Solskjaer is a worryingly easy out for the Glazers

Revaulx

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Good post but I am not sure I agree with the sentence in bold above. While United's spending post Fergie is unsustainable in the long term, I don't think the lack of backing was anything to do with a general tightening of the purse strings.

Blind Freddy could see that all wasn't good at the club in the summer. There was major investment in Sanchez in January and things were not going well since. Last summer it seemed very unlikely that Jose was going to be a long term United manager. So why spend another £70-80m on his players? He's spent just over 2 years trying to sell every one of LVG's signings.

I hope the club follows through on this restructure and I hope they don't sign another player until they do. In the modern era you simply cannot have your entire recruitment strategy being driven by short term employees. It's an outdated structure and I hope they have realised it has to change.

There were comments further up the thread that the Glazers haven't spent enough. I disagree. They haven't spent well enough.

I don't know yet if Ole is going to be good enough to manage the club. The signs are great but it's early days. I will say that I hope he does really well and earns the job on a permanent basis. There is something a bit cheap about just taking a manager from your rivals.

I would love to see United get back to the top under Ole, Mickey Shorts, Carrick and McKenna. 3 great club servants and even McKenna who joined recently is a United fan. It just seems like a great fit. Nicky Butt doing a great job as head of the academy. Jim Ryan's son playing great football as u18 coach. It just feels like United again.
Great post! My feelings exactly. I have doubts about Ole, but would love it for him to succeed. And for God's sake let's give him a chance. Ditto Ed/the Board, who suddenly seem to have woken up.

I didn't realise Jim Ryan's son was the U18 coach. Now that's real continuity!
 

Red_toad

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No it’s not. If OGS stays, he will be backed financially, without a shadow of a doubt. However, for him to even have a chance he needs to do a great job in the next 6 months. It would be poor business to spend lots of money on players if they are not in the (future) managers plans - and we don’t know who that will be yet.
Sorry but yes it is. We sign a quality central defender it instantly improves the team, regardless of the manager. Something the owners were unwilling to do in summer for the manager who's contract they'd not long extended. Any new manager will not demand a new team, they'll retain quality.
Plus how does Ole do a great job if his hands are tied and he cannot improve the team?
 

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Sorry but yes it is. We sign a quality central defender it instantly improves the team, regardless of the manager. Something the owners were unwilling to do in summer for the manager who's contract they'd not long extended. Any new manager will not demand a new team, they'll retain quality.
Plus how does Ole do a great job if his hands are tied and he cannot improve the team?
Considering the club has spent north of £700 million since Fergie retired, I think it's a pretty safe bet that whoever is in charge this summer, will be backed to the hilt.

What makes you think otherwise?
 

wolvored

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I think its obvious we need a RW and CD as a minimum and even if we bought them now, providing they are quality young(ish) players, its going to strengthen a weak squad for the next manager. Hopefully Ole will prove he can do the job and I think Phelan needs to be retained as well along with McKenna. Not sure what qualities Carrick brings to the coaching as he is very new to it and maybe turn into a good coach, but it would be good to keep him at least as a link to the recent past great sides.
 

Red_toad

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Considering the club has spent north of £700 million since Fergie retired, I think it's a pretty safe bet that whoever is in charge this summer, will be backed to the hilt.

What makes you think otherwise?
Not backing Jose for a centre half last summer. No transfer budget for this window. Years of no value in the market under Sir Alex.
There's plenty of evidence there.
But we shall see how the summer goes. This winter I don't see them spending Jack, as no value and new manager might not want a great defender to base his team on apparently...
 

Red Dreams

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While it was clear we needed a good CB in the summer, by that time the board had lost faith in Mourinho. Paying over the top for players approaching the 30s. He had no long term plan to build the club.
Still it was stupid of them to extend his contract.
This time round I doubt there will be any desperate appointment.
No sentimental appointment either. 4 and half years of turmoil at the club will have made Fergie and the board sit up and take a good hard look.
It may end up being Ole or someone else. But we are not desperate anymore.
the worst we can do is appoint Ole. he has a solid group of coaches.

Personally I want it to be Ole. He cares about the supporters and our History. those two factors drive how we play.
 

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Not backing Jose for a centre half last summer. No transfer budget for this window. Years of no value in the market under Sir Alex.
There's plenty of evidence there.
But we shall see how the summer goes. This winter I don't see them spending Jack, as no value and new manager might not want a great defender to base his team on apparently...
Had Jose not wasted £400 million on largely useless players in the 2 years prior, the board might have been more accommodating last summer.

No transfer budget for this window? First I've heard of that.
 

Grylte

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Even if it's a worryingly easy way out for them, it might still be the right way, though.
Go for a young hungry manager who loves the club and learned from the best manager in the history of football, instead of someone who plays good football on a smaller budget, but never won anything.

I'd be happy with both honestly, but i think it's time we put more weight on getting someone who knows the club and the fans' expectations.

Outside of Poch, there really aren't many stand out candidates, and he might be Real bound, for all we know.
 

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While it was clear we needed a good CB in the summer, by that time the board had lost faith in Mourinho. Paying over the top for players approaching the 30s. He had no long term plan to build the club.
Still it was stupid of them to extend his contract.
This time round I doubt there will be any desperate appointment.
No sentimental appointment either. 4 and half years of turmoil at the club will have made Fergie and the board sit up and take a good hard look.
It may end up being Ole or someone else. But we are not desperate anymore.
the worst we can do is appoint Ole. he has a solid group of coaches.

Personally I want it to be Ole. He cares about the supporters and our History. those two factors drive how we play.
How do we know they'd lost faith in him by the summer though? We gave him a new contract in January, then we did alright to finish second. There's no clear indication one way or the other, but if they'd lost faith in those four or five months, why did they wait until December to sack him? It's very poor planning and decision making.
 

fishfingers15

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How do we know they'd lost faith in him by the summer though? We gave him a new contract in January, then we did alright to finish second. There's no clear indication one way or the other, but if they'd lost faith in those four or five months, why did they wait until December to sack him? It's very poor planning and decision making.
If your entire argument is based on 'why didn't we buy a defender', then you end up looking like Sarah Sanders.
 

Red Dreams

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How do we know they'd lost faith in him by the summer though? We gave him a new contract in January, then we did alright to finish second. There's no clear indication one way or the other, but if they'd lost faith in those four or five months, why did they wait until December to sack him? It's very poor planning and decision making.
our pre-season was a clear indication of the breakdown of relationship.

They had to wait until they had a plan about the transition. I'm certain Fergie was involved. Ole and Phelan did not just turn up after a phone call after the Liverpool match.
This was planned months ahead.
 

Foxbatt

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The Board gave Jose all he wanted. He wanted two CBs last summer. He gave them. Now again he wanted another CB for over the odd price and rightly the Board refused. Why should they keep spending money on the same thing over and over again? They got the two CBs he wanted the previous year and now he says they are not good enough and he does not want them so buy him another. Who is to say that by January window he is going to say the one he got in the summer is not good enough so buy him another CB in the summer?
All managers and all at responsible positions have to justify their decisions. No Chairman worth his salt is going to give any manager an open check.
 

wolvored

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My take on it was he started slagging off the club and the players in the summer and I think he doomed himself then. Never bite the hand that feeds you. After all he was only ever going to be a 3-4 year manager at most. His toxicity struck every other team (Inter apart and he left them to manage a 'bigger club' which would have pissed Inter board off) he managed in the end.
 

fishfingers15

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It's not though, and in fact I haven't said that, which makes you look a bit like Trump!
How do we know they'd lost faith in him by the summer though? We gave him a new contract in January, then we did alright to finish second. There's no clear indication one way or the other, but if they'd lost faith in those four or five months, why did they wait until December to sack him? It's very poor planning and decision making.
What is your implication in this post? That the manager is not backed in spite of spending more than 500 million for him? Do you think the club should just buy every other target the Manager suggests?
 

Red Dreams

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He was given the money for all the players he wanted. He fecked up. And he began to sabotage matches because he could not get what he wanted. Clearly the board and Fergie and Charlton met about the situation months before he was dismissed.

He is a calculating bastard. He got the money. But his name is dirt now.
 

Red Dreams

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Me too. We seem to have our romance back, our identity as a club.
Lets remember Busby and Fergie had to build the club up. Ole has a pretty good set up to start from.
What is important though is he understands what the two great men did and what Manchester United is all about.
He has all the people and facility he needs.
If he stays focused, he will succeed...and we will have our club back.
 

Tarrou

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What is your implication in this post? That the manager is not backed in spite of spending more than 500 million for him? Do you think the club should just buy every other target the Manager suggests?

someone said the board had lost faith in the manager last summer, and I replied asking how do we know that for sure. What did you think it meant?
 
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Sorry but yes it is. We sign a quality central defender it instantly improves the team, regardless of the manager. Something the owners were unwilling to do in summer for the manager who's contract they'd not long extended. Any new manager will not demand a new team, they'll retain quality.
Plus how does Ole do a great job if his hands are tied and he cannot improve the team?
You are tiresome. Most people can look subjectively at the targets Jose wanted in the summer and would agree they were not right for us. January is not a great time to buy players - who is available?

You are seriously contradicting yourself - you say a new manager won’t demand new players, but ask how can OGS do a good job without spending money?

I strongly anticipate a lot of spending with OGS (or whoever) as the new perm manager, and a DoF in place in the summer.
 

fishfingers15

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someone said the board had lost faith in the manager last summer, and I replied asking how do we know that for sure. What did you think it meant?
Personally, I think it's a pretty stupid thread based on some really daft conjencture on your part. You think the board fired a manager favored by fans by another club legend to keep to keep the fans onside while the said club legend will toe the party line? Yep, it's a pretty stupid thought
 

Tarrou

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Personally, I think it's a pretty stupid thread based on some really daft conjencture on your part. You think the board fired a manager favored by fans by another club legend to keep to keep the fans onside while the said club legend will toe the party line? Yep, it's a pretty stupid thought
What? :lol: Third time in a row you've just invented something I've said. It's pretty strange and I'm done replying to you.
 

Foxbatt

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This is getting rather silly now. The Board has supported as reasonable as anyone could expect. They gave Jose what he wanted. He wanted two CBs and he got them. Is it the Board's fault that they were not good enough? Or do people think that Woodward decided that Bailly and Lindelof were to be the next CBs of Manchester United against the wishes of the manager and he bought them and forced onto Jose?
I knew he was a toxic person but thought he had grown over it but the pic of what he did at Juventus made up my mind that he never changed. I thought it was the right person for a short term but never expected it to be this short term.
I know that we may get beaten tomorrow but I expect us to give an almighty go and not concede defeat from the first whistle.
 

Tarrou

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Very few people have actually responded to the point I was making but I appreciate those who did. I obviously explained it poorly, and I apologise, but I've clarified it enough times since so continuing to respond to things people think I meant, is a waste of mine and everyones time.
 

AR87

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Had Jose not wasted £400 million on largely useless players in the 2 years prior, the board might have been more accommodating last summer.
See, I don't even think they failed to back him because the players he bought were useless, I believe the reason he wasn't backed was the board felt many of the players he bought were good and Mourinho wasn't maximizing the overall talent at his disposal.

Furthermore, while I have criticized the board for not backing Mourinho once they extended him, there was a rumor we made a massive bid for Koulibaly and allegedly we'd have bid massively for Varane if Madrid had made him available. Simply put the club didn't feel a massive outlay on Toby or Maguire was worth it and I agree with that assessment as things stand currently.

Then there's just the fact that we looks significantly more cohesive immediately following Jose's departure. Obviously we still have much work to do with the squad, but it's not coincidence or just a case of players being happy. They're being allowed to play further up the pitch and press which plays to many of their natural strengths.

If nothing else I think OGS' tenure, if it doesn't extend past this season, will give us a much better indication of who needs to be improved upon in the squad and who should stay.
 

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See, I don't even think they failed to back him because the players he bought were useless, I believe the reason he wasn't backed was the board felt many of the players he bought were good and Mourinho wasn't maximizing the overall talent at his disposal.

Furthermore, while I have criticized the board for not backing Mourinho once they extended him, there was a rumor we made a massive bid for Koulibaly and allegedly we'd have bid massively for Varane if Madrid had made him available. Simply put the club didn't feel a massive outlay on Toby or Maguire was worth it and I agree with that assessment as things stand currently.

Then there's just the fact that we looks significantly more cohesive immediately following Jose's departure. Obviously we still have much work to do with the squad, but it's not coincidence or just a case of players being happy. They're being allowed to play further up the pitch and press which plays to many of their natural strengths.

If nothing else I think OGS' tenure, if it doesn't extend past this season, will give us a much better indication of who needs to be improved upon in the squad and who should stay.
Yeah, you could see it that way I guess. We have certainly seen a marked improvement in Pogba, Lindelof and Matic since Ole took charge. How much of that improvement we can attribute to the new manager bounce (if any) is up for debate. We'll have a fair idea after tomorrows encounter I feel.

Remains to be seen whether the rest of Jose's signings can improve in a similar fashion. I have little hope for Bailly or Fred truth be told. Dalot, whilst clearly a talent, is a long way from being PL ready.

Agree with the rest.
 

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Very few people have actually responded to the point I was making but I appreciate those who did. I obviously explained it poorly, and I apologise, but I've clarified it enough times since so continuing to respond to things people think I meant, is a waste of mine and everyones time.
I guess that making a hypothetical scenario without any basis (tightening the purse-strings, choosing Ole as a cheap yes-man), is always going to cause problems.
How can anybody have a productive debate about hypothetical future scenarios, dreamt up, with a view to expressing a point of personal bias?
 

Tarrou

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I guess that making a hypothetical scenario without any basis (tightening the purse-strings, choosing Ole as a cheap yes-man), is always going to cause problems.
How can anybody have a productive debate about hypothetical future scenarios, dreamt up, with a view to expressing a point of personal bias?
Yeah true
 

pocco

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So he can keep the job almost no matter result and place in the table? That's nonsense.
Well, I know you'd complain like feck, but the attacking football and legend in charge would appease some for a long time and take the heat off Woodward for a bit.

I mean, we're now in the January window and not doing anything, something which posters on here wouldn't have considered just a few weeks ago, but now nobody cares. It's a free pass for a while. It would be interesting to put to test all those that said they'd accept attacking football but winning nothing whilst Jose was in charge.
 

Foxbatt

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The issue now is I feel that the Board has not made up its mind whether to keep Ole or get a new one. My intake is that they want to keep all options open right now. So there is no point in buying new players in January if they plan to get a new manager in the summer. As otherwise the new manager will come and sell all the players and try to get new players just like Jose did with the players LVG bought. If Jose had his way Martial would also have been sold.
So the Board is prudent not to buy anyone new this transfer window.
 

Chairman Steve

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In terms of OGS becoming the manager... or more aptly head coach, a lot of my decision regarding whether I'd want him is going to come down to who's going to be handling the footballing operations of the club.

If we are supposedly moving towards the footballing directorship road like our fellow big names (Real, Bayern, Barca, Juve), then great... Face it, there are no figures like SAF or Wenger anymore who can oversee everything at a club. It has to be delegated out due to the high pressure and high importance at the very top levels. A wrong appointment can have serious consequences if there isn't a proactive structure in place, which I don't think we've had since SAF retired. Bayern have a system where a high-risk appointment that doesn't work out like Klinsmann or Kovac can be easily sorted and fixed with no long-term repercussions, or if a successful regime starts to decline like Ancelotti, LVG or Hitzfeld.

In a hypothetical situation where we'd have a sporting director for transfers, a general manager who regularly works with the first team affairs and a sporting director for the youth academy, then OGS' job is to essentially keep 25 senior players happy, liaise with sporting directors, assemble an 18 man squad for match days and try to win games... which by the looks of so far he isn't doing too bad at.
 

SirAF

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In terms of OGS becoming the manager... or more aptly head coach, a lot of my decision regarding whether I'd want him is going to come down to who's going to be handling the footballing operations of the club.

If we are supposedly moving towards the footballing directorship road like our fellow big names (Real, Bayern, Barca, Juve), then great... Face it, there are no figures like SAF or Wenger anymore who can oversee everything at a club. It has to be delegated out due to the high pressure and high importance at the very top levels. A wrong appointment can have serious consequences if there isn't a proactive structure in place, which I don't think we've had since SAF retired. Bayern have a system where a high-risk appointment that doesn't work out like Klinsmann or Kovac can be easily sorted and fixed with no long-term repercussions, or if a successful regime starts to decline like Ancelotti, LVG or Hitzfeld.

In a hypothetical situation where we'd have a sporting director for transfers, a general manager who regularly works with the first team affairs and a sporting director for the youth academy, then OGS' job is to essentially keep 25 senior players happy, liaise with sporting directors, assemble an 18 man squad for match days and try to win games... which by the looks of so far he isn't doing too bad at.
Agreed 100%
 

Keefy18

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He's turned them from a fourth/fifth/sixth team to a second/third/ fourth team by having some young players like Alli & Kane coming through not by masterstroke in rebuilding a team. He's won nothing and has no experience in dealing with bringing in top class players and a big disadvantage he knows nothing about running a big club. Tottenham are nowhere near the level of United Liverpool or Arsenal in terms of size of club, I'm not talking about recent results.
The expectations of Tottenham are way way below that of United.

There are equally as many unanswered questions about Poch as there are with Ole. Even Mourinho couldn't handle United
Poch may be a good manager, the question is whether he's right for United.
Obviously being a great player is no guarantee of being a good manager. That's not what i'm saying.
The last time Spurs finished at least 3rd prior to him was 1989-90! He's finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd in his last three seasons. Lets not forget the job he is doing with them in Europe also, they are slowly gaining traction in the Champions league. They had an extremely difficult group last season with Real and Dortmund and guess what Paul, they finished top of the group by 3pts. They beat Dortmund 3-1 & 2-1, drew with Real away 1-1. Then drew with Juve away in the next stage. By no means a failure in my mind when you look at them results.

Didn't get much easier for them this year either in the group stage with Barca, Inter & PSV. Yet they finished 2nd and qualified again even if it was by the skin of their teeth, good result against Inter and more so vs Barca at the Nou Camp. They've got Dortmund again now and they shouldn't really fear them considering they beat them twice last time around and they could be in the QF's then.

Those players are as great as they are most likely due to his coaching ability, I mean why should anyone think otherwise when you consider this, how many players who have played for him have regressed and now think of how many have improved? I was making this point whilst all the Jose in brigade were having none of it.

Would Kane, Alli, Erikson, Dier, Toby etc etc be the players they are now if they were guided by Sherwood, AVB or Redknapp (the previous 3 Spurs managers)?

It's a feckin daft thought process when you think about it, we apparently had a world class, serial winning manager in Jose and yet every single player regressed under his tenure ultimately. Great managers like Poch bring out the very best in them. How on earth can you summarize that its basically a fluke for Poch and yet ignore how well drilled a team they are and how well that team is balanced throughout. He's invested wisely and integrates them into the team brilliantly along with talented youth also.

LVG and Jose were two of the most successful managers in recent times and neither could do the job here ultimately so why is success that important in our job spec?

The reality is this, he's spent an absolute pittance at Spurs so I think expectations of him winning it are a farce bar one season where it was a freak occurrence and yeah as I said they messed it up at the end. It happens to all managers at some time or another. A Champions League isn't impossible as cup competitions have an element of luck about them (luck of the draw?), but its a big ask still you'd think.

That leaves the FA Cup and League Cup, both are possible of course but he seems to sacrifice those competitions to remain competitive in the Premier league. Money talks and a 2nd or 3rd place finish is worth a tonne more than a league or fa cup win. Hell even mid table teams like Leicester and the like often field weakened teams in this competitions now in favor of keeping top players fit for the premier league.

Jose couldn't handle it cause he's a narcissistic and after his Real stint he was finished, the death rattle was his title win with Chelsea. Jose was never right for United, ever. He's negative and his football never suited, nor his ignorance towards youth. Poch on the other hand seems very well liked due to his warm nature and positive outlook. He focuses on youth and clearly builds good teams that place well drilled attacking football with exciting wide players... isn't that basically the exact profile for a United manager?
 

foolsgold

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Let's see where we are at the en d of the year; Ole has the job just now and it's his to lose for me.

if we can crack the top 4 and have a decent cup run then I'm all for letting him stay. The team are playing with a smile on their faces for the first time since Sir Alex left, if it's not broken, why fix it ?

I'd rather we invested 50m on a player than giving it to Levy for his manager.
 

Glow

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It should only be fair to Ole if we evaluate him as a possible permanent manager if we buy a good CB now in january. Everyone seems to accept the fact that we need a new top CB, and if Ole is to be evaluated without plying with an acceptable defence, then he might be judged on unequal premisses.
 

Red_toad

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You are tiresome. Most people can look subjectively at the targets Jose wanted in the summer and would agree they were not right for us. January is not a great time to buy players - who is available?

You are seriously contradicting yourself - you say a new manager won’t demand new players, but ask how can OGS do a good job without spending money?

I strongly anticipate a lot of spending with OGS (or whoever) as the new perm manager, and a DoF in place in the summer.
How do 'most people' know who Jose' targets were? Did he ever name them or was it media speculation that you're trying to pass off as truthful?

Sorry but no I said a new manager won't demand a new team, not player. Big difference. Ole has his hands tied and it's an easy out for not investing for the Glazers. We've heard it all before, no value in the market, inflated market in January etc etc etc. The owners should give whoever has the role come summer a start by bedding in at least 1 quality addition to the team.

Oh and please fell free to pass on replying if I'm tiresome, as I'm picking holes in your theories whilst countering with facts.
 
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How do 'most people' know who Jose' targets were? Did he ever name them or was it media speculation that you're trying to pass off as truthful?

Sorry but no I said a new manager won't demand a new team, not player. Big difference. Ole has his hands tied and it's an easy out for not investing for the Glazers. We've heard it all before, no value in the market, inflated market in January etc etc etc. The owners should give whoever has the role come summer a start by bedding in at least 1 quality addition to the team.

Oh and please fell free to pass on replying if I'm tiresome, as I'm picking holes in your theories whilst countering with facts.
It’s not a theory - it’s an opinion! You sound like Rafa and his ‘fachts’, well done.

We shouldn’t be buying players for the sake of it. We all know we need a CB, but it’s better to get it right, and with the input of the next manager/ DoF - neither of which are in place.

OGS doesn’t have his hands tied, he would have known what the likelihood of transfers would have been when he joined. We don’t. You don’t.
 

Red_toad

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Had Jose not wasted £400 million on largely useless players in the 2 years prior, the board might have been more accommodating last summer.

No transfer budget for this window? First I've heard of that.
Sorry but he didn't waste the money, he wasted the talent at his disposal. We've gotten some excellent players he purchased.
Odd how they extended his contract then pulled back from spending on the team.
Nothing spent this window, just dealing with facts. That and we're getting expectations dampened, as the new manager isn't in place.
For me there are glaringly obvious issues with the team and there are players available to resolve them. City didn't sit on their hands waiting for Pep to confirmed in post, they went out and purchased quality players when they became available.