[LoveFootball]

The annoying thing is all our best performances have come with high pressing.

Look how we beat Chelsea, we didn't give them a chance to breathe!

The problem is when you put more importance in the physicality when selecting your side instead of trying to incorporate talented players, you end up with average results! LVG did the same mistake by making Fellaini a mainstay in his team and as result he was unable to build a fluid midfield capable of playing the brand of football he wanted to! Mourinho is doing the same mistake and is rightly getting the same kind of results! No way should players like Lingard and Fellaini start ahead of the like of Martial, Mkitharyan or Mata! We have Darmian starting over Luke Shaw and Blind! This is unacceptable for a great club like United! On paper we have a better squad than Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal but when it comes for team selection we have the same line up than the like of Everton and Southampton, a bunch of average players coupled with 2 untouchable supposed to be world class talents (Pogba and ibra) and One world class keeper! I am sorry this is like Everton with Lukaku and Barkley trying to win game by individual talents!

SAF had a ruthless style of management but he knew how to handle young talents, as long as you weren't causing problems in the dressing room, he gave the like of Veron, Nani, Ronaldo, Anderson and many others the time and platform to develop their potentials, reason why you never seen a single talented player criticised him after he left us ( yes apart from that Argentina thug), reason why he developed many legendary players who all are grateful to him!
You'll hear no talented players having a good memory of his time with Jose! Even the players he won great things with never really spoke about him as the like of SAF, Guardiola or Ancelotti are being constantly prised by their former players!

Mourinho really struggles with talented players; we can buy a Messi, Mbappe or Griezman and he'll find a way to break their confidence! Not all the players are mentally as strong as CR7, some need different approach to get the best out of them!

We blame the like of Guardiola, Klopp and LVG for having only one style of playing football and struggled for a plan B; Mourinho has only one style of management and has no alternative which is very dangerous when he has to face players with big ego! I fear for the day he'll fall out with one of Pogba or Ibra!

 

[shield]

Looks quite good yesterday. Had Darmian as left back, Rooney as a forward and Fellaini in midfield to assist him. Don't think that is the right setup to bring about the best in your players and so it is a bit harsh to go read more into yesterday's performance .

Will judge him only when he is played in team which is capable of playing attacking football, not one which has Rooney trudging laboriously from one end to other.

 

[RedCurry]

Credit to Reddit & GIFLord, he had some moments of brilliance. The talent is there but he can be really frustrating.

Thanks for sharing.

These videos are great examples of what we are doing wrong with Martial.

The clip in which he plays a little pass and go with Fellaini, Rashford makes a diagonal selfless run to let Martial open his legs. Now suddenly he's facing just one centre back who's dead. Comes too close, he'll be skinned; goes too far away, Martial will bend it in the far corner.

Second clip where it seems like he overran the ball: He receives the ball and already has two players marking him who he has comfortably dribbled past. As soon as he receives the ball, Mhikitaryan should be dashing full speed between the midfielder and the two defenders but that doesn't happen. Now when Martial goes past two, the third defender comes across to clear. It looks like that he doesn't lift his head up but at the same time, there really is no one available to pass to either.

 

[SachinJ22]

Are we pretending that Martial hasn't played more games than Lingard this season?

No but Martial has been dropped whenever he plays badly and Lingard gets selected for the next match even when he plays badly. Also because many personal issues Martial's confidence is low, getting dropped after bad performances will reduce his confidence more.

 

[sunama]

I still think our team should be built around him.

Dude.
I realise that you are a huge fan of Martial and can see no wrong with what he does, but our club is more important than Martial.
If Martial could guarantee us 25 league goals per season, then sure, we could base our team around him, but while he is scoring 5 league goals per season, he is not the guy you want to base your team on.
Fans need to learn that dribbles do not win you games...goals do. And right now, Martial is not the guy who can get you goals.
The fanboys are hailing attackers who score 5-6 league goals all season.

 

[TheReligion]

Missing from the awards today..

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Missing from the awards today..

Unless there's a good reason for it that's pretty awful from him.

 

[kr0nix]

Unless there's a good reason for it that's pretty awful from him.

Neither were Ibra, Shaw, Young, Rojo and Bailly.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Neither were Ibra, Shaw, Young, Rojo and Bailly.

I think most of those are recovering from injury.

I think it's pretty poor form from all of those that didn't show up if there was no good reason. Even Pogba showed up despite what recently happened to him.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Ominous.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Missing from the awards today..

He was 100% there.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

Rubbish.
I suppose supporting your players, especially the youngsters that have shown exceptional talent/potential, is a foreign concept to some of you? Excuse my conceit, but it is utterly fecking disgraceful the fickleness of some modern football fans.

I don't get fans like you. On one hand you lot argue that Martial is young and will be inconsistent, will have bad games until he has matured up. On the other you lot constantly argue about how he should be a starter and throw a hissy fit in match day every time he doesn't start. If inconsistency is expected from a player like Martial because "he is young and people should wait before judging" why is there such a fuss created when he doesn't start from games constantly?

United, a team spiraling down in mediocrity, cannot afford to play players who aren't up for it yet. So you guys will do well to stop creating a ruckus when Martial doesn't start if you truly believe he is too young to be consistent yet. If you believe he is all that talented and must start every game, then be prepared for people to judge him on the basis of being a regular started for Man Utd. No "he is very young", "he needs time", "it's manager's fault", "it's Ibra's fault", "It's Darmian's fault". Stop calling out fans for saying he is overrated because he is overrated if he is judged on the basis of being worthy of a guaranteed starter for United based on his current form and abilities. If he is to be given time and we are all okay with waiting for the time for him to start playing consistently and show his talent, then fine by me. Let's just use him in lesser games until he has learnt his craft and is ready to take a step up. Just because he is young and talented doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize him, especially when there is such a big movement by his fan boys for him to be the first name on the team sheet.

 

[SteveW]

In our current squad he should start every game. Comfortably better than the other left wing options

 

[laughtersassassin]

He was at the awards. Try not spread shit like this when you're not 100 percent sure as people will now use stuff like this against him

Just like his imaginary bad attitude that is no different to last season

 

[TheReligion]

He was 100% there.

Ah brilliant. I had read he wasn't

 

[jungledrums]

I don't get fans like you. On one hand you lot argue that Martial is young and will be inconsistent, will have bad games until he has matured up. On the other you lot constantly argue about how he should be a starter and throw a hissy fit in match day every time he doesn't start. If inconsistency is expected from a player like Martial because "he is young and people should wait before judging" why is there such a fuss created when he doesn't start from games constantly?

United, a team spiraling down in mediocrity, cannot afford to play players who aren't up for it yet. So you guys will do well to stop creating a ruckus when Martial doesn't start if you truly believe he is too young to be consistent yet. If you believe he is all that talented and must start every game, then be prepared for people to judge him on the basis of being a regular started for Man Utd. No "he is very young", "he needs time", "it's manager's fault", "it's Ibra's fault", "It's Darmian's fault". Stop calling out fans for saying he is overrated because he is overrated if he is judged on the basis of being worthy of a guaranteed starter for United based on his current form and abilities. If he is to be given time and we are all okay with waiting for the time for him to start playing consistently and show his talent, then fine by me. Let's just use him in lesser games until he has learnt his craft and is ready to take a step up. Just because he is young and talented doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize him, especially when there is such a big movement by his fan boys for him to be the first name on the team sheet.

Stopped reading this shite when you decided to lazily lump me in with everyone to suit your petty agenda. Cheers for the essay though.

 

[SachinJ22]

I don't get fans like you. On one hand you lot argue that Martial is young and will be inconsistent, will have bad games until he has matured up. On the other you lot constantly argue about how he should be a starter and throw a hissy fit in match day every time he doesn't start. If inconsistency is expected from a player like Martial because "he is young and people should wait before judging" why is there such a fuss created when he doesn't start from games constantly?

United, a team spiraling down in mediocrity, cannot afford to play players who aren't up for it yet. So you guys will do well to stop creating a ruckus when Martial doesn't start if you truly believe he is too young to be consistent yet. If you believe he is all that talented and must start every game, then be prepared for people to judge him on the basis of being a regular started for Man Utd. No "he is very young", "he needs time", "it's manager's fault", "it's Ibra's fault", "It's Darmian's fault". Stop calling out fans for saying he is overrated because he is overrated if he is judged on the basis of being worthy of a guaranteed starter for United based on his current form and abilities. If he is to be given time and we are all okay with waiting for the time for him to start playing consistently and show his talent, then fine by me. Let's just use him in lesser games until he has learnt his craft and is ready to take a step up. Just because he is young and talented doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize him, especially when there is such a big movement by his fan boys for him to be the first name on the team sheet.

We argue that he should start because other players who are also inconsistent get selected almost every game while Martial gets dropped every time he has a bad game. I can think of only 2 players who are consistent in our team. Has Lingard been consistent? Has Mkhi been consistent? Why does Jose select Mkhi when he can select Young who might work harder than Mkhi? Let me answer that, he selects Mkhi because he is more talented that Young. Martial has more talent that Lingard will ever have but still Lingard gets selected. Maybe you didn't watch United last season where Martial played brilliantly since his first match for us, according to last season he isn't overrated. No one is saying he shouldn't get criticised by the managers or the fans. It's not about throwing a hissy fit in match day threads, it's about Jose trusting and motivating a young player instead of criticizing him in public. Just like you have the right to criticize players other fans have the right to criticize the manager for not selecting him. You are throwing a hissy fit that we are defending a young and talented player. Don't be a hypocrite mate.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

Stopped reading this shite when you decided to lazily lump me in with everyone to suit your petty agenda. Cheers for the essay though.

K. That's a clever thing to say when you don't have anything to argue my points. Well played.

Edit: Regarding my agenda, you will find me among the first ten poster in Martial performance thread everytime he does well showering him with praises. I don't have agendas. I just want what's good for United not what's good for one particular player. Unlike some people on here.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

We argue that he should start because other players who are also inconsistent get selected almost every game while Martial gets dropped every time he has a bad game. I can think of only 2 players who are consistent in our team. Has Lingard been consistent? Has Mkhi been consistent? Why does Jose select Mkhi when he can select Young who might work harder than Mkhi? Let me answer that, he selects Mkhi because he is more talented that Young. Martial has more talent that Lingard will ever have but still Lingard gets selected. Maybe you didn't watch United last season where Martial played brilliantly since his first match for us, according to last season he isn't overrated. No one is saying he shouldn't get criticised by the managers or the fans. It's not about throwing a hissy fit in match day threads, it's about Jose trusting and motivating a young player instead of criticizing him in public. Just like you have the right to criticize players other fans have the right to criticize the manager for not selecting him. You are throwing a hissy fit that we are defending a young and talented player. Don't be a hypocrite mate.

Wrong. Those players get selected because they do better in training and exhibit better understanding of the way manager wants them to play just like Fellaini does and is picked quite often. If Jose solely picked his team on talent, of course, Martial will be selected. But hey, Jose is an experienced manager not a fanboy on redcafe. He picks those who can do what he desires, at least he tries his best with whatever he has got.

You'd do well to go back and read what my argument was about. The discussion didn't involve managers etc. It was simply about someone calling Martial over rated and the person I quoted calling him out to be a poor supporter. So I called him out for wanting Martial to play every game whilst he himself acknowledged that Martial is still very young and needs for us to be patient with him. You ranted on about things that had nothing to do with original argument so I will ignore all that.

Just FYI, I do rate Martial and do wish he would succeed here. I did watch the last season and I was elated about having this talent in United squad. I wasn't convinced of his dribbling style and lack of football IQ and now that it has come to the forefront and causing him problems, I am simply asking for us to use more reliable players until Martial can come into his own.

 

[SachinJ22]

Wrong. Those players get selected because they do better in training and exhibit better understanding of the way manager wants them to play just like Fellaini does and is picked quite often. But don't let logic blind you.

How do you know that they do better in training? Lingard can't even pass a ball properly, I can see how well he trains. Martial is a forward player and he is poor in defence and Jose is asking him to play defensively like a RM, it's like asking Pogba to play as Carrick. Can Pogba play like Carrick? No he can't. Jose can ask him to do better in training and motivate him to play better instead of dropping him and criticising him in public. What is the use of training better when you can't even pass the ball properly and miss easy chances? Lingard is overcompensating for his lacks of skills by just training better and getting selected every game. Average players can just train harder and get selected every game, while game changers sit on the bench because they can't train hard and "put in a shift" like Fellaini and Lingard.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

How do you know that they do better in training? Lingard can't even pass a ball properly, I can see how well he trains. Martial is a forward player and he is poor in defence and Jose is asking him to play defensively like a RM, it's like asking Pogba to play as Carrick. Can Pogba play like Carrick? No he can't. Jose can ask him to do better in training and motivate him to play better instead of dropping him and criticising him in public. What is the use of training better when you can't even pass the ball properly and miss easy chances? Lingard is overcompensating for his lacks of skills by just training better and getting selected every game. Average players can just train harder and get selected every game, while game changers sit on the bench because they can't train hard and "put in a shift" like Fellaini and Lingard.

Edit: You said Mourinho starts Miki because he is more talented. Then you said Lingard starts despite having no passing ability etc. Didn't you just prove my point that you wete wrong with Miki's analysis?

You seem to be stuck on Lingard whilst he doesn't even compete with Martial for a starting spot. Martial doesn't start in favour of Rashford and in the game against Chelsea in favour of Young. Both players exhibit a better ability to follow manager instructions and are quite sincere guys. Lingard competes with Mata and that's another example of talent taking a beating against determination and will to work hard. Hence proves my point. Manager starts the players who are working hard. How is passing related to that? Isn't passing ability supposed to fall under talent? Game changers are of no use when it's only the fans calling them game changers. What game has Martial changed in last 3 games he has started? He has only suffered along with others.

So you basically mean to say Jose should start the season with an aim to please Martial and start him irrespective of what Jose wants from players. You mean to say Jose should adapt his game plan to better suit Martial's ability? You mean you want Mourinho to behave in a manner that you think is better for Martial instead of what Mourinho feels is the right way? You mean you want a manager, up there with the best in his league, to tinker with what he believes will get us playing bettet so that Martial can be more comfortable and develop better? Yep, that's my problem right there with Martial fanboys.

 

[manunited1919]

Martial should spend the summer looking at Aryan Robin videos. He certainly has the talent and the ambition, he just needs to turn on the football intelligence.

 

[Oldham]

I do think Martial gets undeserved criticism on Redcafe. Sure he hasn't had a good season, but the talent is obviously there and hope we'll stick with him.
Looked like the only one who could make anything happen in this awful match against Southampton, although he lost the ball way to much. His defensive play is a lot better this year and tracks back very well. He's basically playing as a winger in a defensive team...

 

[MadMike]

Martial should spend the summer looking at Aryan Robin videos. He certainly has the talent and the ambition, he just needs to turn on the football intelligence.

 

[SachinJ22]

So you basically mean to say Jose should start the season with an aim to please Martial and start him irrespective of what Jose wants from players. You mean to say Jose should adapt his game plan to better suit Martial's ability? You mean you want Mourinho to behave in a manner that you think is better for Martial instead of what Mourinho feels is the right way? You mean you want a manager, up there with the best in his league, to tinker with what he believes will get us playing bettet so that Martial can be more comfortable and develop better? Yep, that's my problem right there with Martial fanboys.

Now don't put words in my mouth. So Jose can please players like Ibra, Pogba, Fellaini and Lingard but he shouldn't motivate and please players like Martial? I am saying Jose should trust in him and give him more chances even if has a few bad games. Yes I want Martial to be more comfortable so that he can develop because he has more talent than Fellaini and Lingard combined. I will give you an example using SAF, he didn't win anything at the beginning when he became Manchester United's manager but he wasn't fired because the people above him trusted him because he had the talent. Even Martial has the talent which he proved last season, you want us to give up on a young and talented player just because he is having a bad season. Yep, that's my problem right there with Martial haters.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

Now don't put words in my mouth. So Jose can please players like Ibra, Pogba, Fellaini and Lingard but he shouldn't motivate and please players like Martial? I am saying Jose should trust in him and give him more chances even if has a few bad games. Yes I want Martial to be more comfortable so that he can develop because he has more talent than Fellaini and Lingard combined. I will give you an example using SAF, he didn't win anything at the beginning when he became Manchester United's manager but he wasn't fired because the people above him trusted him because he had the talent. Even Martial has the talent which he proved last season, you want us to give up on a young and talented player just because he is having a bad season. Yep, that's my problem right there with Martial haters.

Again, what you want to argue about in no way relates to my original argument. No one said lets sell Martial. What I originally said was we either go with the argument that Martial is uberly talented in which case deserves to start every game but at the same time deserves to be heavily criticized when he doesn't put in regular good performances, like top players do. Or we go with the rhetoric that his is young and needs time to mature in which case he shouldn't start every game and fans shouldn't be up in arms if he doesn't start games regularly.

But you look like someone who wants to argue for the sake of it and are adding up stuff about managers, comments, other players yada yada. I get that maybe you enjoy a healthy debate but you will do well to give a quick look at the history of discussion and then jump and try and avoid being overly enthusiastic. Also, quit using other's statement in a sarcastic manner. It shows you're taking everything far too personally to be able to see and contemplate the other side's argument.

 

[Bubz27]

Ominous.

He was 100% there.

The caf in 2 consecutive posts.

 

[SachinJ22]

Again, what you want to argue about in no way relates to my original argument. No one said lets sell Martial. What I originally said was we either go with the argument that Martial is uberly talented in which case deserves to start every game but at the same time deserves to be heavily criticized when he doesn't put in regular good performances, like top players do. Or we go with the rhetoric that his is young and needs time to mature in which case he shouldn't start every game and fans shouldn't be up in arms if he doesn't start games regularly.

But you look like someone who wants to argue for the sake of it and are adding up stuff about managers, comments, other players yada yada. I get that maybe you enjoy a healthy debate but you will do well to give a quick look at the history of discussion and then jump and try and avoid being overly enthusiastic. Also, quit using other's statement in a sarcastic manner. It shows you're taking everything far too personally to be able to see and contemplate the other side's argument.

Few people here have said he is overrated just because he is having one bad season. We are up in arms because of mediocre players starting games every time. I never said that Jose should play Martial in every game of the season, I am saying that he should get a consistent run of games even if he plays badly for a couple of matches without any public criticism from the manager. I am not adding up any stuff. That yada yada which you are talking about has affected Martial's confidence, which in turn has affected his form. So we fans don't have the right to criticize the team selection by the manager? You are criticizing Martial but we shouldn't criticize the manager's team selection? If I am talking it personally I would have commented about something personal not use sarcasm. Answer me this, why was Martial playing so well last season? Why is he struggling this season? Ibra and Pogba had few bad games during the beginning of the season, Lingard and Fellaini had few bad games. Were any of these players criticised in public? Were any of the players dropped after bad performances? Were any other young players criticised by their managers? If I am being overly enthusiastic, then you are being overly pessimistic.

 

[GM K]

No but Martial has been dropped whenever he plays badly and Lingard gets selected for the next match even when he plays badly. Also because many personal issues Martial's confidence is low, getting dropped after bad performances will reduce his confidence more.

The thing is, you and I know very little about what goes on in training and in the dressing room. Very easy to blame the manager (or the player, I should add).

 

[dannyrhinos89]

What does he actually offer?

Seriously we looked visibly worse when he came on and absolutely nothing he does works it's not as if it's a one off situation either.

How is he any different from Memphis who was slated regularly and moved on.

 

[11101]

He still has 'it' obviously as every now and then he ghosts past 2 or 3 players like they weren't even there. Last year wasn't just some fluke like Januzaj, he has shown glimpses this year too. He just seems mentally not on the pace of the game. He needs a good summer break, a proper pre season and lets see where he's at next year.

 

[jungledrums]

What does he actually offer?

Seriously we looked visibly worse when he came on and absolutely nothing he does works it's not as if it's a one off situation either.

How is he any different from Memphis who was slated regularly and moved on.

Well, he's got a top class season in his belt, something that Memphis does not have (at the top level). Also, Martial's season, 8 goals and 8 assists, is still more productive than Memphis ever was.
Don't mistake this for blind praise of Martial: he's been shite and it's painful because I love him so much. But where it was probably a bridge too far for Memphis playing at United, Martial does still look to have the potential to make it with us.

 

[M Bison]

He still has 'it' obviously as every now and then he ghosts past 2 or 3 players like they weren't even there. Last year wasn't just some fluke like Januzaj, he has shown glimpses this year too. He just seems mentally not on the pace of the game. He needs a good summer break, a proper pre season and lets see where he's at next year.

I was actually going to post the opposite, I've seen very little this season to suggest he's ever going to make it big and his current situation is reminiscent of Adnan.

Do agree with your last sentence though and hopefully a good break will set him a good footing for next season.

 

[Icemav]

Hope he kicks on next season. Because at the moment he just isnt good enough. And he will be moved on and replaced if he doesnt step up, same as others.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Worried about his future to be honest. I could see him potentially leaving in the summer, but either way if he doesn't kick on next season he'll be gone the summer after. Terribly disappointing season, I honestly thought he'd be a machine this year.

 

[Ephrem]

What does he actually offer?

Seriously we looked visibly worse when he came on and absolutely nothing he does works it's not as if it's a one off situation either.

How is he any different from Memphis who was slated regularly and moved on.[/QUOTE]

How about watching last season ?

 

[Sylar]

He showed last year what he can offer. I still think his best moments for us have been when hes been up front. Or part of a front three linking with top man (rather than wide in what looks like a middle 5).

 

[Adisa]

How is he different from Memphis?
Is this a serious question?
he has credit in the bank thats's how.
I've slated him as much as anyone this season, but I acknowledge it's not unusual for a young player to struggle after his second season. He's still 21.

 

[Icemav]

How is he different from Memphis?
Is this a serious question?
he has credit in the bank thats's how.
I've slated him as much as anyone this season, but I acknowledge it's not unusual for a young player to struggle after his second season. He's still 21.

The question should be how is he different to Adnan?

The fact that he and Rooney looked poor compared to our teenage debutantes is concerning. There is no hiding from this.

 

[Ixion]

The question should be how is he different to Adnan?

The fact that he and Rooney looked poor compared to our teenage debutantes is concerning. There is no hiding from this.

Comparing him to Adnan is as ridiculous as comparing him to Memphis.

Come back when either of them has had a season like Martial last year.