Roulette Draft - R1: MJJ vs Big Dunk

Who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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VS

............................................. TEAM MJJ ....................................................................................... TEAM BIG DUNK ..................................




TEAM MJJ

Formation- 5-2-1-2 on paper but in reality, the side can easily and will transition to 4-3-3 at times with both kopa and baggio comfortable outwide.
Defensive Line- Normal
Playing Style- Direct, counterattacking football

Attack

A very fluid front three centered around one of the greatest strikers of all time Nordahl, both Nordahl and Kopa are famous for playing in an attacking trident and baggio would perfectly complement the two. Kopa's preference for the right wing augments baggio's for the left.


Midfield

A very technically sound midfield which can retain the ball or do a lot of damage with quick transitions. Overath was a complete box to box midfield player, blessed with a wand of a left foot and voronin is the perfect DM to partner overath and kopa. Defensively solid but with excellent ball skills. The ball playing ability of my midfield means that any one of midfield can play a game changing pass if afforded enough time.


Defense

The German Wall.

Why I would win

  • There is something off about my opponents midfield, I dont think rivera and gerson fit well and stielike isnt the player to hold that midfield together. It leaves his midfield physically weak without the stamina for pressing my side which is what is needed here ideally.
  • While is defense is good, mine is superior in almost every aspect with fullbacks about par.
  • Having vogts as a rwb should nullify the impact of facchetti and my attack being better than his should finish the job.

TEAM BIG DUNK

Dino ZOFF (Goalkeeper)
Djalma SANTOS (Fullback - defensive)
Claudio GENTILE (Stopper)
Ciro FERRARA (Ball-playing centreback - cover)
Giacinto FACCHETTI (Fullback - attacking)
Uli STIELIKE (Defensive Midfielder)
GÉRSON (Central Midfielder)
Gianni RIVERA (Attacking Midfielder)
Kurt HAMRIN (Right Wingforward)
Giuseppe MEAZZA (Complete Forward)
Pierre LITTBARSKI (Left winger)


Fluid 4-3-3

DEFENDING

GENTILE and FERRARA are a solid stopper-cover partnership. GENTILE is a tenacious man marker and FERRARA is a complete centreback, both defensive greats from their respective eras. FACCHETTI and DJALMA SANTOS complete the back four, two legendary fullbacks famous for their offensive and defensive dominance.
STIELIKE is an intelligent anchorman sat infront of the back four, screening the defence, but also organising play from deep through to our playmakers.
ZOFF, one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time is in goal. Maintaining a level of consistency and leadership that is unmatched.
GÉRSON, RIVERA and LITTBARKSI can assist STIELIKE with covering, chasing back, controlling the middle of the pitch, and supporting our fullbacks.
LITTBARSKI, MEAZZA and HAMRIN will help us defend from the front, cutting passing lanes and pressing the defenders.


BUILD UP PLAY

GÉRSON (architect of Brazil WC ‘70) is the central conductor: dictating the tempo, recycling possession, switching the play across the pitch and helping with our mixed tempo passing transitions (both vertical to RIVERA and MEAZZA, and horizontal to FACCHETTI and HAMRIN). Our midfield trio and fluid attack will help us to dominate possession and punish teams with quick vertical attacks.
RIVERA is our roving playmaker. One of the greatest creative footballers of all time. RIVERA can carry the ball or prove devastating with his off-ball movements into the last third.
FACCHETTI will prove an unstoppable attacking force on the left flank. FACCHETTI will overlap LITTBARSKI, who will frequently cut in with a mazy dribble infield.


ATTACKING

LITTBARKSI and HAMRIN will be encouraged to run at the opposition defenders. Exploiting spaces, losing their markers when cutting in and penetrating channels with their exceptional dribbling skills and natural pace.
MEAZZA will be incredibly hard to mark as he won’t be playing as a traditional centre forward, but a nine-and-a-half. He will drop deep, help with central creative phases, pulling centrebacks out of their line and opening up pockets for RIVERA and HAMRIN to exploit.
The attacking quartet of MEAZZA (prolific goalscorer and playmaker), HAMRIN (deadly wingforward), LITTBARSKI (dribbling wing wizard) and RIVERA (creative genius) is highly efficient, fluid and complete.
 
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MJJ

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Good luck @BIG DUNK, I was expecting you to play hamrin as a CF.

Couple of remarks from your tactics, having rivera as a roving playmaker is a mistake imo. The guy was a conductor and for me a better playmaker than gerson.


GÉRSON, RIVERA and LITTBARKSI can assist STIELIKE with covering, chasing back, controlling the middle of the pitch, and supporting our fullbacks.

From all accounts rivera wont be chasing anyone due to a lack of stamina and neither was gerson's game based on it.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Holy feck, those defences! :eek: Tough game to call.

Don't like Briegel in the role for MJJ. He was more industrious all action players with great speed and stamina and not that much technical discipline. Good for a fullback, not good for a RCB imo, esp against a tricky customer like Hamrin. Love the Kopa-Baggio partnership!

Not sure but something feels off in Dunkie's midfield. Will give it more thought. Meazza should be brilliant in that role!
 

MJJ

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Holy feck, those defences! :eek: Tough game to call.

Don't like Briegel in the role for MJJ. He was more industrious all action players with great speed and stamina and not that much technical discipline. Good for a fullback, not good for a RCB imo, esp against a tricky customer like Hamrin. Love the Kopa-Baggio partnership!

Not sure but something feels off in Dunkie's midfield. Will give it more thought. Meazza should be brilliant in that role!
A lack of technical discipline can be forgiven in a back five, specially with those four alongside him and no central focal point for my opponent.
 

Gio

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Pretty much the quintessential LCB is Briegel - no issues there IMO, albeit I get Edgar's points about his gung-ho nature.
 

Physiocrat

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Pretty much the quintessential LCB is Briegel - no issues there IMO, albeit I get Edgar's points about his gung-ho nature.
When I saw his squad I thought Brehme would be RWB with Briegel LWB, Kohler LCB and Vogts RCB
 

Enigma_87

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When I saw his squad I thought Brehme would be RWB with Briegel LWB, Kohler LCB and Vogts RCB
This.

You have Vogts picking Littbarski, Kohler - Hamrin and Sammer Meazza most of the time, whilst Voronin takes care of Rivera.

A much better defensive set up. Briegel in a LCB/RCB role to me is a waste, even more so than Vogts as a wing back.
 

2mufc0

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It doesn't make sense to shift Brehme to the right, firstly he never to my knowledge ever played there and secondly is GOAT at LB.

As for HPB I agree with @Gio he's perfectly equipped to play there.

Can see the argument for Vogts not being the best fit for RWB though .
 

MJJ

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Over the course of the year we always rated Briegel as “international class” but by the end of the year the majority of our writers were now sure he had to be rated in the highest category. Briegel, the former ‘muscle man’ from Kaiserslautern who was more known for his athletic abilities than his football skills by now has mastered the ABC of football in such a high degree that he even managed to oust the national team’s stopper Karlheinz Förster from the first place in this, his strongest position. And he managed this despite him not being able to show what he has to offer as stopper for the national team. His performances for his club already were sufficient to rate him as a stopper of world class. How glad Jupp Derwall can feel for having two such highly-rated players available for the stopper role!
Briegel as a stopper for his club side.
 

Gio

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MJJ's advantage there is that he can pretty much push the pieces around of that German defensive jigsaw as he sees fit. Briegel is proven at LB, LCB, CB, LM and CM; Brehme is the same on either side and even has some midfield experience, Vogts has solid credentials at RWB, RB and fits nicely at RCB.
 

MJJ

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After picking baggio as my first pick, I really wanted Kopa. Kopa, in my opinion, has the perfect attributes historically to play an AM role in a side containing baggio and I cant think of much better number tens historically. A roaming play-maker with a preference for the right side of the pitch while being an all time great dribbler and passer of the ball.

"France Football, who organise the award, wrote: "Technically, Kopa has perfected the game ... finesse, precision, passing. He masters the wonder of the dribble, by feints alone, the ball left there on the grass [before] starting up again, at just the right time. We have never seen [anyone] better at performing the one-two. ... Kopa does not merely pass to teammates randomly; he always puts them in the best position. His true place is not a winger, an inside forward, or even a striker: it is to create, inspir[ing], guiding and serving the attack to perfection."
 

Sonnet XVII

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It doesn't make sense to shift Brehme to the right, firstly he never to my knowledge ever played there and secondly is GOAT at LB.
Brehme was pretty freaking groovy on the right, to be fair — and also as a side midfielder, though that's not pertinent to this match thread.

Rightback in EURO '88 (courtesy @harms):

Pretty much the fullback version of Nedvěd in that he could play on both sides at a high level considering his two-footedness and positional/tactical nous. From an overall standpoint, whatever you lose in terms of proven GOAT tier ability on the left is adequately recuperated by having a surer and more focused defender in Vogts through the middle (possibly marking Littbarski or Meazza) and reverting Briegel to his primary defensive position as an athletic box-to-box powerhouse on the flank.
 

2mufc0

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Brehme was pretty freaking groovy on the right, to be fair — and also as a side midfielder, though that's not pertinent to this match thread.

Rightback in EURO '88 (courtesy @harms):

Pretty much the fullback version of Nedvěd in that he could play on both sides at a high level considering his two-footedness and positional/tactical nous. From an overall standpoint, whatever you lose in terms of proven GOAT tier ability on the left is adequately recuperated by having a surer and more focused defender in Vogts through the middle (possibly marking Littbarski or Meazza) and reverting Briegel to his primary defensive position as an athletic box-to-box powerhouse on the flank.
Ah thanks mate, wasn't aware of his credentials on the right. Fair enough!
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Got to admit, I'm completely fecking blinded here by seeing Sammer, Kohler, Brehme and especially Baggio in the same team :drool:. I like that Baggio/Kopa creative duo a lot too, as it has shades of the tasty Baggio/Andreas Moller combo of 1990s Juve, with Kopa being a big individual upgrade on Moller. Whether he's Vieri on steroids or a poor man's Vieri, Nordahl is an excellent stylistic fit to spearhead the attack too.
 

Theon

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Yeah, absolutely love that two-punch Baggio / Nordahl combination. Stylistically similar to Vieri and compliments Baggio perfectly with his blend of physicality and finishing ability.

Would have loved another Serie A legend in that #10 position but have to say that Kopa does look like an excellent fit. He's not a player I've ever paid too much attention to, of all the greats from that era he'll be one of the ones I know least about. Would be interested in reading some more about him.
 

MJJ

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Yeah, absolutely love that two-punch Baggio / Nordahl combination. Stylistically similar to Vieri and compliments Baggio perfectly with his blend of physicality and finishing ability.

Would have loved another Serie A legend in that #10 position but have to say that Kopa does look like an excellent fit. He's not a player I've ever paid too much attention to, of all the greats from that era he'll be one of the ones I know least about. Would be interested in reading some more about him.
Raymond Kopa: The First Modern Footballer
March 6, 2017 Jeremy Smith Leave a comment

Ask any French football fan to name the three best players in France’s history and they should all provide you with the same three names, the only issue up for debate being their ranking. Answers given will likely fall into generational categories: while the younger respondents may place Zinedine Zidane as the best, with the next age-group up preferring Michel Platini, those of an older generation will name, as their number one, Raymond Kopa.

Like his two illustrious successors, Raymond Kopa was no stranger to controversy. But also like Platini and Zidane, his footballing talent transcended his generation. Not only that but his influence off the pitch arguably made him the first modern footballer, paving the way for Platoche, Zizou and others to benefit financially from their talent.

Born Raymond Kopaczewski (the shortened version used by his first team-mates quickly stuck), Kopa was the son of Polish immigrants. Again like Platini and Zidane after him, both also the sons of newcomers welcomed to France, Kopa served as a great advert for what can be achieved by France when it is welcoming to outsiders – an important message in today’s worrying climate.

Raised in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region, Kopa struggled at school and, at only 14, followed his father into the local mines, working 600 metres underground and losing a finger in a work accident. Like so many footballing greats before and since, football proved the youngster’s way out (he himself acknowledged that, had he been born into a middle-class family, he would not have had the same desire and dedication to succeed) and, after impressing in a local talent competition, Kopa joined SCO Angers, making his debut aged 17. Even this first transfer caused some bad blood – not least with Kopa himself: the president of Kopa’s amateur club at Noeux-les-Mines, who publicly criticised him for moving “after all we’d done for him”, happened also to be an engineer at the mine in which Kopa injured himself, and could have assigned him to a much safer position.

The skillful attacker’s performances impressed sufficiently to attract the attention of France’s best team of the time, Stade de Reims, who moved for the youngster in another protracted deal as the clubs argued over the price and Kopa himself insisted on a higher signing-on fee.

Under the great French coach Albert Batteux, with whom Kopa lodged when he first moved to Reims, the youngster flourished, thriving under his mentor’s encouragement to give free rein to his offensive abilities in a new withdrawn striker’s role. Kopa led Reims to the league championship in 1953 and 1955, before the club’s champagne football led them to the inaugural European Cup final in 1956, Reims losing 4-3 to Real Madrid at the Parc des Princes. Kopa himself was diminished due to an ankle injury – he played to avoid suggestions that he missed the match so as not to upset his future employers.



That summer, amid more controversy, Kopa became the first French player to make a move abroad, joining the original Galactico project at Real Madrid and, in his words, leaving the second best team in Europe to join the best team of all time. To give an idea of the size of the transfer fee (just under €1 million in today’s money), Reims used the funds to sign arguably the three next best French players of the time: Roger Piantoni, Jean Vincent and Just Fontaine.

Real had in fact been after Kopa since 1955, following a match which really put the youngster on the world stage…

Having had to wait until he was 21 to qualify to play for France, Kopa had become an international regular – although courting criticism in some parts for his tendency to over-dribble: a Miroir-Sprint editorial in defence of Kopa after he took much of the flak from “the chauvinists, the idiots and the incompetents” for France’s early exit from the 1954 World Cup reminded everyone of Kopa’s great two years on the national and international stage – including comparisons with Stanley Matthews – and condemned criticism as “symptomatic of the extraordinary confusion that reigns in the brains of certain pseudo-technicians”.

Under Batteux he retained his place, but as the day of a friendly against Spain at Real’s old Chamartin ground dawned, French journalist and selector Gabriel Hanot announced that “a four-goal defeat for France would be normal, a victory impossible”. Kopa had other ideas, scoring one and helping create the other as France won 2-1 in front of a crowd of 125,000, prompting British journalist Desmond Hackett to describe the diminutive playmaker (Kopa was only 5’6” – the same height as another brilliant dribbler, Messi) as the Napoleon of football, saying “this afternoon I witnessed one of the greatest footballers of all time”.



Kopa remained at Real Madrid for three years, playing with the likes of Gento, Di Stefano and later his idol Ferenc Puskas. Exiled to the right wing (Di Stefano, the undisputed alpha male of the team, insisted on this after Kopa’s four goals in his first two games threatened his status), Kopa was an essential part of a team that lost only once in three years, winning two league titles and three European Cups.

Undoubtedly, 1958 was Kopa’s zenith as a footballer. With the league title and the European Cup in the bank, international challenges beckoned as Kopa travelled to Sweden with the France squad. Again, controversy was not far away: Real would not free their foreigners to play internationals so Kopa had not appeared for les Bleus for two years. Many said that he should therefore not be part of the World Cup squad; his cause was helped by France’s poor form coming into the tournament – as well as having the support of the France coach, Batteux, and the selector Paul Nicolas.

Just Fontaine and his 13 goals will ensure that he forever remains a staple of sports quizzes worldwide. But it was his deeper-lying partner up front, with whom he roomed and formed an almost telepathic relationship, who pulled the strings, beat defenders for fun and provided the millimetered passes as France brilliantly finished in third place. Named the player of a tournament which was won by a Brazil featuring Didi, Pele and Garrincha, Kopa won plaudits the world over and helped put France on the map as an international team.

France lost 5-2 to Brazil in the semi-final, severely handicapped by captain and centre-back Robert Jonquet breaking his leg, half an hour in, with the score at 1-1, Kopa having set up Fontaine for an equaliser: no substitutes were allowed at the time so Jonquet spent the last hour as a passenger on the left wing as Pele ran riot and left everyone wondering what might have been. However, a 6-3 win over West Germany in the third place play-off made the France team – especially Fontaine and Kopa – household names back home. As the icing on the cake, Kopa – who finished in the top three for four straight years – became the first Frenchman to win the Ballon d’Or, again paving the way for Platini and Zidane (as well as Jean-Pierre Papin).


After his third season at Real – which ended with another European Cup final victory over Reims – Kopa’s next move again was controversial. Real expected him to sign a five year contract extension; however, Kopa was mindful that he needed to begin to think of life after football and take care of his and his family’s financial security. He therefore returned to Reims, to enable him also to look after his business interests. Way ahead of his time, he developed the Kopa mark – covering products from clothing to fruit juices – and setting a template for future stars to benefit from their notoriety.

On the pitch success continued as Kopa won two more French league titles with Reims. But he was increasingly making news off the pitch as well as on it. In 1963 he turned his attention to players’ rights: at the time players were effectively contracted to their clubs for life and subject to the whims of their chairmen. Kopa railed against this and earned himself a suspended six-month ban by declaring that “footballers are slaves”. His influence and support empowered the UNFP players’ union, established by his friend Fontaine, which eventually secured contract rights for professional players.

1963 proved a tumultuous year for Kopa. In February he had already retired from international football after a dispute with France coach Georges Verriest, who publicly criticised him for not joining the squad for a week’s training session: Verriest had backtracked after giving Kopa leave – the reason for that leave being that Kopa was caring for his son, who tragically died of cancer, aged just four.

With Kopa aging and understandably distracted, Reims were relegated in 1964 but, showing loyalty to the club, he remained despite attractive offers elsewhere, to help them to immediate promotion.

Kopa finally retired in 1967, aged 35. Continuing to play football for fun, he was tempted back in 1973, aged 41, to play for PSG in a pre-season friendly, as a favour to then-PSG coach Fontaine. Amazingly Kopa scored a hat-trick and had to resist offers to join the club, instead focussing on his business interests and driving 80,000km per year as sales director of the Kopa brand. Eventually retiring to divide his time between his homes in Angers and Corsica, Kopa passed away last week at the age of 85.

The outpouring of love at the news of Kopa’s passing – not only in France but also abroad and most notably at Real Madrid – are a testament to the mark that he left on football. In France in particular, the footballing landscape both on and off the pitch – and the success that so many French players have enjoyed – would not have been possible had it not been for the Napoleon of football.



Kopa - Platini - Zidane
Ecstatic pasted a wonderful article on him. Love the picture in the end.
 

Jim Beam

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MJJ defence is fantastic. And then like he didn't have enough, he also put Voronin in the midfield.
 

harms

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Rightback in EURO '88 (courtesy @harms):
I see that you've finally got that 5th like :)

Personally I feel that something is a little off with MJJ's team, but it'll go through in France-18 fashion — super solid at the back with a piece of genius from Baggio or Kopa.
 

MJJ

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I see that you've finally got that 5th like :)

Personally I feel that something is a little off with MJJ's team, but it'll go through in France-18 fashion — super solid at the back with a piece of genius from Baggio or Kopa.
In terms of the midfield, attack or defense?
 

Enigma_87

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@BIG DUNK has made a great effort and have compiled a very well balanced side, but after the change it's hard to vote against @MJJ
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Yeah, absolutely love that two-punch Baggio / Nordahl combination. Stylistically similar to Vieri and compliments Baggio perfectly with his blend of physicality and finishing ability.

Would have loved another Serie A legend in that #10 position but have to say that Kopa does look like an excellent fit. He's not a player I've ever paid too much attention to, of all the greats from that era he'll be one of the ones I know least about. Would be interested in reading some more about him.
Curious about who you're thinking of here. Rui Costa maybe?
 

harms

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In terms of the midfield, attack or defense?
Overall feeling, but it's not something rational. One pick can change all that — or even moving some players around, I'd assume.
 

Theon

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In terms of the midfield, attack or defense?
Overath for me could be changed for someone who imo would be a more natural fit. A more stereotypical midfield double pivot.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
In terms of the midfield, attack or defense?
Your attack is awesome, and I liked the defence in both the current and original configurations, albeit with the current setup you've got more obvious width going forward on your right wing which is always more voter-friendly. Overath in midfield is the only one that seems a bit surplus to requirements to me. With Baggio and Kopa's creativity and Voronin also being an excellent passer I'd prefer a more dynamic midfielder alongside Voronin. A runner rather than a passer basically.
 

Theon

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Curious about who you're thinking of here. Rui Costa maybe?
I was half talking generally, as in there’s a really nice Serie A combination there and would be great to have third player with that same Italian footballing ethos.

One of the players I had in mind though was Rivera, think he’d be brilliant there. The other one was indeed Rui Costa!

When MJJ picked Baggio my template to shoot for stylistically would have been a Rui Costa / Baggio / Vieri front three. I think he’s upgraded on both though probably.
 

MJJ

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Overath for me could be changed for someone who imo would be a more natural fit. A more stereotypical midfield double pivot.
Your attack is awesome, and I liked the defence in both the current and original configurations, albeit with the current setup you've got more obvious width going forward on your right wing which is always more voter-friendly. Overath in midfield is the only one that seems a bit surplus to requirements to me. With Baggio and Kopa's creativity and Voronin also being an excellent passer I'd prefer a more dynamic midfielder alongside Voronin. A runner rather than a passer basically.
Ahh yeah that is one of the areas along with fullbacks that I want to upgrade in the next round, didnt get my first choice in both.
 

Physiocrat

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Your attack is awesome, and I liked the defence in both the current and original configurations, albeit with the current setup you've got more obvious width going forward on your right wing which is always more voter-friendly. Overath in midfield is the only one that seems a bit surplus to requirements to me. With Baggio and Kopa's creativity and Voronin also being an excellent passer I'd prefer a more dynamic midfielder alongside Voronin. A runner rather than a passer basically.
Overath is hardly Pirlo. He was a hard worker who got up and down and also carried the ball. I think he gives MJJ extra options as he can drop deeper and unleash some great long passes left to Baggio or right to Kopa. I think he offers something more than you typically get with the two in a 3-4-1-2 and prevents it just being about the 10 for creativity. Also if you think if he went 433 instead with Sammer as a B2B midfielder, Voronin as a DM, Baggio left forward and Kopa right forward I don't think anyone would think Overath was surplus to requirements. I think he's a great fit next to a DM in Voronin.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
I was half talking generally, as in there’s a really nice Serie A combination there and would be great to have third player with that same Italian footballing ethos.

One of the players I had in mind though was Rivera, think he’d be brilliant there. The other one was indeed Rui Costa!

When MJJ picked Baggio my template to shoot for stylistically would have been a Rui Costa / Baggio / Vieri front three. I think he’s upgraded on both though probably.
Aye, Rivera would be incredible in that role too. Just remembered that in the drafting MJJ said he wanted Boniek. As a neutral and Baggio zealot I'm glad he didn't get him as I much prefer this setup. Thinking about it the increasing popularity of 3-5-2s in the drafts makes it even more annoying that Baggio rarely gets any traction whatsoever here, as he could plausibly take either the second striker or trequartista role and would dovetail pretty nicely with a few of that rarefied group of attackers who rank above him.

Overath is hardly Pirlo. He was a hard worker who got up and down and also carried the ball. I think he gives MJJ extra options as he can drop deeper and unleash some great long passes left to Baggio or right to Kopa. I think he offers something more than you typically get with the two in a 3-4-1-2 and prevents it just being about the 10 for creativity. Also if you think if he went 433 instead with Sammer as a B2B midfielder, Voronin as a DM, Baggio left forward and Kopa right forward I don't think anyone would think Overath was surplus to requirements. I think he's a great fit next to a DM in Voronin.
Maybe I'm underrating him but from what I've seen he didn't seem great off the ball to me. Not positively lazy or anything, just a bit ineffectual out of possession. I agree that he was a brilliant passer and that would positively impact MJJ's build up play from deeper areas, but on balance I'd sacrifice that for a high-level grafter in the Tardelli mould.