Rashford probably needs to leave - Jamie Redknapp

mariner85

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I don't understand this idea that a 21 year old, who's already 32 goals for his club can't become a 20+ season striker. Oh, hang on a minute that's 21 year old Cristiano Ronaldo's stats after a season with Sporting and three seasons with us. At Rashford's age, Harry Kane had scored 21 goals (with 16 of those coming while he was playing in the Championship/League1).

Actually, 6 weeks past his 21st birthday, Marcus has scored 35 for us. Very similar stats to Raheem Sterling at the same age. Gareth Bale was 23 by the time he'd scored that many.

That's not a comparison with Ronaldo, Kane, Bale or even Sterling incidentally, because that would be really unfair because we all have the benefit of hindsight. It's too early to know what happens next. Giggs didn't become a great goalscorer but he was really good to have around, Danny Welbeck didn't make it as a striker either but then Rashford's already scored more goals for us than he did.

He's good for the team right now, better than anyone on the bench - that gets him in the team. I think he's going to be great, but if I'm wrong he's still worth a place in our team, so whatever the oppo pundits think he doesn't have to go anywhere, and we shouldn't let him.
This.
Just because Rashford is already a veteran in United squad, easily one of the first pick in the teamsheet people have huge expectations of him.
For me he does very well in football game.
People forget the times before CR7 and Messi when forwards needed a lot chances to score. Also you have to wonder whether he would score and assist more goals if he had similar teammates like CR7 and Messi had, or still has.
I see a true United player giving his best for club despite the limitations that forced upon him.
 

Skills

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I wish we had sent Martial, Shaw and Rashford on 3-year loan deals as soon as we hired Mourinho.
 

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His form has been patchy, but so long as he keeps putting the effort he’s shown since the turn of November he’s in my first 11 every week.
 

shamans

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I don't understand this idea that a 21 year old, who's already 32 goals for his club can't become a 20+ season striker. Oh, hang on a minute that's 21 year old Cristiano Ronaldo's stats after a season with Sporting and three seasons with us. At Rashford's age, Harry Kane had scored 21 goals (with 16 of those coming while he was playing in the Championship/League1).

Actually, 6 weeks past his 21st birthday, Marcus has scored 35 for us. Very similar stats to Raheem Sterling at the same age. Gareth Bale was 23 by the time he'd scored that many.

That's not a comparison with Ronaldo, Kane, Bale or even Sterling incidentally, because that would be really unfair because we all have the benefit of hindsight. It's too early to know what happens next. Giggs didn't become a great goalscorer but he was really good to have around, Danny Welbeck didn't make it as a striker either but then Rashford's already scored more goals for us than he did.

He's good for the team right now, better than anyone on the bench - that gets him in the team. I think he's going to be great, but if I'm wrong he's still worth a place in our team, so whatever the oppo pundits think he doesn't have to go anywhere, and we shouldn't let him.
Because it can still go either way and his game does lack a lot of elements right now that would make him into the consistent 20+ goal striker. He may be able to develop that though. The other thing is being a consistent 20+ goal striker for a club like Manchester United is an insane ask so it's not weird if people say it may not happen.

As for all the stat comparisons, same were made for players like Cleverly vs Ramsey I believe (pass completion and what not). I am just telling you that people do have reason to believe otherwise and it's completely ridiculous.

I myself have doubted Rashford many times after which he proves me completely wrong but then when we goes on another run of games where he is running into walls I start thinking I was right again. Kind of like Man United, Rasfhord has had many false dawns but he can definitely change that and be a top striker for us. To be honest, right now I think he will be a top 6 top 8 level striker but I definitely hope I am wrong.
 

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I don't understand this idea that a 21 year old, who's already 32 goals for his club can't become a 20+ season striker. Oh, hang on a minute that's 21 year old Cristiano Ronaldo's stats after a season with Sporting and three seasons with us. At Rashford's age, Harry Kane had scored 21 goals (with 16 of those coming while he was playing in the Championship/League1).

Actually, 6 weeks past his 21st birthday, Marcus has scored 35 for us. Very similar stats to Raheem Sterling at the same age. Gareth Bale was 23 by the time he'd scored that many.

That's not a comparison with Ronaldo, Kane, Bale or even Sterling incidentally, because that would be really unfair because we all have the benefit of hindsight. It's too early to know what happens next. Giggs didn't become a great goalscorer but he was really good to have around, Danny Welbeck didn't make it as a striker either but then Rashford's already scored more goals for us than he did.

He's good for the team right now, better than anyone on the bench - that gets him in the team. I think he's going to be great, but if I'm wrong he's still worth a place in our team, so whatever the oppo pundits think he doesn't have to go anywhere, and we shouldn't let him.
Rashford misses a lot of difficult chance in easy positions, if that makes sense.

He has an exceptional ability to get himself into fantastic positions to score due to his intelligence and athleticism. The problem is that it's always harder to retain your composure when you're running at 100% pace and holding off a physical challenge that's knocking you slightly off balance.

That's not to say that Rashford's composure is particularly good. It isn't. It's pretty poor, all things considered. But it's one of those things that almost inevitably improves with experience. Until it does, he's going to carry on looking worse than he really is. The optics of a one-on-one miss can be misleading when you don't factor in the physical aspects at play.
 

jojojo

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Unless you have a player with ridiculous amount of talent like Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Ronaldinho, etc, it's no use to build a squad arround a player.
I think managers always have to juggle the pieces to try and get the overall team performance right. There's a difference between that though and trying to find Drogba in a squad that hasn't got one. Sometimes the balance has to shift because those are the players you've got.

A few years back I listened to a presentation to Spanish coaches, given by Guardiola and there's a section that stuck with me. He was talking about how properly understood tactics/formations give you the base, but the final few percentage points that give you a top team rather than a good one is about getting the best out of your best players.

It stuck with me because he illustrated it with our old number 7s - and how SAF's teams changed to match the players he had. "You wouldn't expect David Beckham to do what Cristiano can do. So don't ask a Cristiano to do what a Beckham would do."

I think it's as true now as it was then. It's not so much about building a team around a player, it's about building a team around the collective skills of the players you've actually got.
 

jojojo

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Rashford misses a lot of difficult chance in easy positions, if that makes sense.

He has an exceptional ability to get himself into fantastic positions to score due to his intelligence and athleticism. The problem is that it's always harder to retain your composure when you're running at 100% pace and holding off a physical challenge that's knocking you slightly off balance.

That's not to say that Rashford's composure is particularly good. It isn't. It's pretty poor, all things considered. But it's one of those things that almost inevitably improves with experience. Until it does, he's going to carry on looking worse than he really is. The optics of a one-on-one miss can be misleading when you don't factor in the physical aspects at play.
I'd agree with that and I do get why people get frustrated with him. He does get more chances than other players, but that is because he works for those chances and sometimes he'll get chances that other players just can't or won't get, and sometimes he will try to do it alone because no one else is actually there for the easy pass.

The ones where you think he's done all the hard work then fluffs the shot or the final pass stand out of course, and you can feel his frustration building at times which makes composure a distant dream. The crowd round me on Saturday, in the second half, were desperate for him to score, rather than for just for us to score - there was a lot of laughing in relief as well as celebration when he finally did - like we'd done our bit to help. :lol:
 

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I don't understand this idea that a 21 year old, who's already 32 goals for his club can't become a 20+ season striker. Oh, hang on a minute that's 21 year old Cristiano Ronaldo's stats after a season with Sporting and three seasons with us. At Rashford's age, Harry Kane had scored 21 goals (with 16 of those coming while he was playing in the Championship/League1).

Actually, 6 weeks past his 21st birthday, Marcus has scored 35 for us. Very similar stats to Raheem Sterling at the same age. Gareth Bale was 23 by the time he'd scored that many.

That's not a comparison with Ronaldo, Kane, Bale or even Sterling incidentally, because that would be really unfair because we all have the benefit of hindsight. It's too early to know what happens next. Giggs didn't become a great goalscorer but he was really good to have around, Danny Welbeck didn't make it as a striker either but then Rashford's already scored more goals for us than he did.

He's good for the team right now, better than anyone on the bench - that gets him in the team. I think he's going to be great, but if I'm wrong he's still worth a place in our team, so whatever the oppo pundits think he doesn't have to go anywhere, and we shouldn't let him.
Well said!
 

Kostur

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Oh your one of those game by game fans. I’ll ask you about his improvement when he had a poor game. I’m sure you’ll give me a different answer.
Perhaps you don't understand the word development, at least in the foootball context.
 

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I think managers always have to juggle the pieces to try and get the overall team performance right. There's a difference between that though and trying to find Drogba in a squad that hasn't got one. Sometimes the balance has to shift because those are the players you've got.

A few years back I listened to a presentation to Spanish coaches, given by Guardiola and there's a section that stuck with me. He was talking about how properly understood tactics/formations give you the base, but the final few percentage points that give you a top team rather than a good one is about getting the best out of your best players.

It stuck with me because he illustrated it with our old number 7s - and how SAF's teams changed to match the players he had. "You wouldn't expect David Beckham to do what Cristiano can do. So don't ask a Cristiano to do what a Beckham would do."

I think it's as true now as it was then. It's not so much about building a team around a player, it's about building a team around the collective skills of the players you've actually got.
If you have a manager with a real manager profile, you'll do the things you are pointing out: you have to adjust to the strengths and weak spots of your players.

If your manager has more a "coach" profile, he will try to make changes so his ideas can be implemented, no mather what.

But having a Cristiano Ronaldo makes things easier and you will do some shortcuts in match play, because you know that guy is so influential that the other team will have to cope with him almost individually.

But in the end of the day, if the team desn't work well as a unit, not even Messi or Ronaldo can save you.
 

deafepl

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If we are talking about the end product, so we compare Rashford to the U25 young player like of Asensio, Sane, Dybala, Kane, Icardi, etc

Turning 21 after the season starts

Dybala has scored 25 goals and assisted 16 in all compilation = 41 goals contributions

Sane has scored 21 goals and assisted 13 goals in all competitions = 34 goal contributions.

Asensio has scored 21 goals and assisted 28 goals in all competitions - 49 goals contributions

Kane has scored 21 goals and assisted 8 goals in all competitions = 29 goals contributions

Icardi has scored 20 and assisted 6 goals in all competitions = 26 goals contributions

Rashford has scored 35 goals and assisted 22 goals in competitions = 57 goals contributions, it's still December and the season is not over for him yet.

Only Mbappe is on another level compared to Rashford and has better end products than Rashford.

Being said that, I have noticed that Rashford's decisions are improving given his last few games but if he found his finishing abilities, there's no doubt he would be deadly scorers - 20+ goal season, he is given a lot of chances because his movement off the ball is damn good and get into a position that led to chance creation.
 

Mainoldo

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Perhaps you don't understand the word development, at least in the foootball context.
Well development has got to be classed as improving. If you peak performance is the same as our previous peak performance how can you class it as development?
 

Mainoldo

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If we are talking about the end product, so we compare Rashford to the U25 young player like of Asensio, Sane, Dybala, Kane, Icardi, etc

Turning 21 after the season starts

Dybala has scored 25 goals and assisted 16 in all compilation = 41 goals contributions

Sane has scored 21 goals and assisted 13 goals in all competitions = 34 goal contributions.

Asensio has scored 21 goals and assisted 28 goals in all competitions - 49 goals contributions

Kane has scored 21 goals and assisted 8 goals in all competitions = 29 goals contributions

Icardi has scored 20 and assisted 6 goals in all competitions = 26 goals contributions

Rashford has scored 35 goals and assisted 22 goals in competitions = 57 goals contributions, it's still December and the season is not over for him yet.

Only Mbappe is on another level compared to Rashford and has better end products than Rashford.

Being said that, I have noticed that Rashford's decisions are improving given his last few games but if he found his finishing abilities, there's no doubt he would be deadly scorers - 20+ goal season, he is given a lot of chances because his movement off the ball is damn good and get into a position that led to chance creation.
Is that you agree Rashford is better than Dybala stats wise? Sorry I think I’m the only person here who thinks Dybala is overrated.
 

Kostur

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Well development has got to be classed as improving. If you peak performance is the same as our previous peak performance how can you class it as development?
You can develop different football traits just like Rashford does, which quite often can result in hampering an 'overall' performance (if we understand his 'overall performance' as purely goal scoring that is), especially if your position has been changed, and his definitely has.

So yes, basically speaking he has developed, is developing and there's still way to go for him, frustrating as he can be at times. The attitude and the most important traits that are difficult to improve in senior football are already there so there's no worry that he won't surpass a certain level or stop his development due, say, poor first touch or lack of basic technique.
 
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Yes, let's build the team around a striker that can't finish easy chances or beat a man without kicking the ball 20 meters past him and sprinting to it.

Rashford is a good kid, great work ethic and genuine fan. However, he is not a good footballer no matter what way you paint it. Darren Gibson could also score a banger, just saying.

These so called ex-pro pundits haven't a clue. Rashford's media praise is the biggest lie in football. One can only assume it's because he's English. Mason Greenwood is already a better striker, if we're the build a team around a young English striker it should be him.
Absolute rubbish. Rashford is a very good footballer. Actually watching his all round game properly when he’s on form and not with a blinkered hatred and you will see very obvious qualities of a footballer in the making.

In fact, seeing Lukaku and Rashford together only confirms that Rashford is leagues better technically, and Lukaku has been the most clinical striker in the PL behind Kane and Aguero in the last 5 years.
 

Thiagoal

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Rashford strikes me as more of an Etoo type striker that needs to play high on the left and run on to through balls! When he has it at his feet he rarely beats a man unless he has open space to run into!

I was at the game Saturday and the number of runs he made off the ball was amazing; however they were ignored most of the time by the midfield! Struck me how important a Scholes type midfielder is to get the best out of him! Pogba is probably the only player with said ability, it's just a shame he doesn't possess Scholes tenacity also!
 
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Hughie77

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Asshole, that's all he is, no clue , he's Abu, we all know that, hasn't got a good word to say at all, I blame his white suit red tie blue flower in 96 F A cup final, it's turned him loopy.
He even said before the young boys game away, Dolot has to be good Utd have paid A lot of money for him? Under £20 million I think he was. That's A lot of money in today's market? Deluded go in the jungle next year get a double with your old man only one you will get.
 

WensleyMU

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I don't understand this idea that a 21 year old, who's already 32 goals for his club can't become a 20+ season striker. Oh, hang on a minute that's 21 year old Cristiano Ronaldo's stats after a season with Sporting and three seasons with us. At Rashford's age, Harry Kane had scored 21 goals (with 16 of those coming while he was playing in the Championship/League1).

Actually, 6 weeks past his 21st birthday, Marcus has scored 35 for us. Very similar stats to Raheem Sterling at the same age. Gareth Bale was 23 by the time he'd scored that many.

That's not a comparison with Ronaldo, Kane, Bale or even Sterling incidentally, because that would be really unfair because we all have the benefit of hindsight. It's too early to know what happens next. Giggs didn't become a great goalscorer but he was really good to have around, Danny Welbeck didn't make it as a striker either but then Rashford's already scored more goals for us than he did.

He's good for the team right now, better than anyone on the bench - that gets him in the team. I think he's going to be great, but if I'm wrong he's still worth a place in our team, so whatever the oppo pundits think he doesn't have to go anywhere, and we shouldn't let him.
Refreshing to see some positive words about Rashford instead of the usual "gashford" jibes from the usual suspects who expect every game to be perfection.

Rashford has all the makings of a seriously good player, he's already there for the most part but he just needs consistency. Sometimes he gets a little overzealous and other times he tries to hard. He seems to have learned from those issues recently and looks to have that spark back.

Ultimately he's 21 and as you say, for his age he's not doing to badly at all. He will make mistakes and have off games like any young player does. Shame some have already written him off
 

JPRouve

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I think managers always have to juggle the pieces to try and get the overall team performance right. There's a difference between that though and trying to find Drogba in a squad that hasn't got one. Sometimes the balance has to shift because those are the players you've got.

A few years back I listened to a presentation to Spanish coaches, given by Guardiola and there's a section that stuck with me. He was talking about how properly understood tactics/formations give you the base, but the final few percentage points that give you a top team rather than a good one is about getting the best out of your best players.

It stuck with me because he illustrated it with our old number 7s - and how SAF's teams changed to match the players he had. "You wouldn't expect David Beckham to do what Cristiano can do. So don't ask a Cristiano to do what a Beckham would do."

I think it's as true now as it was then. It's not so much about building a team around a player, it's about building a team around the collective skills of the players you've actually got.
Well said, I have tried to make that point several times without much success. People struggle with two concept, the first is that your best players need a coherent framework to shine and secondly that you need to tweak that framework in order to get the best out of your best players. A lot of people seem to consider that the first one means that the players aren't that good and they think that the former is a capitulation from the manager.
 

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The same guy thought Danny Welbeck will be the 'bargain of the century' for when he signed for Arsenal. Rashford is a brilliant young talent and will only get better. He has a great attitude which will enhance his performance even more. The one thing i want him to improve is his 1v1 with keepers and finishing in general. Needs to be cuter along with Lukaku and have more variations of finishing chances off.
 

haram

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If the media cannot spin it to make it seem like he gets no games, they will say he is being held back by the manager and the tactics. In reality he is young, inconsistent and needs time.

Only one bad game away from them claiming he only plays well for England again.
 

tomaldinho1

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Is that you agree Rashford is better than Dybala stats wise? Sorry I think I’m the only person here who thinks Dybala is overrated.
There's quite a few of us actually.

Rashford is a promising young player, problem is that he plays for a United team that not as dominant as past teams and in a much more competitive league. He is improving and, as long as he keeps getting good game time, the main thing that will improve quickly is his finishing given how rusty he's looked recently. He's got the drive to improve and is technically good enough in my opinion if he works on the mental side, being calmer around the box etc.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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With Martial in such form, it has meant over the last couple of months, Rashford has had to start on the either on the right or up top when played, but he is much better as a left winger and that is evidenced by his peformanes there for both, ourselves and England.

Going forward, I would really like to see Rashford get a run of games down the left, with Martial up top. Just think their styles suit the positions better.
 

shamans

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@Mainoldo omg I can't believe it - I thought I'd get shot for saying dybala's overrated. I'm glad that there is others
How often do you see Dybala play? I'm asking because I don't see him play that often but whenever I do the boy oozes class and literally has magic at his feet. He can score in almost any fashion. But if you see him week in week out maybe I've missed something
 

shamans

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With Martial in such form, it has meant over the last couple of months, Rashford has had to start on the either on the right or up top when played, but he is much better as a left winger and that is evidenced by his peformanes there for both, ourselves and England.

Going forward, I would really like to see Rashford get a run of games down the left, with Martial up top. Just think their styles suit the positions better.

I wish the days of 4-4-2 were back with both Rashord and Martial upfront!
 

Aloysius's Back 3

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How often do you see Dybala play? I'm asking because I don't see him play that often but whenever I do the boy oozes class and literally has magic at his feet. He can score in almost any fashion. But if you see him week in week out maybe I've missed something
It's not that he is a bad player - he is a very good player - but I hear his name said like he is a player that is more consistent than he arguably is. My rating of him is merely narrowed because I have seen plenty games when Juventus need someone to stand up & give them that extra 5% to get them over the line but it's not necessarily him that does that. Again iv seen games when he is class from start of the game to finish. If I remember correctly he has scored a goal nearly every two games or a ratiossimilar & that's great - my problem is that those goals do not necessarily come when Juventus as a club always need it the most.
 

Mainoldo

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It's not that he is a bad player - he is a very good player - but I hear his name said like he is a player that is more consistent than he arguably is. My rating of him is merely narrowed because I have seen plenty games when Juventus need someone to stand up & give them that extra 5% to get them over the line but it's not necessarily him that does that. Again iv seen games when he is class from start of the game to finish. If I remember correctly he has scored a goal nearly every two games or a ratiossimilar & that's great - my problem is that those goals do not necessarily come when Juventus as a club always need it the most.
Similar opinion. I’m not saying he’s overrated questioning his ability. It’s more of a if I have £100m to spend on the next big thing to lead my club into the future. Dybala isn’t top of my list. Being an Argentinian I don’t think they look at him to be the guy to take over from Messi, he’s just not good enough to lead a team ala Mbappe type of big game player. Which is why he’s overrated.
 

Isotope

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I don't understand this idea that a 21 year old, who's already 32 goals for his club can't become a 20+ season striker. Oh, hang on a minute that's 21 year old Cristiano Ronaldo's stats after a season with Sporting and three seasons with us. At Rashford's age, Harry Kane had scored 21 goals (with 16 of those coming while he was playing in the Championship/League1).

Actually, 6 weeks past his 21st birthday, Marcus has scored 35 for us. Very similar stats to Raheem Sterling at the same age. Gareth Bale was 23 by the time he'd scored that many.

That's not a comparison with Ronaldo, Kane, Bale or even Sterling incidentally, because that would be really unfair because we all have the benefit of hindsight. It's too early to know what happens next. Giggs didn't become a great goalscorer but he was really good to have around, Danny Welbeck didn't make it as a striker either but then Rashford's already scored more goals for us than he did.

He's good for the team right now, better than anyone on the bench - that gets him in the team. I think he's going to be great, but if I'm wrong he's still worth a place in our team, so whatever the oppo pundits think he doesn't have to go anywhere, and we shouldn't let him.
Agreed, Jo. People can just watch him to see that the boy has potential to be a top player (whether as striker, or others). I just don't think he has the right manager to develop him further. He's just a stronger him of 3-4 years ago, but not much else developed. Just like Martial and Shaw.
 

Meep

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Things Rashford do good:
  • Movement behind
  • Fast with the ball at his feet (going straight)
  • Shoot
Areas for improvement:
  • Agility - should be able to move more erratically and change direction with the ball
  • Head up - focused on finishing when there are good passing options
  • Left foot - he has one (seriously why don't pros train their weaker foot? so unpro.)
  • Quit when on top - Like Martial, if he succeeds in passing a defender he keeps going till he loses possession
 

simplyared

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What Rashford is doing now is he's increased his workrate to an extent that I'm not sure it's a good thing. I believe the coaches should be concentrating on developing his skills more. Just feel he's trying too hard to win back his doubters and get the manager behind him. Needs to believe in himself more and not give a feck if the crowd get on his back for "making wrong decisions" as so many are so quick to imply.
 

charlenefan

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Read a stat the other day that only Kane has scored more goals for England in the current squad than Rashford (Lingard being 3rd)
 

AgentP

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What Rashford is doing now is he's increased his workrate to an extent that I'm not sure it's a good thing. I believe the coaches should be concentrating on developing his skills more. Just feel he's trying too hard to win back his doubters and get the manager behind him. Needs to believe in himself more and not give a feck if the crowd get on his back for "making wrong decisions" as so many are so quick to imply.
I don't understand this criticism really. Technical ability and workrate are not contradictory to each other. He is not sacrificing other aspects of his game to just run more. Players like Bernardo Silva, Dele Alli, De Bruyne, etc have become better players since they upped their workrate.
 

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Under the bright neon lights of sincity
What Rashford is doing now is he's increased his workrate to an extent that I'm not sure it's a good thing. I believe the coaches should be concentrating on developing his skills more. Just feel he's trying too hard to win back his doubters and get the manager behind him. Needs to believe in himself more and not give a feck if the crowd get on his back for "making wrong decisions" as so many are so quick to imply.
Rashford has that x factor in his debut season, his quality is rather unknown. Now that he made his mark teams will be wary of him and start analyzing his play and adapt to his strenght and weakness.

I remember there's a time when valencia was bossing it as rb, tursn out all you need to do to stop him is just show him his weaker foot.

There are reasons why messi and ronaldo was on a different level, they're so good at several aspect of their game it's hard for average defender (whose skillset is limited) to fully prepare and anticipate.

Forget about top managers, most of us here knows what it means if we're playing rashford, we're gonna employ a quick attacking counter. Teams knows that as well