Nicky Butt, I’ve heard it all now.
Jardim vs Zidane
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I think Ed is all in on pochettino, whenever that happens. He's his dream manager, never complains and goes about his business etc.
Neither.
Wenger till the end of the season for the fun of it and then Poch in the summer.
Wenger till the end of the season for the fun of it and then Poch in the summer.
Is this a joke? Tedesco's Football makes Mourinho's look like Cruyff's.
The way Ed is clinging to Jose suggests he won't have any part in the next managerial hiring process.
If you look at Jardim closely, you'll see that he's the same. He's the ultimate pragmatic and he doesn't have a distinctive playing style (it all depends on the squad) — and he was often criticised for being a negative, defensive manager.
Zidane.
Not the best tactician out there but most certainly an authoritative persona that emits respect and therefore able to create a positive aura in and around the club. The much desired positive atmosphere and the feeling that things will work out well that all three managers in the post-Ferguson era have failed miserably to create.
I also believe that both Pogba and Martial will benefit not only from having a fellow Frenchman but a legend like Zidane in particular at the helm. He likes players who are good with the ball at their feet and can make things happen and, arguably, we don't have more talented players on the ball than these two. Which brings me to the next argument: Zidane's approach at RM was mostly about control through passing, attacking players who can create when in possession and overlapping FBs. We only lack the latter in order, not to reach Real Madrid's level, but to get things going and start enjoying watching our team again. From there we can work our way upward.
I have nothing against Jardim. On the contrary, i consider him to be a very good manager and i won't even mention his lack of experience at the highest level or the time he'll probably need to adjust to the PL as negatives because, at this point, we don't have the luxury to be so picky. It's just that, IMO, he and Poch (who's a favourite on here among the PL managers) base the foundations of their respected philosophies on aggressiveness, dynamism and endless sprints. Now, if you put them in charge of a squad whose work rate is among the worst in the league and the statistics for second balls/duels/tackles won don't do it any favours either, i don't know how many things they'll be able to change and how much time they'll need to do it. Especially if Woodward wants his marquee signings and vetoes other players.
Anyway, Zidane looks to me like the one who can emulate, to a certain degree, what Ferguson did. Establish himself as the boss in the dressing room by keeping things relatively tactically simple while also allowing the more gifted players to flourish.
Not the best tactician out there but most certainly an authoritative persona that emits respect and therefore able to create a positive aura in and around the club. The much desired positive atmosphere and the feeling that things will work out well that all three managers in the post-Ferguson era have failed miserably to create.
I also believe that both Pogba and Martial will benefit not only from having a fellow Frenchman but a legend like Zidane in particular at the helm. He likes players who are good with the ball at their feet and can make things happen and, arguably, we don't have more talented players on the ball than these two. Which brings me to the next argument: Zidane's approach at RM was mostly about control through passing, attacking players who can create when in possession and overlapping FBs. We only lack the latter in order, not to reach Real Madrid's level, but to get things going and start enjoying watching our team again. From there we can work our way upward.
I have nothing against Jardim. On the contrary, i consider him to be a very good manager and i won't even mention his lack of experience at the highest level or the time he'll probably need to adjust to the PL as negatives because, at this point, we don't have the luxury to be so picky. It's just that, IMO, he and Poch (who's a favourite on here among the PL managers) base the foundations of their respected philosophies on aggressiveness, dynamism and endless sprints. Now, if you put them in charge of a squad whose work rate is among the worst in the league and the statistics for second balls/duels/tackles won don't do it any favours either, i don't know how many things they'll be able to change and how much time they'll need to do it. Especially if Woodward wants his marquee signings and vetoes other players.
Anyway, Zidane looks to me like the one who can emulate, to a certain degree, what Ferguson did. Establish himself as the boss in the dressing room by keeping things relatively tactically simple while also allowing the more gifted players to flourish.
That's why I argue with people that you can't put a young manager in a box. Jardim was very pragmatic when he had good defenders and defensive midfielders but he went gung-ho in one offseason when he lost most of the good defenders. It's also worth noting that Jardim was a head coach, he wasn't the one choosing the players, the reason he had to change his style is because Campos brought a plethora of attacking players, even the defenders were better going forwards.
Without google, name a starting attacking player at Monaco this season. (if Falcao is not dead, probably him).
Jardim built a team with Fabinho, Mendy, Mbappe, Lemar, B.Silva. 5 massively rated and all at top club around Europe. Don't think any manager would cope well losing those players and having a budget to replace them with shite.
Jardim played enough beautiful football and winning league in 2016 to prove he has what it takes to be a top manager.
It it was up to me I'd give him the job tomorrow as caretaker with the option of a full time position should he turn things around at the club. By turn things around I wouldn't expect him to make top 4 (Jose's mathematically fecked that goal, along with a new manager, new squad, not his players etc.. all against him). But if there was visible signs of a happy more confidence squad, playing better football and entertaining the fans then I would give him a 3 year deal in the summer.
You could argue why on earth would he take a caretaker job. Well, we're not a small club, we're one of the biggest. Opportunities like these are golden to managers, it's the career goal.
I'd like to see Carlo Ancelloti.
- He's won titles in every major European league
- He's experienced
- He's tactically agile/willing to adapt
- He's got a positive attitude and is a fatherly figure to players
- He allows creative players to express themselves
- He is currently doing well with Napoli
Laurent Blanc not considered?
I'd let Sol Campbell take the job if it meant getting rid of Jose today.
I'm only half joking as well. At least there would be something concerning the club worth laughing at.
I'm only half joking as well. At least there would be something concerning the club worth laughing at.
We should wait until summer and appoint the right person, rather than just one of whatever handful of people are available right now.
Jardim was literally just sacked from his last job. Like Jose was before he came to Utd. Like LVG was from his last club job before Utd. Can we maybe go with someone who hasn't already been binned by another club for not being good enough? How many sackings do Fergie, Pep, Poch, Klopp, Simeone, Sarri, etc have on their CVs? Some managers might be decent despite being sacked before but it must be at bit of a red flag at least.
Jardim was literally just sacked from his last job. Like Jose was before he came to Utd. Like LVG was from his last club job before Utd. Can we maybe go with someone who hasn't already been binned by another club for not being good enough? How many sackings do Fergie, Pep, Poch, Klopp, Simeone, Sarri, etc have on their CVs? Some managers might be decent despite being sacked before but it must be at bit of a red flag at least.
He won the title the first season and came second the next season. It's not like he flopped.
Jardim is a better fit. He has experience moulding a squad from scratch and turning potential into serious talent.
It was a tongue in cheek comment, in any case Jose was their best ever manager for what it's worth.
I didn't realise, partly becaue a part of me also thinks there's some sort of curse/taint to a managers abilities in the PL post Chelsea.
We should go for Jardim. The sooner, the better. Yes he got sacked at Monaco but he was just at the end of a 5 years cycle.
With him, you can be sure of one thing, players will become better. He's also a pragmatist, he will adapt to the squad at his disposal. His first year at Monaco, he was seen as a defensive manager who relied on set pieces. However, once he got offensive players, he turned everything around to have the most exciting team in Europe.
Also, he will never go in the media to complain about the recruitment or his players. We need someone with a positive mentality. No more misery, I am dreading every game with Mourinho in charge.
With him, you can be sure of one thing, players will become better. He's also a pragmatist, he will adapt to the squad at his disposal. His first year at Monaco, he was seen as a defensive manager who relied on set pieces. However, once he got offensive players, he turned everything around to have the most exciting team in Europe.
Also, he will never go in the media to complain about the recruitment or his players. We need someone with a positive mentality. No more misery, I am dreading every game with Mourinho in charge.
I would go with Jardim ... like the 4-4-2 system and players like Martial could flourish under him like he did before. Rashford would benefit as well, I could see both of them up top
Jardim finished 2nd with the squad Monaco currently has bar Fabinho and Lemar who was shit all of last year and contributed to nothing.
So basically Monaco's current squad + Fabinho finished 2nd in the league last year
There's no excuses for the performances they're having this year.
He's only half a season in at Napoli, and it seems he has too much integrity to either leave midseason or after one season. He's in his homeland too, and then there was his Bayern-time. The players turned against him at Bayern. He's likeable though, and seems sensible about building around what you have, instead of completely starting over and revolutionising. Not sure what is needed at United though.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/ancelotti-bayern-didnt-want-to-change/1pddggb6u61bn15crlty6djqop
Is Blanc not an option anymore? Done well with Bordeaux.. Also PSG where he made big egos play well together and brought up Rabiot and other new players. Could be a tad rusty though.
Jardim.
We could happily play the same 442 that he played with Monaco during their excellent run.
In Shaw/Dalot we've got 2 decent fullbacks who are capable of bombing on like Mendy/Sadibe did.
Our central midfield with Pogba/Herrera is more than capable of copying what Bakayoko/Fabinho did.
Our wide players need some attention, but Mata/Pereira could do a similar job to what Silva/Lemar did. Ideally though i'd like to see some new signings there.
Our forwards in Martial/Rashford/Lukaku can do a similar job to Mbappe/Falcao. I have faith in them with a proper coach.
We could happily play the same 442 that he played with Monaco during their excellent run.
In Shaw/Dalot we've got 2 decent fullbacks who are capable of bombing on like Mendy/Sadibe did.
Our central midfield with Pogba/Herrera is more than capable of copying what Bakayoko/Fabinho did.
Our wide players need some attention, but Mata/Pereira could do a similar job to what Silva/Lemar did. Ideally though i'd like to see some new signings there.
Our forwards in Martial/Rashford/Lukaku can do a similar job to Mbappe/Falcao. I have faith in them with a proper coach.
Blanc has a really poor reputation amongst PSG fans and in France but I believe he's very competent, his players have never spoken poorly of his tactics, Zlatan even called him a great tactician recently
He has an issue with handling big egos however, Aurier called him a pussy who sucked Zlatan's D, David Luiz refused to get subbed off despite his number being shown and Blanc let him stay on the pitch.
Their team isn't actually that bad. They signed some good young talent in Tielemans (has been underwhelming but still), Golovin (a good performer at World Cup) and Rony Lopes.
This sounds a bit crazy and somehow very french. Sounds like Aurier and David Luiz were at fault themselves. Don't know if this is good or bad that he didn't sub him. Sometimes taking the fight, gives you more fights. But Blanc was also sacked the year David Luiz left - Why was Blanc sacked?
Aurier is a total idiot, the guy was on Periscope with his friend, started smoking weed and basically talked in front of thousands of people about how things were in the dressing room, he called Blanc a pussy, said Sirigu was shit, and plenty of others things.
Yes both were at fault imo but that also mean Blanc wasn't able to make them respect him as they should have.
Blanc was sacked for losing to Manchester City in the quarterfinals of the CL.
Think the first two points will be top of the agenda for the Glazers when they are Looking for next appointment. If Ancelotti was out of contract he would be near the top of their list, much like Zidane and Contenprobably tip it now.
Don’t think any of those 3 would be a good fit but it’s really difficult to think of realistic alternatives given the way the club is run.
I'd like to think Fred would be his Lemar. Overlapping fullbacks , dynamic midfield and deadly strikers . I hope it happens
Carlo=Zidane=Mouinho.
All prett good managers but simply what United need right now. We need a coach , not someone who will go in and try to apply his tactics on a ready made squad.
People are underestimating how shite we're in football. I see basic stuff, like passing then moving in space to give passing option to other players, these things aren't even done here and it's embarrassing. The team needs coaching badly, they need someone that will take them to training ground and train them on what to do with the ball. No big manager is going to do this, they want a ready made squad to start winning.
So Jardim is our best bet when it comes to that.
All prett good managers but simply what United need right now. We need a coach , not someone who will go in and try to apply his tactics on a ready made squad.
People are underestimating how shite we're in football. I see basic stuff, like passing then moving in space to give passing option to other players, these things aren't even done here and it's embarrassing. The team needs coaching badly, they need someone that will take them to training ground and train them on what to do with the ball. No big manager is going to do this, they want a ready made squad to start winning.
So Jardim is our best bet when it comes to that.
Yeah saw the periscope thing. What a moron. It just seems a bit easy to blame Blanc I think. Both players have a clear reputation, and I think it's tough to see any manager really doing good with them. Aurier has improved his attitude at Spurs, but he really was forced to after all that shit he came out with if he'd still like to have a career at a big club. Still has some red-cards on him. Luiz showed at Chelsea last year again, that he's just not easy to manage.
That's not even close to be true. Not only Subasic, Jovetic, Sidibé and Rony Lopes have been out for long period of times this season and Sidibé has been greatly impaired by his knee issues but Moutinho, Baldé Keita, Jorge, Fabinho and Lemar were all starters last season.
Doubt the board has even heard of Jardim. Southampton for example actually keep a dossier on potential future managers.
“Whether they are fired or attracted to another club, as with Mauricio [Pochettino], you have to be as far ahead with potential coaches as potential players. So I’m always tracking managers and coaches. What’s their style of play, how successful are they, what’s their personality like – so you can be ahead of the game. So I’m always looking at five or six potential managers who have already impressed me. It’s made it quicker. We’re not having off the wall discussions.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11366206/Gary-Neville-The-era-of-the-gaffer-is-over.html
Doesn't mean the right hire is always made but it's better than whatever we have going I'd bet.
“Whether they are fired or attracted to another club, as with Mauricio [Pochettino], you have to be as far ahead with potential coaches as potential players. So I’m always tracking managers and coaches. What’s their style of play, how successful are they, what’s their personality like – so you can be ahead of the game. So I’m always looking at five or six potential managers who have already impressed me. It’s made it quicker. We’re not having off the wall discussions.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11366206/Gary-Neville-The-era-of-the-gaffer-is-over.html
Doesn't mean the right hire is always made but it's better than whatever we have going I'd bet.
Agree with above in respect to a decent coach but I'd rather Mata be no where near the first XI, especially not on a wing.
Jardim makes too much sense and is the best option, so we won't do it.
The greatest quality of both Ancelotti and Zidane is their adaptability
They are literally what you're saying you need. And totally different from Mourinho
Is it ? Carlo failed miserably at Bayern 1 year ago. I don't see any adaptability in it. Their best trait is being able to control the teams ego, provide a good environment for everyone to work in and use the quality they have in hand.The greatest quality of both Ancelotti and Zidane is their adaptability
They are literally what you're saying you need. And totally different from Mourinho
That's not what United need. United don't have a top squad and don't need just a motivational. We need coaching.
Zidane and Carlo didn't need to go to Modric and tell him when to pass and where to move. They didn't go to Ronaldo to tell him where to move and where to position in the box. They simply controlled the egos and applied their in game tactics.
This isn't going to work at United because we're dogshite at football and players are failing to do the basic stuff. What United need is someone who will take players to the ground and teach them how to pass and move in space. No big manager is going to do that.
If Zidane is hired, 2 years in and I bet everyone will still be talking about our lack of identity and lack of any style while depending on individual quality. Will be exactly the same. United needs direction and play style, not just a good in game manager.
He had one good season in France