I'll say Fellaini too, for all the stick he gets from the fans, always committed to the team and does his best. Can't question his commitment. The rest, meh, if they don't care about fans, I shouldn't care about them either tbh.
Anyone else feeling disconnected from this current Man United?
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There’s a lot of players out there that he bought though.
Whatever way you slice it, the responsibility comes back to the boss. Players do deserve a kick up the arse but I don’t believe he’s the person to do it anymore.
Fellaini was definitely our best player.
I'll give you this. He's not my cup of tea but he made an effort yesterday. Can't deny that.
Sometimes you buy players and it doesn't work out. Pep decided to replace Bravo within a year. He then decided to upgrade on Stones with Laporte. Not every buy comes off.
Aye but that’s quality issues. You’re talking about players not putting in the effort. Slightly different I think.
Fair point.
He really hasn't improved at all, I'm not saying he is poor player, he is an average one, he just got a continued run up into the team and scored a few decent goals. All the flaws in his games are still there, can't control, can't pass, can't dribble, useless when opposition press. He will score an odd stunner, that's about it. We have to see it relatively, when compared to number 10s at midtable clubs, he is good but at the top of the table, is he comparable to likes of Eriksen, Silva, Alli etc?
And Rashford hasn't improved at all, if anything he has gone backwards since his debut under LvG.
You gotta love these threads popping up every time we get a bad result 
If the whole team and the manager did that, would it all be OK? Would it change how appalling they really were? I'd rather they do their talking on the pitch with the football talking.I'm royally p'd at a lot of stuff related to United right now, hence why I bumped this thread. Jesse Lingard and Marcus Rashford are some of the few things I am not annoyed about though.
Trust me. Jesse gives back to the fans.
He gives back a lot more than some of the players' whose backsides take a massive kissing from a lot of our fans.
Jesse got masses of s-t and still does for not being Ronaldo Mk2. In the same way that people used to call Fletch 'Fergie's son' and all that. Just because he's not got the best FIFA scores.
But there's a reason Mourinho starts him whenever he's fully fit and there's a reason a lot of match going fans love Jesse.
Trust me Jesse is one of us, one of the few left in this team of self-serving 'stars'.
Regarding social media, this is a generation of kids who've grown up immersed in it. It used to be the case where the only adulation footballers got would have been in the ground, so they're playing to hear a few thousand people singing their name. You want to be adulated? You do your talking on the pitch. Now, they're looking for the adulation of hundreds of thousands of young fans and the use of their hashtag is just ingrained for them. Being fashionable wins you supporters. You can't really blame them for that, and I think that it's important for the club to make sure they're well supported in their use of social media and how they comport themselves outside of 'work'. Perhaps there's more that can be done in that regard.
I don't think Lingard is a particularly bad example here: you can see that he cares for the club, that he cares about his own performances and he's not just playing to his social media crowd (hence spending time with the fans in the ground after the game). Others like Pogba do appear to need to show a bit more restraint in their behaviour.
I'm fast approaching my forties so I'm getting out-of-touch with this new generation of player. I find it hard to relate to them in the same way as I could when I was younger. This makes it harder to relate to the team as a whole, and I think that biases me against them. When I see Lingard or Pogba doing a silly dance after scoring a goal, I die a little inside. But I also understand that they aren't doing that for me, they're doing it for their generation. I suspect that I'd be happier with the team as a whole if they behaved a bit more professionally at times, but again I think that's just me struggling to adapt.
The biggest thing that bothers me - and it's been touched on a lot - is that there's an apparent lack of heart in the team. I want to see players angry that they're losing at half-time and coming out of the dressing room looking fired up and finding ways to change the game. That's something that has to be a fault of the coaching setup; technical ability is only part of what makes a good footballer. Being able to cope with adversity is a whole other side, and something that a lot of our players apparently struggle with. We give the captaincy to players who are either senior or who are willing to stand up and take the blame when things go wrong, but a captain needs to be someone who'll boss and corral and encourage change on the pitch. Lukaku has shown that he's a good motivator, but he's too advanced in position to effectively lead the team. Pogba's simply not commanding enough, and while Valencia has been around a long time he doesn't seem to be leader material. The only player that really stands out to me is Herrera but unfortunately he's technically a bit limited so doesn't play often enough to be captain. I don't know how we fix this one, to be honest. Perhaps Pogba does have it in him to boss the field but he has to be the exemplar, the player who doesn't let his head drop when things aren't working.
I don't think Lingard is a particularly bad example here: you can see that he cares for the club, that he cares about his own performances and he's not just playing to his social media crowd (hence spending time with the fans in the ground after the game). Others like Pogba do appear to need to show a bit more restraint in their behaviour.
I'm fast approaching my forties so I'm getting out-of-touch with this new generation of player. I find it hard to relate to them in the same way as I could when I was younger. This makes it harder to relate to the team as a whole, and I think that biases me against them. When I see Lingard or Pogba doing a silly dance after scoring a goal, I die a little inside. But I also understand that they aren't doing that for me, they're doing it for their generation. I suspect that I'd be happier with the team as a whole if they behaved a bit more professionally at times, but again I think that's just me struggling to adapt.
The biggest thing that bothers me - and it's been touched on a lot - is that there's an apparent lack of heart in the team. I want to see players angry that they're losing at half-time and coming out of the dressing room looking fired up and finding ways to change the game. That's something that has to be a fault of the coaching setup; technical ability is only part of what makes a good footballer. Being able to cope with adversity is a whole other side, and something that a lot of our players apparently struggle with. We give the captaincy to players who are either senior or who are willing to stand up and take the blame when things go wrong, but a captain needs to be someone who'll boss and corral and encourage change on the pitch. Lukaku has shown that he's a good motivator, but he's too advanced in position to effectively lead the team. Pogba's simply not commanding enough, and while Valencia has been around a long time he doesn't seem to be leader material. The only player that really stands out to me is Herrera but unfortunately he's technically a bit limited so doesn't play often enough to be captain. I don't know how we fix this one, to be honest. Perhaps Pogba does have it in him to boss the field but he has to be the exemplar, the player who doesn't let his head drop when things aren't working.
Seen a lot of people saying that we expect too much success and all that but I personally think that sentiment is quite unfair.
Think this all comes back to the end of the Fergie era. For a while, the fans were rightfully frustrated that we didn't spend enough in comparison to our rivals. We managed to keep up due to the sheer brilliance of the boss but the side that was left had lots of problems.
We then wasted an entire summer and year under Moyes playing terrible football getting terrible results. In comes LVG and in retrospect despite spending big in his summers his recruitment was awful. He bought a lot of players and only martial and Herrera were really good enough in the end. Again we weren't winning and we were playing terrible football.
Fast forward to Jose and it has been 3 years since we won the title and ever looked in any way a good side. The board and a large portion of the fans knew what getting Jose meant but understandably we were willing to sacrifice good football for what we thought would be guaranteed competition and success. The only problem is we kind have ended up with neither.
So now the fans have swung the opposite way and understandably so. If we aren't going to win at least excite us. Play good football, get the fans off their feet. Football like this will make the losses easier to stomach.
Honestly, If we replace Jose with the likes of a Poch I think the overall atmosphere will improve due to better football but likely the results in terms of points totals will be very similar. Our points total last year was fairly decent. Not sure many managers would do much better with our lot.
So all in all the disconnect felt stems from the fact that we are neither being excited by the football or getting enough wins to tide us over. You can justify bad football when winning but there is little justification for bad football by a top side if they are also failing to win trophies.
Think this all comes back to the end of the Fergie era. For a while, the fans were rightfully frustrated that we didn't spend enough in comparison to our rivals. We managed to keep up due to the sheer brilliance of the boss but the side that was left had lots of problems.
We then wasted an entire summer and year under Moyes playing terrible football getting terrible results. In comes LVG and in retrospect despite spending big in his summers his recruitment was awful. He bought a lot of players and only martial and Herrera were really good enough in the end. Again we weren't winning and we were playing terrible football.
Fast forward to Jose and it has been 3 years since we won the title and ever looked in any way a good side. The board and a large portion of the fans knew what getting Jose meant but understandably we were willing to sacrifice good football for what we thought would be guaranteed competition and success. The only problem is we kind have ended up with neither.
So now the fans have swung the opposite way and understandably so. If we aren't going to win at least excite us. Play good football, get the fans off their feet. Football like this will make the losses easier to stomach.
Honestly, If we replace Jose with the likes of a Poch I think the overall atmosphere will improve due to better football but likely the results in terms of points totals will be very similar. Our points total last year was fairly decent. Not sure many managers would do much better with our lot.
So all in all the disconnect felt stems from the fact that we are neither being excited by the football or getting enough wins to tide us over. You can justify bad football when winning but there is little justification for bad football by a top side if they are also failing to win trophies.
It wouldn't all be okay, because we still wouldn't be winning, but if you felt this team actually gave a damn about the support it'd change the whole mood around the club.
As it is it just feels like they don't care enough about the fans to try. They'd rather prioritise their on-going battle of wills with the manager than play for the pride of the shirt and the fans. Down tools, damn our season, just so long as they get Mou fired.
If they actually went out there and made us much effort as they're capable of we'd be able to see it.
This pretty much echoes my feelings. We'll get it right eventually, but it's going to be a long haul thing because the board aren't football people and only care about the bottom line. When, in say 5 years time, where we're continually finishing around top-6 and rarely making it to the top 4, we'll see something change. But right now? Nah.
The difference is that only Bravo was poor amongst Peps signings (of any significance) isn't it? He's pretty much improved the entire team which is what great coaching and management is all about. Even Stones after a tough first year was superb last season. That's what gives your bosses faith. Klopp has mostly done the same barring the excellent Lolius Karius.
On the other hand when the bosses see Lindelof, Bailley, Pogba, Fred, Mkhitarian, Sanchez etc performance like trash, it doesn't fill them with any confidence in Mourinho's methods whatsoever.
LVG, and now Mourinho. Both of their "gameplay styles" have made watching games more of a chore, than fun. I dont know if I can sit here for another full season of subjecting myself to the dross that is projected on the TV. There is no fire, passion. It is a gameplan that seems to rely on nothing more than 1-0 wins. When is the last game that we, as a fan base, were able to watch a side that was determined to destroy the opponent?
I said this yesterday in the match day thread, I just don't care anymore.
The summer's dealings have left me feeling dejected, which is a massive contrast to how optimistic I was feeling at the end of last season. I feel like we've set ourselves up for a massive year of disappointment and the board are joking if they think we've got a team that can compete for the title.
Going 2-0 down yesterday felt like LVG's second season all over again. I don't care for most of our players, with the exception of De Gea and Lukaku, the rest can leave tomorrow for all I care. We've become the home of second rate "I'll play when I want" shitness.
I was hoping for a big reaction from somewhere today, and I'm not talking about just sacking the manager because that won't fix our issues. We can't perform like that and we can't have our captain coming out and saying "my attitude wasn't right" and expect there not to be massive repercussions for those that think it's acceptable.
The summer's dealings have left me feeling dejected, which is a massive contrast to how optimistic I was feeling at the end of last season. I feel like we've set ourselves up for a massive year of disappointment and the board are joking if they think we've got a team that can compete for the title.
Going 2-0 down yesterday felt like LVG's second season all over again. I don't care for most of our players, with the exception of De Gea and Lukaku, the rest can leave tomorrow for all I care. We've become the home of second rate "I'll play when I want" shitness.
I was hoping for a big reaction from somewhere today, and I'm not talking about just sacking the manager because that won't fix our issues. We can't perform like that and we can't have our captain coming out and saying "my attitude wasn't right" and expect there not to be massive repercussions for those that think it's acceptable.
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This sort of whinging is so stupid. Players at the biggest clubs will get involved in stuff like that, win lose or draw. In title-winning seasons and mid-table slumps. Getting worked up about it in the aftermath of a bad result is insanely petty.
Yeah, kind of says it all really.
Couldn't have waited a few days for the launch though? I know its their day off but the players are multi millionaires and only train for a couple of hours a day. I'm sure he could've found a new launch slot if he really, really tried.
It’s funny. Comes off as people dancing around saying that now that we are not winning the allure of supporting us is not the same, which is understandable, but stillYou gotta love these threads popping up every time we get a bad result
seriously?“So yeah, I need you to cancel the global launch of your big new brand.
...
I don’t want it to happen until after the team I play for next wins convincingly.
Our next match? Spurs?
...
Fair point... And yes, there is an international break after that...
....
Listen, maybe you just put it on hold indefinitely until I give you the word? Would that work for you?”
Yeah, seriously. These kind of launches get moved all the time.
“So yeah, I need you to cancel the global launch of your big new brand.
...
I don’t want it to happen until after the team I play for next wins convincingly.
Our next match? Spurs?
...
Fair point... And yes, there is an international break after that...
....
Listen, maybe you just put it on hold indefinitely until I give you the word? Would that work for you?”
I assume the stock has already been shipped so its simply a question of the announcement. Once the press releases have been drafted and the videos done you can release at any time.
Its not like a multi billion pound infrastructure project and even the opening of those can get delayed at the last minute.
For him to delay the launch a few days for things to blow over would not have been much of a muchness.
Do you think he runs their marketing department? He doesn't make those decisions.
It would be, literally, an insane over-reaction to his team losing a game of football. All to spare the feelings of a few snowflakes on twitter.
Equally, I would be almost certain he couldn’t make them delay the launch even if he wanted them to. Not for such an absurdly trivial reason.
It would be a strong reaction but then Alexis' PR people should be weighing up the impact on his brand, if its received negatively.
If Alexis' camp made a request for a delay they could've delayed. Alexis is the commodity here. The company wants him to push its goods not the other way around. Its very difficult to force a global sports star into doing an endorsement they don't want to do.
This season there's definitely a disconnect.
The board effectively made Mourinho dead man walking despite him coming second last season.
Is this really the same club?
SAF made it his motto that the manager is always in control.
Manager power over player power.
And we prided ourselves in that.
We used to laugh at Real, Chelsea and Liverpool at their manager turnovers, falling prey to player power.
I can understand sacking Moyes and LVG after failing but hanging Mourinho out to dry after coming 2nd?
Does this really still feel like Manchester United to you?
Or are we just Real / Chelsea in a red shirt?
We now have a manager that needs to bend over backwards to please players that have won next to feck all for the club, and then get "rewarded" with the most half arsed display we've witnessed for 3 decades.
What's the fecking point?
Is Pogba, Martial and whoever the feck else worth losing the identity of our club?
We used to pride ourselves in doing things the right way.
Now we're just another fecking club in a red shirt.
So definitely a disconnect this season, and I very much doubt we'll get back to where we once were anytime soon.
We don't have the finance to compete with the oil clubs, and we no longer have the culture in place to support the manager.
It makes zero difference who we bring in.
We decided to prioritize players that care more about their ego than the shirt, and we'll suffer for it.
The board effectively made Mourinho dead man walking despite him coming second last season.
Is this really the same club?
SAF made it his motto that the manager is always in control.
Manager power over player power.
And we prided ourselves in that.
We used to laugh at Real, Chelsea and Liverpool at their manager turnovers, falling prey to player power.
I can understand sacking Moyes and LVG after failing but hanging Mourinho out to dry after coming 2nd?
Does this really still feel like Manchester United to you?
Or are we just Real / Chelsea in a red shirt?
We now have a manager that needs to bend over backwards to please players that have won next to feck all for the club, and then get "rewarded" with the most half arsed display we've witnessed for 3 decades.
What's the fecking point?
Is Pogba, Martial and whoever the feck else worth losing the identity of our club?
We used to pride ourselves in doing things the right way.
Now we're just another fecking club in a red shirt.
So definitely a disconnect this season, and I very much doubt we'll get back to where we once were anytime soon.
We don't have the finance to compete with the oil clubs, and we no longer have the culture in place to support the manager.
It makes zero difference who we bring in.
We decided to prioritize players that care more about their ego than the shirt, and we'll suffer for it.
Received negatively? By who, a few babies on twitter and the caf. I can assure you a Chilean jeans company doesn't give a feck about a few United fans crying on the internet. If anything some losers online crying about it just give them more publicity.
Force him to do something? He's already made the commercial. They aren't forcing him to do anything. They'll release it when they want and when they have it scheduled.
The “impact on his brand” is trivial to the point of being completely insignificant. Apart from the aforementioned snowflakes on twitter. And you don’t make brand decisions based upon the emotions of hysterical numpties like that lot.
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Don't worry lads, he endorsed this brand of dog food on Thursday whilst Bailly was still seen as the second coming of Vidic.
Swings and roundabouts.
When players on the pitch doesn't care, can't for some reason even press the ball and just stand there waiting for rivals to attack them why the crowd should be obligated to support that after paying chunk of their money for tickets ? This disease is happening from good years, the last thing I would blame is OT crowd, especially when the title race ends up usually around christmas.
It's not fans disconnecting, it's the current direction of officials pushing away supporters who are being called spoiled after expecting to see some effort that will last to the end of the season.
It's not fans disconnecting, it's the current direction of officials pushing away supporters who are being called spoiled after expecting to see some effort that will last to the end of the season.
I think we have a squad full of two types of player:
1. Talented footballers with poor/inconsistent attitudes (Martial, Pogba, Sanchez etc)
2. Footballers of limited talent with good attitudes (Lingard, Young, Herrera etc)
We have very few who have both the talent and mentality to be a consistent player at the top level.
1. Talented footballers with poor/inconsistent attitudes (Martial, Pogba, Sanchez etc)
2. Footballers of limited talent with good attitudes (Lingard, Young, Herrera etc)
We have very few who have both the talent and mentality to be a consistent player at the top level.
Agreed.
For all his flaws, Wayne Rooney was probably the last player to wear a United shirt that ticked both those boxes.
I think since Ferguson retired the club has been run really poorly. Ed Woodward for me needs to go back to accounts and have someone who knows more about football. The last 3 manager appointments have been poor with same negative controlling manager in charge. The appointment of Moyes should have led to drastic changes to whomever decided he was the right man. I like Jose and think he has been stuffed by the board, however, his negative football and his treatment of players leaves a lot to be desired. I can't see this being a good season at all, players seem scared shitless about how to play. We look lost we really do.
Think the worst part about this is how we look a shambles in just about every department, from the way we are run at the top, prioritizing sponsorships and headlines with big name signings instead of football progression and getting the right players, down to the way we play, being one of the most boring sides to watch around. Theres very little to admire about us the last few years.
Then you have our biggest rivals playing some of the best stuff they have played in years, possibly ever. Liverpool set goal records on their way to the champions league final and is one of the most exciting teams to watch, seem to be fully focused on improving as a football team and focus on purely the football aspect, while City set records in the league last season and do took like theyll let up. We were a club that prided itself on being one of the more exciting clubs always, always known as an attacking side, always gave it's all to win and score goals. Now we are one of the worst to watch while our biggest rivals are all both better then us, but also much better to watch while all attracting fewer headlines because they focus on football and nothing else.
It's almost like we've turned our backs to everything this club represented when Fergie was in charge, and that's a huge shame.
Then you have our biggest rivals playing some of the best stuff they have played in years, possibly ever. Liverpool set goal records on their way to the champions league final and is one of the most exciting teams to watch, seem to be fully focused on improving as a football team and focus on purely the football aspect, while City set records in the league last season and do took like theyll let up. We were a club that prided itself on being one of the more exciting clubs always, always known as an attacking side, always gave it's all to win and score goals. Now we are one of the worst to watch while our biggest rivals are all both better then us, but also much better to watch while all attracting fewer headlines because they focus on football and nothing else.
It's almost like we've turned our backs to everything this club represented when Fergie was in charge, and that's a huge shame.
He posted himself modelling his own clothing brand an hour ago. We just let our players do what ever the feck they want, we're just a commercial money making machine. Is there anyone left at the club who cares about the football anymore.
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Could never have seen that coming...
To be fair, the only appointment I'd say was actually poor was Moyes. LVG made sense at the time as a stopgap, while Mourinho - despite his eventual failure at Chelsea - had won the PL the year before he came and remained one of the most coveted and respected managers in football.
A very fair point. And, let's be honest, we had fair warning with quite a few of them. We'd already been burned by Pogba and Raiola once and still rolled out the red carpet. Ranieri, who had brought Martial to Monaco, praised him but also spoke about his attitude needing to improve. Sanchez was acting the prick for the last year or so at Arsenal, sacking off the hard work in games and then giggling on the bench when they'd been beaten. It's hardly a secret that his team mates were happy to be shot of him.
It's not to say they couldn't be good professionals, but each of them came with potential baggage. Yet we decided to bet the house on them. It speaks to a muddled recruitment process. What did we expect to happen when things started going wrong?