Gonzalo Higuain | Chelsea Player

[Schneckerl]

What's happening here? Why is this fatty getting so overrated! I'm not at all worried about Chelsea getting him. He is 31 and has weight issues and has been on the decline for two years now. Comparing him to Van Persie is ridiculous. If it were not for injuries, RVP would be among the best strikers of this generation.

It's pretty weird how sure people are about their opinion that RVP is a lot better. Van Persie might be better depending on what you value, but there is nothing ridiculous about comparing them.

Giroud used to score 15-20 most seasons for Arsenal actually.

Higuain scored about 1 goal per 90 mins for Real in some of his later seasons IIRC and has the alltime single season scoring record in Italy (yes dependant on favorable circumstances, but still impressive)

edit: 2009/10: 27 goals in 2401 mins which is 26,7 games. Really can't see Giroud showing this goalscoring ability we've seen from Higuain for Real or Napoli.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Again, though, all you're doing is looking for evidence to fit your belief, not assessing all of the evidence collectively. At no point did you try and find any evidence that contradicts your view. And your view is undoubtedly influenced by the football you're exposed to most often, and the conversations that surround it.

All I can say is after watching a ludicrous amount of football about 4 years ago, I dont share your definition or perception of the significant differences in pace of the game across leagues. The differences are there but subtle, hard to generalise, hard to describe, and hard to draw inferences from. That ludicrous amount of football includes watching every game of every World Cup / Euros winner since 1958, every European Cup final since 1959, and a random assortment of league games from di Stefano through to Rivaldo.

I don't say that to present myself as some kind of football guru, or wear it as a badge of honour - I think it's a very weird thing to do. But it does give you a different perspective on modern football and the discussions that surround it. Particularly listening to commentators in the 60s describe the football. My view might be totally wrong but it isn't from a position of ignorance, essentially.

Honestly last season I watched more Serie A than Premier League football. In particular a shit ton of Napoli, Juventus and A.C Milan. I had a bit of a uh ... gambling 'problem' and was even watching Russian/belgian league matches. I'm exposed more to the Premier League but I don't feel like I pay too much attention to the commentary and almost always switch off when they're getting the knitting out at half time. That's not to say exposure to English media won't have had an impact on me, but I'd say it's limited.

That's fair, we'll agree to disagree. I do think there's exceptions to the rule and it's not always true that PL=fast Serie A=slow, but in general I find a difference in intensity and speed. Different football culture in both countries, and I do feel this impacts the coaches, the managers etc, and how they want their teams to play. Maybe it is a case of confirmation bias, but I'm not sure. I suppose the average distance covered stats for PL teams vs Serie A teams would be interesting to look at.

 

[SwansonsTache]

Starting up front for Brighton today. He has shed a bit of hair, still a lardass though.

 

[Brwned]

Honestly last season I watched more Serie A than Premier League football. In particular a shit ton of Napoli, Juventus and A.C Milan. I had a bit of a uh ... gambling 'problem' and was even watching Russian/belgian league matches. I'm exposed more to the Premier League but I don't feel like I pay too much attention to the commentary and almost always switch off when they're getting the knitting out at half time. That's not to say exposure to English media won't have had an impact on me, but I'd say it's limited.

That's fair, we'll agree to disagree. I do think there's exceptions to the rule and it's not always true that PL=fast Serie A=slow, but in general I find a difference in intensity and speed. Different football culture in both countries, and I do feel this impacts the coaches, the managers etc, and how they want their teams to play. Maybe it is a case of confirmation bias, but I'm not sure. I suppose the average distance covered stats for PL teams vs Serie A teams would be interesting to look at.

Fair enough! For what it's worth, I do think you might be right. Just from looking at all of the info - the eyeball test, the secondary data - it's never seemed obviously true to me. Part of the reason I think Higuain might fail is because I do think it's possible this difference in pace is bigger than it seems to me, and is a huge barrier to overcome. I'd give him a 50-50 chance of being a success (and if he has a season like Zlatan, that's a success in my book).

If he doesn't succeed, there is the caveat that he's already started a downward spiral after being kicked to the side by Juve. However you'd think reuniting with Sarri should overcome that straight away. So if he doesn't succeed it's more evidence for the theory, but I don't think it proves it. On the other hand if he is an unequivocal success, after Zlatan 2 years earlier, it will make me a lot more sceptical of the idea.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

55 in 105 for Juve. 91 in 146 for Napoli 121 in 264 for Madrid. That's a pretty decent record.

We can all point to his 8 goals in 22 for Milan, but name me one striker who has done the business there since Ibra? That Milan side is also very poor in comparison to other sides they have had. I dont think he will flop, but if he does, so what in the summer we send him back.

I do think though, that he never wanted the Milan move originally, and wanted to come here last summer. Part of the reason im so confident he will score goals for us, is Sarri. Higuain was incredible under him at Napoli.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

It's pretty weird how sure people are about their opinion that RVP is a lot better. Van Persie might be better depending on what you value, but there is nothing ridiculous about comparing them.

Higuain scored about 1 goal per 90 mins for Real in some of his later seasons IIRC and has the alltime single season scoring record in Italy (yes dependant on favorable circumstances, but still impressive)

edit: 2009/10: 27 goals in 2401 mins which is 26,7 games. Really can't see Giroud showing this goalscoring ability we've seen from Higuain for Real or Napoli.

Higuain is a no brainer for us. He will get us roughly 10-15 goals before end of the season. I just think he'd have buried half the chances Morata fluffed

 

[Kush]

Starting up front for Brighton today. He has shed a bit of hair, still a lardass though.

I don't think anyone is debating who's had a better career, Higuain wins that argument by a country mile. It's the narrative of him being 2nd best striker of his generation behind Suarez which didn't stop him being binned from Real in favor of Benzema and Manduzkic being kept over him at Juventus.

RVP's star burned for a brief period ala Torres, mainly 3 seasons but he played at a level unmatched by Higuain. People forget how ruthless RVP was in his sole season under Fergie, he scored away to Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and City in that year. 3 of them were winners, while the other two a solitary goal in a draw. He took the burden of being a main man at a giant club and succeeded in big matches, Higuain has bottled that chance throughout his career.

Even the game against Spurs last year actually sums him up, scores 2 fantastic goals to get Juve off to a flyer. Has the chance to finish the tie and get a hat-trick, shits him self with the penalty and Spurs go on the other end to score. Misses chances in 2nd half eventually leading to a Spurs equalizer. Juve were grateful because Spurs in true fashion bottled that tie even harder or else Higuain could've very well cost them the tie.

I still think he'll succeed at Chelsea, he knows how to put the ball in the net and that's all they need right now to finish in CL places.

 

[Brwned]

I don't think anyone is debating who's had a better career, Higuain wins that argument by a country mile. It's the narrative of him being 2nd best striker of his generation behind Suarez which didn't stop him being binned from Real in favor of Benzema and Manduzkic being kept over him at Juventus.

RVP's star burned for a brief period ala Torres, mainly 3 seasons but he played at a level unmatched by Higuain. People forget how ruthless RVP was in his sole season under Fergie, he scored away to Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and City in that year. 3 of them were winners, while the other two a solitary goal in a draw. He took the burden of being a main man at a giant club and succeeded in big matches, Higuain has bottled that chance throughout his career.

Even the game against Spurs last year actually sums him up, scores 2 fantastic goals to get Juve off to a flyer. Has the chance to finish the tie and get a hat-trick, shits him self with the penalty and Spurs go on the other end to score. Misses chances in 2nd half eventually leading to a Spurs equalizer. Juve were grateful because Spurs in true fashion bottled that tie even harder or else Higuain could've very well cost them the tie.

I still think he'll succeed at Chelsea, he knows how to put the ball in the net and that's all they need right now to finish in CL places.

Most people don't forget that, in fairness. The point people are making is that this applies to Higuain also, in 08/09 for Madrid and in 14/15 for Napoli. Maybe other seasons in Italy too - I'm only very familiar with that spectacular season at Madrid.

For Napoli he scored against Juve, Milan, Inter and Fiorentina i.e. 4 of the remaining top 5 in the league, including a goal and assist in the 2-1 win vs. Juve. For Madrid he did similarly, scoring against Barcelona, Sevilla, Valencia, Bilbao and Villareal. Scored some brilliant, decisive goals that year too, just like van Persie.

They both have proven records of scoring against the best teams in the league, in multiple seasons. It's only PL fans who don't recognise that's true about Higuain, in the same way it wasn't recognised about Zlatan until that game against England. It's a narrative not a representation if the facts.

On the other hand, van Persie let us down in the CL in the same way Higuain frequently has. Some people will debate which is more important, but you can't apply different rules to the same scenario. Either they are both bottlers on the big stage, or both elite strikers with a patchy record outside the league.

 

[Peyroteo]

I don't think anyone is debating who's had a better career, Higuain wins that argument by a country mile. It's the narrative of him being 2nd best striker of his generation behind Suarez which didn't stop him being binned from Real in favor of Benzema and Manduzkic being kept over him at Juventus.

Both of those things had nothing to do with Higuain's quality. He was always every bit as good at Benzema in Madrid and was obviously a superior player to Mandzukic. He left because Ronaldo came in and they couldn't pay huge wages to both of them.

He was fantastic for Juventus, worth every penny of the 90 million fee.

 

[SCP]

Both of those things had nothing to do with Higuain's quality. He was always every bit as good at Benzema in Madrid and was obviously a superior player to Mandzukic. He left because Ronaldo came in and they couldn't pay huge wages to both of them.

He was fantastic for Juventus, worth every penny of the 90 million fee.

Mandzukic is very underrated. But I already made my points today helping the Higuain cause.

 

[giorno]

Hum, I have to jump here. Don't agree Arsenal is better than Inter. The current United yes, Chelsea and Spurs better, but not so much.

Agree with this. Napoli are chelsea/spurs/united level, inter are arsenal level, and then there's milan, roma, lazio and atalanta who are better then the 7th best PL side.

 

[giorno]

Saying Higuain is the most complete and well rounded striker of his generation together with suarez(which is true) doesn't mean he's the second best striker of his generation(he's not)

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Isn't Milan supposed to pay 56m for him at the end of the season? Now he is going to Chelsea means the agreement with Milan no longer exists? Where will Higuain return after his loan is over at Chelsea and who is gonna pay the fee?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Isn't Milan supposed to pay 56m for him at the end of the season? Now he is going to Chelsea means the agreement with Milan no exists? Where will Higuain return after his loan is over at Chelsea and who is gonna pay the fee?

I guess Milan had the same deal with Juve as Chelsea have. Loan fee plus optional buy clause which is activated if one of clauses are met. I read that one of them is that he must score 15 goals

 

[cyberman]

Saying Higuain is the most complete and well rounded striker of his generation together with suarez(which is true) doesn't mean he's the second best striker of his generation(he's not)

Aguero would like to have a word.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Saying Higuain is the most complete and well rounded striker of his generation together with suarez(which is true) doesn't mean he's the second best striker of his generation(he's not)

His mid drift is well rounded.

What the hell does complete or well rounddd mean anyway, it’s a really pointless argument - like you say, he’s clearly nowhere near the 2nd best striker of his generation.

 

[giorno]

His mid drift is well rounded.

What the hell does complete or well rounddd mean anyway, it’s a really pointless argument - like you say, he’s clearly nowhere near the 2nd best striker of his generation.

It means he's the one who can do the most things at a high level. The most adaptable depending on what you need him to do. He's the swiss-army knife of strikers.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It means he's the one who can do the most things at a high level. The most adaptable depending on what you need him to do. He's the swiss-army knife of strikers.

I understand the concept, but not why it’s anything to rate players on, it doesn’t mean anything. Sounds like a jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[giorno]

I understand the concept, but not why it’s anything to rate players on, it doesn’t mean anything. Sounds like a jack of all trades, master of none.

Not quite sure to be honest

Tbf, it's less jack of all trades master of none and more master of all trades, including the meltdown under pressure

 

[Foxtrot]

I'd be worried if he goes to Chelsea. In spite of his memes and jokes, he guarantees goals.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Chelsea miss a striker. Gonzalo was not a bad player two seasons ago, but nobody knows at this given moment.

The issue is, will chelsea create enough opportunities for him to score? They lack creativity in midfield.

 

[duffer]

This dude better be good!

 

[Suedesi]

Yeah, I am sure if we had Van Persie we would have told Ronaldo to feck off. Ronaldo is the reason, we had to get rid off Higuain. It does not say anything about his quality other than that he is not Ronaldo. Van Persie would have been forced out as well.

Why is Ronaldo playing on the wing and Mario as the striker then? Gonzo was being pushed out by Mandzukic not Cristiano.

 

[duffer]

Why is Ronaldo playing on the wing and Mario as the striker then? Gonzo was being pushed out by Mandzukic not Cristiano.

Was a wage issue, wasn't it?

 

[Schneckerl]

Was a wage issue, wasn't it?

Probably. If I want to win the CL I'd put more trust in Mandzukic than Higuain though.

 

[Suedesi]

Higuain is a no brainer for us. He will get us roughly 10-15 goals before end of the season. I just think he'd have buried half the chances Morata fluffed

If he gets more than 8 in the current PL season, I'd consider it a success.

 

[Suedesi]

Both of those things had nothing to do with Higuain's quality. He was always every bit as good at Benzema in Madrid and was obviously a superior player to Mandzukic. He left because Ronaldo came in and they couldn't pay huge wages to both of them.

He was fantastic for Juventus, worth every penny of the 90 million fee.

Surely you're joking. He was brought in as the missing piece to win the CL, and clearly didn't deliver. Juve thought that offloading Pogba and getting Gonzo was going to win them the CL. Also worth remembering that this was before the Neymar saga, so he was the second third most expensive transfer EVER. Clearly a miss.

 

[giorno]

Why is Ronaldo playing on the wing and Mario as the striker then? Gonzo was being pushed out by Mandzukic not Cristiano.

1) he's not
2) the issue was wages
3) Mandzukic is Allegri's favourite player in the universe
4) It was either sell him or the 25 year old Dybala who is more talented, better, and fits well next to Cristiano and Mandzukic as a #10 and won't chafe at being Cristiano's sidekick.

 

[Suedesi]

Qualified Serie A players (>600 mins in the past 5 seasons). x-axis = z-score of xG+xA+xBuildup. The larger the score, the better a player ranks.

 

[Suedesi]

Lorenzo Inisgne numbers for comparison.

 

[duffer]

I don't understand any of that.

Will he be better than Morata or Giroud? That's the only thing I really care about.

 

[charlenefan]

He should be having second thoughts about the move now

 

[bosnian_red]

I don't understand any of that.

Will he be better than Morata or Giroud? That's the only thing I really care about.

Hard not to be, but he has declined from a few years ago as you'd expect with age. Still, an actual striker to play as a striker and someone who can finish chances (and position himself to find himself on the end of the chances) is what you need and what he'll provide. Really hard to see it not being better.

 

[Suedesi]

1) he's not
2) the issue was wages
3) Mandzukic is Allegri's favourite player in the universe
4) It was either sell him or the 25 year old Dybala who is more talented, better, and fits well next to Cristiano and Mandzukic as a #10 and won't chafe at being Cristiano's sidekick.

1) Perhaps the graph below will help you. Last year Mandzukic focused attacking the left, Higuain was active in the middle.

This season there are lots of mixing between Mandzukic, Dybala and Ronaldo. Almost can't tell who is really playing at the left/right/middle.

Each dot = 1 touch

2) No idea what wages he's on. But, according to Google he was on 5.5 million, Mario is on 5 million. Hardly a huge difference

3) With good cause, because Mario Mandzukic is a big game player who's actually scored in WC/CL finals, semifinals etc. Gonzalo is a big game player who's actually missed glorious chances in WC/CL/Copa finals, semifinals etc.

4) They didn't actually SELL him, because no club in their right mind would buy him. They were just able to LOAN him to AC Milan who needed a quick fix to their goalscoring problems so they could make the CL and improve their financial problems. This is after the well documented problems with FFP and change of ownership to Ellliott Management. Milan failed with Higuain to hit their goals. Hence they didn't mind getting rid of - now Juve is trying to feck him off to Chelsea.

 

[giorno]

1) Perhaps the graph below will help you. Last year Mandzukic focused attacking the left, Higuain was active in the middle.

This season there are lots of mixing between Mandzukic, Dybala and Ronaldo. Almost can't tell who is really playing at the left/right/middle.

The only real difference in that graph you posted is how much more involved Higuain was in deeper positions compared to Cristiano

2) No idea what wages he's on. But, according to Google he was on 5.5 million, Mario is on 5 million. Hardly a huge difference

Mandzukic is on 4m(8 including taxes). Higuain was on 7.5(15). A difference of 7 millions per year for juventus. Hardly nothing

3) With good cause, because Mario Mandzukic is a big game player who's actually scored in WC/CL finals, semifinals etc. Gonzalo is a big game player who's actually missed glorious chances in WC/CL/Copa finals, semifinals etc.

Sure. Also because Mandzukic is a tireless workhorse and tactical balancer

4) They didn't actually SELL him, because no club in their right mind would buy him. They were just able to LOAN him to AC Milan who needed a quick fix to their goalscoring problems so they could make the CL and improve their financial problems. This is after the well documented problems with FFP and change of ownership to Ellliott Management. Milan failed with Higuain to hit their goals. Hence they didn't mind getting rid of - now Juve is trying to feck him off to Chelsea.

Chelsea were fools not go for him last summer, so? Btw, they did essentially sold him to Milan, 18mil loan fee is not something you just throw away. The deal was structured like that because of FFP

 

[Acrobat7]

If Serie A has one top team, how many does the Premier League have?

1.5 at the moment.
I start believing in Liverpool when they show something against Bayern

 

[Mb194dc]

Assuming he's coming. I can't seen any striker doing really well for us given our midfield and wide players don't create any chances. Too reliant on Hazard. Giroud is second in league assists for us. If we're chasing goals late in games wondering if we might see Giroud and Higuain on together.

Main thing Sarri needs to sort out is what tactical systems we're going to use and the midfield balance in it, need some creativity in the side. Possession Sarri football with Kante and Jorginho in Midfield doesn't work well at all against decent opposition.

Question for me is if Sarri will adapt tactically or not to who we have in our squad, given we're not going to spend City level money to fix the issues.

 

[arthurka]

He is lacking in movement and the years of carrying load of lard seem to have caught up with him. He at the moment isn´t moving freely at all or even moving in some games. But I think he will struggle with the demands and pace of the league. He will score goals given the chances but he isn´t going to offer Chelsea any movement or opening defenses. Giroud would be my pick over him, I think he would score a lot of goals in the Seria. But who knows Sarri might find a way to activate him again?

 

[harms]

Assuming he's coming. I can't seen any striker doing really well for us given our midfield and wide players don't create any chances. Too reliant on Hazard. Giroud is second in league assists for us. If we're chasing goals late in games wondering if we might see Giroud and Higuain on together.

With Hazard back on the wing it will be harder for your opponents to fully contain Jorginho like they do now, won't it? By the way, what's up with Kovacic? He looked on fire at the beginning of the season and no he is just kind of here...

 

[Mb194dc]

With Hazard back on the wing it will be harder for your opponents to fully contain Jorginho like they do now, won't it? By the way, what's up with Kovacic? He looked on fire at the beginning of the season and no he is just kind of here...

With Hazard on the wing or at least anywhere not false 9 should be helpful for creativity as he has by far the most assists for us in the league.

Kovacic, Kante and Barkley all a bit lost going forward since December. Not having a striker on the pitch definitely a big problem. Only scored 4 goals in last 5 games and scored 0 in 3 of them. Lots of pointless passing around the box without any end product.

If we have fully fit Giroud or Higuain in the team should improve but I still think possession football against good opposition won't work with Jorginho Kante together.