The club giving up on the season at the start of December

Skills

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Blind loyalty to a club legend probably. We started badly but then a few good results came through and we persevered. Then a couple of draws and then a win. Then a defeat and a draw. Then a win and another draw or defeat. Every result was a rollercoaster and in the meantime the team didn't appear to have any leaders and good players were playing badly. There was always the hope that Jose would turn it around, even at the end.

Nobody knows what happened with Hazard that year. I heard a wild rumour that he was having it off with female doctor who ran onto the pitch and upset Jose. Nonsense really so I haven't a clue. I don't know what happened.

We finished tenth that season and were nowhere near qualifying for CL. I was stunned the following season and Conte should have been respected a bit more the following season. The fact we didn't have any European distractions really helped with the PL campaign.
I'm not sure if I buy that tbh. I remember in LVGs first how frustrating it was just playing once a week. A bad result took longer to put behind you, and two in a row would compound the misery for a full 2 weeks..

Europa League is horrid because of the Thursday-Sunday games but CL fixtures are quite easy to manage imo.
 

Skills

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Club giving up in December? Mourinho had thrown the towel in during pre-season when he basically flamed the whole team and said the defence was rubbish and Pogba was a flop. He even had the absolute cheek to tell American fans not to come and watch United in pre-season. Absolute joke

He gave up before the season started.
And the club did nothing about it when it was happening or its still happening. Mourinho's representing the club, and if they're not going to publically condemn his actions, for me they are as good as endorsing them.
 

PoTMS

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If we pulled the trigger earlier, top 4 would've been salvageable. But now it's too late, the gap is too much and we're chasing too many teams.
 

KM

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@Raees given the fact that we're having record revenues and profits, I'm
 

izec

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They gave up on it in August.

This was entirely predictable in the summer (Mourinho himself even publicly predicted it). Nobody can say they weren't warned.
Alternatively, Jose did his best to go the way it did. I mean there is a difference between a difficult season and the season we have. Should be clear by now that Jose gave up early himself, how early is anybody's guess. He didnt get the backing he wanted in the transfermarket to have a chance at a title push and he doesnt care for the rest. He doesnt want to be here long term and he also wants titles. If he cant get them, he leaves and sets the place on fire to get as much money as possible. If he wins, he leaves. If he doesnt win, he leaves too. Thats Jose and we see it at every club, win or lose.
 

CA1

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Woodward should have been escorted out the stadium on the Leicester game on the first night. It'd take 10 fans at most to force him out of his seat as a symbolic gesture.

It can still happen but yes its far too late for this season, as it probably was on the opening day.
 

Raees

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@Raees given the fact that we're having record revenues and profits, I'm
Yes which is a strong case for him not being in breach but what use is that record revenues and profits if it is mostly going in the pockets of the Glazers and the footballing side of things is diabolical and so clearly being run into the ground. In the short term the glazers are benefiting financially from the club still being a behemoth from the reputation built from the SAF era but once things go down hill and they bring the club to its knees they will cut loose and sail into the horizon without taking a hit. I’m not saying this will definitely happen - I believe they will still want the club to get it right but there needs to be some way of holding that cnut Woodward into account on the footballing front.
 

Trizy

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We're a joke of a club, simple. It's almost embarrassing how far we've fallen in the space of 5 fecking years.

You know what's even worse? There doesn't seem to be a way out of this demise. There are no worthy managers available and we have a squad stacked with shit players. In the current market it would take us at least 3 seasons to replace our squad excl. Shaw, Martial, Pogba & De Gea. In those 3 years would we even hold on to 3/4 of those worthy players? Probably not.

While trying to get great players in, we have to compete with much more promising destinations (Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern, City & Liverpool). Which will probably lead to even more overpaid mediocre players.

Its sad but true.
 

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To be honest, I'd given up on this season in August. It was obvious this was going to be a disaster of a year before a ball was even kicked. My only "hope" was sneaking a top 4 finish, that's gone now.
Same here, it's sad what this club has become.
I told friends before the season started that the only positive is that City are too strong for Liverpool, which is a depressing outlook on things but unfortunately it's the truth l.
 

JohnnyKills

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I think they gave up before it started because publicly not backing your manager who only 6 months previous was given an extended contract.

And before I get jumped on, I’m not saying Maguire or Toby would have won us the league.
Agree. This season was a write-off before it even started.

The board clearly don't want Mourinho. If they did, they'd have come out and defended him and they wouldn't have veoted his signings.

But they don't want to pay to sack Mourinho, or generate any share price turbulence from doing it, so they're going to wait until the end of the season before parting ways.

So basically we're sleepwalking towards the Europa League, at best.
 

Infra-red

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Alternatively, Jose did his best to go the way it did. I mean there is a difference between a difficult season and the season we have. Should be clear by now that Jose gave up early himself, how early is anybody's guess. He didnt get the backing he wanted in the transfermarket to have a chance at a title push and he doesnt care for the rest. He doesnt want to be here long term and he also wants titles. If he cant get them, he leaves and sets the place on fire to get as much money as possible. If he wins, he leaves. If he doesnt win, he leaves too. Thats Jose and we see it at every club, win or lose.
Mourinho's MO is something Woodward and the rest of the board were presumably well-aware of when they hired him, because, as you said, he behaves the same way at every club.

So, either Woodward and the rest of the board knew this disaster was coming and did nothing to avert it, or they had no idea it was coming because they hadn't bothered to do any due diligence on Mourinho before they hired him. They are either negligent or incompetent (or possibly both).
 

steakpie

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Woodward is not to blame.

He's supplied Mourinho with plenty of money for transfers. Toby Alderweireld for £75M with one year left on contract? It makes no financial sense. Great decision by Woodward. Maguire? Good player but is his defending really that solid?

Mourinho is the primary cause, 90%, of this failure. His team selections have been appauling, his interviews depressing and has an attitude like a big baby. He should have been sacked at the end of last season, and I wanted him gone end at the end of the first season too.

The secondary cause is the players. No charisma, no bravery, just happy to pass the ball side to side, forwards 10 yards and then backwards. Repeat. Show some urgency ffs, some drive, some'balls', play with charisma.
 

Jippy

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Yes which is a strong case for him not being in breach but what use is that record revenues and profits if it is mostly going in the pockets of the Glazers and the footballing side of things is diabolical and so clearly being run into the ground. In the short term the glazers are benefiting financially from the club still being a behemoth from the reputation built from the SAF era but once things go down hill and they bring the club to its knees they will cut loose and sail into the horizon without taking a hit. I’m not saying this will definitely happen - I believe they will still want the club to get it right but there needs to be some way of holding that cnut Woodward into account on the footballing front.
They'll take a massive hit if the value of the football club falls significantly.
 

iHicksy

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This is absolute paranoia from me. But it wouldn't surprise me if Jose had picked Carrick and Mckenna as his assistants in part to make it harder to sack him as we don't have a competent number 2 to fill in until a suitable replacement was found. Also, the earth is flat.
 

Skills

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Woodward is not to blame.

He's supplied Mourinho with plenty of money for transfers. Toby Alderweireld for £75M with one year left on contract? It makes no financial sense. Great decision by Woodward. Maguire? Good player but is his defending really that solid?

Mourinho is the primary cause, 90%, of this failure. His team selections have been appauling, his interviews depressing and has an attitude like a big baby. He should have been sacked at the end of last season, and I wanted him gone end at the end of the first season too.

The secondary cause is the players. No charisma, no bravery, just happy to pass the ball side to side, forwards 10 yards and then backwards. Repeat. Show some urgency ffs, some drive, some'balls', play with charisma.
Woodward is absolutely to blame for Mourinho still having his job.
 

JPRouve

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Yes which is a strong case for him not being in breach but what use is that record revenues and profits if it is mostly going in the pockets of the Glazers and the footballing side of things is diabolical and so clearly being run into the ground. In the short term the glazers are benefiting financially from the club still being a behemoth from the reputation built from the SAF era but once things go down hill and they bring the club to its knees they will cut loose and sail into the horizon without taking a hit. I’m not saying this will definitely happen - I believe they will still want the club to get it right but there needs to be some way of holding that cnut Woodward into account on the footballing front.
Well, it doesn't. As an example in 2018, 95% of revenues went into operating expenses.
 

Raees

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Well, it doesn't. As an example in 2018, 95% of revenues went into operating expenses.
Understood - fair enough, but regardless if money is being thrown around or not - IMO no one can criticize them for not having invested back into the club, but the question of whether or not they have mis-managed the club from a pure football perspective (which is surely the main purpose of our club/business) is one they can't necessarily escape from.
 

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We're already eight points off the pace in a season where it's looking like it'll take around 75-80 points to secure a top four spot unless two of Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs really drop off. Presuming they don't we pretty much have to maintain the sort of form that would have us competing for the title from now until the end of the season. Pretty much an impossibility when you consider that we've already dropped 20 points at the start of December.
Thats if we believe that we can't go on a good run. City may not drop many points but the rest will. We just need to go on a good run which is more than possible with the players at Jose's disposal. If he cant even get us on a good run of 10 games then he's done as a manager, not just at United
 

Roboc7

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The manager had given up before a ball was kicked, it was obvious this was going to happen.

The board/owners dealt with this by ignoring it and hoping everything would be ok, it’s what they are still doing and will probably continue to do.
 

JPRouve

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Understood - fair enough, but regardless if money is being thrown around or not - IMO no one can criticize them for not having invested back into the club, but the question of whether or not they have mis-managed the club from a pure football perspective (which is surely the main purpose of our club/business) is one they can't necessarily escape from.
I agree but I believe that it's very important to not create problems that the club doesn't have, this football club spend like a drunken sailor, that's the issue. It's not that the owners are "stealing" money or the board is being cheap. The issue is that we lost our only source of football expertise when SAF left and we have never actually replaced it adequately, as long as the board do not understand that SAF was unique and that he isn't replaceable with a single person, we will have the same issues.
 

Raees

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I agree but I believe that it's very important to not create problems that the club doesn't have, this football club spend like a drunken sailor, that's the issue. It's not that the owners are "stealing" money or the board is being cheap. The issue is that we lost our only source of football expertise when SAF left and we have never actually replaced it adequately, as long as the board do not understand that SAF was unique and that he isn't replaceable with a single person, we will have the same issues.
Agreed.
 

giorno

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Makes zero sense. We're barely in December. Top 4 is 8 points away, which is a lot, but also the teams you're competing with aren't exactly manchester city. Still in the CL R16, worse sides than this United have won it

I just don't get it
 

OldPop

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I agree but I believe that it's very important to not create problems that the club doesn't have, this football club spend like a drunken sailor, that's the issue. It's not that the owners are "stealing" money or the board is being cheap. The issue is that we lost our only source of football expertise when SAF left and we have never actually replaced it adequately, as long as the board do not understand that SAF was unique and that he isn't replaceable with a single person, we will have the same issues.
What you describe is probably the cause of the problems we have today and a correct conclusion. More knowledge about how the football works today is needed in the management. Money is there and maybe even the will to get better, although it's hard to believe right now, but the ability is lacking.

Then we have other problems also, not least in the squad, but the reason for them is the basic error in the management. To rely entirely on Mourinho's football skills that are also starting to feel quite outdated have obviously not worked well.
 

Adnan

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Absolutely no way. We are 8 points behind so whoever that new manager would be would have to constantly win while other teams drop, it's not realistic. This season is done no matter what. There was time to salvage it but we have gone past that now and they have given up. There is no coming back from this. Look at our remaining fixtures, we'll finish 6th at best.
We're 8 points behind not 28 points. Of course we still have a chance.
 

Skills

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Makes zero sense. We're barely in December. Top 4 is 8 points away, which is a lot, but also the teams you're competing with aren't exactly manchester city. Still in the CL R16, worse sides than this United have won it

I just don't get it
The club just lacks ambition. It's the root of most of our problems after Fergie.
 

Pogue Mahone

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It's a sad state of affairs. I can see us only winning 1 of our next four fixtures too...

Arsenal
Fulham
Valencia
Liverpool
Wouldn’t be surprised at all if we get two or three good results from these fixtures. That’s been a pattern with Mourinho. Pulling good results out of our arse when we’re looking at our lowest ebb. Of course, all it achieves is prolonging the inevitable.
 

Irwin99

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Was watching a dvd of the 01-02 season a bit back and we were on a terrible run of form that year and 9th place by December 8th following three successive defeats. We turned it around big style afterwards and we were in the mix for the title and champions league up until the end of the season. Obviously it's unfair to compare the quality of that United side with this one but I just don't see a strong enough mentality from the players or the leadership from the manager to go on that kind of winning streak. It really does feel pretty hopeless
 

Dennis Viollet

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To be honest, I'd given up on this season in August. It was obvious this was going to be a disaster of a year before a ball was even kicked. My only "hope" was sneaking a top 4 finish, that's gone now.
same here, it was absolutely preventable from the beginning that we would have been in this state at this point
 

Zarlak

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Absolutely.

S172 of the Companies Act - Duty to promote the success of the company.

To promote the success of the company: A director must act in a way he considers, in good faith, would be most likely to promote the success of the Company for the benefit of the members as a whole. There are factors that a director should take into account. These include, but are not limited to:


- the likely consequences of the decision in the long term;

- the interests of the company’s employees;

- the impact of the decision on the Company’s reputation; and

- the need to act fairly as between the members.

S 174 - Duty to exercise reasonable care, skill and diligence

A director must exercise the same skill, care and diligence as would be expected of (1) a reasonably diligent person with the level of general knowledge, skill and experience that may reasonably be expected of the person carrying out the functions of that director in relation to the Company and (2) the actual knowledge, skill and experience of that director. If a director has, for example, specialist knowledge of a subject, then he will be expected to exercise the skills commensurate with that knowledge (having regard to his functions and specific responsibilities).

To avoid conflicts of interest: A director must avoid situations where he might have a direct or indirect interest that would conflict with the interests of the Company. This is not the same as the duty to declare an interest in a proposed transaction or arrangement with the Company. Conflicts that do arise may be authorised by the other independent directors, the members or the Company’s constitution.

The FA have a document confirming that footballing directors are bound by the Companies Act 2006 including other common law duties such as:
  • the duty to act bona fide in the interests of the Company;

  • the duty to act for proper purposes/ not for any collateral purpose (e.g. not for personal gain, or with a conflicting interest);
You could put together a decent argument (perhaps not enough to be successful but enough to get a claim going) that Woodward has definitely not acted in the club's best interests by a) refusing to back manager in transfer window but more importantly b) failing to pull the trigger when the club is absolute free fall and its reputation is taking a massive hit. He's basically sitting back and not acting in the clubs interests. One could argue that the contract renewals he is offering left right and centre, and the entirety of his tenure he has lacked the requisite skill, care and diligence expected of someone in such an important role at a football club - he lacks the footballing expertise to be employed in such a role. Final point is does he act more in the interests of the Glazers than he does in the actual football club? are their interests compared to that of the club as aligned as they once were or are the Glazers looking to get out of the club soon and DGAF about how the club is being run? or is his 'personal vendetta' against Mourinho blinding him to taking actions which are best for the club?
:lol:
 

Cheesy

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Thats if we believe that we can't go on a good run. City may not drop many points but the rest will. We just need to go on a good run which is more than possible with the players at Jose's disposal. If he cant even get us on a good run of 10 games then he's done as a manager, not just at United
Even a good run will only have us competing for the top four though: to be assured of getting it we pretty much need to consistently hit title-contending form from now till the end of the season, which isn't happening. And even then, we're relying on two of the current top five dropping off significantly, which seems fairly unlikely to happen this season. They'll hit bad patches, sure, but barring a collapse I doubt any of them will have a sub-70 point season.
 

Dargonk

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They lasted longer than I did. From the close of the transfer window I thought this was going to be a long painful season, which will likely be a right off. And unfortunately that is looking more certain each week. Admittedly I didn't think we would be this poor, but fighting for fourth place is the best we can manage this year. Can just pray we get some fancy cup run.

What we need to start to see is some actual progress and build for future seasons. At this point we seem to just falling further down with nothing being done to rectify.
 

beedoubleyou

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Anyone who thinks Manchester United's brand will hold its value with sponsors as a spent force is off their rocker.

Careful Ed, clock is running, and by my reckoning, you'll soon be dead.
 

ind91

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Anyone who thinks Manchester United's brand will hold its value with sponsors as a spent force is off their rocker.

Careful Ed, clock is running, and by my reckoning, you'll soon be dead.
Agreed. It seems the club are happy with their status as the most followed football club in the world without being concerned about the football side of things. This is exactly why we need a DoF. Ed can look into the sponsorship and the DoF in running the club.
 

Wooly Red

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We're 8 points behind not 28 points. Of course we still have a chance.
No club has ever made up for such a deficit by around this time in recent memory. Usually a team that's 8 points behind falls further behind.
 

Minimalist

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No club has ever made up for such a deficit by around this time in recent memory. Usually a team that's 8 points behind falls further behind.
It's almost like there's certain reasons why we're so far behind already. Those reasons/causes just don't disappear.
 

Ekeke

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No club has ever made up for such a deficit by around this time in recent memory. Usually a team that's 8 points behind falls further behind.
On the 4th placed team? Because thats very different to chasing the title winning team who will win basically every game.

The team in 4th is going to drop a lot more points. I'd be very surprised if that was the case.