Ole v Spurs

[Random Task]

Spurs forwards being better is a stretch to be honest. We've scored slightly less goals with a far worse backline. Had Mourinho not thrown a temper tantrum in pre-season we would without a doubt have been better in attack than Spurs, even with our manager downing tools we are within touching distance of you.

It's been obvious that we had a top heavy squad with a bottom heavy manager . Leading to a mismatch of personnel and tactics.

I don't know if it was intended as such but I'm pretty sure Jose would take that as a compliment.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

If Kane is the best striker in world football he'll have that Tottenham side up there with Liverpool and city at the end of the season.

I don't think we'll be that far behind to be honest, but this is odd logic. Liverpool have Salah who is also one of the best forward players in the world (Firmino and Mane aren't half bad either) and City have one of the best strikers in Aguero, to go with the likes of De Bruyne, both Silvas, Sane, Sterling etc. They're both stacked. They also have more depth than we do, and significantly more quality in the centre of midfield.

Kane can't keep us up with those two alone. We're a very good team but they've invested massively and have top class quality in almost every position. Who other than Kane would start for City from Spurs? Eriksen perhaps, but De Bruyne is a little better. Alderweireld is the best bet. Alli and Son aren't better than Sane/Sterling and their midfield is streets ahead of Winks/Sissoko.

 

[LoveFootball]

Yeah guys, don't let a strikers goalscoring record fool you. It's not like that is their very purpose on the field.

This 'thing' is about recognising arguably the best striker in the world right now as exactly that. Kane is a world class goalscorer with fantastic all round ability.

As for the bolded ... you're in fantasy loony land again if you think Martial would keep up a goal a game ratio across an entire season. Totally delusional.

Yeah, as delusional as thinking that Kane has "fantastic all round abilities".. If his abilities are "fantastic", what about Suarez, CR7, Lewa, Aubamyang?

World class goal scorer scores around 40 goals a season, how many times did Kane manage it?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I think Benzema is(was) better than Kane as I don't judge a striker purely on goals and I watched the last 10 years to form that opinion.

If goals are the most important thing for a striker, surely Martial who has a better goal/game ratio is better than Kane, right?

Kane is 25 y/o and have been playing PL football the last 5 seasons, I think it's fair to say he's now a finished item.

The fecking logic of this. You realise that Martial has often played a substitute role, right? He's had far less minutes than Kane so his goal/game ratio isn't accurate. It's easy to have a fantastic ratio when you're playing a fraction of the time, it evens out over the course of the season. Martial isn't scoring 30 league goals even if he plays every single game, if he was going to do that he would have been starting. Acting like you have a player who would be scooping up golden boots just sat on the bench ffs.

Martial has only just really started to get in to the lineup, and he's done so at a time when you're in full honeymoon mode and playing relegation sides, so of course his goal/game ratio is skewed. Acting like this immediately makes him a better goalscorer than Kane is so utterly moronic that I'm struggling to think that even you believe it's accurate. I remember when Iheanacho had one of the best goal/game ratios in the entire league, got similar potential has he?

 

[Dec9003]

I don't think we'll be that far behind to be honest, but this is odd logic. Liverpool have Salah who is also one of the best forward players in the world (Firmino and Mane aren't half bad either) and City have one of the best strikers in Aguero, to go with the likes of De Bruyne, both Silvas, Sane, Sterling etc. They're both stacked. They also have more depth than we do, and significantly more quality in the centre of midfield.

Kane can't keep us up with those two alone. We're a very good team but they've invested massively and have top class quality in almost every position. Who other than Kane would start for City from Spurs? Eriksen perhaps, but De Bruyne is a little better. Alderweireld is the best bet. Alli and Son aren't better than Sane/Sterling and their midfield is streets ahead of Winks/Sissoko.

It's not odd logic at all.
If Kane is the best striker in the world then along with the rest of your side Tottenham should challenge for the league title.
Firmino and Mane are no better than Eriksen, Alli and Son.
City's team is very good, excellent even; but if Tottenham are as good as we're constantly told then I'd expect a title challenge. Anything else should be seen as dissappointment, or that Tottenham are overrated.

 

[breakout67]

I don't think there is much in it either way. Kane walks in to your side (and any side in the world), but the other options are all arguable and prone to fan bias on both sides.

Obviously Kane walks into our team. But we have a lot of depth in there, we had a lot of under performing players as well.

When you look at our forwards, it should in theory be right up there with City and Liverpool, but was poorly used by the manager.

Martial, Lukaku, Sanchez, Rashford is a very good set of forwards. Then you have Pogba and Mata as support. Lukaku and Sanchez especially have underperformed, both went from prolific to barely serviceable after joining us. It happens a lot with us because we just buy big names instead of building a team.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Yeah, as delusional as thinking that Kane has "fantastic all round abilities".. If his abilities are "fantastic", what about Suarez, CR7, Lewa, Aubamyang?

World class goal scorer scores around 40 goals a season, how many times did Kane manage it?

You don't even watch Kane play, do you? His hold up play and passing is fantastic for a striker. He often drops very deep in order to get involved in all round play and a number of ex-footballers have been commenting on this all season, including plenty of ex-strikers. After Chelsea last night Keane said he believes him to be the best striker in the world, and plenty of others who used to play his position feel the same way. I can't think of many ex footballers/managers who think he's anything other than that. The fact you mentioned Aubameyang ... just wow, Kane is far better on the ball than Auba who is a poacher, offers far more in general play.

Kane scored 41 goals in all competitions last season and is on course to score 40+ again. He scored 35 the season before despite us going out in the CL group stages. How many players in English football right now are managing 40+ goals a season?

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

So according to you, which Spurs player is better than Pogba?

In their position? Kane as a striker is better than Pogba as a 10 in my opinion

I think Benzema is(was) better than Kane as I don't judge a striker purely on goals and I watched the last 10 years to form that opinion.

If goals are the most important thing for a striker, surely Martial who has a better goal/game ratio is better than Kane, right?

Kane is 25 y/o and have been playing PL football the last 5 seasons, I think it's fair to say he's now a finished item.

That's a fair enough opinion but Martial hasn't done it consistently enough for his numbers to stack up, if he outscored him for 3 seasons then for sure. However, I didn't say goals are the only metric of which to judge a striker but a very important one.

Plenty of players improve from the age of 25 irrelevant of how long they've been playing, look at Ronaldo (and before you start, no I am not comparing their ability).

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

It's not odd logic at all.
If Kane is the best striker in the world then along with the rest of your side Tottenham should challenge for the league title.
Firmino and Mane are no better than Eriksen, Alli and Son.
City's team is very good, excellent even; but if Tottenham are as good as we're constantly told then I'd expect a title challenge. Anything else should be seen as dissappointment, or that Tottenham are overrated.

We have a very good group of attackers, but our depth and central midfield options are not on the level of those two, so we won't challenge properly for the title. We also lack genuinely great fullbacks and Lloris this season has not been on the same level as Allison.

Some of our players are very good, some of the best in the league. The likes of Trippier, Davies, Sissoko and Winks are not, despite being solid players doing a good job for us.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Obviously Kane walks into our team. But we have a lot of depth in there, we had a lot of under performing players as well.

When you look at our forwards, it should in theory be right up there with City and Liverpool, but was poorly used by the manager.

Martial, Lukaku, Sanchez, Rashford is a very good set of forwards. Then you have Pogba and Mata as support. Lukaku and Sanchez especially have underperformed, both went from prolific to barely serviceable after joining us. It happens a lot with us because we just buy big names instead of building a team.

Can't disagree with much of that, you undeniably have some fantastically talented footballers and it's obvious to nearly everybody that Mourinho was failing to get the best out of them.

 

[Eckers99]

You don't even watch Kane play, do you? His hold up play and passing is fantastic for a striker. He often drops very deep in order to get involved in all round play and a number of ex-footballers have been commenting on this all season, including plenty of ex-strikers. After Chelsea last night Keane said he believes him to be the best striker in the world, and plenty of others who used to play his position feel the same way. I can't think of many ex footballers/managers who think he's anything other than that. The fact you mentioned Aubameyang ... just wow, Kane is far better on the ball than Auba who is a poacher, offers far more in general play.

Kane scored 41 goals in all competitions last season and is on course to score 40+ again. He scored 35 the season before despite us going out in the CL group stages. How many players in English football right now are managing 40+ goals a season?

Seriously, you're tumbling down the rabbit hole if you think you might get a rational debate here.

 

[Dec9003]

We have a very good group of attackers, but our depth and central midfield options are not on the level of those two, so we won't challenge properly for the title. We also lack genuinely great fullbacks and Lloris this season has not been on the same level as Allison.

Some of our players are very good, some of the best in the league. The likes of Trippier, Davies, Sissoko and Winks are not, despite being solid players doing a good job for us.

Are Liverpools midfielders particularly brilliant though? I certainly wouldn't say so, same with their fullbacks; Robertson is good but Alexander-Arnold isn't the finished article by any means.
A supposedly excellent attack backed up by a solid midfield and defence to me suggests that the team should be challenging but perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[balaks]

If Kane is the best striker in world football he'll have that Tottenham side up there with Liverpool and city at the end of the season.

You do realise football is a team game don't you?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I love a bit of banter with the spurs contingent on here, most of it is light hearted, even though there are often differences in opinion (I am of course excluding @GlastonSpur in this!)

However, the spurs bashing is getting a little excessive, and not grounded in reality.

My bad, 2 goals in 8 games against United.

Don't get me wrong, I can see how good Kane is. I also see that he isn't world class. Great footballer and just a level below world class. No shame in that.

Kane is World Class, I can’t see there is anything to suggest otherwise, unless the only WC forwards are Messi and Ronaldo.

I think I'd stick with Pogba, Martial, Rashford & Sanchez but see an argument either way plausable to be honest

Sanchez is utter pants, I’d swap him for any of the spurs forwards, except Llorente (obviously!).

Yeah, as delusional as thinking that Kane has "fantastic all round abilities".. If his abilities are "fantastic", what about Suarez, CR7, Lewa, Aubamyang?

World class goal scorer scores around 40 goals a season, how many times did Kane manage it?

You have named other WC Forwards, well done, Kane belongs in that group. You don’t have to score 40 goals in a season - it’s not just based on goals, but Kane’s hit 30, and been top goal scorer at the WC.

Every Utd fan would bloody love Kane at Utd, we all know he would be absolutely perfect.

Still going to win on Sunday mind!!

 

[LoveFootball]

The fecking logic of this. You realise that Martial has often played a substitute role, right? He's had far less minutes than Kane so his goal/game ratio isn't accurate. It's easy to have a fantastic ratio when you're playing a fraction of the time, it evens out over the course of the season. Martial isn't scoring 30 league goals even if he plays every single game, if he was going to do that he would have been starting. Acting like you have a player who would be scooping up golden boots just sat on the bench ffs.

Martial has only just really started to get in to the lineup, and he's done so at a time when you're in full honeymoon mode and playing relegation sides, so of course his goal/game ratio is skewed. Acting like this immediately makes him a better goalscorer than Kane is so utterly moronic that I'm struggling to think that even you believe it's accurate. I remember when Iheanacho had one of the best goal/game ratios in the entire league, got similar potential has he?

Martial 16 goals as a 19 y/o in his 1st season in a new league in a new country; he then got marginalized by Mourinho who didn't fancy him for whatever reasons we don't know; he scoring at the same rate last season before he got dropped again to accommodate Sanchez. He then forced his way in the team this season and continue on the same form till now under the new manager. I know he can't continue with this form but if played regularly, he'd easily get 30+. Martial goal scoring form isn't something new.

 

[Dec9003]

You do realise football is a team game don't you?

Complete none answer.
Me and Squish are having an actual discussion mate, feel free to read along.

 

[balaks]

Yeah, as delusional as thinking that Kane has "fantastic all round abilities".. If his abilities are "fantastic", what about Suarez, CR7, Lewa, Aubamyang?

World class goal scorer scores around 40 goals a season, how many times did Kane manage it?

He managed it last season. By the way - world class strikers generally do not score 40 goals a season - the only ones to do it on a regular basis in the modern era are two of the greatest players to ever play the game - Ronaldo and Messi.

 

[balaks]

Complete none answer.
Me and Squish are having an actual discussion mate, feel free to read along.

Oh thanks. I do love a good condescending and patronising answer. Good job. By the way I've essentially said what Squishy said - he can't do it on his own.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

He managed it last season. By the way - world class strikers generally do not score 40 goals a season - the only ones to do it on a regular basis in the modern era are two of the greatest players to ever play the game - Ronaldo and Messi.

Don't bother, it's pointless honestly. The guy has his views and he's not going to shift from that position no matter what you or I say, just going to keep shifting the goalposts.

 

[kidbob]

Kane is 100% World Class.

 

[balaks]

It's not odd logic at all.
If Kane is the best striker in the world then along with the rest of your side Tottenham should challenge for the league title.
Firmino and Mane are no better than Eriksen, Alli and Son.
City's team is very good, excellent even; but if Tottenham are as good as we're constantly told then I'd expect a title challenge. Anything else should be seen as dissappointment, or that Tottenham are overrated.

Not sure if you have noticed but Spurs currently are challenging for the league title.

 

[LoveFootball]

You don't even watch Kane play, do you? His hold up play and passing is fantastic for a striker. He often drops very deep in order to get involved in all round play and a number of ex-footballers have been commenting on this all season, including plenty of ex-strikers. After Chelsea last night Keane said he believes him to be the best striker in the world, and plenty of others who used to play his position feel the same way. I can't think of many ex footballers/managers who think he's anything other than that. The fact you mentioned Aubameyang ... just wow, Kane is far better on the ball than Auba who is a poacher, offers far more in general play.

Kane scored 41 goals in all competitions last season and is on course to score 40+ again. He scored 35 the season before despite us going out in the CL group stages. How many players in English football right now are managing 40+ goals a season?

Do you watch football or punditry out of the English/British one?

Salah managed 44 last season.

 

[breakout67]

This all makes sense now, Spurs fans don't know what challenging is so they've thought for the longest time that they actually challenged in 16/17.

You don't challenge for the league in January, that's not how it works.

 

[balaks]

This all makes sense now, Spurs fans don't know what challenging is so they've thought for the longest time that they actually challenged in 16/17.

You don't challenge for the league in January, that's not how it works.

Ok so City are not currently challenging for the title either? Fair enough, sorry for the confusion.

 

[balaks]

Do you watch football or punditry out of the English/British one?

Salah managed 44 last season.

Let's see if he can get anyway close again to those numbers in his entire career before you slap yourself on the back for winning the internet.

 

[Bilbo]

Really, really hope that we just go after them on Sunday. Even if we lose. Let's find out how good we are...

 

[Dec9003]

You do realise football is a team game don't you?

Oh thanks. I do love a good condescending and patronising answer. Good job. By the way I've essentially said what Squishy said - he can't do it on his own.

Not sure if you have noticed but Spurs currently are challenging for the league title.

I'm fully aware Tottenham are currently in the title race, and I'll be disappointed if you're out of it by May.
I just think that given all the plaudits and the quality of your side you should be up there with city and Liverpool and there should be a pressure on your side to be there.

 

[balaks]

Really, really hope that we just go after them on Sunday. Even if we lose. Let's find out how good we are...

I hope its a good game - obviously I also hope Spurs win but I'm in no way confident we will - Utd have turned the corner and look pretty decent again.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Are Liverpools midfielders particularly brilliant though? I certainly wouldn't say so, same with their fullbacks; Robertson is good but Alexander-Arnold isn't the finished article by any means.
A supposedly excellent attack backed up by a solid midfield and defence to me suggests that the team should be challenging but perhaps I'm wrong.

I don't think they're great to be fair, but they work in Klopp's system (though I do rate Wijnaldum rather highly, think he's an underrated footballer). Robertson is the best LB in the league and I'd love him in our team, and yeah TAA isn't the finished article but still, a quality prospect. They also have the best central defender in the league at the moment, to go with one of the best keepers. They're playing exceptionally well and are incredibly consistent in the league, it's a tough ask to expect us to match it when City are struggling with their options.

We have a decent keeper, good central defenders, a solid but unspectacular midfield and excellent attacking options. This could be enough to challenge for the title a few years ago, but City and Liverpool have upped the bar and the fact is they both have better squads than us right now. I don't think we'll be miles behind come the end of the season, but I do think across the pitch they have that bit extra and that'll show come the final table. I don't think it's fair to expect Kane to carry us to a title challenge when the other sides also possess players on his level (Aguero, Salah etc). He will compete for the golden boot once again, what more can you really ask from your striker? It won't be his fault if we don't compete.

 

[balaks]

I'm fully aware Tottenham are currently in the title race, and I'll be disappointed if you're out of it by May.
I just think that given all the plaudits and the quality of your side you should be up there with city and Liverpool and there should be a pressure on your side to be there.

I agree.

 

[LoveFootball]

You have named other WC Forwards, well done, Kane belongs in that group. You don’t have to score 40 goals in a season - it’s not just based on goals, but Kane’s hit 30, and been top goal scorer at the WC.

Every Utd fan would bloody love Kane at Utd, we all know he would be absolutely perfect.

Still going to win on Sunday mind!!

If giving the choice between prime Suarez/CR7/Lewa an Kane who'd you pick for United? And please don't let the English bias cloud your choice.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Do you watch football or punditry out of the English/British one?

Salah managed 44 last season.

Right, so to prove my point a single player in English football other than Kane managed 40+, and he had a total freak season in which his team reached a CL final. He was POTY and a total fecking phenomenon, yet you think to be considered world class a striker has to score 40+ EVERY SEASON as a minimum baseline?

 

[Bilbo]

I hope its a good game - obviously I also hope Spurs win but I'm in no way confident we will - Utd have turned the corner and look pretty decent again.

I can't see you not scoring, but then I can't see us not scoring either. I think Spurs edge it but I honestly don't care that much as long as we try to win it. I'm sick of us bending over against good opposition

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

If giving the choice between prime Suarez/CR7/Lewa an Kane who'd you pick for United? And please don't let the English bias cloud your choice.

What would the answer even prove? You've named 3 indisputably world class players in their prime, including one of the greatest of all fecking time. If he picks CR7 does that make Kane not a world class striker now?

Christ, why I am still even doing this .

 

[balaks]

Right, so to prove my point a single player in English football other than Kane managed 40+, and he had a total freak season in which his team reached a CL final. He was POTY and a total fecking phenomenon, yet you think to be considered world class a striker has to score 40+ EVERY SEASON as a minimum baseline?

Today I learned that to be considered a world class striker you must be on the level of Ronaldo or Messi - anything less than that and you are not world class. That is pretty high standards to have - whats next? Any defender not as good as Maldini or Baresi are not world class? Any Keeper not as good as Buffon is not world class? Where does it end?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I can't see you not scoring, but then I can't see us not scoring either. I think Spurs edge it but I honestly don't care that much as long as we try to win it. I'm sick of us bending over against good opposition

I can definitely see you winning. View us as favourites but I'm never really confident at Wembley (still doesn't feel like home) and you'll be well up for it. Your forward options look hungry and energised and I can see you giving it a proper go, and the talent is certainly there to beat anybody in the division.

Should be a fun game, I'm excited.

 

[Dec9003]

I don't think they're great to be fair, but they work in Klopp's system (though I do rate Wijnaldum rather highly, think he's an underrated footballer). Robertson is the best LB in the league and I'd love him in our team, and yeah TAA isn't the finished article but still, a quality prospect. They also have the best central defender in the league at the moment, to go with one of the best keepers. They're playing exceptionally well and are incredibly consistent in the league, it's a tough ask to expect us to match it when City are struggling with their options.

We have a decent keeper, good central defenders, a solid but unspectacular midfield and excellent attacking options. This could be enough to challenge for the title a few years ago, but City and Liverpool have upped the bar and the fact is they both have better squads than us right now. I don't think we'll be miles behind come the end of the season, but I do think across the pitch they have that bit extra and that'll show come the final table. I don't think it's fair to expect Kane to carry us to a title challenge when the other sides also possess players on his level (Aguero, Salah etc). He will compete for the golden boot once again, what more can you really ask from your striker? It won't be his fault if we don't compete.

Yeah I like Wijnaldum as well he's a good player.
I don't know, I just think that although your midfield options could definitely be better I don't think you're as far behind as you think you are.
The way I look at it is if we had your squad, along with a really good manager id be let down if we weren't near the top at the end of the season.
When I said that about Kane I meant given how good he is along with the rest of your team, I should have articulated myself better.

 

[balaks]

Yeah I like Wijnaldum as well he's a good player.
I don't know, I just think that although your midfield options could definitely be better I don't think you're as far behind as you think you are.
The way I look at it is if we had your squad, along with a really good manager id be let down if we weren't near the top at the end of the season.
When I said that about Kane I meant given how good he is along with the rest of your team, I should have articulated myself better.

Like I said, I agree with you generally - I also expect us to be pushing City and Liverpool to the end of the season and will be disappointed if fall away from them. We should be up there as we have one of the best teams in the league despite an obvious weakness in midfield.

 

[breakout67]

Ok so City are not currently challenging for the title either?

Challenging for the title implies a good chance of winning it. At the moment, Liverpool are favourites with City an outsider. Spurs are not even in the equation, all statistical models have Spurs at sub 5%. Of course anything can happen in football, but when it comes to general performance and remaining fixtures, Spurs aren't in the picture for the title.

City's chances of a title challenge are hanging on a thread and one bad result could basically kill any chance of it. So no, I wouldn't say City are challenging for the title either, and if you insist on them being challengers its a very weak challenge.

Generally speaking you can say a team is challenging when you get to the business end of the season, usually the last 10 games give or take, and are 1st place or a few points from 1st place. 6 points behind in January is not a title challenge by any sensible definition, otherwise the term title challenge would become meaningless because so many teams would be within it that never got close to winning the league.

 

[kouroux]

Learning something new everyday on the caf