442

[charlenefan]

Another formation thread but 442 is having a revival in European football, Leicester won't a league playing it, Real Madrid are playing it, Barcelona are playing it, Juventus in the second half tonight, Fergie would be in his element if he was still in charge. Could it be something we take on?

---------------De Gea---------------
Valencia--Bailly--Smalling--New LB
Lingard--New CM--Matic--Pogba
--------Lukaku------Sanchez--------

What do you think CAF?

 

[SportingCP96]

Another formation thread but 442 is having a revival in European football, Leicester won't a league playing it, Real Madrid are playing it, Barcelona are playing it, Juventus in the second half tonight, Fergie would be in his element if he was still in charge. Could it be something we take on?

---------------De Gea---------------
Valencia--Bailly--Smalling--New LB
Lingard--New CM--Matic--Pogba
--------Lukaku------Sanchez--------

What do you think CAF?

I would put Rashford up front with Lukaku . I would not have Pogba in the LM position he would be worthless there I would play him at the CM position next to Matic. Then probably need two real "wingers" to play at the LM and RM position. I would also sign Alex Telles for the LB position.

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

You should see what happened when Juventus switched to 4-4-2 around 60 minutes into their game against Tottenham tonight. The Spurs players suddenly looked like they were playing an alien species!

But, formations are wildly overrated by a generation brought up on football management games. The best formation is always the one that suits the players to be effective as a team and win games. Always has done and always will do.

 

[charlenefan]

But, formations are wildly overrated by a generation brought up on football management games. The best formation is always the one that suits the players to be effective as a team and win games. Always has done and always will do.

Ignoring your passive aggressive hipster response do you think 442 would suit our players as that was kind of the point of my post

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Don't think we have the wingers for it. Lingard would not be efficient on the right.

 

[HankHill]

A formation is never truly en vogue until Wenger copies it poorly six months after everyone else.

Let's see how this pans out.

 

[xMaravilla]

Every formation with two strikers is dangerous in my opinion. With Lukaku on the right and Rashford/Martial on the left, we could beat anyone!!

 

[Oaencha]

Another formation thread but 442 is having a revival in European football, Leicester won't a league playing it, Real Madrid are playing it, Barcelona are playing it, Juventus in the second half tonight, Fergie would be in his element if he was still in charge. Could it be something we take on?

---------------De Gea---------------
Valencia--Bailly--Smalling--New LB
Lingard--New CM--Matic--Pogba
--------Lukaku------Sanchez--------

What do you think CAF?

We have no natural wingers and no-one who can cross the ball so I can’t see the point. Especially seeing as you have Pogba and Lingard on the flanks as the example.

 

[charlenefan]

We have no natural wingers and no-one who can cross the ball so I can’t see the point. Especially seeing as you have Pogba and Lingard on the flanks as the example.

Madrid and Barca have no wingers when they play it

 

[SportingCP96]

Madrid and Barca have no wingers when they play it

Pogba on the left and Lingard on the right is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[charlenefan]

Pogba on the left and Lingard on the right is a disaster waiting to happen.

Why?

 

[coolredwine]

For us, now, maybe. Pogba can be an inside left, with Sanchez-Shaw providing width if and when needed.

 

[charlenefan]

For us, now, maybe. Pogba can be an inside left, with Sanchez-Shaw providing width if and when needed.

Is how I see it working, it would be a narrow midfield yes with Pogba and Lingard and we'd need the width from Valencia and a LB (Sandro) and maybe even have Sanchez pulling wide left and Lukaku pulling onto the right as both do already

 

[Giant Midget]

Is how I see it working, it would be a narrow midfield yes with Pogba and Lingard and we'd need the width from Valencia and a LB (Sandro) and maybe even have Sanchez pulling wide left and Lukaku pulling onto the right as both do already

That’s not entirely different than the 4-2-2-2 we played against Chelsea

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

Ignoring your passive aggressive hipster response do you think 442 would suit our players as that was kind of the point of my post

It’s an observation from a middle-aged human that’s watched football for over 40 years, not a ‘passive-aggressive hipster response’.

Don’t be insecure if you wish to instigate discussions on public forums (because, maybe, just maybe, there’ll be some people that will not agree with your premises about anything and everything, so be respectful and consider all views before making any considered judgements), but, you did ask a question, so my meaningless thoughts are:

We don’t have one proper winger at United so can’t play a 4-4-2 as I would see it (narrow diamond could work, but I don’t see it).
We don’t really have any natural wide forwards either (I think Sánchez is the nearest but he’s someone that likes to come into more central positions), so I’m not sure 4-3-3 suits our attacking players as well as it could.

Our real problem (apart from the defence, especially full-backs) is how slowly we move the ball forward in general play and the confidence in making off-the-ball runs and the belief we have players that can make incisive passes under pressure (unless we’re counter-attacking or hoofing it aimlessly).

Mourinho is too risk-averse to let the players express themselves freely and that’s a far bigger problem than any formation, in my view (see how Allegri had Pogba playing in his last season at Juventus).

However, the better players we get, I promise you the better the formation will look...it’s always been that way. Formations come and go - good players will play well as long as the team is balanced. That’s where we need United to get to (I think we’re still 3/4 very good players away from challenging the best teams in Europe, but that’s another discussion for another time).

 

[SportingCP96]

Why?

If you want to get the best out of your players Pogba and Matic at the CM position is your best option you then need to sign 2 true Right and left wing players along with a solid LB ( Ales Telles would fit like a glove). Givin the players in the current squad the 2 strikers in the team should be Rasford and Lukaku.

 

[charlenefan]

If you want to get the best out of your players Pogba and Matic at the CM position is your best option you then need to sign 2 true Right and left wing players along with a solid LB ( Ales Telles would fit like a glove). Givin the players in the current squad the 2 strikers in the team should be Rasford and Lukaku.

This season has proved Matic and Pogba alone in midfield doesn't work

 

[SportingCP96]

This season has proved Matic and Pogba alone in midfield doesn't work

if you are doing a 442 Pogba gas to play at CM he is too good to be waisted out wide despite how average his season has been.

 

[Drz]

Another formation thread but 442 is having a revival in European football, Leicester won't a league playing it, Real Madrid are playing it, Barcelona are playing it, Juventus in the second half tonight, Fergie would be in his element if he was still in charge. Could it be something we take on?

---------------De Gea---------------
Valencia--Bailly--Smalling--New LB
Lingard--New CM--Matic--Pogba
--------Lukaku------Sanchez--------

What do you think CAF?

You beat me to it.

But:
---------------De Gea---------------
Valencia--Bailly--Rojo-- Shaw
Lingard--Pogba--Matic--Martial
--------Lukaku------Rashford--------

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

Diamond would be the obvious way to go to get the most out of our players. Would need Lukaku and Martial to work hard and occasionally drift out wide to help out and to give Sanchez space in the middle.

De Gea
Valencia Bailly Smalling Shaw
Matic
McTominay Pogba
Sanchez
Lukaku Martial​

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't think Lingard is as good out wide.

And I don't know if I'd prefer Pogba out wide either. I think his poor defensive work at times could be even more exploited from wide areas.

It does play Sanchez in his best position though.

 

[charlenefan]

if you are doing a 442 Pogba gas to play at CM he is too good to be waisted out wide despite how average his season has been.

Wasted out wide? I'd argue it'll give him the freedom he craves

 

[SportingCP96]

His best years at Juve were all at CM.

 

[Android1974]

It's funny, beginning of pre-season, when Mourinho was apparently chasing Griezmann, I've mentioned a few times it would only make sense in a 4-4-2, but people were dismissing it completely then.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

It's funny, beginning of pre-season, when Mourinho was apparently chasing Griezmann, I've mentioned a few times it would only make sense in a 4-4-2, but people were dismissing it completely then.

If Mourinho bought Griezmann, we'd continue to play a 4231, with Griezmann as a 10, where he plays for France.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I'd very much to see that, with a few upgrades.

Right midfield - With Pogba coming in off the wing, then we'd need a play on the right to keep the width. Someone like Valencia (2010) or Nani.

Centre midfield - All action midfielder. Someone in the mould of Vidal, Nainggolan, Matuidi, etc.

 

[Android1974]

If Mourinho bought Griezmann, we'd continue to play a 4231, with Griezmann as a 10, where he plays for France.

Or a rightwing wide-forward. Considering our other personnel, he would've fit much better than Sánchez.

 

[Jib]

His best years at Juve were all at CM.

He never played in a midfield 2 with Juventus...

And his best season at Juventus was 2015-2016 and he was more a LM than a CM...

 

[SportingCP96]

He never played in a midfield 2 with Juventus...

And his best season at Juventus was 2015-2016 and he was more a LM than a CM...

It was midfield 3 with asamoah playing on the left side to be exact.

 

[Jib]

It was midfield 3 with asamoah playing on the left side to be exact.

It was false 352, very different of the Conte's 352.

In his best season at Juve ( 2015-2016 ) Pogba played with 2 CM behind him ( Marchisio/Khedira or Hernanes/Lemina ) and 2 strikers in front of him ( Manzukic/Dybala or Morata/Zaza )

Asamoah was on the bench when he was fit because Evra/Sandro were better than him... and Cuadrado played on the right wing ( sometimes Lichtsteiner ).

Pogba was really free, he played in an unique role ( mix of LM/AM ) and Roberto Peyrera was his backup...

And the second system was the 442 with Pogba as true LM

 

[Silas]

Barely any different to a 433. Pogba would come inside more often than not and Lingard would push forward to link up with Lukaku and Sanchez, instead of sticking to the right wing.

 

[charlenefan]

It’s an observation from a middle-aged human that’s watched football for over 40 years, not a ‘passive-aggressive hipster response’.

Don’t be insecure if you wish to instigate discussions on public forums (because, maybe, just maybe, there’ll be some people that will not agree with your premises about anything and everything, so be respectful and consider all views before making any considered judgements), but, you did ask a question, so my meaningless thoughts are:

Maybe take some advice yourself and try to be just a tiny bit less patronizing when speaking to others

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Another formation thread but 442 is having a revival in European football, Leicester won't a league playing it, Real Madrid are playing it, Barcelona are playing it, Juventus in the second half tonight, Fergie would be in his element if he was still in charge. Could it be something we take on?

---------------De Gea---------------
Valencia--Bailly--Smalling--New LB
Lingard--New CM--Matic--Pogba
--------Lukaku------Sanchez--------

What do you think CAF?

A variation of this is the 4-2-2-2, and defensive 4-4-2 with 2 CDM.

If just purely flat 4-4-2,
EPL imo is a no go, but CL games can be effective against some sides. Could be a useful formation with the right settings i.e. systematic roles for each player.

A big problem is for me we don't have the right combination of good form and available players for an effective starting 11 for this formation.
(Lingard and Sanchez tend to cut in and play narrow where they could make best damage. Lingard is not impressive as a side midfielder. For the side, only 3 players are on paper are suitable; Pogba, Mata and Rashford. The option is very limited. Martial is similar a bit to Ronaldo here, eventhough he improves his defending, Martial is a far better LW or LAM than an LM. The fullbacks are very important here, as they need to overlap and stretch the wings always, which we doesn't have much option. Pogba works best with a natural attacking LB so Shaw in this case. Problem would be having our LB exposed defensively on the left. Mata and Valencia is fine on the right. Herrera and Matic combo on the centre should work. Defensively especially the side would be more exposed, so need two excellent on form CBs that can sweep left and right, Bailly to cover Valencia, and Rojo to cover Shaw. Sanchez would attack the left and drop deep behind Lukaku like what Rooney often do playing with RVN/Saha. Lukaku would attack both centrally and the RW and be the target man.)

Probably a better version than those:

---------------De Gea--------------
Valencia---Bailly---Rojo---Shaw-
Mata---Herrera---Matic---Pogba
--------Lukaku-----Sanchez-----

Subs: Romero, CB??, Young, CM??, SM??, Rashford, Martial.

 

[SportingCP96]

It was false 352, very different of the Conte's 352.

In his best season at Juve ( 2015-2016 ) Pogba played with 2 CM behind him ( Marchisio/Khedira or Hernanes/Lemina ) and 2 strikers in front of him ( Manzukic/Dybala or Morata/Zaza )

Asamoah was on the bench when he was fit because Evra/Sandro were better than him... and Cuadrado played on the right wing ( sometimes Lichtsteiner ).

Pogba was really free, he played in an unique role ( mix of LM/AM ) and Roberto Peyrera was his backup...

And the second system was the 442 with Pogba as true LM

I got it confused with the 2014-2015 season my apologies mate.

 

[Bwuk]

I think our lack of full backs hurt any formation.

The best sides in the world at the moment all have their full backs provide width and allow the rest of the players to come inside.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

A 4-4-2 needs proper wingers, Sharpe, Giggs, Beckham, Ronaldo, Kanchelskis etc. And you're offering up Lingard and Pogba? feck me.

I'd like a proper winger to be added the team at some point soon, and then the 4-4-2 will at least become an option for us, but right now it absolutely isn't.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Or a rightwing wide-forward. Considering our other personnel, he would've fit much better than Sánchez.

Be just like Mourinho to do that, but he's not great there.

Same with Dybala as you would have seen yesterday if you watched Spurs vs Juve. Started as a right wide forward and was very ineffective. As soon as he moved to the 10 position he came alive and bagged a goal.

Going forward, I would really like us to try a 442/4411.

That said, I've probably said that about most formations.

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

Maybe take some advice yourself and try to be just a tiny bit less patronizing when speaking to others

Oh, the irony. Your two replies have been ad hominem attacks without any response to my argument about how formations are overrated and it’s more to do with the quality of players.

Carl Sagan once said it is through reasoned and respectful discourse that we can learn together as a United (excuse the pun) species and explore the universe together in peace.
I’m worried that you can’t seem to discuss a meaningless topic such as football without becoming either hypersensitive or (falsely) attacking the individual and not the argument. I’ll wish you a good evening and please try and see an argument against your thinking as just that: an argument. Your mind will be open to so much more...

 

[Swift Football]

Another formation thread but 442 is having a revival in European football, Leicester won't a league playing it, Real Madrid are playing it, Barcelona are playing it, Juventus in the second half tonight, Fergie would be in his element if he was still in charge. Could it be something we take on?

---------------De Gea---------------
Valencia--Bailly--Smalling--New LB
Lingard--New CM--Matic--Pogba
--------Lukaku------Sanchez--------

What do you think CAF?

We have seen multiple times - how 4-4-2 chases shadows in the midfield. We need 3 in the midfield.

 

[Hammondo]

He never played in a midfield 2 with Juventus...

And his best season at Juventus was 2015-2016 and he was more a LM than a CM...

LM is a cm position, it's just using multiple of them.