I don't doubt his potential. Just worried his agent will angle a move next window if not this. Players hardly change back their minds if they want to go and its even harder with an agent like Paul's. The best we could do is to get atleast the double the amount we paid and reinvest it properly.
Di Marzio: Barca make bid for Pogba
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I feel like I've just done a complete 180 today and Raiola's comments were the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm not convinced that the Pogba/Mourinho relationship is as bad as made out, but Raiola has just pushed me over the edge with his comments. I think I now accept that Pogba will not reach his potential with him as an agent because he's too much of a distraction.
Pogba is playing at being a footballer, he wants the glitz and glamour but he's not willing to take onboard criticism and learn how to grow as a player. Raiola is obviously filling his head with pure garbage. In response to his comments about Scholes, all I'd say is that I don't think he'd know a truly world class player if he had to sit and watch videos of the all time greats. If he doesn't recognise that Pogba needs to improve then he's no football man. The guy is an idiot. I wonder if he ever turns up to Old Trafford? I'd give my left nut to have the chance to confront him.
Pogba is playing at being a footballer, he wants the glitz and glamour but he's not willing to take onboard criticism and learn how to grow as a player. Raiola is obviously filling his head with pure garbage. In response to his comments about Scholes, all I'd say is that I don't think he'd know a truly world class player if he had to sit and watch videos of the all time greats. If he doesn't recognise that Pogba needs to improve then he's no football man. The guy is an idiot. I wonder if he ever turns up to Old Trafford? I'd give my left nut to have the chance to confront him.
Regardless of manager what I think we will get from him in the best case scenario is a player who occasionally pops up with a world class performance where he’s unplayable and above everyone else on the field but will more often go missing and struggle to influence the game. If he’s not surrounded with players who can control the game he’s going to struggle. Basically a highlights player rather than someone who can go under the radar and still do well like Scholes.
Raiola sees the money in football right now is even more ridiculous than it was two years ago when he engineered Pogba’s transfer. He will want his piece of the pie.
Pogba admitting his attitude isn't right whilst wearing the distinction of being captain speaks volumes, would you want to be next to this guy in the trenches? Me neither, when I recall proper Utd captain's such as Vidic,Keane, Robson one realises quickly that Pogba is just a brand, an image who flatters to deceive. Just sell him in January for crazy money then get Eriksen and Alderweireld from Spurs!
Can't believe people actually want to keep him. He's making an absolute mockery of the club. Not only with his childish, pathetic comments but also his shite, inconsistent performances. You cannot build a team around a player that has 1 good game in 4 and that would rather arse about doing cruyff turns and fancy flicks than play the game properly.
He has been so underwhelming in his time here and clearly isn't arsed about the club or being here. If ANY player does not want to be here then they should be sold no matter how talented they are. We are not in a position to be carrying people we need players that want to be here and would do anything to put on the red shirt.
He has been so underwhelming in his time here and clearly isn't arsed about the club or being here. If ANY player does not want to be here then they should be sold no matter how talented they are. We are not in a position to be carrying people we need players that want to be here and would do anything to put on the red shirt.
The situation with Pogba is tricky because there aren’t many midfielders of his quality around. Say we sell him, who do we replace him with?
On the other hand he hasn’t shown that quality at United bar in sporadic glimpses. And to top it off you have to deal with PogFeelings and Raiola’s presence and the lingering thought that both he and his agent would jump at the chance of a mega move to Spain or kick a fuss about pay rises every couple of years.
These are issues regardless of what happens with Mourinho. Mourinho might not be developing the team as well as expected in terms of the football it plays, but you can’t absolve Pogba of his share of responsibility he has to play at the level he is capable of. I think everyone agrees that he hasn’t been doing that.
The ideal scenario is a motivated, focused and consistently performing Pogba. I wouldn’t take £250m for him if he would show that. But he hasn’t. And if he doesn’t this year as well, there will be doubts about him irrespective of Mourinho.
If a player doesn’t perform at the level expected for 3 years in a row he’s entering “flop” territory. And if you get the opportunity to cash in a huge profit on a flopped transfer, while getting rid of Raiola in the same breath, it’s very tempting to take it.
On the other hand he hasn’t shown that quality at United bar in sporadic glimpses. And to top it off you have to deal with PogFeelings and Raiola’s presence and the lingering thought that both he and his agent would jump at the chance of a mega move to Spain or kick a fuss about pay rises every couple of years.
These are issues regardless of what happens with Mourinho. Mourinho might not be developing the team as well as expected in terms of the football it plays, but you can’t absolve Pogba of his share of responsibility he has to play at the level he is capable of. I think everyone agrees that he hasn’t been doing that.
The ideal scenario is a motivated, focused and consistently performing Pogba. I wouldn’t take £250m for him if he would show that. But he hasn’t. And if he doesn’t this year as well, there will be doubts about him irrespective of Mourinho.
If a player doesn’t perform at the level expected for 3 years in a row he’s entering “flop” territory. And if you get the opportunity to cash in a huge profit on a flopped transfer, while getting rid of Raiola in the same breath, it’s very tempting to take it.
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What a fecking drama queen this guy is. And his agent. Sell the cnut if he does not know how to behave off the pitch and perform on the pitch.
Raiola is being very clever here. If Barca or someone else really is interested, then the only way United will sell him is if the player asks to leave (he won't) or the fans turn against him so badly, the club will want rid - that's my assessment of this - and I think Raiola is trying to do exactly that.....turn the fans against Pogba. He's done a good job today with that today.
Even before today, Pogba has only ever shown flashes of class in a United shirt. Would losing him really be all that bad? I don't think so. Even if Jose was to get the boot (my money is on 'gone by Christmas'), will Pogba still be trying to get another move when the new man comes in? Of course he will. We are miles away from a league or CL win, and he knows it. Raiola will be pushing for a transfer as long as he is here. Let's get rid when the money is right.
Even before today, Pogba has only ever shown flashes of class in a United shirt. Would losing him really be all that bad? I don't think so. Even if Jose was to get the boot (my money is on 'gone by Christmas'), will Pogba still be trying to get another move when the new man comes in? Of course he will. We are miles away from a league or CL win, and he knows it. Raiola will be pushing for a transfer as long as he is here. Let's get rid when the money is right.
Agreed.
Thoughts and prayers
Spot on.
just to clarify, even though the british transfer window is closed can barca still do a player plus cash offer with us if pogba does want out before the the end of the month?
I don't think it matters. His inconsistency means that we don't have to replace him with a player that can meet/beat his top level, only one that is more consistent throughout the season to perform better as a team.
Cough up GBP 200 million Barca. I am sure the club will let him be yours. After that I hope you implode from the agent fees and salary you will need to pay and the unhappiness it triggers in the rest of your team. I also hope Pogba agitates to leave you for PSG after 9 months.
People are getting far too wind up about this..
I learnt from the first Rooney saga that players will say anything to get a new contract.
I learnt from the first Rooney saga that players will say anything to get a new contract.
Anyone thinking clearly would see that it matters.
People are just being blinded by anger.
If we get £200 million, sell him on!
Don’t think the comments he’s made are the type you want to hear as fans from a Man Utd captain.
If we let him have his way, we are selling our souls as a club.
I just don’t want that gangster Mino Raiola bear this club. I would go as far as having a clause in players contracts that they can’t work with raiola whilst employed by Man Utd.
Don’t think the comments he’s made are the type you want to hear as fans from a Man Utd captain.
If we let him have his way, we are selling our souls as a club.
I just don’t want that gangster Mino Raiola bear this club. I would go as far as having a clause in players contracts that they can’t work with raiola whilst employed by Man Utd.
I agree with this to some extent, thought it's still a difficult one. He's our play maker. How many #8s are there that could be realistic options? Pjanic, Eriksen then what? A bunch of hopefuls like Kovacic, Ruben Neves, Weigl or our own Pereira?
Kroos, Verratti, Isco, KDB, Coutinho etc are all out of realistic reach.
Plus. The way we handle this will affect how players behave in future. We can’t allow players (especially someone who has been chosen to lead this club) to take the club for bargaining tool.
I really wish we had Sir Alex right now this diva and his fat owner would be gone already.
Again.
Again.
Yes
Realizing that a consistent 7/10 player in central midfield wins you more points than a player whose form varies widely from match to match isn't anger. Pogba's 9/10 days are great, but those 5/10 days don't end well for us.
I'm not sure you have to go with a like for like switch when replacing him. Mourinho could easily go out and get a #10 and revert to a system similar to what he has typically run throughout his career since he no longer has to build around Pogba's defensive issues at #8.
There is certainly some truth in what you're saying. But, it is also true that Pogba has been underwhelming in too many games since he came back. And the frustration with the whole thing becomes even bigger.
We need to see where we are and how Pogba’s departure would influence us between now and January or likely the end of season as you usually don’t get to buy top players in January (and even then they take a while to settle).
I think the biggest question is how that affects our top 4 credentials. If the difference is between 3rd and 4th you can easily make that move if you feel the relationship is toxic. If the difference is 3rd or potentially 5th or 6th then you need to think long and hard about the implications of that move.
I think with a midfield of Fred, Matic and one of Pereira, Herrera and Fellini we might still get a shot at finishing above one of Chelsea and Tottenham. Probably not Liverpool and definitely not City.
You don't have to go like for like for Pogba but you need a playmaker. Either a deep playmaker or an advanced one. And again who are these #10s that are "gettable" than can play a consistent 7/10 for us?
Mourinho has had the following playmakers:
Porto - Deco
Chelsea - Lampard
Inter - Sneijder
Real - Ozil
Chelsea - Oscar
Man. United - Pogba
Only Oscar was the case of a consistent performer without being exceptional, though he was flanked by Hazard. Generally they were all at minimum very high level and at best world class players that are really hard to find right now. That's the reason when he first arrived he looked for a talisman playmaker cause it's important to the football he plays.
If you think that's easy to find I think you're mistaken.
It’s fantastic to watch a group of people be so manipulated by absolute garbage in the media with no substance. For some reason, people have cottoned on to the fact that unsubstantiated nonsense will get written about Sterling, but are struggling to look for substance with anything to do with Pogba. Pogba is a young, black star and so will go through the same ritual. He gets a lot of clicks internationally to boot too. If there isn’t any material out there on Pogba, someone will invent some. A lot of the ex-players surrounding our club should be ashamed. They are contributing as much as anyone to this. Tell Pogba he’s not focussed and doesn’t care about United enough, and what do you know? It might become true eventually.
I had a conversation at work with somebody on Monday who told me that Pogba is always out and never focussed on United. I asked how she knew this. He’s pretty much never seen out, certainly not drinking and partying. The press would have a field day with that, but they can’t because there’s nothing there. Instead they generate clickbait and get rent-a-quotes to spin something.
Everything I understand about Pogba suggests he views Manchester as much as his home as anywhere else. Two of his closest friends play for the club. He didn’t leave United because he didn’t want to play here. He left because Ferguson was letting a personal grudge block Pogba’s development and we had the absurdity of a Park-Rafael midfield two to demonstrate this. Ferguson was a great manager, but he was to an extent failing to adapt to the shifts in power in the modern transfer market. He was happy to come back, especially with the commitment United were willing to make to bring him back.
Nobody has looked especially happy with the football at United in 2018. It’s not as if Pogba is the obvious weak link in a well-oiled, happy, footballing machine. The team’s struggling and by the team, I mean the entire team. Don’t make the mistake of thinking the way to fix this is by culling the most talented member of your squad. If Pogba leaves he has choice of clubs to move to. Bayern are Bayern, but Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, Juventus and the Milan clubs would bite your hand off for him.
When Pogba publicly agitates for a move or he’s the guy holding us back, let me know. Until then, stop pretending that the only way to be a professional footballer for Manchester United is to be a lad from Oldham, who is so introverted that he’s shy in front of his own mother and who’d struggle to spend any length of time out of the North West, let alone England. For feck’s sake, our greatest player was Ryan Giggs who, whilst doing yoga to extend his career, was also hanging out of the back of anything that moved.
I had a conversation at work with somebody on Monday who told me that Pogba is always out and never focussed on United. I asked how she knew this. He’s pretty much never seen out, certainly not drinking and partying. The press would have a field day with that, but they can’t because there’s nothing there. Instead they generate clickbait and get rent-a-quotes to spin something.
Everything I understand about Pogba suggests he views Manchester as much as his home as anywhere else. Two of his closest friends play for the club. He didn’t leave United because he didn’t want to play here. He left because Ferguson was letting a personal grudge block Pogba’s development and we had the absurdity of a Park-Rafael midfield two to demonstrate this. Ferguson was a great manager, but he was to an extent failing to adapt to the shifts in power in the modern transfer market. He was happy to come back, especially with the commitment United were willing to make to bring him back.
Nobody has looked especially happy with the football at United in 2018. It’s not as if Pogba is the obvious weak link in a well-oiled, happy, footballing machine. The team’s struggling and by the team, I mean the entire team. Don’t make the mistake of thinking the way to fix this is by culling the most talented member of your squad. If Pogba leaves he has choice of clubs to move to. Bayern are Bayern, but Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, Juventus and the Milan clubs would bite your hand off for him.
When Pogba publicly agitates for a move or he’s the guy holding us back, let me know. Until then, stop pretending that the only way to be a professional footballer for Manchester United is to be a lad from Oldham, who is so introverted that he’s shy in front of his own mother and who’d struggle to spend any length of time out of the North West, let alone England. For feck’s sake, our greatest player was Ryan Giggs who, whilst doing yoga to extend his career, was also hanging out of the back of anything that moved.
I don't see the need to get rid at all.
The Donarumma saga was even worse than this and it ended up resolved.
And that midfield you mentioned will be brutally exposed. Especially because our problems extend far just that.
I understand that completely.
I am just saying that contract negotiations nowadays get very dirty. That's why I am not bothered by them.
Pogba just wants a new contract.
Look at how Raiola usually behaves. He ruffles feathers when he needs to but generally keeps quiet other times.
Can anyone genuinely see him becoming a consistent world class midfielder? If yes, you're living in a dream world. Get rid of him and the circus he brings with him.
Thiago, Christian Eriksen will be left with a year on his contract next summer (so, the best time to start whispering in his ear is now), monitor Kovacic at Chelsea.... James moved to Bayern not so long ago, Jorginho this summer.
It's not easy to find them, but it can be done. Not to mention all the players who could have a breakthrough season.
Yeah, I get you. I'm just more in the camp is all that worth it looking at his performances. Or take big money and try something new (next summer, not now to make it clear). Let's be honest and this all circus aside, there is a genuine concern will he ever be the player we thought we were buying. Even close to that.
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Fekir is the first name that comes to mind. He fits what the club is trying to buy as far as price, quality, and age.
I could see the club deciding that Sanchez is better centrally behind the striker and spending the money on a wide player or two.
The whole point for me is that (1) Pogba is far from irreplaceable based on his inconsistent form for us and (2) a system not built around Pogba might be different than the one we currently run.
I'm all tears.The situation we are currently in, needs a Robbo, a Keane or a Sparky, not a Pogba.
By the time we need a Pogba he will have brought this circus to town for another 2 years, I feel we need to take a step backwards this time, to move forward as a club.
By the time we need a Pogba he will have brought this circus to town for another 2 years, I feel we need to take a step backwards this time, to move forward as a club.
I do share similar doubts about him.
But I do think it's more than just his perfomances we should consider when negotiating a new contract. Marketability is another .
Yes, but we won’t be able to register that player to play until January.
It would have to be an agreement for that player to join us in January.
£125-130M and I’d sell him today. I would rather us play with someone who isn’t as talented (Herrera, Pereira, Lingard, whomever) but is more consistent and gives 100% versus someone more concerned with drama, their hair, and doesn’t have a crap agent.
£12.5-13.0M and I'd sell him today. If the money goes to my bank account.
One question fellow Reds, what is the general feeling for the situation when Pep claimed Mino offered Pogba to them, and probably to other clubs back in January/February? Do you think that Mino acted without accord from Pogba? I think the writing was on the wall, we just turned our backs to it.
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