Rooney didn't even get 100% out of his career and managed it. If Rashford stays his whole career he'll do it.
Could Rashford become United's all time goalscorer?
- Thread starter NinjaZombie
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Yeah, because he was a bigger talent? That was kinda the point of my post.
I have rated and defended Rashford for a long time. It is still kneejerk.
He'd have to spend several extra years with us than Rooney did, unless he suddenly starts banging in a LOT more goals.
Naa. Rooney never looked like a dedicated professional. He was a phenomenally off the charts talented naturally gifted player. Had he had the right dedication to his craft he could have been frankly ridiculous.
People averaging his goal ratio out over 10 years when he’ll be 31? If he stays in good shape, like Ronaldo, his whole career he could easily be a leading striker for us in 15 years time, making 15 a season on average enough to become number one. He’s a consummate professional and is in peak condition, as you would expect.
I would back him to do it.
I would back him to do it.
Yes, Rashford could.
The math is not coming out ridiculous. Rooney delivered a medium-high amount of goals over a long period of time, and was better younger.
Rashford could evolve in one of many ways, including regression, but if he does become a volume goalscorer, has favorable injury outcomes, remains dedicated to his craft so there's no decline in the next 5-10 years.. and also stays with MUFC throughout that time then yes, Marcus can be our top goalscorer of all time.
I get why there are so many skeptical here in this thread, but being dismissive is pretty silly given Rooney wasn't some Ronaldo-like volume goalscorer.
The math is not coming out ridiculous. Rooney delivered a medium-high amount of goals over a long period of time, and was better younger.
Rashford could evolve in one of many ways, including regression, but if he does become a volume goalscorer, has favorable injury outcomes, remains dedicated to his craft so there's no decline in the next 5-10 years.. and also stays with MUFC throughout that time then yes, Marcus can be our top goalscorer of all time.
I get why there are so many skeptical here in this thread, but being dismissive is pretty silly given Rooney wasn't some Ronaldo-like volume goalscorer.
Yeah i dont see him passing Rooney.
I also think that Rashford seems like the type of player that once his pace is gone he wont be nearly as effective since he relies on it for most of his goals.
Add that to the fact that speed merchants like Rashford tend to have more Injury problems as they get older.
The fans that want Pochettino so badly should be out of here - he tends to favour target men. Lambert, Kane, Llorente, Dani Osvado etc.
Lukaku back up top; atleast in more games than now.
Lukaku back up top; atleast in more games than now.
Good point.
Think the next two years are very important for Rashford, either he kicks on and elevates his game into being a consistent 20+ goal striker or he just becomes another typical English attacker. Look how Ronaldo and Kane stepped up at the age of 21, hopefully he can step up at this crucial time also.
Agree and another reason why I doubt his suitability to the job despite the results he got. He's going to use a focal point as main source of goals instead of developing the team orientated attack we have now with goals coming from all the front three. That's what we're getting closer towards anyway. It's very possible Martial and Rashford go back to competing for one spot and we get ourselves another focal point striker if he doesn't fancy Lukaku. We'll score more goals sticking with ole as manager and letting him build on top of what we have. Pochettino will start from scratch and need even more players than what we might need otherwise plus there's no guarantee if you took the focal point away from the team we wouldn't be nullified and less potent as team offensively.
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Lukaku is not even a target man and that has never been his game. If he can get Kane in our attack then good.
Something has changed in Rashford recently. When he first burst onto the scene, he had a killer instinct for goal and comparisons could be made to some of the best natural finishers we have had at the club, including OGS.
Then he started to play on the wings and seemed to try to do too much, often losing the ball too easily and not creating enough. Since Mourinho put him in the centre of attack and then moreso when OGS took over, he is shooting at every chance and doing so much earlier. Some of the goals he has scored were quick thinking and shooting a lot earlier. OGS has clearly told him to strike on sight and it’s working. If he gets to 20+ for the season, we could take off from here, and anything’s possible.
Then he started to play on the wings and seemed to try to do too much, often losing the ball too easily and not creating enough. Since Mourinho put him in the centre of attack and then moreso when OGS took over, he is shooting at every chance and doing so much earlier. Some of the goals he has scored were quick thinking and shooting a lot earlier. OGS has clearly told him to strike on sight and it’s working. If he gets to 20+ for the season, we could take off from here, and anything’s possible.
I could not agree more, as teenagers the most impressive I've seen in my life time were Gascoigne and Rooney - forget how they developed and how their careers panned out, as teens I've never seen betterand I'd include a teenage Ronaldo in that to, Rooney at the time was being hyped as one of the best in the world. That's not to say that Rashford couldn't develop into one of the best and challenge the record, but Rooney developed far far earlier.
I still see him as a winger. He actually has a great cross on him. The left footed delivery for dalot. The cross to Lingard the last game was also great. Wingers are forwards and he is at his most dangerous there. His goal v Tottenham came from a run down the right. The one against Brighton was from the left. His movement in the box for crosses is not the best. I dont see him as a striker who is first to the ball in the box, like Diego Costa. And when he does get it in a crowded area he isnt very composed. His finish against Newcastle was from a LW position 1v1 showed great composure. Imo his future lies on the wing. Either of them. He is still very young, Costa wasn't prolific at his age. If he grows into his frame properly he could be a well rounded striker. I just want to see him making better decisions, he doesn't need to shoot every single time.
I think it may be unfair to compare the goals scored by Rooney and Rashford. Rooney was playing regularly at Everton and Manchester United in the first team, and those days, United was dominant with the supplies plentiful.
Rashford was restrained under LVG and Mourinho. How many shots do we even get each game under LVG? Single digits?
Under OGS, I believe that we are seeing the true potential of Rashford, and I for one, am excited. He is in the league of Rooney and potentially Ronaldo even.
Rashford was restrained under LVG and Mourinho. How many shots do we even get each game under LVG? Single digits?
Under OGS, I believe that we are seeing the true potential of Rashford, and I for one, am excited. He is in the league of Rooney and potentially Ronaldo even.
Rooney scored 253 and Rashford has 41. So surely he needs 212 goals to match Rooney?
Or am i missing something.
I doubt it.Hope I'm wrong though.
This. Rooney had better players (and suppliers) alongside him.
He has every chance. I can only remember Rooney being prolific in one season so Rashford has plenty of time to outscore him.
He's becoming more of a magician than a thoroughbred striker, but he's slowly improving in this area too.
Rooney has 253 goals. Rashford has 41. He will need another 212 goals.
I will try to do a math of it. And i will try to take every factors into counting. So the form will be like this. And i just do this base on the matches in England. Not European football rating include.
Rooney own skills and physically body + teammates level + opponents level + manager level in attacking way = 253 goals = manager lev + opponents lev + teamates lev + Rashford level
Those are the main and biggest physically factors behind a football player success. I dont take unvisible factor like luck into this counting. And i give 5 is the highest level and 3 is the middle and average level. And 1 is the lowest. So i start with Rooney.
Rooney skills : 5, average all over his career. Even he drop the level to 4,5 or 4 later in his career.
It was clearly as day about Rooney talent, that he will dominate and be the next big to happen in the football. Same level as C.Ronaldo.
About his body. He is not a natural easy on the toes player. So its a reason why i think RAshford will keep in longer than Rooney. Its definitive a disavantage compare to RAshford.
Rooney teammates level : average over his whole career i will rate it 5. Giggs, Scholes, C.Ronaldo, TEvez. But like his level drop in form, the level of his teammates drop to after Sir Alex retire. Gone is the class of 92 and Ronaldo, worse service and supporting. So its a plus compare to RAshford early years. But Rooney didnt score much in his late career.
Rooney opponents : in the 2000 there were max 2-3 really good teams. A top 3. So compare to the top 4-5 in RAshford early years. I will give 4 to Rooney opponents level. Average over his whole career.
Rooney managers level : Sir Alex was the manager most of Rooney career. So its definitive a 5
And now Rashfords years so far.
Rashford skills. Definitive not a 4. Rashford is close to Rooney, really close. But not at Rooney finisher level yet. Rooney was so sharp, clinical and determination in everything he was doing. Run, dribbling and finishing. And Rooney longshoot was better too. And Rooney had many goals outside the box too. So not a 4 or 5. It get to be 4,5
Rashfords teammates level : Its start with LVG. And he took over David Moyes and continue with Mourinho. Definitive not a 4,5. Rashford had most of the time. Consistent teamates under LVG was Martial. So not sure i will give a 4. But with Pobga under Mourinho so it will be around a 4.
Rashford opponents level : We have City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham. 4 really good teams include ARsenal, Everton teams that are the next best. So i will give Rashford opponents level a 5 so far. And of course compare to Rooney first years.
Rashfords managers level : In the way to help him and the team to score. LVG and Mourinho. Sorry both were not at theirs best period in their managers careers + plus Mourinho was defensive minded against the top 6. So it will be a 4
And another factor is penalty taker. Rooney start to be a regular penalty taker in some time. I dont remember. So i hope in some stage Rashford will be a regular penalty taker too. Its plus to a a striker that score 20 goals plus each season average. And if you a regular penalty taker like Baines for Everton, Mihajlovic for Crystal Palace and Milner for Liverpool. Average let we say 5 penalty goals each season. over 10 season it could be 50 goals.
So conclusion is. To help RAshford to reach 253 goals. I think the level of his teammates has to level and get up. Like a top RW and CM. Then i will give it a 5. Pobga is consistent as this moment. And if Martial find to his best, consistent. Adding a top RW like Jadon Sancho and the midfield general Axel Witsel in the cm. Or some another cm at Axel Witsel and Sancho level. Over the next 5 years. And if he start regular the next 5 years. Big possible he will score 100 goals in next 5 years. Taking that Ole and someone like United way attacking football style into counting.
But i think Pobga want to take the penalty in the years to come. So i will lower the expecations to 15 goals each season withouth penalty goals.
And because the high level of opponents too. So average 15 goals the next 10 years. Then we have 150.
212 minus 150 goals about the age of 31 = 62 goals left
So 62 goals from 31-35 = 32,33,34, 35 = 4 x 15 = 60 goals
It might happen. Average 15 goals each season. If the level of the top 6 drops over the next 10 years. Easy opponents in champion league. And to be more optimist like average 20 + minus each season. Its a really hard task. Because of RAshford isolate skills. He is not far from Rooney finishing skills. If Rashford can consitent be really sharp and clinical infront of goals. Without the penalties. I think and belief he should be good for around 20 goals each season. Like 17 or 18 goals in some season and 22-23 in others season.
But last thing of all. He has to stay at Old Trafford his whole career. Rooney did, even he return to Everton and Join USA. He has to stay, if not we can just forget about this cabal and math to go up. Its main condition
So from my personal point of view. Again its hard task. But not impossible. Not even close to that. Its a realistic goal. But again. Rooney was so clinical and sharp infront of goal. A natural goalscorer who had everything. A complete football player. Because of his body type. He reach the complete level as much as he could. But if Rashford stay and play for United the next 14-15 years. Regular over that period. Yeah i think he would reach it. If not. Its maybe because of the factors and things i have mentioned compared to Rooney career. But Rashford does have that exciting factor with him. Kind of player peoples want and love to watch. Beside scoring goals. He always work hard and has the skills too.
But i have tips too RAshford. Save the energy by not pressing aggression alone up there. And stay more often in the box. United should have good enough midfield player to open up opponent teams and give you the best support up there. As a main striker, you get to be in the box most of the time. Like your goals in debuts and in your early matches. Not every striker and player have the ability. Be at the right place and right time. And that is in the box. I wish you good luck boy
P.S dont reply to me comment. Because im not into discussion. Personal point of view discussion will never end
Edit:
But about my post/this post. If a player always remind himself, that are always others puzzles/factors in a bigger and total pictures, which is scoring alot of goals to help the team winning. Then he will keeps his feets on the ground. Contra if a player just its all up to him. Sorry like Mourinho sometime. You will meet the wall and struggle. Have the right view will help to keep your ego down. If not, it can be hard for peoples around you too. Right views is the key to keep beeing grounded.
And if United gonna win premier league again. Im sure the factors top teammates has to goes top = top quality teammates are maybe on theirs way to Old Trafford and thats again will help your performances.
Because simply math = its easier to score goals in a winning dominate team, than for a team that were struggling. And United as a team did struggled in the years after Sir Alex.
So Rooney started playing for a dominate winning team, but ended up playing for a struggling United team.
Compare to Rashford. He start playing and debut for a struggling United team. But who knows when he end his career. Maybe for a dominating team. Top service and support, at the age of 35. Like Sheringham?Playing for a treble champion team. The goals will keep coming.
Football is a teamsport, so your personal success depend a lot on others puzzles/factors, that makes the bigger pictures. Team success and your success.
I will try to do a math of it. And i will try to take every factors into counting. So the form will be like this. And i just do this base on the matches in England. Not European football rating include.
Rooney own skills and physically body + teammates level + opponents level + manager level in attacking way = 253 goals = manager lev + opponents lev + teamates lev + Rashford level
Those are the main and biggest physically factors behind a football player success. I dont take unvisible factor like luck into this counting. And i give 5 is the highest level and 3 is the middle and average level. And 1 is the lowest. So i start with Rooney.
Rooney skills : 5, average all over his career. Even he drop the level to 4,5 or 4 later in his career.
It was clearly as day about Rooney talent, that he will dominate and be the next big to happen in the football. Same level as C.Ronaldo.
About his body. He is not a natural easy on the toes player. So its a reason why i think RAshford will keep in longer than Rooney. Its definitive a disavantage compare to RAshford.
Rooney teammates level : average over his whole career i will rate it 5. Giggs, Scholes, C.Ronaldo, TEvez. But like his level drop in form, the level of his teammates drop to after Sir Alex retire. Gone is the class of 92 and Ronaldo, worse service and supporting. So its a plus compare to RAshford early years. But Rooney didnt score much in his late career.
Rooney opponents : in the 2000 there were max 2-3 really good teams. A top 3. So compare to the top 4-5 in RAshford early years. I will give 4 to Rooney opponents level. Average over his whole career.
Rooney managers level : Sir Alex was the manager most of Rooney career. So its definitive a 5
And now Rashfords years so far.
Rashford skills. Definitive not a 4. Rashford is close to Rooney, really close. But not at Rooney finisher level yet. Rooney was so sharp, clinical and determination in everything he was doing. Run, dribbling and finishing. And Rooney longshoot was better too. And Rooney had many goals outside the box too. So not a 4 or 5. It get to be 4,5
Rashfords teammates level : Its start with LVG. And he took over David Moyes and continue with Mourinho. Definitive not a 4,5. Rashford had most of the time. Consistent teamates under LVG was Martial. So not sure i will give a 4. But with Pobga under Mourinho so it will be around a 4.
Rashford opponents level : We have City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham. 4 really good teams include ARsenal, Everton teams that are the next best. So i will give Rashford opponents level a 5 so far. And of course compare to Rooney first years.
Rashfords managers level : In the way to help him and the team to score. LVG and Mourinho. Sorry both were not at theirs best period in their managers careers + plus Mourinho was defensive minded against the top 6. So it will be a 4
And another factor is penalty taker. Rooney start to be a regular penalty taker in some time. I dont remember. So i hope in some stage Rashford will be a regular penalty taker too. Its plus to a a striker that score 20 goals plus each season average. And if you a regular penalty taker like Baines for Everton, Mihajlovic for Crystal Palace and Milner for Liverpool. Average let we say 5 penalty goals each season. over 10 season it could be 50 goals.
So conclusion is. To help RAshford to reach 253 goals. I think the level of his teammates has to level and get up. Like a top RW and CM. Then i will give it a 5. Pobga is consistent as this moment. And if Martial find to his best, consistent. Adding a top RW like Jadon Sancho and the midfield general Axel Witsel in the cm. Or some another cm at Axel Witsel and Sancho level. Over the next 5 years. And if he start regular the next 5 years. Big possible he will score 100 goals in next 5 years. Taking that Ole and someone like United way attacking football style into counting.
But i think Pobga want to take the penalty in the years to come. So i will lower the expecations to 15 goals each season withouth penalty goals.
And because the high level of opponents too. So average 15 goals the next 10 years. Then we have 150.
212 minus 150 goals about the age of 31 = 62 goals left
So 62 goals from 31-35 = 32,33,34, 35 = 4 x 15 = 60 goals
It might happen. Average 15 goals each season. If the level of the top 6 drops over the next 10 years. Easy opponents in champion league. And to be more optimist like average 20 + minus each season. Its a really hard task. Because of RAshford isolate skills. He is not far from Rooney finishing skills. If Rashford can consitent be really sharp and clinical infront of goals. Without the penalties. I think and belief he should be good for around 20 goals each season. Like 17 or 18 goals in some season and 22-23 in others season.
But last thing of all. He has to stay at Old Trafford his whole career. Rooney did, even he return to Everton and Join USA. He has to stay, if not we can just forget about this cabal and math to go up. Its main condition
So from my personal point of view. Again its hard task. But not impossible. Not even close to that. Its a realistic goal. But again. Rooney was so clinical and sharp infront of goal. A natural goalscorer who had everything. A complete football player. Because of his body type. He reach the complete level as much as he could. But if Rashford stay and play for United the next 14-15 years. Regular over that period. Yeah i think he would reach it. If not. Its maybe because of the factors and things i have mentioned compared to Rooney career. But Rashford does have that exciting factor with him. Kind of player peoples want and love to watch. Beside scoring goals. He always work hard and has the skills too.
But i have tips too RAshford. Save the energy by not pressing aggression alone up there. And stay more often in the box. United should have good enough midfield player to open up opponent teams and give you the best support up there. As a main striker, you get to be in the box most of the time. Like your goals in debuts and in your early matches. Not every striker and player have the ability. Be at the right place and right time. And that is in the box. I wish you good luck boy
P.S dont reply to me comment. Because im not into discussion. Personal point of view discussion will never end
Edit:
But about my post/this post. If a player always remind himself, that are always others puzzles/factors in a bigger and total pictures, which is scoring alot of goals to help the team winning. Then he will keeps his feets on the ground. Contra if a player just its all up to him. Sorry like Mourinho sometime. You will meet the wall and struggle. Have the right view will help to keep your ego down. If not, it can be hard for peoples around you too. Right views is the key to keep beeing grounded.
And if United gonna win premier league again. Im sure the factors top teammates has to goes top = top quality teammates are maybe on theirs way to Old Trafford and thats again will help your performances.
Because simply math = its easier to score goals in a winning dominate team, than for a team that were struggling. And United as a team did struggled in the years after Sir Alex.
So Rooney started playing for a dominate winning team, but ended up playing for a struggling United team.
Compare to Rashford. He start playing and debut for a struggling United team. But who knows when he end his career. Maybe for a dominating team. Top service and support, at the age of 35. Like Sheringham?Playing for a treble champion team. The goals will keep coming.
Football is a teamsport, so your personal success depend a lot on others puzzles/factors, that makes the bigger pictures. Team success and your success.
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It doesn't take much to get this hype train running again. OGS is not helping either with some of his remarks. I get that he's trying to pump up his confidence and right now he's on a good run of form but we're dangerously close to the hype when he first came on the scene and it seemed to take a toll on him. I think the kid is better off without making crazy claims how he may be the best striker in the Premiership now that Kane is injured or how he's going to be the all-time goalscorer for the club. I'm personally not even sure he's a good striker yet. Let's see him finish with a couple of seasons of 20+ goals, let's give him time.
Rashford needs several 30+ seasons and several 20+ seasons and he will be there.
Hope he will score 20+ this season.
Hope he will score 20+ this season.
That's quite reasonable imo. I also happen to think that the early hype wasn't good for his development and the same mistake might get repeated now again.
No chance for that.
Rooney - not sure yet. Rashford might become a better striker than Rooney but hardly a better player.
What a thread! Let's see if he can actually get about 15 in a season once first eh?
Here is the question.
Would you rather have Kane leading the line? Mbappe? A lot of this is "If he can manage to do something he's never done for 10+ years".
Is that the level we're at? Rashford is a good player, but he's never demonstrated himself to be world class, which Rooney had already done at this point. We should be striving to have world class strikers. Maybe Rashford can develop into that, but how long are we planning to wait? We gonna wait until he is 25 to see if he becomes an out and out world class striker?
I see this as a giving him the opportunity to break the record vs, does he deserve the opportunity to break the record. So far? No, he doesn't. He's good. Not good enough. Maybe he will become good enough, but he better up his game soon, because we should be looking for a Kane/Mbappe level talent to take us to the next level. Not hoping Rashford can become good enough.
Would you rather have Kane leading the line? Mbappe? A lot of this is "If he can manage to do something he's never done for 10+ years".
Is that the level we're at? Rashford is a good player, but he's never demonstrated himself to be world class, which Rooney had already done at this point. We should be striving to have world class strikers. Maybe Rashford can develop into that, but how long are we planning to wait? We gonna wait until he is 25 to see if he becomes an out and out world class striker?
I see this as a giving him the opportunity to break the record vs, does he deserve the opportunity to break the record. So far? No, he doesn't. He's good. Not good enough. Maybe he will become good enough, but he better up his game soon, because we should be looking for a Kane/Mbappe level talent to take us to the next level. Not hoping Rashford can become good enough.
This. Too many off the chart prediction based of limited data.
No here’s the question. If Rashford keeps up this form all the way through to the end of the season then does he deserve to lead the line? Yes ok people are being a bit too hopeful but he’s scored what 5 in 6, and played very well in most of those matches. His assist for Pogba, his goal when it really mattered against Spurs and his fantastic goal again on the weekend. If he pulls these out pretty much every game/other game then what more would you want?
Right now we can believe in giving him the chance because his most recent performances had shown as much. Come the end of the season the hype may fade. But it’s equally as premature to be saying ‘he’ll go on to be our record scorer’ as it is saying he deserves to be dropped from an incoming Kane or Mbappe level striker (which obviously are almost impossible to buy)
I actually expect him to do so unless he runs into injury issues. He seems to be a natural athlete so I doubt that'll be the case.
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You must have missed his games under Ole...which striker in the league has played better football during the Ole reign?
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Naturally we should spend £250m on Kane or Mbappe or take a chance on a £80m teenager nobody has really heard of yet and put Rashford out to pasture.
You should take it as compliment to Rashford progress. It's only when those level of players available then United might consider of 'replacing' him.
Only one of those matches was a real measure. The rest were against, objectively weak teams. The mark of a striker isn't how many goals he can score against teams we should be overpowering. It's, what he does when he is facing talent equal to or greater than our own.
Are you telling me that on the balance of their body of work, you wouldn't take Mbappe or Kane over Rashford? Right now? That is the level we should be striving for. If Rashford can reach that? Great. So far, he hasn't shown any indication that he will reach that. Show me a 25-30+ goal season, and I will buy into him being world class. It's not for lack of opportunity. He's featured for us for several seasons now.
Well I think its early days and maybe this thread alone puts unnecessary expectations of him. But having said all that I think he can rack up big numbers for us and I can see him as a main striker by the time he's 23 or 24. I think he has more maturing to do football wise. It's definetly brilliant we have a local lad in the 3 up front
Don't think so. There are late bloomers like Salah, sure, but most of the time, attacking players are close to being as good as they will ever be at 21. From the evidence on display so far, he will be a very good player, but not top class, which is what he would need to be to score an average of 20 goals a season for ten years and surpass Rooney.
There is a live thread remarking about how Rashford scores against the top 6. Perhaps visit?
That's not true at all, not even remotely true. It's a yes for few players like Messi, Ronaldo but so many players were nowhere good enough when they were 21.
Lewandowski at 21 was playing in Polish league
Bale scored more than 10 league goals when he was 22-23
Drogba not even sure whether he was pro when he was 21.
Diego Costa at 21 was on world tour going out on loans
Griezmann scored 10 league goals when we was 21
RVP when he was 21 wasn't anywhere as good as when he was 28-29
RVN when was 21 was playing for Heerenveen
Suarez at 21 just joined Ajax
Salah at 21 was at Basel.
It's not true at all. Players always improve and so many great players were playing in poor leagues when they were young or weren't as good.
He has played a lot of games already at 21 (150??).
I think he has to watch that he doesn't go the way of Michael Owen, rather than Wayne Rooney.
Luckily, he seems to have a good body for football.
I think he has to watch that he doesn't go the way of Michael Owen, rather than Wayne Rooney.
Luckily, he seems to have a good body for football.