Like I said, I don't know why or when he picked Man Utd. But as TH said, it's not a stretch to conclude that people who use trophies won as a jab that they think hurts far more than it actually does place an outsized importance on glory and trophies.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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If he stayed we would probably sell him this summer.
Then I think it was a pretty sly, meaningless dig that holds no context.
It's not really an agenda when most would agree it's a balanced point of view. Welbeck was underwhelming at United and has continued to be underwhelming at Arsenal. He's a forward player at a top club who has managed the same amount of goals as Smalling along with very few assists and has now been relegated to the bench during Arsenal's best period of the season, starting only 2 of their last 8 PL victories. Why the rush to say he would have added a lot to our team, especially when it would be at the expense of player's like Young, Rooney or Mata who have been much, much better?
It's an agenda to say he would have added more to the team than our current player's who are playing very well. I'd prefer to back United player's who are contributing to our best Football in the best part of 5 years, rather than previous players who contributed very little. Why anyone would fawn over someone who doesn't even make the first XI of a rival team I don't know. I assume it's just because he's a local lad who came through the ranks, although I didn't see any threads during our injury crises saying "O'Shea would have added a lot, he's way better than McNair, why did we sell him". So God knows.
Indeed it was. If @Eboue is very curious I can confirm that I got into football when I was about 9 and my grandfather and father supported United. The wall of text post also suggests that I hit a wee nerve regarding the drought (Relax, Eboue I'm half joking here!)
Edit: My first real United memory is Arsenal doing the double in the first full fecking season I supported them btw!
He got the response he deserved. If you want to reduce everything to more trophies ha ha lol then you should expect someone to remind you that arrogance is unbecoming.
Who about what..
You started it to be fair, by calling me bitter! I'd be bitter if the player you signed from us left us with one year left on his contract to win you the PL.
Thankfully that's not the case!
You called his celebration odious, which is hilariously bitter.
It was, and it wasn't.
I assume you didn't appreciate this:
And he even had the grace to not celebrate the first goal against you lot.
But he did seem to enjoy that first goal..
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But his celebration made him look like a proper cnut though and it's hardly bitterness really.
Indeed, like I said: If the player we sold had won Arsenal the league then I 'd be bitter.. It was just a profound lack of respect compared to other players (Ronaldo, RvP among others) who celebrated gracefully even though they spent 5 seconds at their clubs compared to the one we sold to Arsenal let alone growing up in the city as a die hard fan!
I'm struggling to follow what is going on here, who's celebration made him look a cnut?
Danny's celebration when he scored against us in the FA cup.
I don't even remember the first one happening.It was, and it wasn't.
I assume you didn't appreciate this:
And he even had the grace to not celebrate the first goal against you lot.
But he did seem to enjoy that first goal..
Sorry but that's just nonsense.
You'd have to be remarkably precious to be offended by him celebrating a goal with his team mates.
If he'd ran to our fans or grabbed the badge or gone all Adebayor then yea, but his celebration was fine.
I hardly got offended mate, I just think it speaks volumes about him. When he's left us I was a bit sad because after all it was our Danny and all that nostalgic bullshit, wished him well but him celebrating was simply disrespectful in my book. Adebayor and his celebration is in the league of his own.
I don't want to get into that discussion again though because it's simply garbaging this thread. You won't really convince me to your opinion, I won't convince you to mine so let's just call it a day.
The fuss on here about that "celebration" was amongst the most inane crap I've ever seen on here.
It was as muted a celebration as it gets. He made no gestures towards the fans and didn't try to offend anyone. Not sure why it bothered people so much.
He has been pretty rubbish really, certainly not going to displace Giroud any time soon either.With 700 minutes less played. Still bad, but Falcao isn't a permanent signing anyway.
Welbeck compared to our league scorers (sorted in order of g+a/m):
Another sorted in order of goals every x min:
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Footballers don't take this love of club thing as seriously as the fans.
Nail on the head there.
People seem (for some reason) to want him to prove Van Gaal wrong and go on to be this great player, and I'm not sure why. He did well for the club in terms of his effort and as a player I had a lot of respect for him, but sadly the brutal truth is he just wasnt good enough to lead the line for a top side.
The decision to sell him was the right one. He wanted regular football and was told he wouldnt get it at United. He's chosen to move to Arsenal where he's not going to get it either it seems. His next move is likely to be a step down and that's what might be best for him if he wants to be a regular for England. Sooner or later a player gets a chance and does well and if you're not playing as a forward its hard for the manager to pick you.
In general I could never see what people saw in him to make them think he was going to be a top class player. All the best strikers have composure and tend to have it from very early on. I never thought he had that. And while hard work and a good attitude are valuable assets - they're not everthing.
Whether he'll go on to improve, which looks unlikely right now, I think the point is that people want to give our young players more than the average amount of time to prove themselves & dont want to give up on them too easily. That may end up being over-supportive to the point of unreasonableness, but its natural.
What's also true is that while Welbeck is doing not a lot at Arsenal this season, Falcao has been undeniably worse. And given that LVG has gotten such good form out of Young & Fellaini, amongst others, its tempting to wonder whether he might have got more from Welbeck too.
I am still a bit sad. He could have been a good squad player for us even if he is not good enough to be a starter for us. For a manchester born boy I thought we find a place. We can't carry passengers but his workrate and pace are useful, if he only had better finishing qualities :-(
I don't think not celebrating is honest! Either a player should not have left (RVP) or he was no longer wanted (Welbz). In both cases he has every right to celebrate.
I don't think not celebrating is honest! Either a player should not have left (RVP) or he was no longer wanted (Welbz). In both cases he has every right to celebrate.
Never seen a guy scuff his shit so much, scores the shittest luckiest goals.
Didnt have anything against for celebrating a goal against us,nor i was surprised,mainly due his decision to join Arsenal on the first place.He made his decision and he had his reasons. Do i think he might had or pick other choices?Yes,we are not all the same,some would rather decide to go abroad,because they dont want to play for any other club then United,or they dont want to play against us etc.
He might find it hard to be in Arsenal`s regular XI when all are fit (not high chance for that tho).
He might find it hard to be in Arsenal`s regular XI when all are fit (not high chance for that tho).
at least you could never question his attitude so I have no bad feeling towards him.
Yeah, giroud is much better than him. Danny should have moved to a team where he's guaranteed to play week in week out. His game is simply not clinical enough for a team aspiring for big things.
I don't care about the celebration either. It's one thing celebrating like a walker it's another celebrating a moment of accomplishment. That, and the no celebration thing, either way, I don't see an issue whatsoever.
He isnt a very good striker, I have never rated him.
I've had some major clog (off here especially) for not rating him, so its nice to see him continue to not be very good when all the excuses for him not being very good are no longer there, such as not being played "in his position" "no midfield behind him" "no service" "not getting the ball to him quickly enough".
Arsenal have given him all that, and he still isnt very good, or is there another list of reasons I have over looked that isnt allowing him to deliver his previously unseen (but apparently guaranteed) 20+ league goals a season year in year out return?
Is he being fed the wrong kind of porridge? kit too red? goals need to be a bit bigger?
I've had some major clog (off here especially) for not rating him, so its nice to see him continue to not be very good when all the excuses for him not being very good are no longer there, such as not being played "in his position" "no midfield behind him" "no service" "not getting the ball to him quickly enough".
Arsenal have given him all that, and he still isnt very good, or is there another list of reasons I have over looked that isnt allowing him to deliver his previously unseen (but apparently guaranteed) 20+ league goals a season year in year out return?
Is he being fed the wrong kind of porridge? kit too red? goals need to be a bit bigger?
Never understood why players don't celebrate. The worst was RVP being respectful to Arsenal at the emirates while they rained down abuse on him.
Same here, it's a non-issue
The opinion that Welbeck would have been better than Falcao holds some water, but frankly, if your claim for a first team place is based on the fact that you're less rubbish than a player who has had an awful season and looks (on current form at least) to be a shadow of what he was.
No doubt had he stayed he could have contributed, but at his age he needed to either stay and accept being a squad player, or move on and hve a go elsewhere. Fair play to him for being brave and doing the latter. I think long term his chances would have only become more limited when better players were brought in, or when the system developed again.
He could've done a job for us but obviously seemed to think he was better than he was and wanted to leave. Fair play to the lad but we're not exactly going to miss him and he's still in the exact same situation he was with us, playing a bit part role because he's still not good enough.
It is, but clearly he had no confidence in being able to bring him on, hence why the manager actively told him to move on. That suggests that Van Gaal simply didnt rate him.
As in my post above, you can say he might have contributed more than Falcao - but if that's the yard stick then so might a lot of other players up and down the league. Falcao was expected to be much better than he has been, and evidently its not been a succesful loan spell. But being less rubbish than a player who has been that bad isn't really anything to shout about.
I can see why fans want home grown players to do well. We all want that, because you assume that player is more likely to feel a passion for the club that the fans themselves feel. But I dont see any sense in favouring homegrown players over others simply becuase they're local lads. A player has to be good enough to be a regualr, or he doesnt deserve his place.
In general Welbeck is not better a player now than when he left: Still doesnt score enough goals and the holes in his game are the same holes he had when he was here. From that point of view alone I think Van Gaal's decision can be vindicated, in the same way that he'll likely move on RVP and Falcao with no sentimentality or thought for what good players they have been. I think thats the right way for a manager to approach it.
Its a close second in the last year to the hatred of Jamie Vardy.
Absolutely. I really hate this argument, particularly as our best form has come when Falcao hasn't been in the team; "He'd be better than a player who in hindsight shouldn't have played a single game for us". It's such none-praise that I'm not even sure why anyone would bring it up. The fact that Welbeck would have been competing with Mata, Young & Rooney who have all been excellent (and even Di Maria who despite being poor lately has been better overall) seems to illude some people.
If the criterion for keeping a player is that he's better than someone dreadful then we're going to have a very full squad in the coming few years. As someone said previously: even if we did keep him and he did a little better than Falcao, would anyone seriously be thinking we shouldn't sell him and buy someone better this Summer?
Well I cant speak for anyone else, but in my case its not about praising Welbeck. I'm just wistfully thinking about how, had we stuck with Welbeck, we'd have a) been no worse off in squad terms and b) been able to see whether LVG could have worked his magic on Welbeck.
What I would certainly say is that back in August it was a no brainer choosing Falcao over Welbeck. This is just a pondering with the benefit of hindsight.
To be fair, I did say that we sold O'Shea a season too soon as well. Which due to injuries in that season we probably did
For that view some of the culpability has to fall on Welbeck's shoulders.
I agree it would have been great to see Van Gaal work with Welbeck but it honestly for me comes down to Welbeck's own desire. He wanted to leave because he didn't want to be a squad player at United. Fellaini and Young are currently succeeding because they didn't want to jump at the first opportunity offered to them outside and stuck with the club even though they weren't going to be first choice. Welbeck didn't want to risk being a squad player at United and now currently he is one at Arsenal.
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