The nuances of the game won't be understood by those who haven't been involved in the game at the top level, but in general terms I wouldn't say that's true.
Kolarov - "Football fans know nothing about football..."
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Kolarov needs to realise that the entire sport is as exorbitantly funded as it is because of the fans who pay for everything. I'd back the tactical nous of some fans over some of the thicko football players I've seen over the years.
Great post. Couldn't agree more
I don't think it's accurate to say we know nothing about football. We see the training sessions, we probably see more games than a lot of coaches, and we have a wealth of data to analyse if we wish. We know more about the game now than we ever did.
Could the average fan go and replicate Pep? Probably not, as it isn't just what you know about football and tactics, We wouldn't know how you communicate it to the team, build relationships, manage multiple personalities, and get them to deliver your plan. We wouldn't likely know the potential impacts, good or bad of any tactical change made.
So I would say we know a good amount about football, but not enough. Experience absolutely plays a big part.
Could the average fan go and replicate Pep? Probably not, as it isn't just what you know about football and tactics, We wouldn't know how you communicate it to the team, build relationships, manage multiple personalities, and get them to deliver your plan. We wouldn't likely know the potential impacts, good or bad of any tactical change made.
So I would say we know a good amount about football, but not enough. Experience absolutely plays a big part.
Bit of hyperbole from Kolorov. I think there's some truth that as fans we probably think we know more than we actually do . But that arrogance is persistent with people across every subject so nothing to get worked up over
Nonsense. You can know something from analyzing, you dont know everything.
I see his point. A lot of 'football professors' around. It's a fan's perogative of course to whine, cry and throw insults around but half the time, when you're emotionally invested in something, like a football team, you're probably not going to talk much sense anyway, depending on whether your team managed to play pretty at the weekend.....
I think most fans forget the human side of football, it’s not all formations, statistics and who is in what position. If you don’t get on with your manager, a team mate or have something going on in your personal life it will affect your performance, no matter how much you are paid.
It's football, not quantum physics. And we've witnessed far too many horrible managerial decisions that predictably backfired, only to see them fix it with the blatantly obvious. Not saying fans know it all, but at the end of the day, it's really just football we're discussing.
I think there also might be a misconception here. Is it strictly tactics discussions he refers to or a general awareness about a footballer's life and the work they put in on a daily basis?
I think there also might be a misconception here. Is it strictly tactics discussions he refers to or a general awareness about a footballer's life and the work they put in on a daily basis?
Draft forum has been the best part about redcafe these past few Days
This also assumes that all fans of football are the same and of the same understanding. Some might get it, some might not. Not everyone is 100% wrong all time but neither is someone 100% correct either.
I would say it's true about the majority of fans. Watching on tv doesn't really give you the whole picture. I never comment on tactics because I know my knowledge is limited but I do think us fans can appriciate or dislike certain brands of football.
This is the nail on the head. Most fans don't know much, but then neither do most players. The amount of useless pundits and failed managers attests to that. .
Football is a bit up its own arse, I've long thought if it were to truly open its doors to outsiders in management there would be a serious wakeup call. Top class managers and motivators are top class managers and motivators, whether they were once players or not. If you can train someone to lift a living, beating heart out of a person and put a new one in, or direct thousands of troops on a battlefield, i think it's pretty safe to say you can train someone to organise 11 blokes to run around on a football field.
Obviously true
I'm not too sure. Sometimes you can spot trends that would lead to certain things being obvious.
On the flip side what's the explanation when the manager changes and brings in what everyone has been calling for and it a roaring success?
On the flip side what's the explanation when the manager changes and brings in what everyone has been calling for and it a roaring success?
Guys like Naglesmann and Tedesco are managing clubs who are in the CL. One of the assistants at Red Bull Salzburg Rene Maric started off as a blogger.
It could mean a number of things. Maybe the manager has been making those decisions for non footballing reasons. Or maybe that the roaring success of one can negatively affect another of the pitch? The idea here is not that the manager is always wrong, it is that even when they're wrong, it is not for the same obvious reasons that we fans think. Sometimes coincidentally the solution ends up being the same but that shouldn't be mistaken for us seeing something so obviously that the man who sees those players train every day and is armed with all the data in the world failed to see.
He's right.
I know who is best team in the premier League, but I don't know how to fix a bad team
I know a good singer from a bad one, but my advice to a bad singer wouldn't be helpful
I think most of us agree on why United struggle at the moment. Knowing how fix is a different thing thouhg.
Unless you’ve been involved in the game at a reasonably high level, you most probably have the tactical knowledge of a gnat
What am I missing here?
When it comes to the micro stuff, like personnel, formation and match tactics, I am not sure we all agree at all. Everybody seems to have a different view. I personally try to never even attempt to go there as I feel I simply know very little and have nowhere near enough data. If we are looking at the big picture though and things like footballing vision, board, management strategy, ... there seems to be more of a general consensus which is fair since those subjects are not necessarily football related and can be applied to almost any field making one's lack of expertise in football itself irrelevant.
The layman's opinion versus the professional's opinion. You might get the odd gifted amateur but, as a rule, we fans know sod-all about the finer points of how the game is played (tactics and what have you) and rely on the pros to tell us.
True and false
Absolute nonsense.
The fact you are paid thousands of pounds to kick a football in a very organised set-up does not mean you can compare football (the sport) to another highly skilled profession which takes years of hard work and studying to master.
Kolarov demonstrates how deluded these football prima donnas are. A lot of what our fans have said has turned out to be true and including on this forum. A few 'top' reds will inevitably come along and try to act high and mighty but at the end of the day the mistakes managers (like Mourinho) make are patently obvious to the dedicated watcher or match-goer (such as playing dross like Fellaini, Lukaku and current form Matic).
The fact you are paid thousands of pounds to kick a football in a very organised set-up does not mean you can compare football (the sport) to another highly skilled profession which takes years of hard work and studying to master.
Kolarov demonstrates how deluded these football prima donnas are. A lot of what our fans have said has turned out to be true and including on this forum. A few 'top' reds will inevitably come along and try to act high and mighty but at the end of the day the mistakes managers (like Mourinho) make are patently obvious to the dedicated watcher or match-goer (such as playing dross like Fellaini, Lukaku and current form Matic).
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I agree with that. Unless you've played football at an absolutely elite level I imagine any opinion you have it will be at least slightly misguided.
Its false.
Football Manager changed it, everyone can be Fergie.
Mostly true, I'd say. I can imagine fans who used to play or coach at a respectable level being an exception. Plus the odd one here and there.
Rene Maric was mentioned above, but his peers were/are outliers among fans to me, and he always seemed to stand out a tad among them as well.
Rene Maric was mentioned above, but his peers were/are outliers among fans to me, and he always seemed to stand out a tad among them as well.
So LVG was right to play Rooney all that time, we were wrong
Is my answer as well. Like most things it’s about making it as easy as possible to understand for those who are tasked with executing.
Why most pundits are giving shit opinions then? When most of them were pros playing at highest levels.
I'm not having it that fans are never right, and have no idea what they're talking about. They also watch the players every week, sometimes twice a week. They eventually learn players strengths and weaknesses and those that aren't just ranting at the TV sometimes have a point at times.
He may have a point on technique and to a slightly lesser extent, tactics. This is the full time of job of a footballer who immersed in it day in and day out - to get the same insight as an enthusiastic amateur on the outside is difficult
When we are talking about general management of players and a team, then i suspect that fans with some professional experience have more insight that many managers and players who operate in the 'bubble' of the game. Organisation, leadership, creating cooperation and motivating has many similarities regardless of whether it is football, an investment bank, a project management team or the operation of a factory
When we are talking about general management of players and a team, then i suspect that fans with some professional experience have more insight that many managers and players who operate in the 'bubble' of the game. Organisation, leadership, creating cooperation and motivating has many similarities regardless of whether it is football, an investment bank, a project management team or the operation of a factory
Of course are not never right, who said that? My point was that if something is so obvious to fans, then it is by definition obvious to the manager as well. If he does not act on it, it is either because of non footballing reasons like some misguided principle like LvG and his my captain always plays, or Mourinho and his political point scoring with his trusted soldiers. What I am saying is from a purely footballing point of view, the average fan is simply not equipped to detect and understand as much as a professional who lives the game every day can.
Pretty much this. There is a different between the technique and craft of any job, in football's case, it is the matchday tactics and such, and the management side of things. People cannot understand the former in any field really as much as a professional. The latter is different though as it transcends the specific field.
I think a lot of fans understand what they see very well but that's only a very small and obvious portion.
You have to be a very ignorant fool to think you come close to understanding the detail of coaching having never been involved with it
You have to be a very ignorant fool to think you come close to understanding the detail of coaching having never been involved with it
Spot on.