Youth development in PL

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by golden_blunder, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. Feb 27, 2018
    #1

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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  2. Feb 27, 2018
    #2

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    I wonder how long the trend of English players trying their luck in Germany continues.
  3. Feb 27, 2018
    #3

    Trizy Full Member

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    Why not move abroad? The best youths will most likely end up in a top 6 club academy. Unless those players either play for United in those top 6, they haven't a chance of getting game time once they turn 19-20 unless they clearly have world class potential.
  4. Feb 27, 2018
    #4

    Mb194dc Full Member

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    Interesting article. Chelsea are one of the worst with youth.

    There is a big problem generally in England with developing young British players. This England team is the worst I can remember. 1 point at the world cup and the Iceland game!

    A lot of it stems from the money. Firstly because any decent young player will get a big contract in their teens and this can destroy their motivation.

    Secondly the obsession with transfers restricts first team opportunities for local players.

    Thirdly, players like Wilshere, Barkley, Ince, Strurridge who have the chance to go abroad don't and would rather take the easy money.

    I think having a lot of teams with very few local players contributes to the poor atmosphere at games too. Supporters dont have a connection with the teams anymore. Harder to support mercenaries than locals who actually have a connection with the club, not just there pay packet!
  5. Feb 27, 2018
    #5

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    All the money in the EPL probably also means more spending, especially on established English players or foreigners which in turn means less patience with managers and instant results/success required.

    Basically clubs have enough money to not have to rely on their academy when they can just go out and sign a few experienced players - especially from "poorer" leagues - basically any other league.
  6. Feb 27, 2018
    #6

    Angry Virginian New Member

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    Just look at the PL table, super tight for top 4 race and the same from mid-table down to the relegation spots. Only a few teams can realistically afford to give chances to young & unproven players.
  7. Feb 27, 2018
    #7

    Crashoutcassius Full Member

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    If I could make one change to the prem it would be in introduce strict rules about academy players playing. Write it in such a way that is very hard to game, catchment areas etc so city can pay all the parents 5m under the table. God it would be so good for the game. We would get hammered in Europe for 15 years but personally don't care
  8. Feb 27, 2018
    #8

    FootyGirl88

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    I remember a similar article coming out when Oliver Burke who at the time was at Nottingham Forrest and was one of their best players moved to RB Leipzig.

    At the time he was saying that he choose to go to Germany for playing time because he knew that if he stayed in England and went to a big club he wouldn't get played etc. Funnily enough he spent most of the time on the bench in Germany he started just five league games for Leipzig last season, making 20 sub appearance. He's back in England at West Brom now, haven't seen much from him this season but thought his story was quite interesting. I think he moved too quickly tbh, with young players they have to be really smart about the timing of their moves as it could be bad for their development.
  9. Feb 27, 2018
    #9

    RedRom "Where's Lingard?"

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    Seeing as we are the best youth team in the world currently, (two world cups and a Toulon tournament victory), it is that next step up which seems to be the hardest.
    It is down to the first team managers to give them game time, which a lot of them are simply not doing.

    That is where the log jam is, and until that changes, then you will continue to see very talented young players stagnate unfortunately.
  10. Feb 27, 2018
    #10

    Mb194dc Full Member

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    Agree, just thinking about Wilshere as an example from the other thread. Went backwards hugely since 2011 Barca game. Wasted potential, the story of most English players these days.
  11. Feb 27, 2018
    #11

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    Wilshere is a terrible example of the problem though. He never struggled for opportunities or game time. His problem has always been his injuries and whether England or Germany he'd have the same problems. He's one of the few who have actually been given importance and lots of game time from a young age.
  12. Feb 27, 2018
    #12

    Blackwidow Full Member

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    Of Oliver Burke I just know that he did not have the tactical sense he needed for a first team spot at Leipzig. And the work rate. Especially the Leipzig attackers are asked to work a lot defensively and with pressing.

    The thing is - no matter where - you have to work for your chances. I think that this was a big topic in the article, too. Just a transfer in another league is not everything - they do not wait on you because you are a talent of a big EPL club. Another example for that was Januzaj... But - if you do and you got the talent - the chances are bigger for a breakthrough in Germany than they are in the EPL.
  13. Feb 28, 2018
    #13

    SCP Full Member

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    Some confusion. One thing is to move to Germany, another is having the chance to play on a consistent basis. If they have quality they will play ( Sancho, maybe Lookman) if not they will return (Burke, Oxford).

    Reality is with the amount of money there is in England, unless they are outstanding talents, they will not get a place in the first team with 18 or 19 years old.

    If foreign players older than them with more experience (Champions League or Europa League) struggle with this level, added with the recent influx of top foreign managers, who everyday are pressured by the media to:

    1. "Spend money, your rivals are spending, you don't show ambition"
    2. " You lost 2 matches in a row, do you have conditions to stay at your job?"
    3. "Why don't you play youth players from the Academy, why don't give them a chance?"
    Reality is, fans and media want English clubs to be the strongest in Europe, have the best managers in the World, at the same time players with 18 or 19 years to start at top 6 clubs, coming from under 23 football or something like that.

    The only solution is clubs bellow that level, the Evertons, Southamptons, Leicesters or others to invest less abroad, and look more inside, but overall with the output of quality from the generations of 97,98,99 and so on, they will have more chances to play.

    Of course not all players who won the under 20's WC or under 17's will make it at the top level. But that is true for England or other countries, main difference is England has massive influxes of money coming from all over the World.

    Final question is, the ones who say "Oh, the Bundesliga or Ligue 1 is a 1 horse race league, who cares if they have a strong NT", are you ready to accept if more chances are given to younger talents coming from the Academies, it will mean less foreign players will come, will the league remain at the same level?

    I doubt it, on the other hand you can say the restricted number of young English players who have the chance to make it, they play under the orientation of top managers in the world, they have to compete with a large number of foreign players, where the final result is those players will improve their skills and understanding of the game.

    Hard, really hard, is for Portuguese, Belgian, Dutch, Serbian, Croatian fans to see their best players, be it the natives or foreigners to leave the league and to see your team being spanked without mercy.

    Just ask how Porto fans felt when for the first time they saw their team being humilliated 5:0 at home, or how Ajax fans felt when they have to see their team being spanked by Real Madrid, Barcelona or totally impotent to compete with United in the Europa League.
  14. Feb 28, 2018
    #14

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    With the amount of money being spent on players in the PL currently now is really the best chance for the smaller teams to advantage on offering lucrative terms to younger players, name a first team place. It will be hard to get those top talents that are 16-18 and suddenly being offered big money to play in the reserves but the patience will run out so the market for 19-21 year old players should be good. You just need to know where to look and take the chance on them.
  15. Feb 28, 2018
    #15

    Swift Football Banned

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    The PL has been so competitive that the teams usually go for safer option - choosing experienced players rather than risking young players. So, ignoring youth development is like by-product of PL competitiveness. The PL clubs are richer than their equivalents in other leagues, and they simply go to other leagues and buy much more experienced players/foreign nationals.

    Grooming youth players is almost impossible in top 6 side. Because of fight for CL spots, and very tight margins, no team is willing to take risks playing youngsters, not even in league cups anymore. So, there is definitely a big problem for english youth.

    However, I do not think imposing additional rules regarding youth players is the way forward. Everybody likes to see a youth groomed into regular starting XI, but forcing it through rules will only be compromising in quality. I think over time, the youngsters will realize that its not in their benefits to go to PL club, and should rather move to Championship or abroad.
    As long as they get game time, I do not see any reason why it is a problem in them moving to any foreign league or Championship.
  16. Feb 28, 2018
    #16

    manutddjw Full Member

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    I just don’t think there’s anything that can be done. The money changed everything in the Premier League. That’s why it’s not an issue for Spain, France and Germany. At least 15 of 20 managers are walking on egg shells and don’t have the nerve to play youth players unless they are blatantly talented and can make an immediate impact. The other thing is everyone has a big budget and can afford experienced players from all but 10 or so clubs across Europe. Then you got the bigger clubs that hoard the best youth players and have massive squads. This is not the environment to develop youth players.

    I also think some players need to take the blame themselves. It happens often where they leave one big club and instead of going somewhere where they’re guaranteed playing time, they just go to another big club and face the same issue.
  17. Feb 28, 2018
    #17

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    There is relegation battles everywhere else as well.
  18. Feb 28, 2018
    #18

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Oxford went back to Germany and played 90 minutes in the last two games. Supposedly they want to sign him permanently too.
  19. Feb 28, 2018
    #19

    pascell Full Member

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    Skim read the article but it fails to mention what happened with Dale Jennings(?) Who moved to Bayern academy from Tranmere, it doesn't always work out.
  20. Feb 28, 2018
    #20

    Blackwidow Full Member

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    I do not think that it fails to mention it - in the interviews they mention what it takes to have success... Dale Jennings failed because he did not adapt, did not put in the necessary work and had injuries. I doubt that he speaks more than some German sentences, too. He did not fail because he did not get chances but because he apart from his talent does not live a professional life.

    I think that Danso is a good example for a great young professional - he put in a lot work, knew he had to learn a lot and tried to get an education, too. You cannot go to Germany and think that talent alone gives you all the chances. But if you are willing to adapt and work and learn you have more chances to get playtime in the first teams than you do if you stay in England - even at midtable club.

    Augsburg - where he plays - is a team with one of the smallest turnover and budget in Germany - only Freiburg have less. What this two clubs do every year is incredible. Freiburg with a team of mainly youngsters in which the best get sold every year - Augsburg with a combination of older players and talents.

    The clubs promoted a lot youth coaches to be coach of their professionals in the recent seasons - but a coach like Hecking who is coach in Gladbach right now is a great youngster coach, too. Gündogan can tell you that as well as de Bruyne or latest Christensen.
  21. Mar 1, 2018
    #21

    SCP Full Member

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    It looks he played last match vs Hannover as fullback, Vestergaard and Ginter were the centerbacks.

    Surprised West Ham doesn't want him for next season, if that's true.
  22. Mar 1, 2018
    #22

    Ali Dia Full Member

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    A club that was able to take the top 5-10 British prospects every year on loan and play them together would be a pretty good team wouldn’t it? They’d more than likely thrive.

    The stockpiling of youth players by the top clubs is a serious issue to be fair. So many players don’t get a proper chance to develop. If they were playing for smaller clubs down the divisions they’d surely be first teamers rather than in our U18/21s. McTominay, TFM, Andreas show that these lads can often do a very good job even at the top level if they are thrown in but the trust often just isn’t really there.
  23. Mar 1, 2018
    #23

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    There's too much money in the PL for youth to get the time and patience they need. More often than not, even the youth that get a chance in the PL get it as a result of injuries during the season than an actual preference over a new signing.