You said that three minutes ago!
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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He did ok.
But lets be honest his home record against the big boys at Everton wasn't bad. It's the away record, I was worried about. Sunday is a bigger test.
But lets be honest his home record against the big boys at Everton wasn't bad. It's the away record, I was worried about. Sunday is a bigger test.
Predictable
Mediocre
Uncharacteristic
Mediocre
Uncharacteristic
Honeymoon period is over.
Don't understand his obsession with bringing in a new left back. Evra is in fine form.
21:00
Moyes: "Leighton's a no go? Get me Fabio Coentrao then!"
Ed: "Will do." Rubs hands and thinking "Ha, we already have Fabio, saved me some money there." Takes nap.
22:55
Moyes: "Is Coentrao OK now?"
Ed: "Coentrao? Who?"
Moyes: "Fabio Coentrao at Madrid! You fecked this one up too didn't you?!"
Ed: "Sorry, I'll get right on it." Calls Athletico Madrid.
23:05
Ed: "Sorry, couldn't be done, they just laughed at me at Athletico so he's probably not for sale. There's always the January window, right? Dave? Dave?"
21:00
Moyes: "Leighton's a no go? Get me Fabio Coentrao then!"
Ed: "Will do." Rubs hands and thinking "Ha, we already have Fabio, saved me some money there." Takes nap.
22:55
Moyes: "Is Coentrao OK now?"
Ed: "Coentrao? Who?"
Moyes: "Fabio Coentrao at Madrid! You fecked this one up too didn't you?!"
Ed: "Sorry, I'll get right on it." Calls Athletico Madrid.
23:05
Ed: "Sorry, couldn't be done, they just laughed at me at Athletico so he's probably not for sale. There's always the January window, right? Dave? Dave?"
To anwer a post in another thread:
As for management of the club, more specifically Ed Woodward, I feel we don't know enough but it did look like someone discovering this whole new part of his job, and being uneasy with it. However, I don't feel he should be blamed, surely the club knew that with the departures of SAF and Gill, this would be a difficult period, I'm not sure the transition was handled perfectly.
In any case, the only thing I'm 'disappointed' about (not embarrassed!) this summer, is that each time we won a title under Fergie, he managed to bring reinforcements in, to bring new blood and some challenge for everyone. It's typically what City failed to do last summer with their failed transfer window, and though some of us on here are going to try to rationalize the Fellaini deal (and he might turn out good, after all), I'm sure our direct competitors have been a bit reassured about how our business has gone. It all seems a bit stale, I hope I'm wrong and that Moyes will fire the team up though.
By management, I meant management team = the sports side.Yeah, this summer showed that they do.
As for management of the club, more specifically Ed Woodward, I feel we don't know enough but it did look like someone discovering this whole new part of his job, and being uneasy with it. However, I don't feel he should be blamed, surely the club knew that with the departures of SAF and Gill, this would be a difficult period, I'm not sure the transition was handled perfectly.
In any case, the only thing I'm 'disappointed' about (not embarrassed!) this summer, is that each time we won a title under Fergie, he managed to bring reinforcements in, to bring new blood and some challenge for everyone. It's typically what City failed to do last summer with their failed transfer window, and though some of us on here are going to try to rationalize the Fellaini deal (and he might turn out good, after all), I'm sure our direct competitors have been a bit reassured about how our business has gone. It all seems a bit stale, I hope I'm wrong and that Moyes will fire the team up though.
Don't feel he should be blamed? Who should we blame then, if not the chief executive? Gill's departure didn't come out of the blue, we had known for months in advance; there was plenty of time for Woodward and co. to pick up some tips. I'll say it again: being the CEO of Manchester United is not a position in which you're afforded patience or where you have years to learn the job. You're either up to it or not and Woodward and his team managed to embarass themselves and the club at every turn this summer. They SHOULD be blamed.
The sporting side of the management? We'll see. Moyes should have told Woodward to push the boat out for Herrera and pull out of the Fellaini deal, not the other way around.
Judge him in 2 years time.
His already difficult job has been made a fair bit harder by people around him...
Why 2 but not 6?
Shouldn't be funny, but it is
I kind of agree with you, Ed didn't walk into the office one day and say 'I am the new CEO' someone within the club appointed him, they also need to take some of the blame for hiring someone who was incompetent at doing their job. We also don't know who was in charge of the transfers, for now we are just assuming it was Ed who was given the job to value players and bid accordingly.
was going to ask this same question. evra is still doing great. we have fabio. buttner might not be the best defender around but he can play some of our home fixtures if we really need to give paddy a rest.
if the injuries are so bad to our Lbs then we still have evans. he can play at LB. if not giggs can play there. i bet we can even throw anderson or cleverley there and we will be okay.
if he is looking for an available real madrid player then i can name 3 players that he could have easily try to sign. modric, ozil and khedira. instead he went for another left back.
the disappointing thing is that i think moyes was never really interested in getting herrera. the interest on herrera was just all dummy. all he wanted was fellaini and baines. that's all. he looked very happy presenting fellaini to the press.
very disappointing first summer. i hope he can still improve from now on.
This whole debacle must have affected Moyes relationship with Woodward though. He won't have any trust in him now, nor respect. We all know what happens when Manager and Chairman don't get on.
I could understand his interest in Baines, he's worked with him and really wanted to do it again, he was very vital to Everton's set up.
With that deal dead in the water I assumed he could now settle for Evra. But no, straight to the next left back on the list. Evra must be wondering what's going on.
Lets be honest. If one of us had written a self deprecating WUM of Moyes's first few months in charge, we' be hard pressed to top this without slipping into surrealism.
Obviously we should all "get behind him" and should be years off calling for his dismissal or anything of the sort, but it's incredibly disheartening how low rent his approach has been so far. The petty haggling and negotiation goofs may not be his fault, but the Cookish pursuing of Fabregas was, and the seeming indication that the only serious targets he had his heart set on where a couple of players from Everton, one of whom we didn't need, is exactly the kind of thing we'd been joking about all summer.
The idea of an upper mid table man with an upper mid table mindset promoted beyond his comfort zone has been the elephant in the room for months now. So far I've seen nothing to contradict it, sadly. The overwhelming impression of graft > creativity given by his recent team/sub selections in big games we didn't even score in doesn't help matters either.
I dearly hope to be proved wrong. These are just my concerns at this - admittedly very early - point.
Obviously we should all "get behind him" and should be years off calling for his dismissal or anything of the sort, but it's incredibly disheartening how low rent his approach has been so far. The petty haggling and negotiation goofs may not be his fault, but the Cookish pursuing of Fabregas was, and the seeming indication that the only serious targets he had his heart set on where a couple of players from Everton, one of whom we didn't need, is exactly the kind of thing we'd been joking about all summer.
The idea of an upper mid table man with an upper mid table mindset promoted beyond his comfort zone has been the elephant in the room for months now. So far I've seen nothing to contradict it, sadly. The overwhelming impression of graft > creativity given by his recent team/sub selections in big games we didn't even score in doesn't help matters either.
I dearly hope to be proved wrong. These are just my concerns at this - admittedly very early - point.
Moyes seems to have been let down by he people running the club.
He and the scouts are there to identify who they want but it's up to the people with the chequebook and MasterCard to go and make it happen.
Hopefully Moyes can keep the spill over from deadline day dickishness away from the football and can get Fellaini settles in so we can start winning some football games and get on a competitive level in all competitions. That's where I judge Moyes.
Tactically, disappointing so far. Team has lacked balls and fire, but too early to slate him and them.
He and the scouts are there to identify who they want but it's up to the people with the chequebook and MasterCard to go and make it happen.
Hopefully Moyes can keep the spill over from deadline day dickishness away from the football and can get Fellaini settles in so we can start winning some football games and get on a competitive level in all competitions. That's where I judge Moyes.
Tactically, disappointing so far. Team has lacked balls and fire, but too early to slate him and them.
On the plus side, presuming Chelsea are the team to beat, we managed not to actually lose at home to our main title rivals for only the second time in six seasons. Which is nice. On the other hand we shat the bed at Anfield for the seventh time in a row.
In other words, I see very little difference in Moyes' approach to big games compared to Fergie's. Unfortunately.
In other words, I see very little difference in Moyes' approach to big games compared to Fergie's. Unfortunately.
Yeah that's all bollocks, to be fair Mockney. Moyes targeted a higher calibre of player than we have in years and they weren't interested. Most of us would have took Fellaini before the window opened. Moyes isn't to blame for what happened this summer.
I hope Moyes comes to his sense and start playing Kagawa instead of Giggs. Giggs can come in as an impact player not starting I'm afraid.
the transfer window has been a harsh lesson for Moyes and Woodward.....
in the long run it could be a valuable one and you can guarantee that we will do our business a lot better next summer
Overall Fellaini is a good addition to the team and he gives us something our other midfielders don't - I think he could be very strong defensively in some games and offer us a threat in the box as well. as for the other nonsense this summer we've talked about it enough and it shouldnt happen again.
the weekend at Anfield was a Fergie performance and we've played much worse in the past and got a result. My one concern was Kagawa not being involved - he should be in the side before Giggs/Young
in the long run it could be a valuable one and you can guarantee that we will do our business a lot better next summer
Overall Fellaini is a good addition to the team and he gives us something our other midfielders don't - I think he could be very strong defensively in some games and offer us a threat in the box as well. as for the other nonsense this summer we've talked about it enough and it shouldnt happen again.
the weekend at Anfield was a Fergie performance and we've played much worse in the past and got a result. My one concern was Kagawa not being involved - he should be in the side before Giggs/Young
Agreed, at the end of the day it was Woodward who has to do the deals. Moyes cant work with the team and try to sort these types of issues. My only gripe with Moyes is I feel he was happy leaving it to the last minute because that what he was used to at Everton but at United it shouldn't work that way.
Refusing to take off Giggs, playing Valencia at right back, insisting we played well...it was like a Fergie tribute act.
He identified one incredibly unrealistic target who nobody thought we'd ever get (which bore out as true) and two people from his former club, a significant level below us. One of which we didn't need. At both ends of the spectrum he seems out of kilter so far. He also then decided to go for another two players right on deadline day. This is just as much his fault as Woodwards.
As I said, give him time, but you can't absolve him entirely of this summer. The identification of targets has been shocking IMO, whilst other teams have found shed loads of players to fit their needs. And in the end, regardless of the shenanigans, we've ended up bringing in one player, from Everton. If I wasn't a United fan, I'd find that very amusing.
I think that's a fair post in amidst the utter bollox on here today (not so much in this thread than in others).
We have a new manager and he needs time. Lets not turn into Chelsea, Manchester City or Newcastle United where a whole flow of managers came and went. What the feck did the aforementioned win over the course of the past 10 years in comparison to United?
There are too many microwave fans that want it all immediately, but that's not what makes Manchester United so fond to follow as a club. Obviously we all want to see some beautiful football and win trophies, but don't forget that in order for Fergie to attain such success he was given the grace of time. If you want another 26 years of glory then you may need to spare a year or two.
He was known as 'Dithering Dave' at Everton but I always suspected that was due to having to find last-minute bargains, possibly having finally sold off one of his more expensive players. He completely deserves the benefit of the doubt on the transfer policy, I didn't buy into his stuff about how he could only start working on things in July (he knew he was manager by early May) but it did leave us behind and also meant he was looking for a different calibre of player than he would've been intensely scouting at Everton.
However, there has still been dithering by him and the club. We didn't bid for Fabregas until mid July, straight after Barca had sold Thiago, and although we decided we'd try to let Fellaini's clause expire to get a better deal (that went brilliantly) we didn't actually bid for 3 weeks after the clause had expired. We also only made an offer for a player with a complicated release clause with 4 days left and then seemingly failed to go back in until deadline day. Hopefully Moyes and, in particular, Woodward learn from the mistakes made this year and will have more time to plan what to do next year. Despite it all, we've actually come out of it not too badly (possibly one player short) and with plenty of money left over.
Moyes' start overall has been ok but unspectacular, the transfer market was frustrating, he's carried himself reasonably well barring the odd cock-up and the results have been about par even if we've been a bit negative. Thankfully he's at a club where he most of the fans will rightly give him time to develop into the manager he can be and build the team that he's capable of.
A nice bit of sense, and the way we all should be looking at it. Just give it time
Can someone tell me what exactly Moyes offer/bring to United as a manager apart from the fact that he's Scottish and he claimed he's hard working ?
It's hard to tell at this stage. You should be able to answer your own question by the end of the season when he's been give 9 months to prove himself. Go off, have a baby in the mean time and we'll catch up in May
The only thing I could blame him, is if he really wasn't fussed about signing Thiago and Ozil when their representatives sounded United. Apart from that, if true, we don't have a lot to blame him. He's doing a good job so far, and takes a while to get accustomed to the job. There was always gonna have immense pressure following Fergie.
Let's Assume that our formation will be similar to the following, throughout the season:
---------ST----------
AM------AM-------AM
-----CM------CM-----
LB----CB----CB----RB
---------GK----------
I will be very happy if DM can maintain the following priority list for these positions:
ST: 1.RVP 2.Rooney 3.Chicha 4.Welbeck
AM: 1.Rooney 2.Kagawa 3.Nani 4.Welbeck 5.Young 6.Valencia 7.Zaha 8.Giggs 9.Januzaj
CM: 1.Carrick 2.Fellaini 3.Cleverley 4.Anderson 5.Lingaard 6.Jones
LB: 1.Evra 2.Fabio 3.Evans
RB: 1.Rafael 2.Fabio 3.Jones 4.Smalling
CB: 1.Vidic 2.Rio 3.Jones 4.Smalling/Evans
GK: 1.DDG 2.Lindegaard
If we can ensure that we don't play giggs/jones in MF and other such things, unless we absolutely have to, we will do very well.
Kagawa, Nani and Rooney, need some games. Even if they are not playing at their best level, DM should stick with them. Cause if all three can raise their games from last season(no reason why they can't if they are consistently played), we will do very, very well.
---------ST----------
AM------AM-------AM
-----CM------CM-----
LB----CB----CB----RB
---------GK----------
I will be very happy if DM can maintain the following priority list for these positions:
ST: 1.RVP 2.Rooney 3.Chicha 4.Welbeck
AM: 1.Rooney 2.Kagawa 3.Nani 4.Welbeck 5.Young 6.Valencia 7.Zaha 8.Giggs 9.Januzaj
CM: 1.Carrick 2.Fellaini 3.Cleverley 4.Anderson 5.Lingaard 6.Jones
LB: 1.Evra 2.Fabio 3.Evans
RB: 1.Rafael 2.Fabio 3.Jones 4.Smalling
CB: 1.Vidic 2.Rio 3.Jones 4.Smalling/Evans
GK: 1.DDG 2.Lindegaard
If we can ensure that we don't play giggs/jones in MF and other such things, unless we absolutely have to, we will do very well.
Kagawa, Nani and Rooney, need some games. Even if they are not playing at their best level, DM should stick with them. Cause if all three can raise their games from last season(no reason why they can't if they are consistently played), we will do very, very well.
I actually think the team have looked more tighter as a unit and more fitter under Moyes. The goals will come, but he needs to stop picking Young and a 40 year old when you have other better options. Oh and stop playing Jones as a fullback or midfielder. I think he'll do well.
He got even harder job, now. When Fergie said to stand by the new manager, he was not only talking about the fans but also the people who work with him.
I thought he's gonna have full support during the window and as we can look now on his shortlist, he had in mind to finally build a juggernaut of a midfield and he was absolutely spot on in including there Fabregas, De Rossi, Fellaini and Herrera...
He's an ambitious manager and overall a hard working man. When he was in Everton, the chairman despite low budget supported him for full 10 years and I hope people at United will really help him even greater deal as this guy deserves to work with the best and win trophies.
So far he's full of energy, optimism and belief in what he have. I hope nothing and no one will stop him in building even stronger side than United already is.
I thought he's gonna have full support during the window and as we can look now on his shortlist, he had in mind to finally build a juggernaut of a midfield and he was absolutely spot on in including there Fabregas, De Rossi, Fellaini and Herrera...
He's an ambitious manager and overall a hard working man. When he was in Everton, the chairman despite low budget supported him for full 10 years and I hope people at United will really help him even greater deal as this guy deserves to work with the best and win trophies.
So far he's full of energy, optimism and belief in what he have. I hope nothing and no one will stop him in building even stronger side than United already is.
My big hope is that Moyes over the last couple of weeks has come to understand exactly why Sir Alex viewed the press as an enemy of this football club.
I want to see Kagawa play more (is he fit?).
Less Giggs, Cleverly and Young.
Less Giggs, Cleverly and Young.
The press is part and parcel of modern footballing life. United get good press when they deserve it and bad press when they don't. Moyes will
more concerned about winning football matches then what's in the press.
Don't agree with the Cleverley part. I think he has been fine and given time will continue to improve.
Giggs I think we need to ration his time on the pitch and keep him fresh for the second part of the season where he usually shines.
Kagawa not playing is a real mystery. But hopefully with Fellaini on board this will encourage Moyes to field him more often with the protection our new signing provides. Should be no excuse not to use Kagawa over someone like Young or even Giggs.
I like Cleverley too but not for the game at Anfield. I would have preferred Anderson in that position for that game. Presumably Fellani now will occupy that spot.
Giggsy is still a player but as you say maybe not a regular starter at this point.
I like the thought of using someone at Anfield to keep Johnson occupied and allow Evra to come forward but I would have used Welbeck to do that to free up the spot for Kagawa. Again that is if he was fit enough to start.
I suppose hindsight is 20/20. Cleverley didn't have the best of matches at anfield. However, if someone told you we would manage 57% possession over there and limit them to almost no chances you wouldn't believe them. We've always struggled there because of the game raising cnuts they are. But it was honestly the best we've played in terms of possession and limiting danger that I can remember. I do believe that Cleverley and Carrick had a lot to do with that. Its just a shame we chose the wrong attacking players (Giggs! Young!) to provide the cutting edge.
Him and Woodward could be the start of a few barren Arsenal-style years... maybe Liverpool-style, but let's not go there. Yet.
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