Joao Cancelo

Sassy Colin

Death or the gladioli!
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
70,760
Location
Aliens are in control of my tagline & location
3rd thread on this guy in the last 4 years, 3rd time lucky?

With the idea of redeeming Joao Cancelo remaining difficult for Inter, Manchester United have come in and are looking to swoop the full back from under their noses.

FCInterNews.it report that the Premier League club are so keen that they have already made a proposal to Cancelo’s parent club Valencia despite Inter having first option on him.

The Red Devils offer consists of a €42 million fee plus bonuses and they are prepared to tie the 23-year-old down to a long term contract with a five year contract with an annual salary of €3.5 million understood to be on offer.

Inter are doing their utmost to ensure they do not lose Cancelo, who has become a key part of Luciano Spalletti’s side, but the ongoing financial fair play problems could prove detrimental to their effort to keep a hold of him.

Since arriving last summer, Cancelo has made 25 appearances for the Nerazzurri, scoring once and assisting four goals.
http://sempreinter.com/2018/05/03/manchester-united-make-offer-for-joao-cancelo/
 

Oaencha

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
2,237
I wouldn’t say no; he’s turning into a very good player.

€3.5m a year seems a little low though. That’s about £65k a week.
 

sideshow_bob

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
738
Supports
Healthy nutrition
Would be good buy for us imo. Can play at right full back, right wing back & even as a right mid if required.

Hope it's true that we're after him & inter don't exercise their option.
 

Nick.

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2016
Messages
1,033
I'm sure just a couple of weeks ago people were saying we shouldn't Cancelo because he was having a bad season. If he's so integral to Inter Milan maybe we should try to get him.
 

Chillosophy

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
453
Location
Sweden
Seems great going forward from the little I've seen of him, but not so much defensively? Can someone shed some analysis on him as a player?
 

Nick.

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2016
Messages
1,033
I just read that's he's had trouble breaking into the Inter team.
 

Lash

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
11,888
Location
Buckinghamshire
Supports
Millwall, Saint-Etienne
I think inter would have trouble buying him, with FFP. Might have look up on him now, would be a very good Valencia replacement, offensively, from what i know. I haven't heard anyone calling him sound defensively mind you.
 

Nick7

Full Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
19,231
Location
Ireland
I mean it says how many games he's played for Inter in the OP...
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
53,080
Location
Hope, We Lose
I'm sure just a couple of weeks ago people were saying we shouldn't Cancelo because he was having a bad season. If he's so integral to Inter Milan maybe we should try to get him.
He's done really well going forward but hes had some ups and downs defensively from what I'm aware
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
53,080
Location
Hope, We Lose
Attack :
Passing :
Defence :
Stats would suggest that he would improve our chance creation from passes, more dribbles down the wing, more accurate crosses but would give the ball away a little bit more than Valencia. He'd also make less defensive actions but maybe Mourinho would get more out of him defensively.
 

André Dominguez

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
6,325
Location
Lisbon
Supports
Benfica, Académica
Being brutally honest, he's nowhere near the level required to play at Manchester United. And this says a lot coming from someone who's not only from Portugal, but also supports Benfica, his former club.

Cancelo was not even a starter at Benfica. Yes, he's fast and a very accurate dribler, but his lack of positional awareness damages his game style.

Ricardo Pereira from Porto would be a much better solution and would cost less.
 

Invictus

Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018
Staff
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
15,230
Supports
Piracy on the High Seas.
Don't quite know what to make of this link...he's generally good in the offensive phase, and almost as skillful as a winger:


But really inconsistent (even in attack - has games where nothing come off and a startling percentage of crosses are inaccurate), suspect in terms of decision-making and a so-so marker — probably why he played as a wide attacker at Valencia on a semi-regular basis - ahead of Martín Montoya — essentially, he has all the issues that plague someone like Bellerín - good athlete, but positionally suspect and his development has kinda stalled - don't think he's improved that much in 2-3 years. Mourinho might mold him into a better and more consistent defender, but this would be a risk-fraught move, nonetheless.
From the studies of Sky Sports, it is a surprising Beppe Bergomi that speaks of Joao Cancelo. The former Nerazzurro, in fact, explained why he would not redeem the Portuguese.

"I would not exercise the right of redemption. He's a good full-back, but that amount would be spent on other players. He was compared to Maicon, but Maicon's Inter relied on him for pace, physicality, insertions, and character: it was a column. Cancelo when he must defend in one against one is still imprecise, always try to make tunnels, makes risky games. I'm not saying he's not a good player, but I would not redeem him."
https://internews1908.it/beppe-bergomi-shock-cancelo-non-lo-riscatterei-ecco-perche/

Ricardo Pereira is more stable (he and Telles have been quite good for Porto), and you could argue that even a youngster like Dalot has more potential than Cancelo and already comes across as a more naturally compact defender.
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
He's not good enough, very fast but that's it. He's flashy, will have games where he's great in attack, but a lot of games where he can't do anything and he'd be a massive defensive liability so I'm also completely sure Mourinho won't go for him.

Odriozola is a much better option.

@Invictus nice post. Dalot could turn into a special player, he's been very highly rated for a very long time. I'm not that big of a fan of Ricardo Pereira, he's good but not good enough to make the jump to one of the bst teams in the world imo.
 

Lash

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
11,888
Location
Buckinghamshire
Supports
Millwall, Saint-Etienne
He's not good enough, very fast but that's it. He's flashy, will have games where he's great in attack, but a lot of games where he can't do anything and he'd be a massive defensive liability so I'm also completely sure Mourinho won't go for him.

Odriozola is a much better option.

@Invictus nice post. Dalot could turn into a special player, he's been very highly rated for a very long time. I'm not that big of a fan of Ricardo Pereira, he's good but not good enough to make the jump to one of the bst teams in the world imo.
I think he'll stay in Spain. I think Real were looking at him.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
9,340
I watched the Inter-Juve game the other day and was impressed with his usage of the ball. Would make sense as a platoon with Valencia for the next year or two for us to have a young guy better going forward than defensively.
 

TheFlagStaysDown

New Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
1,110
Location
Prague
Supports
Shamrock rovers
He's a talented, offensive minded fullback, with a bit of coaching in the defensive area, Mourinho would make him into a fantastic FB, think he can play on the left too, but hardly seen him in a game this year, just his Valencia days, and it would be a good "revenge" for Perisic
 

André Dominguez

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
6,325
Location
Lisbon
Supports
Benfica, Académica
I think he'll stay in Spain. I think Real were looking at him.
Indeed. Most of the talented U21-23 spanish players already have preference clauses for Real/Barcelona/Atletico. If take in account that 99.99% of the spanish players desire to play in any of those top three clubs it make things even more difficult.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
@Invictus

While those are fair points/assessment, it doesn't really tell much about the profile of player we may be looking at. With the lack of true winger who stay wide, the need for a full back to cover the whole blank is necessary. We look at someone like Young we can say he looks as suspect defensively as it gets but he still gets game because he fulfill enough tactical duty. Sure we need upgrade, but even the surer option is also a gamble and not many available.

Cancelo is inconsistent, but he has all the tool to own the whole flank. Have plenty dimensional to approach attack. Right foot, left foot crossing, Run to byline, play accurate long ball, cut inside and quick one two, or simply maze dribbling past one 2 player on his own. We're looking to change to 4-3-3 so there would be another defensive capable midfielder so the full back especially on the right flank where there is no one keeping width up the pitch, wopuld be afforded more freedom going forward by having someone helping him out defensively.

Edit: And there is a chance he's purchased as attacker (right winger). He doesn't look far off from a traditional winger.
 
Last edited:

buckooo1978

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
13,740
Attack :
Passing :
Defence :
Stats would suggest that he would improve our chance creation from passes, more dribbles down the wing, more accurate crosses but would give the ball away a little bit more than Valencia. He'd also make less defensive actions but maybe Mourinho would get more out of him defensively.
so according to stats he's a slightly less effective Ashley Young
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
Seem to be linked with Real Madrid more if AS to be believed
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
He's Portugal starting right back at the WC, is he? Will be an interesting watch if United want him
Not sure who is starting. Cedric when he played for Portugal offers more balance. Kinda like Maicon vs Alves situation at Brazil NT. Even in 2014 where Maicon clearly was worse overall than Alves, Maicon turned out to be better as starter. Then you have Semedo in the mix, it's not as black and white as far as I see with Portugal NT.

Edit: Also if anything, he is scouted enough, and clubs would try to get the deal done before WC. he's not some unknown player after just first break through season. The risk of his price skyrocket after the WC than the other way around
 

broccoli

Full Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
3,124
Supports
FCPorto
Won't go past this level due to poor decision skills. Would look into someone better honestly.
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
He's Portugal starting right back at the WC, is he? Will be an interesting watch if United want him
Not sure who is starting. Cedric when he played for Portuguese offer more balance. Kinda like Maicon vs Alves situation at Brazil NT. Even in 2014 where Maicon clearly was worse overall than Alves, Maicon turned out to be better as starter.
Cancelo won't even go to the World Cup, he's our 4th choice right back since Santos is very defensive.

Cedric will start, Semedo on the bench. Ricardo Pereira deserved to go but he won't.
 

Invictus

Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018
Staff
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
15,230
Supports
Piracy on the High Seas.
@Invictus

While those are fair points/assessment, it doesn't really tell much about the profile of player we may be looking at. With the lack of true winger who stay wide, the need for a full back to cover the whole blank is necessary. We look at someone like Young we can say he looks as suspect defensively as it gets but he still gets game because he fulfill enough tactical duty. Sure we need upgrade, but even the surer option is also a gamble and not many available.

Cancelo is inconsistent, but he has all the tool to own the whole flank. Have plenty dimensional to approach attack. Right foot, left foot crossing, Run to byline, play accurate long ball, cut inside and quick one two, or simply maze dribbling past one 2 player on his own. We're looking to change to 4-3-3 so there would be another defensive capable midfielder so the full back especially on the right flank where there is no one keeping width up the pitch, wopuld be afforded more freedom going forward by having someone helping him out defensively.

Edit: And there is a chance he's purchased as attacker (right winger). He doesn't look far off from a traditional winger.
Oh, he has the tools to be very effective as someone who can surge up the flank, alright — in fact, I was very much a believer 2-3 years ago based on his physical traits and projected performances on the basis of said traits. e.g.

3. Right back: Need a deputy to Valencia, who'll eventually step up full time into the role. In the absence of standout candidates for the role, João Cancelo makes sense. Or maybe Passlack, but again, Dortmund will likely not sell him. And the player himself might not want to join the club.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-do-we-still-need-post-summer-2016-edition.421337/page-3
Gifted player for the position, like his teammate Gaya who's further along in his development at this stage. Really inconsistent when I've seen him. Will have one good performance followed by 2 or 3 mediocre ones. Was quality vs Levante the other week, but then rather poor vs Barcelona in the following week from a limited appearance. Having said that, he is an exciting talent and has all the necessary traits to be a very good right back.

Right now his attacking play is of a good standard, defensively not so much. Good stature for a right back - kind of like Ferreira and Bosingwa, he can dribble freely, very good timing on overlaps, the end product isn't quite up to par but he is improving. His technique, positioning inconsistencies and defensive flaws let him down a bit at times. Though to be fair, that's kind of a given with young players, they make mistakes and (hopefully) learn especially in a league that doesn't lay a major emphasis on defensive astuteness. Potentially a high caliber player, but still needs a lot of playing experience and proper coaching in the nuances of defensive play.

Dunno about his loan status from Benfica. He could return to Portugal or even extend the deal at Valencia to try to displace Barragan for more time as a starter. They will probably qualify for the Champions League, Nuno seems like a good young manager, and there are other good Portuguese players around, including Andre Gomes so he has the right environment to progress.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/joão-cancelo.403852/

However, he has just not taken the expected steps in his development - which is concerning from the standpoint of signing him. In relative terms, he's not a much better or more efficient or more influential attacker vis-à-vis his performances circa 2015, he's not improved his decision-making or positioning by a discernible margin per se, and he's as suspect defensively as he was back in 2015. Ideally, you need someone who shows great appetite for improvement, and offensively - can really explode as a difference-maker (like Guerreiro - aside from the fitness issues, or Kimmich at Bayern, or Semedo - who improved a great deal at Benfica prior to the transfer to Barcelona), and I doubt Cancelo has the ability to do that given his track record.

There's a real dearth of top rightbacks, yes - however, for the type of offensively predicated role you're describing a 4-3-3, I'd very much be in favor of signing Odriozola instead (like others have mentioned above, including @Peyroteo): he's just as dynamic as Cancelo and Bellerín, but evidences better decision-making, better appreciation for crosses as regards timing and delivery, better dribbling vision, greater tenacity, and so forth. Have greater faith in him emerging as a potentially elite level fullback.

 

Infra-red

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
13,387
Location
left wing
He's not good enough, very fast but that's it. He's flashy, will have games where he's great in attack, but a lot of games where he can't do anything and he'd be a massive defensive liability so I'm also completely sure Mourinho won't go for him.

Odriozola is a much better option.

@Invictus nice post. Dalot could turn into a special player, he's been very highly rated for a very long time. I'm not that big of a fan of Ricardo Pereira, he's good but not good enough to make the jump to one of the bst teams in the world imo.
Is Alex Telles, in your view?
 

Peyroteo

Professional Ronaldo PR Guy
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
10,884
Location
Porto, Portugal
Supports
Sporting CP
Is Alex Telles, in your view?
I prefer him to Ricardo and his set piece delivery alone is a big weapon. I think he could be a good option for United, not the best option but a decent one. The level from the portuguese league to the top leagues is getting bigger so it's becoming very tough to say who will be able to make the jump or not.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
Oh, he has the tools to be very effective as someone who can surge up the flank, alright — in fact, I was very much a believer 2-3 years ago based on his physical traits and projected performances on the basis of said traits. e.g.


However, he has just not taken the expected steps in his development - which is concerning from the standpoint of signing him. In relative terms, he's not a much better or more efficient or more influential attacker vis-à-vis his performances circa 2015, he's not improved his decision-making or positioning by a discernible margin per se, and he's as suspect defensively as he was back in 2015. Ideally, you need someone who shows great appetite for improvement, and offensively - can really explode as a difference-maker (like Guerreiro - aside from the fitness issues, or Kimmich at Bayern, or Semedo - who improved a great deal at Benfica prior to the transfer to Barcelona), and I doubt Cancelo has the ability to do that given his track record.

There's a real dearth of top rightbacks, yes - however, for the type of offensively predicated role you're describing a 4-3-3, I'd very much be in favor of signing Odriozola instead (like others have mentioned above, including @Peyroteo): he's just as dynamic as Cancelo and Bellerín, but evidences better decision-making, better appreciation for crosses as regards timing and delivery, better dribbling vision, greater tenacity, and so forth. Have greater faith in him emerging as a potentially elite level fullback.

I understand what's coming at. I will try to come from another perspective here.

First let's try with Marcelo & Dani Alves career trajectory. Marcelo got into the scene at younger age. Show great promise, but has different stagnation period through out his career, until now where he fully realize his promise, yet he is still very much flawed in some aspect of his game. dani Alves on the other had a smooth developed career. Break through-improving- peaking-declining. The projected, expected development ain't something I support as different players develop different and there are too many different aspect in environment need to get factored in.

So with that I compare Cancelo to Marcelo. He can be said to have stagnated. Yet his level is still acceptable and arguably be better than what we have (especially going forward). Why not go for Odriozola? Here is just speculation. It's not like we don't want but Cancelo is more obtainable or at least at cheaper price which go along way to help us manage our budget and obtain targets for other position. Odriozola is pretty much going to the WC and favorite to be a starter. He unlikely gets sold before WC which means his price tag can be increased after. With shorter transfer window this time, it's a mare for us as it's not like we have a clear run for him, so the chance of getting bullied into paying more is high!!! All in all, we are in no position to not entertaining other target even if people don't rate, don't like it.

Edit: Valencia wants to keep their team which means they want Kogdobia to be tied down. Inter on the other hand may miss CL football. As we know, Inter had problem balancing the book so without CL football money, they may find it hard to spend money to seal Cancelo. Even if they do, they may consider hot sell him for small profit. That makes Cancelo is more obtainable. Since this is transfer discussion rather than rating X vs Y, I believe this perspective needs to be looked at. And IMO between Cancelo and Odriozola, Cancelo would save us plenty of problem while give us breathing space to work on different target for other position than potential dragging saga with Odriozola with huge risk of ending up in vain. Of course, we don't have ITK info, so these can all be just smoke screen for unnamed target
 
Last edited:

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
53,080
Location
Hope, We Lose
so according to stats he's a slightly less effective Ashley Young
Not quite, different outstanding skills. But yeah the stats would suggest that he'd be a problem defensively at times like Young is and much better on the ball going forward. Rates the top there in all the skills you'd want from a winger (key passes, dribbles, accurate crosses) so he'd almost be an extra wide player similar to Valencia when he was doing a good job. Maybe better. But defensively its a question mark
 

Irish Jet

New Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Messages
2,261
Supports
Anyone but Rashford
Nowhere near good enough. He’s been shocking for the last few months.