    Simple as that really. Poor tactics
  12. Apr 30, 2012
    #92

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,888
    That's also the issue too, we have players who either have experience but lack that energy or we have players who lack experience but have energy, you need a balance. SAF's done a riveting job this year, Europe apart. When you factor in the injuries and everything. I think it's just such a sickener that we've blown an 8 point lead that people are ignoring the fact we're challenging for the title when really we shouldn't. I guess that's down to the expectations SAF has created though, the one criticism I do have of this squad is it's mental approach is a bit off, it's not United-esque but again I think it's down to the awkward squad composition.
  13. Apr 30, 2012
    #93

    Stookie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    4,371
    Location:
    Quit yo jibba jabba... you aint hurt!
    Not a single chance or shot on target, disgraceful really. The Berties deserved their win can't deny that.
  14. Apr 30, 2012
    #94

    sdb4884 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,513
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Just like the Arsenal game last season, completely negative and we got what we deserved.
  15. May 1, 2012
    #95

    manusteve Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,916
    "Park is...a big game player" is very much hindsight. He, when playing this season, has been woeful.

    His freshness is irrelevant if he cannot physically dominate the opposition nor be able to control the ball properly.

    While Smalling is culpable for the goal, I think we played a whole half and more with a player that was wholly ineffective...Park.
  16. May 1, 2012
    #96

    CheadleBeagle Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,070
    Location:
    Only in Canada. Pity!
    We should never have put out a team to play for a draw. We handed the initiative to City and they took it; they could have had more goals to be fair.
  17. May 1, 2012
    #97

    Liam147 On Probation

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,719
    Location:
    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    Right, my two cents for what it's worth.

    I maintain that Rafael shouldn't have started. Can't reward a performance as disastrous as Everton's and play him in this, where you need to keep your head and concentration. I'd have rather had Smalling at RB, but Evans' injury prevented that, oh well.

    I think I'd rather have had Valencia on the right and Nani on the left than Giggs. You'll get more pace and work rate, and strength out of Valencia than Giggs. If we really were set up to win (which I don't believe we were), I think Valencia would've started.

    Park was good when he was on, regardless of what people say. He wasn't there to do anything with the ball, he was there to stop the likes of Toure doing anything with the ball. His constant harrying in the first half was very good, just what I wanted to see.

    Carrick was brilliant, our best player, comfortably. He was the one player I was genuinely proud of tonight. Scholes was also good, I was impressed with him, but Carrick actually showed fight and desire. When he went in for the 50/50 with Toure and won it, it got me right back up for it. He's not that sort of player, but he got stuck in with their biggest and strongest player. He also did his usual role of reading the game and moving the ball about. He also had a great work rate about him. Fantastic from him.

    It just didn't happen for Rooney, too isolated. Nani didn't keep hold of the ball well enough. I still think he had to play after his Everton game, plus how he's done against Clichy in the past. I just think with Valencia instead of Giggs, Rooney could've had more service and we could've had the ball upfield quicker than with Giggs.

    Oh hindsight.
  18. May 1, 2012
    #98

    manusteve Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,916
    Generally agree with you but re Park, he was rubbish. And that is also regardless of what others say...
  19. May 1, 2012
    #99

    Gazza Magic Carpet Pilot

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    28,852
    Location:
    Some place faaar away... yes, that'll do
    I missed the first 10 mins, but I'm sure Phil Jones started atRB
  20. May 1, 2012

    Liam147 On Probation

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,719
    Location:
    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    Well then I get the impression that you expected productivity on the ball from him? Hardly a silly thing to want from a footballer, but not all players can do that. Look at the likes of De Jong, Busquets, Makelele etc. Not the best footballers, but they have a job to do, and they do it well. I bet you Fergie gave Park the instruction to get out there and get in their faces, making it difficult for them, pressing them. Why else would he play him? We have better footballers in the squad, all with a lower workrate, which tells me it was all about him putting the shift in tonight.

    Yeah I know, didn't quite word that properly. My point was that although Jones hardly set the world alight there, I'd rather he played than Rafael.
  21. May 1, 2012

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    23,821
    I still don't get why we've not yet used Valencia in the position that Park was meant to be taking up today. He's played more centrally for Ecuador, hasn't he? He's shown himself to be versatile enough at right back...why haven't we tried him in the centre yet to see if we can use his pace, strength and ball retention?

    To be honest though, he should've just started on the sodding wing, where he's been in cracking form for the second half of the season. I thought it was absolute madness to start Giggs and Park whilst dropping Valencia and Welbeck. We were never going to get a foothold on the game, and that's not something that's just said in hindsight. Giggs loses possession a ridiculous amount unfortunately, and Park doesn't get involved enough (nor is he strong enough) for us to keep the ball well enough.

    Still, it's not over, and this team's got a lot of room for improvement. Not many positives to take from today, but we'll be back.
  22. May 1, 2012

    manusteve Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,916
    It's interesting you highlight De Jong, Busquets and Makele, all of whom, other than their defensive qualities, I consider to be comfortable on the ball and good distributors.
    I wouldn't be able to label Park with the same qualities.
    Park ran around, yes, but if he was there to press with the intention of disrupting play, then his contribution to the team was negligible.
  23. May 1, 2012

    Liam147 On Probation

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,719
    Location:
    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, but they only had 52% possession, and their pass success was only 84%, so obviously their passing game wasn't quite up to scratch, which to me was in part down to Park's pressing.
  24. May 1, 2012

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    23,821
    Busquets is quality on the ball for someone of his role - we're screaming out for a player like him.
  25. May 1, 2012

    Pscholes18 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 1999
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    Fresno, CA

    This...take a bow Fergie.
  26. May 1, 2012

    Scrumpet There are no words

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Messages:
    21,375
    Location:
    Froggle Rock
    I thought beforehand that Park instead of Valencia was madness, but then Tony V did the sum root of feck all when he came on. I don't know, everyone was shite. Well not everyone but it's probably easier to pretend they were,
  27. May 1, 2012

    TheReligion Abusive

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    13,423
    We should have gone and played Welbeck and Rooney as we did in the Cup.

    Can see what Fergie was doing, and if we hadn't of conceded when we did we could be prasing him right now, but in hindsight if we were going there to win we should have just gone for the two up top and gone toe to toe.
  28. May 1, 2012

    Edmeiste Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    7,107
    Location:
    In a land far far away....playing Fifa
    Agreed. I was watching the Community Shield this past morning and even though it's a pre-season friendly, one thing I did notice is that Anderson running with the ball caused them problems. Our incisive passing and movement caused them trouble as well but his running was something that quickened our tempo. That's something we really needed today. Our tempo wasn't good enough either

    I know we all have our reservations about Anderson and he had a bad spell of form during this season, but I'm more so talking generally in terms of playing against these types of teams that flood the midfield.

    I dont think the game came down to tactics. We were just poor and to this day, I wont agree with Park's inclusion. I get why Fergie did it but the amount of times Park lost his footing or just looked as if he didn't have a clue what to do with the ball just killed me. His runs weren't any help either. Instead of getting into a neat pocket of space, he just would keep running as a Man City player tracked him.

    We really do need to address our midfield. It's amazing we've got this far but it looks like it's not far enough.
  29. May 1, 2012

    Art Art the artist

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,070
    Location:
    Is it Christmas ?
    United has this tradition of being nice to our veterans who have served the game in this case Park. So far it has served us really well in the likes of Scholes,VDS and Giggs. But Ji Sung park has been really bad this season for us. Why did SAF bring him on after never having played him in recent times for such an important game?

    My guess is that Fergie still won't sell Park or ask Giggs to hang his boots. He will go into next season with a 39 year old winger and a 30 something winger (park) and play them in CM together because of injuries. It is getting really idiotic as I feel we really need to make a heavy investment this summer. Rely on youth? What youth? You have this money grabbing cnut in the likes of Pogba who yet doesn't sign a deal. Who the feck does this cnut think he is? Gone are the days when players queued up to get a slither of chance to play for the club that is Manchester United. Sadly money plays a role in this too. Aah feck it I'm too pissed to even complete this post.. Why the feck does he play Park ffs.
  30. May 1, 2012

    Edmeiste Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    7,107
    Location:
    In a land far far away....playing Fifa
    This. Part of why I'm a bit unsure how we should go about fixing our squad issues at the moment. This awkward squad composition you speak of has been grating me for a while and I'm really not sure what to do. All I can say is we need to get the right player to help us with this. Thing is, I dont really have a clue as to who we should bring in.

    City still have to go to Newcastle but part of me is already looking towards next season and where we go from here. It would be fantastic to still win the league but we've got some things that have to be addressed this summer.
  31. May 1, 2012

    Relevated Moral Guide

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    20,061
    Location:
    18M1955/JU5 - May the eyes of cowards never sleep.
    We played for a draw and we could have had it if it wasn't for that corner.
  32. May 1, 2012

    Gazza Magic Carpet Pilot

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    28,852
    Location:
    Some place faaar away... yes, that'll do

    Ah, I see what you meant, and I think I agree.

    I do think Phil Jones has been clearly burnt out for a while and I didn't have much faith in a performance from him tonight (I know that sounds harsh). Then again, I couldn't hand on heart see a good RB performance coming from any of our options tonight. They're all off form.
  33. May 1, 2012

    Gazza Magic Carpet Pilot

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    28,852
    Location:
    Some place faaar away... yes, that'll do
    The lack of pace, particularly in midfield, that Rossi19 mentioned is to me a big reason why teams have been able to play through us so quickly/easily this season.

    I swear I kept seeing Carrick scampering back trying to follow Toure and Nasri et al, like a teacup versus a fire hydrant. He couldn't do it alone.
  34. May 1, 2012

    bosnian_red Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,222
    Location:
    Canada
    Tbh I was pleasantly surprised with carrick today, I know he's a great player but his strength and speed to go back and win the ball off of players like toure, tevez, aguero and silva surprised me. For a player who supposedly lacks bollocks he got stuck in today and won the ball back plenty of times, and wasn't shrugged off by toure like the rest of our team. One of the few players who can go to sleep thinking they played well today for us.
  35. May 1, 2012

    RedLars Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,742
    Let me ask you this: What if we had won 100-0?
  36. May 1, 2012

    Gazza Magic Carpet Pilot

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    28,852
    Location:
    Some place faaar away... yes, that'll do
    I agree completely, he gave everything
  37. May 1, 2012

    bosnian_red Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,222
    Location:
    Canada
    A shame the rest of the team didn't follow his example...
  38. May 1, 2012

    pocco loco

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    8,608
    Location:
    Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
    I'm just repeating myself here, but firstly we do not have the midfielders or strikers to fully excel in a 4-5-1. It's been obvious for years, yet still people insist on it. Secondly, Rooney can not lead the line on his own.
  39. May 1, 2012

    pete_8 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    Birmingham and Manchester
    City started nervously, but we didn't have the players to exploit them or should I say the nouse to spot it and go for the throat.Bit of both IMO. Although we were on top we created nothing.
    Take away Carrick and Rio the rest of em were pretty average.
    Welbeck was brilliant against Everton last week and did look sharp when coming on. SAF got it wrong, gave them to much respect.
    We were 2nd best sadly .
    So lets go and beat Swansea 8-0 and Sunderland 4-0 shit there goes the alarm clock
  40. May 1, 2012

    pete_8 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    Birmingham and Manchester
    Totally agree, we lack creativity in midfield have done for years, at least having the second striker and with Welbeck in good form we could have put them on the back foot at times. Especially in the first 15 minutes.
    That would also have given us the chance to adapt as Rooney plays deep anyway

Share This Page