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He better not leave us in the summer! He has trophies to win.
Well it's unheard of that Zlatan leaves a club without winning the league at least once. Actually never happened in his senior career. So he better stick around at least one more season, unless Chelsea squanders everything the next couple of months.
Zlatan has scored more goals than any other top-flight footballer in England in all competitions this season, three clear of Arsenal's Alexis Sanchez.
It's only a matter of time before Madrid come in for him.
You seriously need to stop with the commonsense posts mate! Good one again.
A weird question I've never really considered: Does Zlatan get an assist for winning the penalty, if he took it as well?
You can't assist yourself, surely?
One thing I don't think his detractors are giving him credit for is how some of the goals he scored are simply because of how good he is. We're not suddenly creating double the chances of all the other teams and any striker would be on 23 goals by now.
Like his goal against Leicester in the Community Shield, that is not an easy header to win and score from, none of Martial, Rooney and Rashford would have scored it. The half-volley against City is only a chance because he has the flexibility to hit a volley 6 feet off the floor. The composure for the lob against Everton from 30 yards. The power and technique to get the header against Liverpool up and over the defenders and the keeper. Not to mention the long range strikes like against Bournemouth and Swansea which are half-chances at best.
He gets so many chances because he's so good.
Should get an Oscar for his self assist to both free kick & penalty
The agenda posters are having a mare in here.
Great that he scored a hattrick, even though he was a bit lucky. Nevertheless, his general play has gotten worse, he loses too many balls for a player with such technical skills.
A good striker should have scored 4 or 5.. and why didnt he get an assist also.. No, i say we bench him for someone better.. like Rashford.
Part of me wants him to score more 17 tap ins, penalties and deflected free kicks, just for banter.
Yeah I forgot he won the free kick as well. 3 goals and 2 assists in 90 minutes and still people moan!
Despite getting a hattrick, my favourite moment from him yesterday was when he was actively hunting down a Saint-Etienne player down the left near the end of the 1st half. Like that time (against West Brom/Crystal Palace?) where he decided to play in midfield to see out a game, I always appreciate his defensive work.
what can you say?
Was his general play good? No, way to many sloppy mistakes and passes.
Does it really matter if he scores three goals? No, not really.
What a fecking man.
23 goals and 7 assists, average rating 6.2
Too be fair, he has played a whole lot of matches - 35 at the moment and I think there are still 28 left if everything goes well this season. Which adds to 63 appearances - but he'll maybe rest a couple, so it could maybe be up to 60 apperances his first PL season as a 35 year old and playing 90 + minutes. Who can blame him for not being in a hundred percent shape every game. But he doesn't complain, because the team needs him, not just to score, but as a target player, creating space for the others, being a leader and intimidating the opponents.
Ibra quote yesterday - "I try to do my best. Wherever I've gone, I've won. I'm like Indiana Jones."
Better way to judge is which player has the highest rating. IIRC De Gea last season had around 7. So we are like GDS (Italian Paper) where 6 is good
Edit: Here are the player ratings
Schweinsteiger - 7.5
Valencia - 6.6
Mkhitaryan - 6.6
Bailly - 6.6
Carrick - 6.5
Romero - 6.4
Jones - 6.4
Herrera - 6.4
Mata - 6.3
De Gea - 6.3
Zlatan - 6.2
Pogba - 6.2
Shaw - 6.1
Rashford - 6
Martial - 6
Blind - 6
Rojo - 5.9
Smalling - 5.7
Lingard - 5.6
Fellaini - 5.6
Darmian - 5.5
Young - 5.4
Rooney - 5.4
His defensive work has improved a lot over the years. I also like that he tries difficult things even when he's tired. Last night, 89th or 90th minute on the midfield, a ball from Rashford (?), was high but Ibra tried to reach it with his foot - he couldn't because it was too high, but his foot got head high. No other player has that psysique, at least none that I can think of at the moment, and none with his stature and age.
It would also help if he'd be subbed in certain games. So he might be a bit tired but then he should be rested and find his very best form again
Agree, but the only reason must be that Mourinho doesn't "trust" anyone else to do the same job as good as Ibra. Must think that an "out of form" Ibra is still better than a 100 % Rooney, Rashford or Martial. And to be honest, if he'd think that, he'd be right. But he should still take a risk a rest him at least in the games where a defeat doesn't "matter". The only period was in December when Mourinho admitted that he'd used Ibra too much, but that he had too use him because of the situation (they needed wins in the cup matches and there were a lot of matches in a short period of time too).
But Ibra is an "enigma" - sometimes it looks like he needs resting when playing a lot and sometimes it looks like he gets better the more he plays. Has been like this even Before his time in the PL. But in the end, he is human and it's normal too have "off" days - sure it would be great if both Ibra and Mourinho would know if he is in shape before the match, but unfortunately that is impossible.
Think it's more to do with height and Ibra being very useful when defending in our area. If Ibra was under 6ft I'm sure Mourinho would have brought him off earlier in a fews games.
As it is Jose likes to have his big guys on the pitch for the last 15 mins, ready for the oppositions long ball stuff.
Personally I think it's a minimal risk and would rather give his legs a rest here and there.
If his fitness is good then let him play. He was sprinting at full speed after a loose ball in the 85th minute yesterday, he's a phenomenon. Rooney can't even run that fast at top speed anymore and he's four years younger.
Agree about his height, but I don't think it's the only reason. Or else he would even use Fellaini instead of Ibra the last 10 minutes.
It's because of his versatility - can take care of long balls, can hold the ball till the teammates can move up, can make passes both as potential assists and passes that are crosses so that they attack from the other side, he basically takes care of most of the corners and if a chance would occur, he can also score.
These are a lot of great things he can do and finding a sub that can do all of that is probably impossible. Mourinho somehow doesn't want to be without these things if someone replaces him. But it can't only be because of his height.
I meant in general. And I meant to prove that it's hardly a huge issue when the best player in the world does it.
Where did I say I know for sure if he has been the best at getting into scoring positions this season? I haven't watched all the others much so I can't know for sure and I said the number of shots is only an indication. Yes I think he's ability of doing it is the best in PL, but that opinion is based on years of watching him and the other players mentioned in the stats, not just this season. If you're claiming the shot conversion stats shows he is the second worst finisher in the league then of course you have to have seen the other players chances to see if it's true.
Yes I agree. The top teams create as much as us though, so it could be that their chance creation is more equally distributed in the team while we create more for Ibra. But in that case, why aren't they creating more chances for their clinical striker? Or maybe their strikers aren't as good as Zlatan at getting into positions to score.
Nine pages since threadmark.
See below mate, but anyway my point was simply to play devils advocate using your own argument from the last few pages and spinning it. I actually don't believe when comparing players you have to have watched every game from every player in a season to have an opinion on a certain aspect of a players game. Whether that opinion is that Zlatan is very wasteful perhaps the most wasteful in the league or in your case you think he's the best at getting into position to score he may very well be.
I am not claiming anything of the sort mate. All i have said earlier in this thread is i think he is wasteful which the chances he has had (which believe the stats back up) and isn't a truly great finisher. I am making no claims about who is or isn't the worst finisher in the league, because the worst certainly wouldn't be a guy with 23 goals. And i'm not unhappy with Zlatan he's doing very well this season for a player of any age never mind a guy of 35.
Heres the thing though mate the list of players he was being compared to also contained Defoe and Lukaku so we shouldn't narrow the discussion simply down to the top teams. Zlatan plays with much better players than either of those two do.
I think it's all of those to some extent depending on the poster. Then there are those who lack understanding of the game and fail to see how his movement and hold up play is so important.
Zlatan is rubbish apart from the goals. De Gea is rubbish apart from keeping the ball out of the net.
You forgot to add, Mourinho is rubbish apart from winning titles. Or doesn't that fit, I'm not good at jokes?
To the many posters who've taken objection to the "complaints." Have you actually read them? Specifically what was said after last night's game?
It feels to me that a couple of posters object to a comment in the first instance and then twenty more come in to echo that sentiment. Without actually reading the posts they're protesting against.
I understand that's what you were trying to do and it's perfectly fine to have an opinion without watching every game but if you present stats like he did, then you really have to have seen every one of those shots to be able to interprete them properly, and even then it's difficult to judge wich chance was better than the other. That's what I have been trying to explain in my exchange with him, that shot conversion stats aren't something you can just put forward and say: Here you go, Zlatan is the worst finisher in the league.
I think you missunderstood. I meant, I think he has the best ability to do it based on years of watching him and the others he was compared to, not that he has necessarily been the best at it this season.
But the diffrence you fail to see is that I haven't used any stats as evidence for my claim. If you come out with stats you should be able to actually inerprete them or at least try to, and in order to do that you have to see all of the shots to form an opnion. Take the game yesterday as an example, if you hadn't seen the game and you see he scored a hattrick you would think it was his best game in United, but in reality it was far from it.
I think I have watched enough from all the players in question over the years to form an opinion on who has better movement. Now if I came up with stats to back it up comparing who is best at getting into scoring postions over the years then surely I would have needed to have more in depth knowledge to validate those stats, which I don't.
I didn't mean you as in yourself but in general for people who do it like the poster I was arguing with. Regarding the stats, see above. I also agree he isn't clinical, he never has been, and I have said it several times in this thread. Agree on everything else above, he certainly has done well.
Everton are a place behind us and regarding Defoe, from what I have seen from him over the seasons he is also very good at getting into positions to score, and I think he's more clinical than Zlatan from what I've seen. But I still don't understand how he got so many goals in that team. Regarding the stats, I don't think they prove anything, you need to see his shots to get something out of those stats.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's likely that people do that. And even if they did, what's the point of asking? It's not like they will admit it.
Only Zlatan can.
Fantastic player. Goals win games, he scores goals. Assists makes goals, he does assists.
Just what we need. A physical presence that is a pain for defenders to deal with. A creative enough forward that creates chances for his team. An experienced striker that gets into great positions. A serial winner whose dedication to winning will rub off on our players. A leader on the pitch and dressing room that exudes confidence and swagger. A mentor for our younger talents to look up too. A mental strength that takes not shit from other players and referees. A technically brilliant player that does things most footballers wouldn't dream of.
They probably won't but it's the only explanation I can come up with. It's clear you do read the posts. Others I'm not sure. The number of posters coming in after the game to spew up the usual hate and agenda name calling was crazy. They can't possibly have read the posts that offended them so. Nothing in particular was said, there's nothing to be outraged at.
Separate names with a comma.