Our wingers in the big games

[luke511]

From kick off it seems like they're under instruction not to get in behind the fullbacks. Jose probably sees it as a defensive vulnerability, but it makes it a lot easier for the opposition to cage us in when our wingers are in a wingback position and Lukaku is against 2 cbs on his own. It completely kills off our chances to counter when they are so deep and it's painfully obvious this is the case, which makes me think our gameplan is to solely rely on set pieces for a goal when it's 0-0.

For me this negative approach with our wingers is the main reason why we're playing so badly in the big games, the annoying thing is Jose hasn't shown any sort of flexibility with it. It took a goal and a full half of domination for us to push our wingers up the field, why not set up like that from the start?

 

[Son Of Sam]

From kick off it seems like they're under instruction not to get in behind the fullbacks. Jose probably sees it as a defensive vulnerability, but it makes it a lot easier for the opposition to cage us in when our wingers are in a wingback position and Lukaku is against 2 cbs on his own. It completely kills off our chances to counter when they are so deep and it's painfully obvious this is the case, which makes me think our gameplan is to solely rely on set pieces for a goal when it's 0-0.

For me this negative approach with our wingers is the main reason why we're playing so badly in the big games, the annoying thing is Jose hasn't shown any sort of flexibility with it. It took a goal and a full half of domination for us to push our wingers up the field, why not set up like that from the start?

Whenever our players fail to do the basic things in football - the fault is Jose’s. This kind of thinking is flawed.

I am sure you think our atrocious passing was also Jose’s instruction. Jose also told his players not to keep any sort of possession, they should just be hoofing it to row Z.

Until you realise we don’t really have technical players in the team, you will forever be chasing ghosts with threads like this.

There was no negative approach or any negative instruction to the wingers. City players worked harder in recovering the ball especially in the first half.

Sane, Sterling, Jesus were hunting in packs to help out their full backs whenever we had the ball and they kept possession much better.

Stop expecting a black/white TV to show you HD pictures. We have a lot of deadweights in the squad and that is why it seemed they were given instructions not to attack with vigour.

 

[ash_86]

What wingers? None of Martial, Lukaku, Lingard, Rashford are wingers.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

What wingers? None of Martial, Lukaku, Lingard, Rashford are wingers.

/thread

 

[Skills]

You mean full backs, as in their main objective is to track opposition full backs in big games.

 

[luke511]

Whenever our players fail to do the basic things in football - the fault is Jose’s. This kind of thinking is flawed.

I am sure you think our atrocious passing was also Jose’s instruction. Jose also told his players not to keep any sort of possession, they should just be hoofing it to row Z.

Until you realise we don’t really have technical players in the team, you will forever be chasing ghosts with threads like this.

There was no negative approach or any negative instruction to the wingers. City players worked harder in recovering the ball especially in the first half.

Sane, Sterling, Jesus were hunting in packs to help out their full backs whenever we had the ball and they kept possession much better.

Stop expecting a black/white TV to show you HD pictures. We have a lot of deadweights in the squad and that is why it seemed they were given instructions not to attack with vigour.

I completely agree with you mate, we don't have enough technical talent going forward to compete with the best teams. The thing is we only struggle to string a pass together and get out our own half when we play against the likes of city, and I personally think that boils down to the lack of options available on the break which is down to Mourinho's set up. Our flank players are being instructed to defend first rather than attack and that has a massive effect on how we play. If you look at the positions of the city fullbacks all the way up to their first goal, it's absolute crime they were allowed that much freedom to push up. I'm sorry but Mourinho is as much to blame as the players for our shit record against the best sides.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

From kick off it seems like they're under instruction not to get in behind the fullbacks. Jose probably sees it as a defensive vulnerability, but it makes it a lot easier for the opposition to cage us in when our wingers are in a wingback position and Lukaku is against 2 cbs on his own. It completely kills off our chances to counter when they are so deep and it's painfully obvious this is the case, which makes me think our gameplan is to solely rely on set pieces for a goal when it's 0-0.

For me this negative approach with our wingers is the main reason why we're playing so badly in the big games, the annoying thing is Jose hasn't shown any sort of flexibility with it. It took a goal and a full half of domination for us to push our wingers up the field, why not set up like that from the start?

It’s been there since last season, it’s not in every game but at times they do certainly seem to have restrictions on them, it feels the same with the fullbacks. Yesterday it was certainly part of the game plan to have the, play like that.
It’s understandable for yesterday as there isn’t the quality in midfield but to me that’s also part of the set up. They never seem to look or make the offer for one another, it’s always just put it forward. Matic and Herrera are better than that but there are no patterns to our play other than react to whatever.

There is truth that Pogba vastly improves the teams attacking play as he can hold the ball and drive it forward and play but then he does leave us defensively weak and open more than we really should be and for me a lot of the issues we have are solved with 352/343 or 433.

 

[Ikon]

I am sure you think our atrocious passing was also Jose’s instruction. Jose also told his players not to keep any sort of possession, they should just be hoofing it to row Z.

Until you realise we don’t really have technical players in the team, you will forever be chasing ghosts with threads like this.
Stop expecting a black/white TV to show you HD pictures. We have a lot of deadweights in the squad and that is why it seemed they were given instructions not to attack with vigour.

^^Much sense in this post....^^
City's players are simply so much more comfortable on the ball than ours are, added to that, Sane & Sterling look more at ease with dropping in to assist midfield than Martial & Rashford do.

It means that City not only had more ability on the ball but they also had superior numbers, its a win win situation for them.
When City have a cluster of 5 players around our midfield 3 its clear that they will always have superior possession and our players will be forced into knocking the ball long to get out of that area.

 

[Roberto420]

^^Much sense in this post....^^
City's players are simply so much more comfortable on the ball than ours are, added to that, Sane & Sterling look more at ease with dropping in to assist midfield than Martial & Rashford do.

It means that City not only had more ability on the ball but they also had superior numbers, its a win win situation for them.
When City have a cluster of 5 players around our midfield 3 its clear that they will always have superior possession and our players will be forced into knocking the ball long to get out of that area.

Yeah too many dead weights one that cost 75million another couldn't even make the match day squad that Mourinho bought but yeah we must not criticise Mourinho.

 

[Bestietom]

Tactically Pep outwitted Mourinho in that he had Sterling and Sane making up a 5 in midfield when necessary. Mourinho should have counteracted this by allowing Rashford and Martial do the same.

 

[Smores]

Tactically Pep outwitted Mourinho in that he had Sterling and Sane making up a 5 in midfield when necessary. Mourinho should have counteracted this by allowing Rashford and Martial do the same.

The OP is absolute drivel but i agree with this. Rashford wouldn't be able to any how but i wish Martial had come more central at times to make up the numbers like Sterling did.

Sane and Sterling were fantastic against us, they even got back and defended better than ours but to be fair they're wingers and not forwards and they were supported by Silva and KdB.

 

[Charles Miller]

Martial and Rashford are more wide stiker than wingers.
When Gabriel Jesus is playing in the wing he looks half the player too.
Mourinhos tactics probably would work better with traditional/not inverted wingers these days to provide crosses to the target ST.

 

[Bwuk]

We don't have any wingers and our full backs aren't good enough to provide width and a threat for the side on a consistent basis.

 

[peridigm]

What wingers? None of Martial, Lukaku, Lingard, Rashford are wingers.

Include Mata as well. Furthermore, our only true wingers are playing as our fullbacks.

 

[luke511]

The OP is absolute drivel but i agree with this. Rashford wouldn't be able to any how but i wish Martial had come more central at times to make up the numbers like Sterling did.

Sane and Sterling were fantastic against us, they even got back and defended better than ours but to be fair they're wingers and not forwards and they were supported by Silva and KdB.

Please go into detail what I said in the OP that made it drivel?

 

[Hoof the ball]

Can we agree that one of the fundamental truths of the way we play is that due to our wide men dropping so deep it means they have more pitch to cover in front of them, effort wise and opposition player-wise, and therefore inevitably results in fewer successful passes?

 

[Roeindo]

I think post SAF, we dont play with winger again..

If there's a team plays with "false" 9, here in manchester united, we play with "false" wingers

 

[Oooh_aaah_cantona]

I think post SAF, we dont play with winger again..

If there's a team plays with "false" 9, here in manchester united, we play with "false" wingers

Also false striker, and false playmaker

 

[wolvored]

Its both really.
Mourinho sets the team up to defend against the big teams and try to hit on the break. This means the front players start way back as they have to defend against virtually the whole team of opponants. If they were further up the field when we havent the ball the oppos defence wouldnt be able to attack on mass.
We also havent enough star quality players to play this role either. Pogbas the best and when he doesnt play, it clearly shows how weak we are. Teams have studied how we played the first few games this season and know how to cut Lukakus chances down, and thats why he has come to a standstill.

 

[JPRouve]

Can we agree that one of the fundamental truths of the way we play is that due to our wide men dropping so deep it means they have more pitch to cover in front of them, effort wise and opposition player-wise, and therefore inevitably results in fewer successful passes?

I would say, no. The problem isn't that the entire block plays deep but that due to a lack of technical ability and tactical nous, our back four is unable to move the ball in a way that allows the entire block to move forward when we possess the ball deep into our camp. If I'm not mistaken the way Matic has to play is symptomatic of that problem, I'm under the impression that too often he has to take the ball from the defenders feet instead of receiving it a dozen of meters higher.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with our attackers, the problem is that our back four isn't good enough under pressure, they lack almost all the qualities required at the exception of Lindelöf.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Part of the problem innit. Don't have any 'real' wingers. Martial and Rashford are both pacey attackers, but more general attackers than wingers. A Robben / Ribery type player (albeit younger than them) would make a big difference I think.

 

[Marcky411]

Include Mata as well. Furthermore, our only true wingers are playing as our fullbacks.

Spot on and of the 2 only one is prepared to try and put in a decent cross or take on his man.

 

[luke511]

When I said wingers I was referring to Martial and Rashford, got my definitions a bit wrong but hopefully you understood what I meant.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Havent really got specialist wingers. Also, doesnt help when their job is to play like a full back for most of the. game

We should just continue to play 532 or a formation that doesnt require wingers until we get the quality needed.

 

[Sing you a song]

Part of the problem innit. Don't have any 'real' wingers. Martial and Rashford are both pacey attackers, but more general attackers than wingers. A Robben / Ribery type player (albeit younger than them) would make a big difference I think.

I would get Mahrez in January , watched the highlights of Leicester game last night and he's looking sharp shouldn't be too expensive and not Euro cup tied

 

[KristianMackle]

Valencia was the last true winger we really had but my biggest gripe is why arent we playing both Martial and Rashford starting? City go with Sane and Sterling and that gives them pace, width and ability to change their tactics when teams sit back deep. So they can play out wide and stretch the opposition or hurt you with pace through the middle with Sterling cutting in.

 

[TRA007]

Just another thread moaning about our players, since when did having 11 galacticos in the team become the only way to play attacking football or become a better/ watchable team?

Jose has had more than half a year with the team now, yet we look painfully slow in our build up, conservative in passing and low on intensity. A manager's job is not just to buy and select good attacking players and rely on individual brilliance game in, game out. One has to improve the players you have to obtain better output as well...