1. We are delighted to have been nominated for Best Forum in The Football Blogging Awards. You can vote for us on their website here and via twitter here. You can read the caf thread here. Thanks to anyone who votes for us.
    Dismiss Notice

You're in charge against West Ham, what do you do tactically?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by worldinmotion66, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. Sep 24, 2018
    #1

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,461
    In light of Pogba's recent comments and another disappointing result, a lot of United fans have had a lot to say about how the club is being managed and how we are performing. It's likely that Mourinho won't change too much tactically, as that would necessitate the acceptance of blame on his part, but what would you do differently in our next Premier League game?

    I'm interested in formation, personnel and tactical instruction, and particularly what you want to see precisely rather than just "play attacking football, attack more". How do we do that with this squad exactly?
  2. Sep 24, 2018
    #2

    b20times New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    112
    Just play our game. West ham are not a very good team, and their manager will find himself out of his depth again pretty soon.
    We are a better team than west ham all over the pitch, they got a lucky point against a low key Chelsea yesterday let's be honest, if we start a high tempo they shouldn't be able to live with us.
  3. Sep 24, 2018
    #3

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    24,708
    Location:
    Egypt
    DDG
    Dalot - Smalling - Bailly - Shaw
    Matic
    Fred - Pogba
    Lingard
    Lukaku - Sanchez
    I know we're not going to play this way but I think that's the best we can do. Nothing miraculous it's just tweaking players positioning. Move Sanchez to the striker position alongside and enough of this number 10 RW shite, drop Lingard to his preferred number 10 while having 2 fullbacks bombing forward.

    We don't have any wingers or width so instead of shoehorning number 10s and strikers on width, we better play with a system that suits them. All players are in their preferred positions in this formation.
  4. Sep 24, 2018
    #4

    roseguy64 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    4,924
    Location:
    Jamaica
    The same thing we did against Spurs, Burnley and Watford
  5. Sep 24, 2018
    #5

    Kapardin Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    9,153
    Location:
    Chennai, India
    Alexis as striker. Martial left and Lingard on the right. Lukaku on the bench, let him play his way into form.

    And no amount of team selection is going to win the game unless the attackers are coached to attack properly. Something that can't be explained on this thread as we are not manager's who know how to. That's Jose's job.
  6. Sep 24, 2018
    #6

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    13,154
    Location:
    Player Performance Threads
    Leave a fancy breakfast outside Atom and Humber's kennel.
  7. Sep 24, 2018
    #7

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2000
    Messages:
    88,676
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    This but I’d drop Sanchez for martial because he’s got a great record if scoring against WH. 6 goals in 5 games against them so far. Also his pace is an added bonus with Shaw and Dalot bombing down the wings
  8. Sep 24, 2018
    #8

    ROFLUTION Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,345
    Location:
    Denmark
    De Gea
    Young-Smalling-Jones-Shaw
    Fred Matic Pogba
    Sanchez Lukaku Martial

    - West Ham will probably defend deep and go on the counter. Important to get a lot of delivery into Lukaku's head, therefore use Young.
    - Quick passings, and lot of crosses from the wing-backs.
    - Make Pogba play the ball sideways (Like Carrick / Scholes) to open up space
    - Agressiveness on the second-balls.
    - Ask Pogba and Fred to shoot from the distance
    - Slap Sanchez and tell him his dogs will be released from the dog-catcher if he scores.
  9. Sep 24, 2018
    #9

    WR10 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,012
    Location:
    Dream
    Same formation and 11 we have been playing but more urgency in Lukaku, martial and Lingard in droppin into holes making them selves available for a piercing carrick pass. Trap the ball, turn quickly and run at the opposition or play it off each other while our full backs bomb down in anticipation of a through ball. Either results in an attempt at goal or a clearance that gets picked up by Matic and recycled again or challenged and won by our center backs (lol) who also restart our attack with carrick style piercing passes to our forwards. Rinse and repeat all game. Wake up from the dream and realize we’ve been watching city and Liverpool..
  10. Sep 24, 2018
    #10

    klayton88 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    1,363
    Put Phil Jones on corner duty.
  11. Sep 24, 2018
    #11

    reddevil702 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    736
    DDG
    Dalot - Smalling - Bailly - Shaw
    Matic
    Fred - Herrera
    Pogba
    Sanchez - Martial
    Our attack has been dreadful, and Jose calling them out should pave the way for change.
  12. Sep 24, 2018
    #12

    b20times New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    112
    Play to our strengths.
    Martial wide hitting the channels.
    Lukaku the target man and Jesse feeding off him.
    I'd be tempted to stick mata in as he can unlock the door when teams sit deep which west ham undoubtedly will do.
  13. Sep 24, 2018
    #13

    Robbyb03 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    115
    Since I can’t post images yet...
    Modified 3-5-2 with Sanchez playing back slightly almost as a false nine.
    Romero
    Jones Smalling Bailly
    Darmian Fellaini Shaw
    Pogba Pereira
    Sanchez Martial

    I’d play some backup players as I want the overwhelming majority of my first team sheet players well rested for Valencia on October 2nd and Newcastle on the 6th as we need to win both of those games. Then, the schedule gets brutal, after the International Break, with @Chelsea, Juventus, Everton, @Bournemouth, @Juventus, @manchester City. I need my best players ready for that push and eventually, the one in December.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  14. Sep 24, 2018
    #14

    ash_86 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    4,192
    Score own goals in the next PL fixture. That's the only way United are winning that match.
  15. Sep 24, 2018
    #15

    FootyGirl88

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
    Messages:
    7,172
    Go back to basics - diamond 442 with our FBs giving us width.

    DDG
    Dalot - Smalling - Bailly - Shaw
    Matic
    Fred - Pogba
    Lingard
    Lukaku - Martial
  16. Sep 24, 2018
    #16

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,461

    FORMATION & PERSONNEL:​
    • We change to three at the back to accommodate an extra striker while maintaining our balanced three in midfield that allows Pogba the freedom to attack..
    • Valencia plays on the right to negate the threat of Anderson and the potential attacking full backs that West Ham possess. Dalot will play against Derby and I don't think he's quite ready yet, Young is an option should we be completely dominant and need a better attacking output.
    • Wingbacks both encouraged to bomb forward and hug the touchline.
    • Pereira comes in for Fellaini. While the latter has been in decent form, I prefer to develop Pereira as a holding midfielder and he has the ability to pass through the lines and find his midfield and attacking teammates. He also has the mobility and pace that Matic lacks, should he need to plug any holes on the counter. We also shouldn't need the extra height with an extra centre half on the field.
    • Sanchez drops in as a #10 to mark their deepest midfielder (Rice, most likely) when not in possession. This should give us a numerical advantage in the middle which allows us to easier retain the ball once we win it.
    • Pogba and Fred have license to attack, and particularly run beyond the attackers. This allows Sanchez to drop in and be creative, and Pereira can pick the passes into the forwards. Pogba should drive forward in possession and do his thing.
    • Martial is preferred to Lukaku based on his performances against the hammers, his superior touch and link up, and his preference to drop deep and receive the ball to feet. He can play one-twos and also spin in behind to stretch their defence. Should be encouraged to stretch them and work the channels.
    • Sanchez has more of a free role when in possession. If it's not working for him, we can use Mata or Martial in that role and bring Lukaku in.
    TACTICAL INSTRUCTION:
    • We play a very high defensive line. While Arnautovic, Anderson and to a lesser extent, Yarmolenko, are quick, we bring in the pace of Bailly and Smalling plays as the covering sweeper to help Lindelof out. This really suits Smalling, as we saw under LVG
    • We press. Martial must press full back and allow the centre halves to have the ball. When it is moved forward, we press hard and in groups, and we keep a high line and compact shape to restrict the space. If they are forced long, we have De Gea sweeping, and we win any first and second balls.
    • We play out from the back and get the ball to Pereira when possible. Pogba and/or Fred can come deep to build attacks when necessary but we try to be direct and urgent on the transition once we win the ball in advanced areas.
    • We switch the play quickly to use our wingbacks and to create spaces.
    • We instruct our attacking players to turn and run at them when necessary, and any one-on-one situation out wide should see us be direct and take them on. Don't fear losing possession, especially in advanced areas.
    • We bring on Lukaku and/or Fellaini if we need to go more direct in search of a goal. Herrera can be used if we need more energy or tactical nous in game management to replace either Fred or Pereira. If we hold a lead and the game becomes more stretched, Lingard can come in to replace either Sanchez or Fred in the second half.
  17. Sep 24, 2018
    #17

    hn4manunited Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Messages:
    623
    Bring Jose in to do that he does! Shut the primadonna's up. Ban them from playing or being in the dressing room if they're not getting in line with what we're trying to achieve as a team. If they are not going to be 100% for our cause together, they think they're bigger than the rest and will likely be doing that repeatedly whether it's Jose or someone else. In addition to that, these so called players who supposedly created these doubts have really not been performing that greatly to begin with, hence, we're under this pressure.
  18. Sep 24, 2018
    #18

    GledTheRed Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    8,117
    Location:
    Twitter thread
    Drop Valencia and Sanchez!
  19. Sep 24, 2018
    #19

    RedCurry Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Messages:
    2,985
    I would give Lukaku and Lingard about 60 minutes and tell them in advance. Ask them to prove themselves in those 60 mins or they get dropped for next games in favor of Martial and Rashford. Let partnerships develop but at the same time no one at United besides Pogba and DDG is good enough to be automatically selected.
  20. Sep 24, 2018
    #20

    Chip Butty New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Rampton(F-Wing)
    Supports:
    That lot
    In my humble opinion......

    DDG

    DD CS EB LS


    F PP AP

    AM AS

    RL


    Firstly, if Rashford was fit, I'd replace Lukaku with him. The front 3 has to be dynamic and those positions are purely a guide, its all about the fluidity of how the front 3 operate together, whilst being supported by the midfield 3 and, where possible, the full backs bombing on. When without the ball, the front 3 again are key - AM, AS and RL are key to starting the hunt for ball retention and need to be on their toes as soon as the ball is lost.


    Also, WHU being shit will help, as well.
  21. Sep 24, 2018
    #21

    TheFlagStaysDown Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    1,110
    Location:
    Prague
    Supports:
    Shamrock rovers
    This is a good line up, possibly our strongest, strongest possible. I like:
    • leaving out Fellaini, for some good things he brings to the team he slows the game down and we should be able to build upour attacks in a fashion top team does, on the ground and incisive passing
    • Leaving out Lindelof, he's just out of his dept for some of his ability on the ball, not always shown, he's weak in the tackle, terrible in the air, slow, the best choice of CB
    • Fred had a great game so he should start and build on his confidence
    • Lingard has shown he's capable of great things and having three midfielders under him gives him sort of a free role to roam
    • Lukaku and Sanchez, both unfortunately have to start, however I'd swithc one of them for Martial but won't probably happen, anyways Sanchez is bad on the wing, the closer to goal, the better for him and the team, can practise his magic and if he loses the ball at least it's in the final third. Rom struggles alone, as much as he looks like a typical no9 he needs a partner
    • Dalot we will see how he does in a cup game, could bring a bit more in an attacking sense but let's see how exposed we are, he's not a dynamo as Valencia is, will need a lot of help from Fred
  22. Sep 24, 2018
    #22

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    1,637
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    Tell you one thing that always annoys me with us is the lack of supporting the man with the ball.

    We seem to pass to a player who is then isolated with no close support and end up loosing possesion. One thing that both City and Liverpool do very well is to play as a team and support the player thus giving him options.

    I don't know why we fail to do this but it is about thinking as a team and helping your fellow player.
  23. Sep 24, 2018
    #23

    Revaulx Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Location:
    Saddleworth
    Would love us to give this a go.

    I’d be inclined to keep Lindelöf where he is; he’s not great but he’s a known quantity by now, and there’s enough change elsewhere. Pereira for Matic at some stage would be worth a go as well.
  24. Sep 24, 2018
    #24

    abdo99 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    10,318
    Play 4-4-2 dimond/ 3-5-2.
    We need two strikers upfront because we don't have any top wingers. Let the width come from the fullbacks pushing forward.
    Play Periera in midfield and push Pogba forward.


    DDG
    Dalot Smalling Bailly Shaw
    Matic
    Periera Fred
    Pogba
    Sanchez Martial

    We attack with 5 players. Matic drops in between the centre backs to build the play and this gives license for the two wing backs to push forward.

    DDG
    Smalling Matic Bailly
    Dalot Periera Fred Shaw
    Pogba
    Sanchez Martial

    Would love to see this tried. All the players are in their best positions.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  25. Sep 24, 2018
    #25

    DannyCAFC Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,470
    Supports:
    Charlton Athletic
    I'd like to see United play a 3-5-2 similar to England at the WC.

    Dalot and Shaw as WB's might finally give United the kind of personnel they need to run this system successfully. Both get forward aggressively and carry some crossing/overlapping threat, they are both fairly comfortable on the ball and have the pace needed to recover if necessary.

    Matic shielding a back three gives Pogba full license to get forward and be the creative outlet, along with Fred alongside him. I think crucially this would take a bit of the pressure off Sanchez to create, he'd be better as a SS for me where he's getting on the ball during attacks and either finishing them or picking the final pass, rather than being the one trying to build them.
  26. Sep 24, 2018
    #26

    buckooo1978 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    12,169
    we didn't defend badly at the weekend - defensive mistakes are made but I wouldn't say they are a regular problem.

    our issues have largely been caused by a lack of intensity, lack of movement, lack of confidence in some, slow paced attacks, lack of attacking plan and, based on this I'd still play 4 at the back. Matic can drop in when we are defending and Pogba, Sanchez and Fred will need to do some serious running - I'd have Lukaku and Martial pressing hard also.

    after watching Valencia at the weekend Dalot has to be first choice and he and Shaw can provide good width with Martial/Lukaku's movement offering an option in wide areas also

    my team would be

    --------------------------------De Gea---------------------------------
    Dalot-------------Smalling-------------Lindelof-----------------Shaw
    --------------------------------Matic-----------------------------------
    --------------------Fred------------------Pogba-----------------------
    --------------------------------Sanchez-------------------------------
    -----------------------Lukaku-------------Martial---------------------
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  27. Sep 24, 2018
    #27

    friendlytramp More full of crap than a curry house toilet

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,525
    Location:
    J Stand
    ——————de gea
    ———Lindelöf——-Smalling
    Dalot————Fellaini————Shaw
    ———Fred—————-Pogba
    ——————Sanchez
    ———-Lukaku———Martial

    Attack attack attack
  28. Sep 25, 2018
    #28

    LingiBW New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
    Messages:
    306
    De Gea

    --Young(RB)---Smalling(RCB)--Lindelof(LCB)---Shaw(LB)

    ..........--Pereira(RCM)-------------Fellaini(LCM)--
    ............................--Pogba(ACM)--

    --Lingard(IF)--------------------------------Martial(IF)--
    ...........................--Sanchez (CF)--

    Team Instructions:
    • High Pressing - the top 6 players esp the forwards press relentlessly with the 3 midfield players looking to close channels that open up.
    • Width - the inside forward not actively engaged in the press stays as wide as possible for an outlet, positional discipline is key around the pitch.
    • Central Mid - both LCM and RCM hold position in the centre of the pitch with the LCM having additional responsibility to help the LCB and the RCM playing more like a deep playmaker with the job of providing the transition from defense through midfield. The 2 CM cover for the full backs when they bomb forward. The attacking central midfielder (ACM) links the midfield and attack by trying to pick quick passes (no holding onto the ball or running with it for long).
    • Attack - inside forwards stay as wide as possible only cutting in when in possession or making a run to receive a through-ball. The CF has license to drop slightly deeper to link with the ACM before laying it to the IFs.
    • Defence - full backs run forward when team is in possession to provide width as IFs cut in with the role of providing cutbacks. One of the CBs is ball playing and his job is to provide angled passes to the IF out wide.
    • Play pattern - short and medium passes only, no hoofing of the ball. Players are to let the ball come to them instead of negating their position chasing after the ball.
  29. Sep 25, 2018
    #29

    Grande Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,835
    Location:
    The Land of Do-What-You-Will
    This is a good idea.
  30. Sep 25, 2018
    #30

    minoo-utd Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,766
    Location:
    Egypt.
    Drop Valencia, Lingard, Lindelof, Sanchez.
  31. Sep 25, 2018
    #31

    ThemanGiggsy New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    60

    This. Might swap Andreas in for Fellaini and just go all out. De Gea can do De Gea things so we can risk some more attack.
  32. Sep 25, 2018
    #32

    Jojo <3 Mou Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2016
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    Pursuit of Happiness
    My Starting XI
    -------------------------De Gea
    Dalot------- Smalling---------- Lindelof--------Shaw
    ------- Fred-----------Matic----------Pogba
    -------Lingard----------Lukaku------------ Alexis


    Shape when Attacking

    ------------------------De Gea
    -----------Smalling------------ Lindelof
    -----------Fred-----------------Matic
    Dalot--------------Pogba---------------Shaw
    --------------------Lingard
    ------------Lukaku--------- Alexis

    Shape when Defending
    ------------------- De Gea
    Dalot------Smalling---------Lindelof------Shaw
    Lingard-------Fred----------- Matic------ Pogba
    ----------------------Alexis
    ----------------------Lukaku


    So, just minor adjustments. I think our game plan since Brighton has been looking a bit more attacking and shows a greater desire for the ball.

    The major issues are that our use of the ball is poor especially by our RB, Valencia...so I''d replace him. We might miss his defense but his attacking is soooo bad.

    Our DM , Fellaini whilst great in the air isn't the best on the ground so replace with Fred or Pereira. In theory, this should improve our ability to get the ball forwards by dribbling or being better passers.

    We need a greater goal threat so bring Alexis closer to the goal and to Lukaku; and more centrally to hopefully give him more time on the ball (and more cover if he loses it). Alexis would absolved of most defensive responsibility except pressing and tracking CBs with the ball.

    Pogba and Lingard would have a greater defensive task of covering for the RB and LB respectively as they push forward to create width.

    Of course this formation/plan like all others requires a team approach to attacking and defending. It requires making the right decisions and being focused on your task the entire game. It requires willingness to run and cover for team-mates. It requires humility, hunger and sacrifice.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a football genius, just an avid observer.
  33. Sep 25, 2018
    #33

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,388
    Location:
    Niagara Falls, Canada
    ------------------------De Gea-----------------------
    Dalot---------Smalling-------Lindeloff---------Shaw
    ------------------------Matic------------------------
    ----------Pogba------------------Fred--------------
    ------------------------Mata------------------------
    -------------Martial--------Lukaku----------------


    One thing I would like to see us do is a half field press. I don't like a full press. When you are in a full press you and you win the ball back in their area they have all their players back. I would rather concede possession and allow West Ham to come into our half. But once they are in our half, everybody works hard to win the ball back. This way, when we do win the ball back, there is a ton of space behind their defenders for us to counter attack. However, in order for this to work, we also need two strikers. One central and the other taking up a position on the wing. This can be alternated depending on which side of the field we are attacking from. If the ball is on the left side then Lukaku pushes over and Martial stays central. If the ball is on the right side, Lukaku stays central and Martial makes a run to the right. When they get the ball wide, their goal isn't to score. It's to go hard down the line and to try and beat their man on the outside with the intention of giving an assist to the central player. The way I see it now, we have way too much possession and our build up play is too slow. Forget having a left footer on the right and a right footer on the left. When we are set up like that, the players want to cut in too much to get onto their stronger foot and look for the shot. If you are tackled going inside the ball goes back up the field and chances are we lose possession. If you attack wide and get tackled, the ball either goes out for a throw or a corner and possession isn't conceded. However, with this formation we can also play triangles all over the park when we are in possession. Rashford and Lukaku can get more central and offer two targets in the box. Dalot and Shaw can provide the width with assistance from Fred and Pogba. In the #10, I prefer Mata. We could also play Sanchez or Lingard there, but in my mind Mata is the smartest player we have, and has an eye for a good defense splitting pass. Doubt we would ever see anything like this, but this is what I would do...
  34. Sep 25, 2018
    #34

    Fracture90 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Messages:
    8,582
    Location:
    Serbia
    Nice try Jose!
  35. Sep 25, 2018
    #35

    OldSchoolManc Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,108
    Hulk smash!

    Drop Valencia for pretty much anyone, play Sanchez in a front 2 with Lukaku and Martial on the left.
  36. Sep 25, 2018
    #36

    togg Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2001
    Messages:
    8,411
    Location:
    Shaken, and very stirred......
    Sort of tactically. Get Fergie in the dressing room five minutes before they go out....just for a pep talk.
  37. Sep 25, 2018
    #37

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    14,689
    We don't have to change much, just play with high intensity like we did against Spurs, Burnley. Most teams in league won't keep up with that.
  38. Sep 25, 2018
    #38

    caid Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    4,180
    Location:
    Dublin
    I'd bring Rashford or Martial in so we have serious pace up front, try and play on the counter. I honestly dont know what i'd do with the right side. I dont have much faith in anyone providing much of anything going forward so I'd probably pick Valencia as hes a good defender. I'm not sure it matters who goes in front, get them to stay wide, they're probably clogging up the middle and doing more harm than good always coming inside
    Are they likely to pick Carroll? Fellaini man marking as he hes been doing in recent games if he is, otherwise Matic or Hererra because they're better dm in most regards.
    The atmosphere at the club is kind of terrible recently so not sure tactics are the issu
  39. Sep 25, 2018
    #39

    Rednotdead Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,572
    Location:
    Tewkesbury
    Kick the shit out of them, especially Noble.
  40. Sep 25, 2018
    #40

    RikRuud Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,696
    Do what Pogba said. Also dominate them physically. We need to be agressive in this game to show our intent.