Very much agree with most of this except for the last part probably. Rooney used to come deeper in order to spray the ball around and find through balls. Even positionally, he never really played so aggressively in the opposition box in terms of his positioning. Alliis not like that. His biggest asset is his movement in the final third.
Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder playing in Turkey
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He's not overrated as a footballer but he's an overrated if he's being compared to Gerrard & Scholes or even Carrick. Alli has no ability to control the midfield like those three english midfielder. His biggest asset obviously in his attacking attributes like scoring goals, movement, first touch, skills to beat his men and nutmeg. More like England best young "attacking midfielder". Not best young "midfielder".
Its amazing really
Assisted both of Spurs goals so far tonight.
He's playing very well. Anyone who describes him and Lingard being on the same level is simply deluded. He is severely underrated in this thread.
He might be but he's been really poor this season so far. Also I don't look at him like a midfielder really. More a second striker who can be effective but not like really talented or something. Better then Lingard obviously, but was also really overrated after his first 2 seasons.
He is still just a 21 year old kid. He has had a poor start to the season but its to be expected as he is still learning his trade. He is a massive talent.
Oh yeah, for sure. Should be pointed out that he's had a poor start to the season and needs to get back on track as many people just see the odd goal here and there and assume same as always, but I feel like everyone has the wrong image of Alli. He's a #10 and should be judged as one. Big potential, but I don't think he is in the elite in terms of potential. More just a player that suits Pochettino for the role he needs and has a good understanding in the system. Don't think he is at the level of Martial/Mbappe/Dembele/Asensio in terms of talent, but still has the potential to be a top player none the less.
He's contributied a lot more than Martial in fairness so its a tricky one to say he's not in Martial's league.
Martial is way more talented and we're talking potential here. It's not about how productive they've been. It's what they're capable of doing at their very best, and that's what puts Martial up there with any of the young players.
Also if you are looking at current level, their first seasons were fairly similar, Alli had a much better year last year (no surprise in a settled team with a starting role compared to Martial) and this season Martial has been way above Alli. Not that it's close talent wise, but it's not like Martial hasn't shown it quite a bit during his time here.
Agreed, I think he should be considered in the same bracket as any of the best young players in Europe.
Which means in 2 CL apps against Madrid and Dortmund he has 2 goals and 2 assists. Not too shabby.
I honestly cant agree with that statement - its all a matter of opinion but Martial may have strengths that Alli doesn't have but in the same instance Alli has strengths that Martial doesn't have(or at least not in the same league). Both are equally talented imho.
He's both underrated and overrated. It all depends on the context.
He played well tonight. When he plays well he can register goals and assists because his movement is good, but he's never going to be a really top player. He doesn't have the ability on the ball to be a really top player and its not something you can really teach so despite his young age I don't see much room for improvement.
Thomas Muller says hello.
Muller should absolutely be his role model but he's a striker really, maybe second striker. Very very few people who lack the on the ball ability like Muller actually get to the very top like Muller has. Time will tell.
I agree - I think Muller is a fabulous player and I do see some similarities in Alli's game particularly in his movement which is what imo makes him a special talent.
Why does he need to have great ability on the ball to be a top player? Did Lampard/Gerrard have great ability on the ball? They still had amazing careers with goal scoring and that is what Dele Alli will likely become if he keeps on progressing.
P.S - He is actually more talented on the ball than Gerrard or Lampard.
I still wouldn't put him in a bracket with Martial etc. He's got some talent Ali but I certainly wouldn't call him a special talent.
Well its all about opinions and of course I have a bias naturally just as you may have towards Martial (who I also rate highly).
Gerrard and Lampard were made to look a lot better than they were because they had team mates with incredible amounts of quality. They were overrated players for sure, built up by the English media like all England national players are.
I agree with that 100%
Where did he play tonight? Formation looked similar to the set ul Sprus had vs Liverpool with Winks, Eriksen and Alli playing as a midfield 3.
I didn't rate Lampard's all-round game too much, good player but all round game never stood out as something special or 'one of the best'.
Gerrard on the other-hand was so dynamic and took games by the scruff of the neck, Roy of the Rovers stuff at times and he carried Liverpool for a number of years and was truly was one of the best midfielders in world back in his day.
People who say otherwise in my opinion are the United fans who refuse to accept a Liverpool player is/was 'good' or have an issue with anything English being good (which looks like it may be the case looking at your post) or under 25 and never saw all Gerrard's career, only the back end.
Yes, it's one thing to not rate him as highly as medias do but another one to underrate him that stupidly.
I understand that the system Spurs play helps him, but he is still a very talented player.
I think its only Utd fans who think this. Martial clearly has a lot of ability and potential, but thats all it is, potential. He has yet to deliver consistently, and has even struggled to get in our starting 11 on a consistent basis. Alli has delivered and the stats shown earlier show a very good contribution in what is a very good spurs side.
I hope Martial does become a top player but at the moment he's trailing Alli in my view.
Martial far greater dribbling ability than Alli but then so does Ben Arfa.
Tbh Ben Arfa could have been great player if not for his shit mentality.
How can one say Martial is way more talented than Alli. I love him and hope he becomes a world class footballer, but for me, Alli is better atm. He has done it more in the big games.
From Alli vs Lingard to Alli vs Martial. I see Mr Punchable Face is slowly climbing up the ladder.
he's quality. Pretty sure we'd be babbling on about him here like we do about Martial if he was playing for us. Probably doesn't help that he's a little prick too.
We will end with Alli vs Godzilla because of some WC magics from him next Summer
Because some people think talent just means dribbling.
At the moment he is probably behind in terms if current ability but if you ask fans across the world and general football fans, im sure most would say Martial is ahead of Alli and that Martial is our most promising young player. Talk to english priple and yiu get a different answer understandably.
Alli has potential of course, but hes more along the lines of Muller. Martial has the ability to surpass what Muller ever reached. Also on Muller - another one who has always been overrated. Peiple viee him as a world class player because of his stats at international level when hes never been an automatic starter for Bayern. Always rotating in and out. Getting plenty of appearances of course, but never world class because he never had that natural talent.
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How can people not understand that a players potential has very little to do with the consistent level they've shown until now? Youre conpletely ignoring the state of the two teams and their roles in those teams during that time as well. "He has done it more in the big games". By that logic, rooney was a more promising young player then Ronaldo was, which is obviously wrong as Ronaldo had way more talent and natural ability. Rooney was better as a u21 player but ronaldo always had more potential. Same case comparing martial to any of the english young players like alli or rashford. Rashford might be marginally ahead in Mourinho's eyes because of tactical preferences, alli having a good understaning with Poch and the olayers around him, in no way does that mean he has more potential as an individual player.
Martial is a prettier player to watch. That's why fans will have him above Alli. Alli is better right now, potential wise I have him edging it as well. He looks the more rounded player.
Muller was a big player for Bayern. He has been struggling lately but he was playing at a very high level. It could easily be argued that he was at world class level.
This is based on nothing though, you could say someone who plays pub football has potential but unless they do it when it counts, consistently and at the highest level it means very little.
Based on whats actually happened rather than what might or might not, Martial has some catching up to do on Alli.
Hopefully Martial will hit the heights we're expecting of him but we need to see a hell of a lot more before we can suggest he will surpass Alli, never mind achieving more than Muller, a player who has won it all.
Martial starts from the bench majority of times for Manchester United, only just got recalled in the France squad recently for a friendly.
How anyone can say he’s better than Dele Alli is beyond me, more talented is up for debate, depends what you look for in talent and if you don’t ignore other aspects of football. If you do that, not sure how people can put Martial ahead of Alli, when Martial isn’t even ahead of his field (in terms of talent) of the skill/speed merchants, whereas Dele Alli is at the forefront of his area of expertise.
Ravel Morrison is the most talented youngster I’ve ever seen at Manchester United, look where this talent got him!
Fact of the matter his Dele Alli is doing the business, scored 20+ goals from midfield 2017, put teams like Real Madrid to the sword whereas (as said) Martial rarely starts and looks half-arsed most of the time he plays.
Martial is a great talent for sure, but if you want to talk about ‘overrated’, no player is more overrated than Martial on the RedCafe.
How anyone can say he’s better than Dele Alli is beyond me, more talented is up for debate, depends what you look for in talent and if you don’t ignore other aspects of football. If you do that, not sure how people can put Martial ahead of Alli, when Martial isn’t even ahead of his field (in terms of talent) of the skill/speed merchants, whereas Dele Alli is at the forefront of his area of expertise.
Ravel Morrison is the most talented youngster I’ve ever seen at Manchester United, look where this talent got him!
Fact of the matter his Dele Alli is doing the business, scored 20+ goals from midfield 2017, put teams like Real Madrid to the sword whereas (as said) Martial rarely starts and looks half-arsed most of the time he plays.
Martial is a great talent for sure, but if you want to talk about ‘overrated’, no player is more overrated than Martial on the RedCafe.