England vs USA & Croatia | Its coming home

Boycott

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SquishyMcSquish said:
Will be a massive shame if he wastes his career at City, pretty clear he's not going to get any proper opportunities. De Bruyne is out and he's barely even had a sniff.

At the very least he needs a loan.
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If you look at it from his point of view though it's different from Sancho.

Sancho is a Watford boy. He had no affiliation with City therefore didn't hesitate to push for a move. He didn't see a pathway, he didn't trust the club but He trusted his abilities and is vindicated for it.

Foden no doubt trusts himself too but he probably has more urgency to stay at City because it's his boyhood club. It takes a real gutsy kid to walk away from your boyhood club.
 

rpitchfo

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Boycott said:
If you look at it from his point of view though it's different from Sancho.

Sancho is a Watford boy. He had no affiliation with City therefore didn't hesitate to push for a move. He didn't see a pathway, he didn't trust the club but He trusted his abilities and is vindicated for it.

Foden no doubt trusts himself too but he probably has more urgency to stay at City because it's his boyhood club. It takes a real gutsy kid to walk away from your boyhood club.
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Yes I was going to allude to foden but it is different in his case.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Boycott said:
If you look at it from his point of view though it's different from Sancho.

Sancho is a Watford boy. He had no affiliation with City therefore didn't hesitate to push for a move. He didn't see a pathway, he didn't trust the club but He trusted his abilities and is vindicated for it.

Foden no doubt trusts himself too but he probably has more urgency to stay at City because it's his boyhood club. It takes a real gutsy kid to walk away from your boyhood club.
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Sure, but he also has to be logical. At City he has De Bruyne and the two Silva's ahead of him, he simply isn't going to get ahead of those. Sure, Silva is getting on .. but you already have his replacement in Bernardo, and the likelihood is they go and spend 70 mill on another player in that area.

Perhaps he could at least push for a loan, if he isn't keen on leaving altogether. I can't see City being totally against that since he's only getting a few minutes here or there.

If I'm him, I'd be looking at the success of Sancho at a club like Dortmund, and angling for a similar move. Especially if at the end of this season he's still not getting more first team appearances.
 

BaseFishing

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This young England team looks destined to begin blossoming at the Euros in 2 years time. Can't wait.

To those talking about Foden needing to move away from City - the kid is only 18, turning 19 in May of next year. He's probably learning a tonne at the moment, training with Pep and the likes of David Silva, Bernardo Silva and KDB, who all play in a similar position. Seeing that David Silva is getting on in age, I can see Foden getting more and more game time towards the end of the season as Pep's confidence in him grows, especially if one of the aforementioned 3 is injured for long periods after Christmas like KDB has been so far.

Also, another difference between him and Sancho is that for Foden's position, there probably isn't a better coach than Pep, especially given his similarities to the play style of Iniesta. I don't see how Foden will be given as much technical coaching and positional freedom at any other top club to develop in that specific role. Sancho, on the other hand, is already plenty physically developed, so that's another reason why it's been easier for him to establish his place at Dortmund than it would be for Foden.
 

Minimalist

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So I could have sworn I've just seen an advert showing England are bringing out a DVD for their run in the World Cup...

And it really didn't look like a piss-take.
 

BaseFishing

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Raees said:
Is Chilwell better than Luke Shaw?
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Chilwell seems the more reliable of the two at the moment. Also Chilwell is currently 21 and Shaw 23. Shaw looked like he had very high potential a few years ago but then the leg-break happened. Kind of reminds me of the case of Phil Jones in that we might never really see him get close to that potential (although instead of constant little injuries like Jones, Shaw just had a single huge one).
 

SquishyMcSquish

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BaseFishing said:
This young England team looks destined to begin blossoming at the Euros in 2 years time. Can't wait.

To those talking about Foden needing to move away from City - the kid is only 18, turning 19 in May of next year. He's probably learning a tonne at the moment, training with Pep and the likes of David Silva, Bernardo Silva and KDB, who all play in a similar position. Seeing that David Silva is getting on in age, I can see Foden getting more and more game time towards the end of the season as Pep's confidence in him grows, especially if one of the aforementioned 3 is injured for long periods after Christmas like KDB has been so far.
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When has this ever happened with a City youngster though?

He's worked with Pep for a while now and whilst I'm sure that has been a great experience, getting consistent playing time is more important. De Bruyne has been injured for a while and he's received no boost to his game time, nothing but scraps .. it doesn't matter how much wisdom Guardiola bestows upon him if he can't get on to the pitch. De Bruyne will be back soon and then unless 2 of their attacking midfielders are both injured at once, Foden won't even get a sniff.

Yeah ok he's only 18 but he needs to look at City's recent history with youngsters and Sancho's explosion (he is also 18 btw) when he got out of there and got on to the pitch. He's talented enough to be starting now for a decent side I think, or at least being a solid option for one which he isn't right now. At the end of this season if his situation hasn't changed, I think he'd be a fool to not be asking for a loan move so he can have a proper opportunity to prove himself.
 

BaseFishing

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SquishyMcSquish said:
When has this ever happened with a City youngster though?

He's worked with Pep for a while now and whilst I'm sure that has been a great experience, getting consistent playing time is more important. De Bruyne has been injured for a while and he's received no boost to his game time, nothing but scraps .. it doesn't matter how much wisdom Guardiola bestows upon him if he can't get on to the pitch. De Bruyne will be back soon and then unless 2 of their attacking midfielders are both injured at once, Foden won't even get a sniff.

Yeah ok he's only 18 but he needs to look at City's recent history with youngsters and Sancho's explosion (he is also 18 btw) when he got out of there and got on to the pitch. He's talented enough to be starting now for a decent side I think, or at least being a solid option for one which he isn't right now. At the end of this season if his situation hasn't changed, I think he'd be a fool to not be asking for a loan move so he can have a proper opportunity to prove himself.
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It probably hasn't anytime recently, but it has definitely happened with Pep, so that's why I think he should have more patience, especially given that his position is a bit of a specialty for Pep. I just think that given Foden's specific skill set, he would be wasted at most clubs who don't share City's play style.

Apart from that, I totally agree that play time is extremely important and you're right, if he's not getting a good improvement in his involvement in games by the end of the season then he'd be wise to look around at his options.

I just want to see him become a special player because I really think he has the potential and I can see him fitting in so well with some of the exciting attacking players England are bringing through.
 

Raees

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BaseFishing said:
Chilwell seems the more reliable of the two at the moment. Also Chilwell is currently 21 and Shaw 23. Shaw looked like he had very high potential a few years ago but then the leg-break happened. Kind of reminds me of the case of Phil Jones in that we might never really see him get close to that potential (although instead of constant little injuries like Jones, Shaw just had a single huge one).
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Reason why I am raising this discussion is the salary of Shaw vs Chilwell is worlds apart.
 

lilcurt

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Starting to really rate Southgate, he is managing to do what nobody else has managed in the past 20 years in giving England a true football identity. Even more impressive is he is doing it while promoting youth and managing the personalities of the modern player.

I'd be really interested to see what he would do now with a decent club side.

Before I'm crucified, I'm not saying I'd want him to replace Jose. But rather could he replicate his achievements constantly in a club setting.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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BaseFishing said:
It probably hasn't anytime recently, but it has definitely happened with Pep, so that's why I think he should have more patience, especially given that his position is a bit of a specialty for Pep. I just think that given Foden's specific skill set, he would be wasted at most clubs who don't share City's play style.

Apart from that, I totally agree that play time is extremely important and you're right, if he's not getting a good improvement in his involvement in games by the end of the season then he'd be wise to look around at his options.

I just want to see him become a special player because I really think he has the potential and I can see him fitting in so well with some of the exciting attacking players England are bringing through.
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I think it's different managing Barcelona/Bayern. At these clubs you have money but not pretty much infinite funding, and there is an expectation (especially at Barca) that you will use the academy and attempt to bring through domestic talent. I also think that the fact that Foden plays a position which is so important to a Pep side actually works against him, is he really going to take a risk on Foden when he has the likes of Silva and De Bruyne?

There's plenty of clubs out there who play vibrant, progressive football which could suit Foden, I don't think he's so limited that he could only function in a City side. Of course he would have to be careful in who he chooses, but I don't think he would be limited in choices.

I agree he's got fantastic potential, and I just really hope he is looking at Sancho's example. That's a guy who had the balls to go out and seize an opportunity somewhere.
 

Canagel

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lilcurt said:
Starting to really rate Southgate, he is managing to do what nobody else has managed in the past 20 years in giving England a true football identity. Even more impressive is he is doing it while promoting youth and managing the personalities of the modern player.

I'd be really interested to see what he would do now with a decent club side.

Before I'm crucified, I'm not saying I'd want him to replace Jose. But rather could he replicate his achievements constantly in a club setting.
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The influence of foreign coaches in the PL must not be understated. The likes of pep, klopp, pochettino have contributed to the technical development of some key players.
 

Ekeke

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Dunk has been poor on the ball and Michael Keane just took more touches and time than Smalling to play a simple pass.
 

saivet

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Ekeke said:
Dunk has been poor on the ball and Michael Keane just took more touches and time than Smalling to play a simple pass.
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The drop off in quality on the ball is significantly lower after Gomez, Stones and Maguire.
 

Ekeke

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saivet said:
The drop off in quality on the ball is significantly lower after Gomez, Stones and Maguire.
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Correct. Not that I think they're Dunk and Keane are bad they shouldnt be playing in a friendly, I think its fine. Its just that excluding Smalling from doing the same is ridiculous.
 

Pexbo

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Rooney’s a stone leaner and much more mobile than he was in his last few years at United. Hard not to feel a bit sickened by that.
 
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