I agree with Worldinmotion, Pressing is the way forward for our team. We have energy, pace and strength all over the pitch. Plus, I love that style of play.
High pressing
- Thread starter bond19821982
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Bingo. It creates urgency within itself though. You you're all pressing and your team mate wins back the ball it drives you and the crowd.
Do it, Jose.
We have to continue with this.
We have to continue with this.
Glad someone has said it.Tweet
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Soon Pogba will be placed by certain special people in the same basket where Martial is.
something we can see for some 6 or 7 years from our screens, lack of pressing game basically made us top4 team from an elite team. You can win titles playing less aggressive style but you need a lot of world class players who will be great individually, we don't have that, you can see how Mourinho struggles, hence poor ability to create chances and score goals, obviously having someone like lindelof at the back won't give you high hopes to keep the clean sheet either but you can certainly have a go at the title or trophies with a inferior team which works well as a Unit and know how to press.
The deeper we manage to get the ball the more posibilities to lose it on the way, you will always find out someone technically limited who won't be able to pull out a pass needed at some point of the attack so everything slows down and we are waiting for Pogba to make something brilliant out of the blue.
I am sure Lingard would score around 15+ goals for Klopp as an attacking mid every season, Rashford and Martial would have better numbers too, just get the ball closer to goal so our players have less time to think about it and watch everything changes. God I can't wait when we finally get rid of the dinosaur football and get someone who can understand basics of modern football and applies some decent pressing game.
Shame we didn't go for Bielsa instead of Mourinho, god knows how it would end but we would be certainly fun to watch and moved forward, unlike under Mourinho in three years and half billion spent
He's bang on.
After the Spurs game I honestly thought we changed tactics. Even though we lost that game we looked fantastic at times. First game I enjoyed in months and was even looking forward to the next game.
We changed again back again vs Watford and Wolves. Same boring shit with the same shit results.
With 3-4 of the right players we could be fantastic. They don't even need to be world class (see Liverpool's midfield & full backs) for it to work.
Next manager, please.
How high is a high press? Like pressing the opposition centrebacks? if our defence isn't that great maybe we should just mark all their midfielders and attackers and block the passing lanes instead? Force the oppo to drop deep to pick up the ball, or to hit it long?
Saw a stat on the weekend that sums us up, the team has covered the least amount of distance so far in the EPL. Wrong attitude and bar the first 30 mins against Spurs, wrong attitude.
I would personnally love United to play with a high line and a high press.
This team is not built for it though. Its built like a typical Mourinho-team; especially the central line with Lukaku, Matic, Fellaini and Smalling.
When Mourinho purchased Matic and Lukaku and gave them central roles in the team he pretty much set the style of play in stone.
We cant play a high line against a better team even if it might work against a lesser one.
Matic is too slow and will be found out on the counter as a number 6. Lukaku is to heavy and doesnt have the stamina to play a high pressing game. See Zlatan at Barcelona and why Guardiola let him go there.
Smalling needs to be paired with a Blind-type to maybe make him work (it actually did under LvG) or we will be giving away the ball too much. Maybe Fella could play in a high pressing team cause he got the stamina, but with a high line you need more retention qualities on the ball than he has.
Im advocating against changing the style of play (and against what I really want) until we change manager and quite a bit of the essential core of the team. To play a high line and a high press with this team would be footballing harakiri IMO.
That said; with players like Lingard, Rashford, Sanchez, Shaw, Fred, etc, there are players in the current squad that could step up under a new manager and style of play.
It will take investment in the central line and patience with a new manager though.
I want Mourinho out, maybe not nxt summer but sooner or later. That change needs to be meticously planned and executed but its inevitable.
What I really dont want is Mourinho playing a high press and ”attacking” football with this squad.
You dont ask a sushi chef to cook pasta. I made that comparison in some other thread and it still stands.
This team is not built for it though. Its built like a typical Mourinho-team; especially the central line with Lukaku, Matic, Fellaini and Smalling.
When Mourinho purchased Matic and Lukaku and gave them central roles in the team he pretty much set the style of play in stone.
We cant play a high line against a better team even if it might work against a lesser one.
Matic is too slow and will be found out on the counter as a number 6. Lukaku is to heavy and doesnt have the stamina to play a high pressing game. See Zlatan at Barcelona and why Guardiola let him go there.
Smalling needs to be paired with a Blind-type to maybe make him work (it actually did under LvG) or we will be giving away the ball too much. Maybe Fella could play in a high pressing team cause he got the stamina, but with a high line you need more retention qualities on the ball than he has.
Im advocating against changing the style of play (and against what I really want) until we change manager and quite a bit of the essential core of the team. To play a high line and a high press with this team would be footballing harakiri IMO.
That said; with players like Lingard, Rashford, Sanchez, Shaw, Fred, etc, there are players in the current squad that could step up under a new manager and style of play.
It will take investment in the central line and patience with a new manager though.
I want Mourinho out, maybe not nxt summer but sooner or later. That change needs to be meticously planned and executed but its inevitable.
What I really dont want is Mourinho playing a high press and ”attacking” football with this squad.
You dont ask a sushi chef to cook pasta. I made that comparison in some other thread and it still stands.
It's a concern. The main tactic is to contain, and starting mild press around at the centre. Depending on the games, sometimes, Mou will utilised the high pressing starting in their half. It's when we're chasing game which is the problem. No urgency which comes from high intense pressing. Players who doesn't practice it often (or just not a natural in doing it) will lead to slower getting back the ball, and when the game needs them to press hard, it could take a while for them to follow the instructions.
We have plenty natural players for high pressing.
We have plenty natural players for high pressing.
Probably we are the only epl club who doesn't know how to collectively press and pass out from the high press
Look at the way Arnie is brining other players to the play.
Look at the way Arnie is brining other players to the play.
Don't care much for Delaney. However, think it's interesting how vital it has become in the modern game.
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You are right.
To be able to do this, the players have to play as a team and so far we look like a team of individuals.
Lots of reasons for this but the continued changes don't really help.
To play as a team every player has to act as a collective and support your fellow player.
What I rarely see are 2 or 3 or 4 players linking up as a group. Rather, too many passes are made to an individual player who then finds himself isolated and either looses possession or has to pass the ball backwards.
Teamwork requires high work rate, again not something we do well.
It's never been part of Jose's tactics, not sure why that's to change.
Maybe Joses idea of a press worked a few years ago but football is always evolving. Jose sets his teams up to defend in zones. Each one is assigned an area of the pitch they'll press in that area but drop off. If the ball moves out of it. We see a single man press time and time again. Thats not laziness from players its just the tactics as we have seen in many games the players will work hard when allowed too. We are quick to have our wingers look like wingbacks but are always hesitant for our fullbacks to press high up the wing. What has really been the downfall of Jose is his failure to change. Smaller clubs have technical quality and even they play out from the back so we get easily dominated by any team that can play.
Very good post. Its this simple.
It is an excellent article by Delaney tbf. One wonders if he has gotten a ghost writer or something...
That said, that article summarizes what modern football is about nowadays tactiacally.
Its not about how SKY/BT visually sets up the teams. Its not about if Pogba works better in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1. There is no real difference to be fair.
Guardiola works his possession game from the 25 zones (of the pitch) game, where the players has strict instructions how to position themselves depending on where the ball and their teammates are positioned at every given second.
The pressing game is the same; and tbf Mourinho is one of the only modern managers that still does not apply a collective press. He defends spaces instead. Its why United covers (almost) the least distance of any PL team per game. We dont press the ball.
I also have never subscribed to the notion that our team is lazy. We often only see one player press at a time while others cover the space.
I don't see us going anywhere with that kind of football. It's become too easy to play against.
I don't see us going anywhere with that kind of football. It's become too easy to play against.
Higher than people might expect by this measurement:
Explained in the next tweet as "pressing rate is the percentage of new open play possessions for the opposition in which they don't complete three passes in a row (and don't get off a shot or cross)"Tweet
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We moved away from the hard working players who will do it and not be lazy. Ander was the key to this and he's not a main player under Mourinho
Stupid way to calculate it
Only saw pressing in first season, until we were involved in those finals and then stopped pressing in final months, and second season until octobor, that was the best we played under jose in his reign here. Since then the pressing is negligible, only a single player presses to force the opposition wider and we keep chasing the ball and possession for long periods.
So its not like we can't play high pressing aggressive games. Players very well know how to play from back as well. The aggression and grit they showed today was quite good.
I am 100% sure, a forward thinking manager will unleash the real potential of this team. Bar from couple of slow players we have a decent team to play high tempo games.
I am 100% sure, a forward thinking manager will unleash the real potential of this team. Bar from couple of slow players we have a decent team to play high tempo games.
It's just not a Mourinho thing. He trots it out for a couple of games here or there when he feels it's absolutely necessary in specific games but his default bluebrint does not involve it.
If we see the next manager employee a high press while it may take the team to get it spot on, it'll improve us big game.
Liverpool have slow players in midfield but their pressing game is impressive. I never bought into the excuse we couldn't do it
It's more than that. It's just impossible to be good at it if you don't obsessively work on it and make it your number one strategy. That's why it's strange when fans expect us to change mid season as though it's just a matter of working on it during the week and asking players to go out and run.
Exactly. When Conte took over, so many journalists tweeted that Chelsea players are exhausted with Conte's methods as the number of sprints and running sessions was increased. When Poch took over Spurs, same thing was reported.
This is something coaches work on obsessively, same with attacking. Like Hazard said, under Jose they didn't work enough that it became natural style of play.
Spot on. Pressing is a tactical strategy not a speed reliever thing. Barca possrs the best pressing midfield on Earth between 2009-2012. Yet it had Yaya Toure, Busquets and Xavi in it. 1 considered lazy and two proper snails. Iniesta the other guy is normal paced.
I think that's where Mourinho's frustration comes from. It is usually claimed that he is this type of coach or that type which comes with an example from a game here and there when the reality is that his only real style is the lack of one. This was in fact his strength. He could always adapt and use the week leading to a game to devise a specific strategy depending on the opponent. He refused to commit to one strategy and apart from the solid spine he always insisted on, the rest was decided on game to game basis.
His frustration is that this worked in the past. It made his teams very adaptable and capable to deal with different challenges. The difference however is the competition. Pre Barcelona 2009, the rest of Europe was the same as he was. Coaches did not build their teams with the same loyalty and obsession to let's call it Plan A. They were doing the same as him giving him the upper hand because he could outsmart them. The tactical structure of teams were on an even ground, meaning the difference was made by the players obviously and more importantly, the ability to devise a better specific strategy for your opponent. Mourinho was always brilliant at that. Now he is dealing with more refined and well rehearsed Plan As than ever. It highlights the lack of the same from him and makes his teams always looking on a mission to just stop the tide. His ego means he blames the players for their inability to adapt to different tactical demands. He refuses to accept that it's just much more difficult than ever before to go into a season without a clear defined style that has been drilled into the players from day one.
Like anything, we just need to practice during training and apply it games. Eventually we'll get good at it. If we do it sparingly, no wonder we cannot sustain for long periods during games.
Yeah more or less spot on. Game has moved on, managers who adapts will do well and managers who are stubborn will be left behind just like how Wenger was.
I like a half press. When you press at the front and you win the ball back, the opponent is typically already in their end and has all their defenders back. So you win possession back, but still have a wall to get threw. I prefer to concede possession, retreat into your end, and when the opposition is in our end, then you press. This way, when you do get the ball back, there is a ton of space behind their defenders to launch a counter attack. Unfortunately, the way Mourinho does it, is he just has us holding our shape, and when we win the ball back, it's just Lukaku on his own as our wingers are too deep in our end defending to help him out. Look at these goals. On every one with the exception of OGS's first goal, there is a minimum of 3 players sprinting in the counter attack and it happens from our own half with a ton of space for our players to run onto. Now a days we don't see our players making guy busting runs. Everyone is checking in to collect the ball at their feet and looking to take players on rather than let the ball do the work...
That's a good description of Jose's approach. But your criticism isn't justified. The problem is with the whole approach, not with wingers/wide forwards being too deep. They are there to defend space, without them it would be easy for the opposition given the passive half press tactics.
That article is very helpful:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ue-epl-mourinho-sarri-team-news-a8591321.html
Exactly. It takes sustained practice and fitness drills to perfect.
It was refreshing to see some energy in the middle. I think Herrera is vital for us going forwards. He may not be the most technically gifted player, but is Fernandinho?
I think it's hilarious how when we press high up the pitch, for once, Lingard is given a (correct) yellow for his first tackle when Arsenal are on the break. City does this every match, all the time, and they are more or less never given yellows. Torreria should, given how Lingard was given his yellow, have been awarded five yellows last night - but he was just aggressive.
It's quite easy to be an aggressive team that presses high up the pitch when you can foul players on the break systematically, basically tactical fouls. Gary Neville has also spoken about this. I just don't understand why football has such varying rules from match to match. In handball, if you touch the ball after the ref blows his whistle, you receive a yellow card. In football, if you kick the ball out of the stadium, nothing happens. Give yellows for tactical fouls no matter when or where they happen, and teams will have to play differently.
I think when refs catch onto tactical fouls, football will once again change as teams like City, Liverpool, Tottenham, simply can't play such an aggressive line all the time.
I think it's hilarious how when we press high up the pitch, for once, Lingard is given a (correct) yellow for his first tackle when Arsenal are on the break. City does this every match, all the time, and they are more or less never given yellows. Torreria should, given how Lingard was given his yellow, have been awarded five yellows last night - but he was just aggressive.
It's quite easy to be an aggressive team that presses high up the pitch when you can foul players on the break systematically, basically tactical fouls. Gary Neville has also spoken about this. I just don't understand why football has such varying rules from match to match. In handball, if you touch the ball after the ref blows his whistle, you receive a yellow card. In football, if you kick the ball out of the stadium, nothing happens. Give yellows for tactical fouls no matter when or where they happen, and teams will have to play differently.
I think when refs catch onto tactical fouls, football will once again change as teams like City, Liverpool, Tottenham, simply can't play such an aggressive line all the time.
Roll on the next manager.
This.
We're a club in limbo at the moment. Our matches and results are becoming more and more meaningless and everybody is just waiting for a change now.