That Ricky Lambert is a very important player for Southampton?
What else would you make of it?
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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What else would you make of it?
That Lambert was quite good for Southampton?
I wonder what the average figure would be for a regular starter in an attacking role across all PL clubs.
Dunno, they gave the top 3 or 4 I think.
It would tell me that Lambert plays most of the time in the opposition half and therefore will/should be involved in quite a high percentage of goals scored.
It doesn't tell me Lambert is a great player.
Same applies to Rooney.
The same applies to all forward players, yet those two, plus Suarez, were in the top spots for doing so.
It's like dismissing a keeper's clean sheet record by saying "Well that's what he's supposed to do"
Fair enough, but it would be interesting to see how many minutes these players played in comparison to others.
It's nothing like that whatsoever.
A statistic saying that he was involved in 40% of our goals scored (and that this % is amongst the highest in the league) on its own doesn't tell us much without comparing how many goals were scored in absolute numbers, and without comparing how many minutes other strikers had on the pitch.
Only after compiling all that do you start to get a sensible basis for comparison.
I know Rooney is involved in many of our goals, although I do feel we can still recover better as a team by replacing him with a faster and more direct player.
Rooney will always contribute as he scores about 18-25 a season, and gets a lot of assists. These assists are often from corners and crossed free-kicks though, and I'm pretty sure we could replace that delivery with Mata quite easily. His assist stats may portray him as some sort of creative genius but in my opinion that isn't the player he is.
Ultimately, the issue with whether Rooney and Persie could play together last season arose from the lack of penetration up top. It was clear we needed a runner to mix things up. An attack with Rooney, Persie, Mata and Adnan will have days where it is devastating, but will also be easy to shut out too. No runners, everyone wanting the ball to feet and trying to be creative and nobody to stretch defences. Danny Welbeck isn't what I would call a 'top player', yet it was obvious towards the back end of last season that we needed to work him into the team somehow as our attack was too laboured. Imagine what we could do with a Robben, Reus, Pedro or Sanchez, able to contribute about 18 league goals a season, but also make us less predictable to defend against.
Of the attacking quartet I mentioned above, I see Rooney as the one to miss out as we have players who are better in the two roles he plays best in. From a purely footballing perspective, this is the logical adjustment in the construction of a top side. Replacing Rooney with Robben for example, would give a front four who are technical enough to work together as a unit, but with individual unique skills too. I'm not convinced we need a player up front to switch the ball from left to right, providing we have some qualified midfielders to do that if when the need arises.
Rooney will always contribute as he scores about 18-25 a season, and gets a lot of assists. These assists are often from corners and crossed free-kicks though, and I'm pretty sure we could replace that delivery with Mata quite easily. His assist stats may portray him as some sort of creative genius but in my opinion that isn't the player he is.
Ultimately, the issue with whether Rooney and Persie could play together last season arose from the lack of penetration up top. It was clear we needed a runner to mix things up. An attack with Rooney, Persie, Mata and Adnan will have days where it is devastating, but will also be easy to shut out too. No runners, everyone wanting the ball to feet and trying to be creative and nobody to stretch defences. Danny Welbeck isn't what I would call a 'top player', yet it was obvious towards the back end of last season that we needed to work him into the team somehow as our attack was too laboured. Imagine what we could do with a Robben, Reus, Pedro or Sanchez, able to contribute about 18 league goals a season, but also make us less predictable to defend against.
Of the attacking quartet I mentioned above, I see Rooney as the one to miss out as we have players who are better in the two roles he plays best in. From a purely footballing perspective, this is the logical adjustment in the construction of a top side. Replacing Rooney with Robben for example, would give a front four who are technical enough to work together as a unit, but with individual unique skills too. I'm not convinced we need a player up front to switch the ball from left to right, providing we have some qualified midfielders to do that if when the need arises.
How utterly ridiculous.
Why? He's a technically superior player.
A level or two above? That's one of the most stupid statements I've ever heard. He's better technically but Rooney is better in numerous other ways and similar statistically - better last season.
Van Persie is better than Rooney at striker but there isn't much in it. Saying he's a "level or two above" is just stupidity.
Enumerate all of them.
I think Van Persie is a level or two above Rooney as well. Tell us all, as best you can, why this judgement is "utterly ridiculous" and "one of the stupidest things you've ever heard".
Depends on how on compares them. I think RVP is a level above Rooney as a striker, but that it is an unfair comparison as Rooney is at his very best in a false-9 role where he can drop slightly deeper with wingers running in to the space behind the centre-backs.
It is a really slight change of tactics, and Rooney in his best role is as good as RVP in his best role in my eyes. It is just so much more difficult to play Rooney in his best role as it means we can't use an AM behind him and we need two goal-scoring world-class wingers. Basically we need to adjust the way PSG has to Zlatan, Madrid has to Benzema, Dortmund did to Lewandowski and Barcelona are doing to Messi.
You need to play a 4-3-3 with wingers cutting inside.
RvP "level or two above" Rooney. WUMs aren't even trying hard nowadays.This thread has turned into a shithole. The amount of abuse and lack of respect towards Rooney is ridiculous.
Passing, better set piece taker, better work rate, more flexible as can play different positions. Also despite Van Persie being taller, Rooney is actually superior in the air to him as well.
You think Van Persie is a level or two above Rooney? The same Rooney who will likely end his time as your all time top scorer, the same Rooney who last season totally outperformed Van Persie? Who was maybe one or two goals shy of Van Persie's best ever tally when he was at Arsenal.
It's just ridiculous, the bias against Rooney. Van Persie is a level or two above Hernandez, not Rooney. What have you seen from Van Persie that makes him this much better? Plenty United fans last season wanted him out. Rooney's stats are just as good as Van Persie, generally with more assists added in and that's with him adding more with his excellent work rate as well.
It's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard because it has no founding whatsoever factually. To be a level or two above Rooney as a striker, he'd have to be producing numbers that totally outstrip Rooney. He doesn't. Ronaldo or Messi are a level or two above Rooney, they produce numbers to back this up, as well as performances.
Rooney is a top player who always produces goals and assists, even when playing poorly. Van Persie is better at striker but he's not "a level or two above" or any other nonsense.
It's the common view here, indicative of the microscopic attention span of the modern United fan. Rooney has been at the club too long, and people are simply bored of him. They may deceive themselves by claiming to by moral paragons by disowning Rooney because he may have had thoughts of leaving the club in the past. Manchester United players are not allowed to do this according to these fans, despite it being exceeding common for players to occasionally desire a new challenge. It is also fine for them to destroy their disliked players and hope for them to be sold, but when it comes to a player expressing the possibility of leaving, then they are left with no option but to disown them. It is very weird, they demand loyalty from players, but show none for them. Only the recent signings are championed, and those who have been key players at the club for many years are worthless to them.
No idea why some United fans seem to hate who in my view is their best overall player.
While I'm tired of the Rooney abuse, van Persie is by far our best player.
There isn't much between them at all.
I think he is referring to now, not when they are both at their best.
Probably not all that much, but van Persie is among the best centre-forwards in the world, Rooney is the level just below that.
There are very few strikers I'd take over Rooney at Spurs, if he was at his best. I'd put him among the top forwards in world football.
Unlike Van Persie he's often played out of position, even in midfield. If it was a straight choice between the two, I'd take Rooney at WHL.
He's played out of position because there are better players playing on his normal position.
Yeah, ok. Keep hating on him, I'm sure you'll celebrate all his goals and assists the same.
Are you saying Hernandez and Welbeck are better than Rooney in his 'normal position' then, because a few seasons ago, both were played ahead of Rooney in the striker role?
Fact is, Rooney is a versatile player, and has been one of the best around in the role that he has played (support striker) since he's been at United. Despite who's been playing in front of him, whether it be Welbeck, Van Persie, Hernandez, Berbatov, etc, he's always produced, which is why he gets played in that role.
Why do people have to "hate" Rooney to be making an observation on his performances?
Some people think his best performances were over 3 seasons ago. Its also fair to say that he wouldn't be played out of position unless he was accommodating better players in his preferred position.
Many people feel that Rooney has ridiculous talent but in more recent years there have been far too many excuses given as to why he has failed to consistently perform at optimum level. His application and mentality is very much questionable. .
There are too many Rooney apologists who really wont see Rooney for what he has been of late. A player whose progress stopped 3 seasons ago at a time when most footballers are reaching the peak of their game. He has not improved in 4 years (brilliant season in 2010) and its not all down to him being played out of position. Nobody was pushing for him to be such a Muppet about contractual demands and its clear its had a negative impact on his career. He cannot blame anybody else but himself for that . .
Rooney and RvP is not a good partnership. It was decent for the first half of the season, then I remember the second half (when we became defensively solid when Vidic returned) when they played together and it was completely toothless. In fact we were pretty bad attacking wise overall in the second half of the 13/14 season.
I don't remember Rooney being played on the wing to accommodate Hernandez or Welbeck. As far as I know 2nd striker is his natural and favorite position, so I don't know what exactly are you talking about.
I actually agree, except for the set-piece bit. Rooney is an underrated direct free kick taker, but his corners are bogus. When RVP arrived and started taking corners, we actually started scoring from them. RVP is excellent at corners and free kicks.
I disagree with this too. RvP was injured for large spells of last season, played 12 fewer games, and still scored the same amount of goals as Rooney. Rooney was our best outfield player, but there wasn't much in it.
Overall, I agree there isn't much between them. RVP is better IMO, but not outrageously so. If Rooney hadn't have pissed about over getting pay rises, he'd probably still be adored here. People seem too critical of him these days, probably because they just don't like him anymore.
That is the only thing and they should admit that rather than talking bullshit and making excuses to hate him and criticize him unfairly.
Guys when you are rating Rooney, do you rate him as a striker or as a AM? For a striker you have to be plain, in only 2 seasons the lad has really really scored lots of goals.
It's what we do around here. We don't appreciate our greatest players and say they should be sold, but over the years grow found of players and place hope in those like Nani and Anderson.
It wasn't always second striker, though, was it? Many times, against tough opposition, Rooney had to drop into midfield, while Welbeck or Hernandez got the striker role. Barcelona in 09.
As a striker he is undoubted I believe, at least I haven't ever seen anybody complain about him being anything but world-class there. The only critique he gets as a striker is when compared to RVP who has the edge over him so it seems sometimes as if people don't rate him as they discuss his weaknesses compared to RVP.
I rate him highly as a centre-forward as well, but as an AM he isn't world-class but that isn't weird as not many players are world-class in three positions. Being world-class as the striker and CF is already a great achievement for Rooney, he is unfortunate we have one of the finest AM's in the world in Mata and one of the finest strikers in RVP in the team.
Opening this thread is like somebody telling you there is a billion pound note at the bottom of a barrel of sewerage. Having your arms tied and the only way to get it is with your mouth.
He didn't play in midfield vs Barca in 2011(I'm assuming you are talking about that game).
But you are right, actually he started a few games in midfield in Fergie's last year vs some lesser teams when we were rotating our forwards or when we tried diamond. He even put in a transfer request over it at the end of that season.
It's not even that. It just doesnt seem to be any cohesion in terms of what people are discussing. It feels like the caf will never be able to talk about Rooney without it blowing up into a shitshow
Respect is an odd thing though, what entitles a man to be respected? It differs for everyone. I respect a man for being a good bloke, honest, trustworthy, loyal, or someone who makes a difference to the world, not for being a very good footballer, I'm sure everyone in this thread has a different scope for what they respect.
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