Well you managed to be wrong here as well.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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so predictable this thread being up topYou know Law when to City..that worked out alright for him. What ya think?
Nope. you can look at the players city have signed since 2013. Much better than United's crop.
Yes, identity bollocks. It doesn't exist. It changes form manager to manager. Pretending we've always played in this exactly way is showing ignorance of our history.
We've just spent 50mil on the type of midfielder that you're craving for, pushing Fellaini yet further down the pecking order.
Good for you, so have plenty of other people who aren't getting teary eyed about offering a squad player a new deal. If this is so unpalatable to watch then don't bother doing it. No one is forcing you to.
Jose has in all likelihood, forced the club to bend to his will re Fellaini, yet remains non plussed regarding Martial... Seriously, feck him.
He'll be a dead man walking by Christmas.
He'll be a dead man walking by Christmas.
I wish I shared your certainty that it was just Mourinho to blame. It would be so bloody convenient, but we've been through this twice over already and I just don't see a squad here that can challenge for the league, not under Mourinho or anyone else. We know that Fellaini is a Mourinho player, but the other big issues we're starting to see emerge – a supposed acceptance that our left back options 'will do' and a failure to improve at right back – are areas that he's on record, or those close to him are, as saying he wants to improve.
If, as is looking likely, we do go into next season without key additions that Mourinho has identified (as we did with our failure to sign Perisic last summer – regardless of the respective merits of that transfer or not) I don't see how people can argue he has 'nowhere to hide'. I think there's a systematic failure of expertise and ambition at the club and, unfortunately, Mourinho is at worst a symptom of that failure.
My very real fear, and I of course may be wrong, is that Mourinho is actually doing about as well as can be expected with the squad he's got and these grandiose hopes that sacking him will 'free up' certain players and lead to swashbuckling, trophy winning football is as misguided as when people thought it about Moyes and Van Gaal too.
Yeah, they've also managed to sign Silva, Kompany and Aguero, what you can easily call their spine, before Ferguson's departure. They've started building their squad way before 2013, so no, they haven't built the squad in the same period as us.
Probably forgot some players too, Toure was signed prior to that year as well and he was pretty much a star player for them in his prime, like him now or not.
Do the people who regularly post things like “go support another club then” or “if you don’t like what the club is doing then you don’t have to watch” really feel good about their point of view?
At the end of the day we all care about the club, but dissenting views on our current status seem to prove that you are a lesser fan?
It’s so similar to all the trump supporters on twitter who constantly say “if you don’t like Trump’s America then just leave the country”
At the end of the day we all care about the club, but dissenting views on our current status seem to prove that you are a lesser fan?
It’s so similar to all the trump supporters on twitter who constantly say “if you don’t like Trump’s America then just leave the country”
Everything you're disagreeing with here are things I haven't actually said.
I haven't pretended we've always played the same way. Never said it.
I haven't declared it's unplatable to watch them. Never said it.
I haven't said I was craving Fred. Never said it.
Maybe actually read my post before arguing
We simply don't know this. Even Pep has failed to get some targets. It will be his fifth transfer window. He owns this squad entirely.
Well no, we don't, because we haven't reached the end of the window yet, but we do know that he isn't happy with the quality of the squad and that the club failed to secure his targets last summer because he's told us as much. Not wanting that to be true doesn't mean it isn't.
Forget about their "older guard", he's clearly only talking about their signings since 2013. He was talking about a team, not a squad as well.
Which would be something like: Ederson, Walker, Stones, Laporte, Mendy, Fernandinho, Gündogan/B.Silva, De Bruyne, Sané, Sterling, Jesus.
It's not that bad tbf.
I think you and everyone else are right, in a combination of Mourinho's style and squad (fullbacks and RW).
AKA those positions are really holding us back and MF and CB are not as bad as being made out to be in many posts.
It's complicated stuff. (Personally I think Dalot is going to do really well at RB)
I generally agree; it looks like a combination of squad + Mourinho's style. Hence he's not exactly motivated to make huge personnel changes if he honestly thinks Young at LB is fine, for example.
Yeah I didn't mean literally every player was there before 2013. But they've build a whole new squad with it. If they released every player that was there before 2013, they'd still have 22 plus players wouldn't they. And their squad would still be better than United's unfortunately.
You've replied to me a lot. And every time it's basically just along the lines of "oh you're spoilt" but you haven't even come close to disproving anything i've said because you can't.
Do United lack ambition is keeping Valencia and Young as first choice full backs? Yes, undeniable.
Do match-going United fans enjoy watching their team play as much as city, Liverpool & Spurs fans do at this time? No, undeniable.
Is keeping Fellaini, even as a squad player, showing the drive to be the absolute best? No, undeniable. If he'd left on a free, Arsenal was his absolute ceiling.The best clubs wouldn't have touched him.
Will United stuggle to get into the top 4 with this team? IMO it's undeniable, but unfortunately some fans will have to wait until December/January before it's undeniable to them.
Will it be Mourinho's last season if we win nothing and don't qualify for the CL? Well, maybe not. But you'd definitely think so.
We know the club failed to secure one target, the rest is speculation. Yes, he's admitted he's not happy with the quality but he's said the opposite at other points. He's also said, he doesn't like a raft of changes at a time.
My argument is you can't keep complaining about the squad after five transfer windows.
For both Ed and Mourinho, it doesn't make sense.
This is the new Messi vs tantrumaldo thread.
Ball's in your court, Jose lad.
Time for you to pay the piper. Anything less than improvement on last season and you need to walk - he'll have had 3 x full seasons, 6 x transfer windows and if he's still playing shite football he needs to go.
Time for you to pay the piper. Anything less than improvement on last season and you need to walk - he'll have had 3 x full seasons, 6 x transfer windows and if he's still playing shite football he needs to go.
Agree.Do the people who regularly post things like “go support another club then” or “if you don’t like what the club is doing then you don’t have to watch” really feel good about their point of view?
At the end of the day we all care about the club, but dissenting views on our current status seem to prove that you are a lesser fan?
It’s so similar to all the trump supporters on twitter who constantly say “if you don’t like Trump’s America then just leave the country”
I get this a lot because I tell the truth and try to comment objectively. If United are shit, i'll say we're shit. If United are brilliant, I'll say we're brilliant.
I'll still watch and support them through thick and thin.
And my argument is you can if the club is routinely failing to get you the players you want, especially if the clubs model is reliant upon backing the manager above all else. You're right it's speculation, but it's no more speculation than your assertion that Mourinho has got the players he wanted.
At the very least, if you think that Mourinho is the wrong man for the job, then the club has got three managerial appointments wrong in a row. How can you have any faith that they'll get the fourth one right?
He will still get defended
Fellaini is not a bad player. He always gives his all and is a good option B. The issue I have with keeping Fellaini is that when he comes on our team considers him to be the only option and that leads to hoof the ball and crosses. We essentially become Stoke when he is on the pitch.
Why is Mourinho working hard to make United like stoke when he knows it doesn't work most of the time?
Why is Mourinho working hard to make United like stoke when he knows it doesn't work most of the time?
It remains to be seen. I am not saying Mourinho is entirely responsible for the squad. My personal view is that the club and Mourinho are not proactive enough in telling players to leave. I say this because Mourinho himself says he doesn't believe in it. The club has extended the contract of a few players who have proven not to be good enough within the last two years.
Don't take my post as me blaming just Mourinho. I have no confidence in the people above him and that's why I bumped the DoF thread.
Yup. Do people seriously think that if Mourinho wins number 21 or number 4 this season, that every single united fan in the world won’t be over themselves with glee?
No one wants the club to fail. Just because someone thinks our matches are boring to watch or that the manager/his tactics aren’t getting the best from our players doesn’t mean they should go and support City or PSG FFS. It’s some of the most childish banter I can imagine.
Even during Moyes and Vangle’s time here things like this were not spouted, where has this come from all of a sudden? And yes it is being said with increasing frequency in many threads.
Routinely failing to get his targets? That happened one time. He came into the season saying he was happy with the business regardless and his board will have no complaints from him. Once things went sour he brought it up. Then he ended up with a superior player in Sanchez and that's where we are
Yet it's plausible that that lack of 'proactivity' is not a Mourinho issue either. It's possible that the club have told him that the finances essentially dictate that it comes down to a choice between, for example, carting out Fellaini and signing a new LB then it's possible that Mourinho may prioritise improving the LB position and being content with a player he isn't really fussed about in Fellaini than replacing a back up player and not getting a LB.
We don't yet know that it is the case, and if it is I still think the club need to be realistic about the quality of squad needed to challenge City and their spending, but I just think that even these simplistic squad decisions about players who aren't up to the standard, in our opinion, are probably more dependent on factors other than Mourinho than we are privy to.
'if'
We know he didn't get one. We don't know whether the players he did get were the ones he really wanted, we don't know what he will get this summer. The context of mine and Adisa's discussion, rather than taking that section in isolation, should make that clear.
Has the 'Is it safe yet to go into the United forum?' been kicked off again yet? This thread usually gets them salivating.
Thought we'd offered Martial two contracts but he turned them down? I very much doubt we bent over for Fellaini, think the reports said we offered him a take it or leave it contract and in the end he chose to stay.
People are losing it because we're not signing a £50m+ midfielder to sit on the bench instead of Fellaini.
Nah some of us would genuinely prefer to promote a young player to the squad as a bench player than have to look at Fellaini again.
Next season when we're playing hoofball the Jose fans will be like 'what else can Jose do? Pep has KDB while Jose has to do with shit players like Fellaini, you should even be grateful we're 4th with this shit squad'
Those are a lot of ifs and maybes but since we're talking possibilities, you know it's also possible Jose was actually being sincere when he said he expects young to be a first teamer next season.
It's no more speculative than the narrative that blames Mourinho solely and completely for everything. We're all arguing about something we only have half the facts about. Who ends up being right is essentially unknowable at this stage.
The sad thing is when Jose gets the sack we'll still be stuck with Fellaini.
Pretty sure minimalist's reply is the footballing issue with the vast majority of people who are opposed to the re-signing. Not because it means the club isn't going to sign a new galactico in the hopes of filling the Scholesian hole left by his irreplaceable stature.
That's the part that drives me crazy.
Club needs to fix up.
Get rid. Give it to Giggsy for all I care.
Would you like McTominay the bang average player? Or Lingard the player not good enough for United? What about Rashford the headless chicken?
I'd also like Pereira to take Fellaini's place, but for some reason United fans have stopped backing their local players. Furthermore, if the club insists on young local players being forced into the team, then the manager should get time to develop them.
I personally think next season is the last for Mourinho being given 'time'. He's got us back to being regulars in the CL, now he's got to make us into one of the best teams in the world.
Don't think McTominay would cause me anymore pain than Fellaini has in midfield.
Pretty much. Make or break.
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