Film Lord of the Rings

Twigg

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That's not right either. Thorondor was sent by Manwe to watch over the Noldor but there's no place in the book they've been classified as Maia. Gandalf wasn't a Maia either, he was Istari. Thorondor's classification has always been Eagles of Valinor.

Gandalf doesn't gain the right to fight Sauron directly by becoming white. Since Saruman had fallen, he comes back as the leader of his order, like a promotion. Istari were sent to earth in the aid of Elves/Men to defeat evil. There are no guidelines as to how to fight them. Each of them fight in their own way, Saruman studied lore because his power was knowledge. Saruman should have got Narya, but Cirdan the shipwright gives the ring to Gandalf because he perceives Gandalf is the good guy. Narya's power is to inspire others to fight tyranny, that's why Gandalf is always motivating men, elves, dwarves and hobbits. Him being Istari and a wizard, he is already powerful, but with the ring too, he's able to do it even more effectively.

The eagles plot could well be true, but that's a fan theory and that's all. Eagles only come to Gandalf's assistance in grave danger and they are a proud race of Valinor. They would not bear load as if they are common mules. They also do not partake in any schemes by Men willingly because it's not their job.
I'm pretty sure Gandalf was a Maia, but that's not from reading the books that's just from various sources on the internet, such as three Wiki's and multiple discussion forums.
 

fishfingers15

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They wouldn't have the budget for that. But who knows, could be possible I guess. I'd love it though <3
Yeah, I think Christopher Tolkien would be very receptive to a HBO Serial, there will be loads of screen time to be truthful to the plot and generally HBO serials offer greater creative freedom to the directors. Budget is a definite concern though. But let's be honest here, it'll be epic.
 

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Yeah, I think Christopher Tolkien would be very receptive to a HBO Serial, there will be loads of screen time to be truthful to the plot and generally HBO serials offer greater creative freedom to the directors. Budget is a definite concern though. But let's be honest here, it'll be epic.
I don't think it'll meet HBO's nudity requirements.
 

fishfingers15

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I'm pretty sure Gandalf was a Maia, but that's not from reading the books that's just from various sources on the internet, such as three Wiki's and multiple discussion forums.
He is of the order Maia, but he is a Wizard and their order is called Istari. Melian is an example of Maia, they are the direct helpers for Valar who aided in the creation of Arda. Balrogs are the order of Maia and they aided Melkor/Morgoth to destroy and plunder. Tolkien makes a distinction between Maia and Istari because the wizards do not make an appearance in the story until Sauron the wicked, who is also a Maia has to be defeated. I think the distinction is made because of the difference in timelines.
 

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This bump made me thinking we were getting three trilogies of Sam's family life in the Shire.

Disappointed.
 

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That's not right either. Thorondor was sent by Manwe to watch over the Noldor but there's no place in the book they've been classified as Maia. Gandalf wasn't a Maia either, he was Istari. Thorondor's classification has always been Eagles of Valinor.

Gandalf doesn't gain the right to fight Sauron directly by becoming white. Since Saruman had fallen, he comes back as the leader of his order, like a promotion. Istari were sent to earth in the aid of Elves/Men to defeat evil. There are no guidelines as to how to fight them. Each of them fight in their own way, Saruman studied lore because his power was knowledge. Saruman should have got Narya, but Cirdan the shipwright gives the ring to Gandalf because he perceives Gandalf is the good guy. Narya's power is to inspire others to fight tyranny, that's why Gandalf is always motivating men, elves, dwarves and hobbits. Him being Istari and a wizard, he is already powerful, but with the ring too, he's able to do it even more effectively.

The eagles plot could well be true, but that's a fan theory and that's all. Eagles only come to Gandalf's assistance in grave danger and they are a proud race of Valinor. They would not bear load as if they are common mules. They also do not partake in any schemes by Men willingly because it's not their job.
Istari are Maiar. I can't remember all the details but Istari was just another name (means Wizard I think) given to the five who went to middle earth. They were Maiar though. Also I don't think Saruman was 'meant' to get Narya. Cirdan just gave it to Gandalf because he deemed him as the most powerful. Gandalf in fact didn't want to go to middle earth in the first place, it was his reluctance which convinced the Valar to send him.


I don't know about the Eagles but its quite possible that they are a form of Maia in the same way that the Balrog is a Maia.
Regardless of the Eagles were indeed sent from Valinor then it is likely they are not meant to interfere where possible.
 

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Has anyone here read The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and The Children of Hurìn? Are they worthwhile reads? I just finished the Dunk & Egg novellas so I may as well consider reading those.
 

fishfingers15

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Has anyone here read The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and The Children of Hurìn? Are they worthwhile reads? I just finished the Dunk & Egg novellas so I may as well consider reading those.
I've read all of it and if you like Silmarillion, they are good reads. I've even tried the adventures of Tom Bombadil. Lot of poems though.
 

Twigg

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Has anyone here read The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and The Children of Hurìn? Are they worthwhile reads? I just finished the Dunk & Egg novellas so I may as well consider reading those.
I've not read them but I've heard The Silmarillion is really difficult to get into though. It starts off rather biblical and is difficult to understand.

I think there are also many, many letters about the lore of Arda if you want to get really into it.
 

fishfingers15

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Istari are Maiar. I can't remember all the details but Istari was just another name (means Wizard I think) given to the five who went to middle earth. They were Maiar though. Also I don't think Saruman was 'meant' to get Narya. Cirdan just gave it to Gandalf because he deemed him as the most powerful. Gandalf in fact didn't want to go to middle earth in the first place, it was his reluctance which convinced the Valar to send him.


I don't know about the Eagles but its quite possible that they are a form of Maia in the same way that the Balrog is a Maia.
Regardless of the Eagles were indeed sent from Valinor then it is likely they are not meant to interfere where possible.
See here :

He is of the order Maia, but he is a Wizard and their order is called Istari. Melian is an example of Maia, they are the direct helpers for Valar who aided in the creation of Arda. Balrogs are the order of Maia and they aided Melkor/Morgoth to destroy and plunder. Tolkien makes a distinction between Maia and Istari because the wizards do not make an appearance in the story until Sauron the wicked, who is also a Maia has to be defeated. I think the distinction is made because of the difference in timelines.
You are right, I should have said Gandalf is Istari of the order Maia. When the Istari came, Saruman was clearly the leader of their group and by right, he's the most powerful. Cirdan, as one of the high elves, deems it right to give the ring to Gandalf because in his heart, with his foresight he sees that Gandalf will play the greater part and not just because he's more powerful.

Tolkien classifies Balrag as a Maia, but the eagles are just classified as Eagles of Valinor.
 

DWelbz19

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I've read all of it and if you like Silmarillion, they are good reads. I've even tried the adventures of Tom Bombadil. Lot of poems though.
I've not read them but I've heard The Silmarillion is really difficult to get into though. It starts off rather biblical and is difficult to understand.

I think there are also many, many letters about the lore of Arda if you want to get really into it.
Hmm, hearing that from @Twigg does put me off a bit. How easy are they to get into @fishfingers15? I don't mind being really honed in every time I read, but a lot of deciphering and going back and forth from sources does sound a bit off-putting.

Could I read them as separate entities or is there a lot of entwinement?
 

Twigg

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Hmm, hearing that from @Twigg does put me off a bit. How easy are they to get into @fishfingers15? I don't mind being really honed in every time I read, but a lot of deciphering and going back and forth from sources does sound a bit off-putting.

Could I read them as separate entities or is there a lot of entwinement?
Ha, like I said I've not actually read them so don't take what I say for gospel.
 

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I've read some of The Silmarillion and it's definitely biblical at the start with Genesis vibes. Not sure how it progresses from that though. Not yet got back round to starting it again.
 

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I was randomly reading about Morgorth et al when I was curious as to who was more powerful, Sauron or Morgorth and it was no contest, the latter had a dragon the size of a mountain, Acanalong(?) The Black, he also battled with a giant spider called Ungoliant(?) and had armies of Balrogs!!
 

fishfingers15

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Hmm, hearing that from @Twigg does put me off a bit. How easy are they to get into @fishfingers15? I don't mind being really honed in every time I read, but a lot of deciphering and going back and forth from sources does sound a bit off-putting.

Could I read them as separate entities or is there a lot of entwinement?
I don't think @Twigg has read any of the books to be fair.

I've read all of it and I finished Silmarillion pretty quickly. But I've always been a heavy reader and I won't put books down unless I finish it.

This is what I would suggest

1) Read Lord of the rings first
2) Read Hobbit next
3) Read Silmarillion next.

These books have been revised multiple times now to maintain accuracy and you don't have to go forth between books. Silmarillion is more like a abridged version of really long stories in episodes. Once you read Silmarillion, you can try the rest. The children of Hurin is two (at the max three) chapters in Silmarillion expanded. There is a lot of time for character development. When reading Children of Hurin, I went back a couple of times back to Silmarillion. At the end of the day, if you like LoTR and Hobbit, you'd like the rest.
 

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Rewatched the Extended trilogy over the Xmas periods (motivated by coming back from holidaying in NZ and seeing Hobbiton/other filming locations... fecking magical stuff I tells you)... and without doubt, a highlight of mine from the whole thing is in ROTK, where Aarogorn marches up to the Black Gate and shouts - in a really thick Irish accent - "Let de Lord o' de Black Lan' com' fort" ... it is, hilarious.

Viggo Mortenson is really quite rubbish at shouting.
 

fishfingers15

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I was randomly reading about Morgorth et al when I was curious as to who was more powerful, Sauron or Morgorth and it was no contest, the latter had a dragon the size of a mountain, Acanalong(?) The Black, he also battled with a giant spider called Ungoliant(?) and had armies of Balrogs!!
Ancalagon the Black. Morgoth is immortal, Sauron is a Maia. Morgoth/Melkor was the master of Sauron, whom he had corrupted. Of all Melkor's armies, Sauron is the most powerful servant though, because of his cunning.

Yea, this is Morgoth vs Fingolfin

http://www.mrwallpaper.com/wallpapers/dark-lord-morgoth-vs-fingolfin-1280x1024.jpg
 

Twigg

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I was randomly reading about Morgorth et al when I was curious as to who was more powerful, Sauron or Morgorth and it was no contest, the latter had a dragon the size of a mountain, Acanalong(?) The Black, he also battled with a giant spider called Ungoliant(?) and had armies of Balrogs!!
He was a more poweful being too I believe. He was an Ainur whereas Sauron was a Maia which is a lower form of Ainur (I think)
 

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Hmm, hearing that from @Twigg does put me off a bit. How easy are they to get into @fishfingers15? I don't mind being really honed in every time I read, but a lot of deciphering and going back and forth from sources does sound a bit off-putting.

Could I read them as separate entities or is there a lot of entwinement?
The Hobbit is the easiest to get in, but I think that it was garbage. I hated every aspect of it.

The Lord of the Rings is more difficult to read (in fact it may be one of the most difficult fantasy books to read) and it is far better. Even there, I didn't liked it as much as some of the other fantasy books. It is nice and should be read from fantasy fans, even if it is for historical reasons but I really didn't like it near as much as some of the books from Martin, Rothfuss, Jordan or even Abercrombie or Sanderson. Like in movies, there is a lack of grey characters and the plot is relatively weak. But on the other side, the world building is awesome and reading it you can see the influence it has gven to the genre. Anyway, I liked the movies far more, and this is something that rarely happens for me (to like more the movies than the book form which the movie took the story).

Never read the Silmarillion but from what I heard, it is like a historical book. And the historical parts in LOTR were very tedious for me, so I doubt that I am going to read it anytime soon.
 

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What?! How big is he?
Tall, but not like in that picture. He stepped on Fingolfin neck, so if he was that big, he would have stepped on his entire body instead.

My estimation (based on pretty much nothing) would be 9-12 foot. But, I think that he could have changed his size, so that estimation is based on that duel. He doesn't have a true form (if I am not mistaken).
 

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What?! How big is he?
All of the Valar can change shape as required, but Melkor's original shape was that of a Mountain with head about the clouds. In his quest for power, he takes this terrible form of a dark lord towering like a mountain. After his attack on Aman with Ungoliant, his power dimnishes a bit and he loses his ability to change shape and has been thus ever afer.
 

fishfingers15

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Tall, but not like in that picture. He stepped on Fingolfin neck, so if he was that big, he would have stepped on his entire body instead.

My estimation (based on pretty much nothing) would be 9-12 foot. But, I think that he could have changed his size, so that estimation is based on that duel. He doesn't have a true form (if I am not mistaken).
Bitch, please.
 

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fishfingers15

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That photo makes me want another trilogy done all over again! That looks insane.
Fingolfin was pretty bad ass to be honest. He goes to the battle in desperation fearing the utter ruin of Noldor against an immortal enemy to his own land and challenges him to a single combat. There are some wonderful characters in Silmarillion. Beleg the strongbow, Turin Turambar, Hurin, Maedhros etc.
 

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Yeah the Silmarillion and unfinished tales are pretty heavy reading, it's just a collection of tolkeins notes etc compiled and edited into a form where they can be published.

If you have read the hobbits and LOTR and want to know more of the lore and history of tolkeins world then go for it - otherwise it can be a bit overwhelming.
 

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Ancalagon the Black. Morgoth is immortal, Sauron is a Maia. Morgoth/Melkor was the master of Sauron, whom he had corrupted. Of all Melkor's armies, Sauron is the most powerful servant though, because of his cunning.

Yea, this is Morgoth vs Fingolfin

http://www.mrwallpaper.com/wallpapers/dark-lord-morgoth-vs-fingolfin-1280x1024.jpg
Pfft, that's a screenshot from Dark Souls, is it not?

I'm currently reading the Silmarillion, having re-read the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings last year. I remember being tremendously off-put by the Silmarillion, having so many names of people and places providing context for the story. Upon re-reading I'm being more patient and getting more of the story, but it's still tough going... Definitely for people who are especially interested... It's definitely interesting, though, and the scale is larger than the previous books.
 

fishfingers15

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Pfft, that's a screenshot from Dark Souls, is it not?

I'm currently reading the Silmarillion, having re-read the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings last year. I remember being tremendously off-put by the Silmarillion, having so many names of people and places providing context for the story. Upon re-reading I'm being more patient and getting more of the story, but it's still tough going... Definitely for people who are especially interested... It's definitely interesting, though, and the scale is larger than the previous books.
Haa no :D

Fan art from deviantart, could have been inspired by Dark Souls though
 

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Rewatched the Extended trilogy over the Xmas periods (motivated by coming back from holidaying in NZ and seeing Hobbiton/other filming locations... fecking magical stuff I tells you)... and without doubt, a highlight of mine from the whole thing is in ROTK, where Aarogorn marches up to the Black Gate and shouts - in a really thick Irish accent - "Let de Lord o' de Black Lan' com' fort" ... it is, hilarious.

Viggo Mortenson is really quite rubbish at shouting.
How was hobbiton etc? My girlfriend is a huge fan of tolkien and would live to go to NZ to do the tour etc.

Is it easy to get to etc? How far is it from a city etc or do you have to go to that part of NZ purely for that purpose?
 

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How was hobbiton etc? My girlfriend is a huge fan of tolkien and would live to go to NZ to do the tour etc.

Is it easy to get to etc? How far is it from a city etc or do you have to go to that part of NZ purely for that purpose?
Heard it's pretty nice etc.
 

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How was hobbiton etc? My girlfriend is a huge fan of tolkien and would live to go to NZ to do the tour etc.

Is it easy to get to etc? How far is it from a city etc or do you have to go to that part of NZ purely for that purpose?
It's in/near a place called Matamata... which is the biggest "town" close to it (it's a pretty small place, but by NZ standards, it's a town). There's a tourist information centre in Matamata that does a shuttle bus service to Hobbiton - so its easy to get too once you're actually in Matamata.

I think most of the major tour companies (Kiwi Experience, whatever the other ones are called) all go through Matamata as it's suge a huge tourist destination. We had a car rented though, so we just drove there from Rotorua (a city about 50 minute drive away), there's also a city called Hamilton 40 minutes away that people come across from, but I didn't go there.

The actual place itself is pretty awesome. You get about 2 hours walking round the place (which includes a free drink in the Red Dragon) and, to sound a bit cliche, it is like being transported to another world (if you're a huge fan... if you're not, it's probably just a bunch of weird shaped round doors in the ground). I definitely recommend both it, and NZ in general - I hada fantastic time there.
 

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Saw the eagle theory years ago. I think tolkein or someone addressed eagles and explained why it wouldn't be viable.

Regarding movie rights - isn't the law with this sort of thing that the rights are released 53 years after the authors death, or something like that?
It's actually closer to 70. It's updated every now and a then. The Disney estate is a big influence on that.
 

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Hmm, hearing that from @Twigg does put me off a bit. How easy are they to get into @fishfingers15? I don't mind being really honed in every time I read, but a lot of deciphering and going back and forth from sources does sound a bit off-putting.

Could I read them as separate entities or is there a lot of entwinement?
I've only read Children of Hurin of those three and I really liked it.
 

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I'd just fast forward the initial few chapter of Silmarillion tbh. It gets interesting in the first age when the Dwarves and Elves kick off.
 

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Watched The Fellowship Of The Ring yesterday. Definitely one of the best movies ever made IMO. Best out of the trilogy too.
 

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It was the initial few chapters of the Silmarillion that put me off. Found it really hard to get through and ended up just giving up.
 

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Watched The Fellowship Of The Ring yesterday. Definitely one of the best movies ever made IMO. Best out of the trilogy too.
The divide between avid book readers and fans of the films is crazy. I absolutely adore the trilogy yet ask any ardent fan of the books and they'll tell you the films a terrible.

That's why I tend to avoid them folk. When an adaptation hits the big screen, or little, avoid them like the plague.
 

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The divide between avid book readers and fans of the films is crazy. I absolutely adore the trilogy yet ask any ardent fan of the books and they'll tell you the films a terrible.

That's why I tend to avoid them folk. When an adaptation hits the big screen, or little, avoid them like the plague.
Is there? I thought in general LOTR book readers tend to enjoy the films? Maybe not the hardcore ones I suppose... but I think its weird - I don't see why people just don't treat them as two completely seperate works of art (obviously there's a limit to this, but they are completely different art forms).

Personally - I've read all 3 books and I love them in a completely seperate way to my love for the films - which are 3 of my favourite films of all time.