Peter Schmeichel: United regret we didn't give David Moyes more time

stevoc

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Also, we were quite decent against top clubs. Multiple victories against Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Spurs, while Moyes managed to win a single game against top 6 opponents.

As bad as things were under Moyes, the feeling of helplessness every time we faced a big squad was something that was just impossible to handle. We lost 0-3 against Liverpool and 1-4 against City, and we were lucky in both matches to not have conceded more. Every fan knew that we were going to be thrashed on those games, and sure we did.

The following season, LVG defeated Liverpool home and away and defeated City too.
Definitely we were much better vs the big sides, saying those years were wasted is nonsense. In 34 league games under Moyes we only managed 2 scrappy wins vs the top 10 that year never mind the top 6. That was pathetic.
 

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I don't think thats a fair comparison at all to be fair. When your predecessor gets sacked because of failure then theres a good chance that some or all of his coaching staff are just as culpable for that failure. So it makes sense to replace all or most of them with your own people.

When faced with the very, very rare scenario where your predecessor was the greatest manager of all time and and left of his own volition after 25+ years of unprecedented success Then you don't replace his entire vastly experienced and successful coaching staff with Evertons.
Oh really? The predecessor of Ole at Old Trafford was Mourinho and sacked “because of failure”. Ole has however changed as little as possible. Contrary to your argument:

''That was one of the mistakes I made at Cardiff,'' Ole admitted to Sky Sports. ''I wanted to go into my way straight away. So, Mick, me and Demps have come in and we didn’t want to change too much too early because with change there is always a danger that you do too much.''
 

stevoc

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Yeah I agree he likely never would have at United but given the appointments afterwards I think it would have brought some stability to the club. Many will disagree on me with this but I think LVG tore the soul of this club and damaged it far more than Moyes.

Moyes just couldn't do it but he wasn't changing our core. We should have found a new manager that understood United's values. Put it this way, I'd take another year of failure under Moyes and then hire a United level manager than LVG.
I don't see how the two bolded parts of your post come together?

You agree Moyes wouldn't have got us in the CL or won a cup but you would have preferred him to Van Gaal. Both played shit on a stick football, but at least Van Gaal achieved something positive in both his seasons. I'm not sure we would have been better off avoiding the Van Gaal years and giving Moyes more time.

I agree Van Gaal did a lot of damage by gutting the squad and buying a load of dross some of which we are still trying to shift, but Moyes would have likely did similar. And i agree we should have got a manager more in tune with United's values.

But heres the problem while the great man was entitled to retire whenever he wanted and whichever way he wanted. It can't be overlooked that he basically gave United no notice, he never told the club he was stepping down until March 2013. It left the club scrambling without a real plan for the future as Ferguson had almost total control of the football side of things. Gill leaving at the same exacerbated the situation.

It lead to the Glazers and the board just allowing Ferguson to pick his successor, he chose poorly. We had to sack his pick and then we were left scrambling again Van Gaal was the best of the manager bunch available in 2014. At this point we should have started thinking about a DOF and looking at hiring a younger manager like Solskjaer or Pochettino. But instead we turned to Mourinho as the board probably understandably thought he was a sure thing to bring success. And Jose basically wanted the same amount of power and control that Ferguson had.
 

Brophs

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I see he’s trying to get another one of his son’s managers sacked. Someone should make him Leicester manager for the craic of it.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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Moyes was a pretty big mistake but when you think about it, he was taking a poisoned chalice. No big name manager in their right mind was going to come in after Fergie. These days I see Moyes as a necessary evil. LvG is still clueless and Mourinho is a cnut.
 

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That upheaval isn't a reason why Moyes did badly. Moyes did badly because he is a bad manager, period. He deserved no more time.

LvG won a trophy and atleast gave us a few good moments in big games. He was a terrible manager but did much better than Moyes ever would have even if the latter had been given another year.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
 

stevoc

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Oh really? The predecessor of Ole at Old Trafford was Mourinho and sacked “because of failure”. Ole has however changed as little as possible. Contrary to your argument:

''That was one of the mistakes I made at Cardiff,'' Ole admitted to Sky Sports. ''I wanted to go into my way straight away. So, Mick, me and Demps have come in and we didn’t want to change too much too early because with change there is always a danger that you do too much.''
Well i was referring to the comparison between Moyes taking over United and Solskjaer taking over Cardiff. Very different scenarios.

Solskjaer is an interim appointment at United Moyes wasn't. Moyes sacked first team coaches that had been at United working with Ferguson for years. Carrick and McKenna had only been working as 1st team coaches under Mourinho for a few months. The rest of Jose's coaching staff that had worked with him for years were sacked.

So while Solskjaer's decisions might have been based on his experience at Cardiff. I don't see how his decisions at Cardiff are comparable to Moyes poor decision to sack Fergusons successful coaching team.
 
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Dec9003

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Makes sense that an ex city player would want Moyes at Old Trafford for as long as possible.
 

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Honestly don't like his attitude whenever I see him talk about football these days, negative misery of a bloke. Shame, always loved him as a kid obviously, but I find myself rolling my eyes with most quotes of his I read.
 

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Well i was referring to the comparison between Moyes taking over United and Solskjaer taking over Cardiff. Very different scenarios.

Solskjaer is an interim appointment at United Moyes wasn't. Moyes sacked first team coaches that had been at United working with Ferguson for years. Carrick and McKenna had only been working as 1st team coaches under Mourinho for a few months. The rest of Jose's coaching staff that had worked with him for years were sacked.

So while Solskjaer's decisions might have been based on his experience at Cardiff. I don't see how his decisions at Cardiff are comparable to Moyes poor decision to sack Fergusons successful coaching team.
Alright then. But Ole seems to compare the two nevertheless, refers to learning from the Cardiff experience.
 

stevoc

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Alright then. But Ole seems to compare the two nevertheless, refers to learning from the Cardiff experience.
No doubt answering a question that was put to him because he re-hired Phelan and kept some of the current 1st team coaches on board when he took over.
 

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Honestly don't like his attitude whenever I see him talk about football these days, negative misery of a bloke. Shame, always loved him as a kid obviously, but I find myself rolling my eyes with most quotes of his I read.
I agreed with some of the other stuff he was saying though. Especially his defence of the players against the accusation Keys was pushing quite hard, about player power and how members of his squad had downed tools to get him sacked, quite consciously. Of course, there is no way of knowing if that is the case. Perhaps it is. But Schmeichel's view was more that Mourinho was not using players according to their strengths, and that they were demotivated. I agree with him on that.
 

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Giving Moyes another half season/season would have been bad in the short run, but we'd have had more time to really assess what was going wrong and correct it.

As it was we assumed the only problem was the manager. It's only two managers later we're looking at how the club is run.
Wasn’t he also sacked because he had lost all trust from the team?
 

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No doubt answering a question that was put to him because he re-hired Phelan and kept some of the current 1st team coaches on board when he took over.
You’re a stubborn guy to argue with stevoc.
 

Ducklegs

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David Moyes should have been fired before the first game of the season.

He was already well on the way to showing us all he was an inept clown with no idea what he doing during pre season.

He was fecking shit on a stick and was never EVER going to amount to anything regardless of how much time and money he was given because he didnt have a fecking clue.
 

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Moyes was out of his depth. How can someone find excuses for a guy who asked two all time greats like Rio and Vidic study Phil Jagielka's defending? I mean what kind of moron would do that?
I know that it sounds hilarious, but this never happened. There's enough sticks out there to beat Moyes with, without making stuff up
 

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Bild is better than Evans. Evans was also horrible in Moyes season, while all our players underperformed, he was easily the worst of them, and looked more like a Sunda league player.

While back then Van Gaal looked stupid to sell players, most of his decisions have been justified. Rafael and Nani couldn't do anything after they left, same for Hernandez (Rafael and Chicharito were my two favorite players back then). Ando was shit, as was Cleverley. Welbeck spends his time at the hospital. All of these decisions in hindsight seem to have been spot on.

When it comes to signings, LVG was hit and miss. Shaw and Herrera are still important to the club, Martial is one of our top 3 or 4 players, Blind was important in all trophies we won since SAF left and we got the money back for him, Romero is probably the best second keeper in the world. He also gave the debut to Rashford, one or two years before anyone was thinking that Rashford will play for us, and made Lingard return from loan to become a regular here. There were some bad signings like Di Maria and Falcao, but then we got most of the money back for Di Maria. Schweinsteiger was a horrible signing, as were Depay and Schneiderlin, though again, we got our money back from them.

All things considered, his job was not a success, but also not a total failure. Our entire current attack is built from him, one way or another. His biggest problem was that he was a very boring manager, which means that he wasn't going to make it at us. Our second season went to shit, when the fans started 'Attack Attack Attack'. It gets understated, but United needs not only a good manager, but a manager which knows what United way is. Not complicated football, just straightforward devastating attacking football which makes us all enjoy it. Van Gaal wasn't that man, neither was Jose, Ole looks to be that man.
LVG had a clear idea about how he wanted the team to play and went about implementing it. I'd say he was unlucky in the way some of his big signings performed (Falcao, Schweinsteiger, di Maria), and I'd say he was too stubborn in managing the team / insisting on Rooney playing every match. However, you could tell he was a big coach and you could tell his imprint in the way United performed against other big teams. We eviscerated Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham under Van Gaal. And of course kept losing to Swansea. Repeatedly.

IMO it was LVG>Mourinho>Moyes on a scale of less shit to shit!
 

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Moyes was a pretty big mistake but when you think about it, he was taking a poisoned chalice. No big name manager in their right mind was going to come in after Fergie. These days I see Moyes as a necessary evil. LvG is still clueless and Mourinho is a cnut.
Well, apparently Mourinho coveted the job in 2013 and was apoplectic when he was snubbed.
 

Revan

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I know that it sounds hilarious, but this never happened. There's enough sticks out there to beat Moyes with, without making stuff up
Vidic more or less confirmed it, when he was directly asked about it.
 

Revan

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LVG had a clear idea about how he wanted the team to play and went about implementing it. I'd say he was unlucky in the way some of his big signings performed (Falcao, Schweinsteiger, di Maria), and I'd say he was too stubborn in managing the team / insisting on Rooney playing every match. However, you could tell he was a big coach and you could tell his imprint in the way United performed against other big teams. We eviscerated Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham under Van Gaal. And of course kept losing to Swansea. Repeatedly.

IMO it was LVG>Mourinho>Moyes on a scale of less shit to shit!
Not sure that LVG was better than Mourinho. Sure, Mourinho was toxic in the third year, but his first two years were arguably better than both LVG seasons.

We also defeated all big teams under Mourinho. In fact, I think that bar Chelsea (whom we defeated only once), we defeated all the other top 6 teams two or more times.
 

stevoc

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You’re a stubborn guy to argue with stevoc.
Haha i didn't know we were arguing, i thought we were having an amicable conversation. He said it in an interview, i think it's a fair assumption to make.
 

Suedesi

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Not sure that LVG was better than Mourinho. Sure, Mourinho was toxic in the third year, but his first two years were arguably better than both LVG seasons.

We also defeated all big teams under Mourinho. In fact, I think that bar Chelsea (whom we defeated only once), we defeated all the other top 6 teams two or more times.
Depends on the manner of those wins. When LVG's system clicked, we were a very good team. With Mourinho we were mostly winning ugly.

Toxicity apart, which really started when Jose was angling for an extension in January of 2018 and hit overdrive after the Sevilla bounce, I think Mourinho's return in terms of results was pretty poor given the investment outlay (Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Bailly, Zlatan, Lukaku, Matic, Sanchez, Lindelof, Fred).
 

Revan

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Depends on the manner of those wins. When LVG's system clicked, we were a very good team. With Mourinho we were mostly winning ugly.

Toxicity apart, which really started when Jose was angling for an extension in January of 2018 and hit overdrive after the Sevilla bounce, I think Mourinho's return in terms of results was pretty poor given the investment outlay (Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Bailly, Zlatan, Lukaku, Matic, Sanchez, Lindelof, Fred).
It clicked only once though. When we battered Liverpool, City, Spurs and Chelsea (though we only managed a draw against them, in a typical Jose display). Other than that, even when we went into a streak, it was mostly be sending the other team to sleep, and then scoring while they are still sleeping.

Not sure that Mourimho was backed more than LVG. He just went for less, but more expensive players, while Van Gaal signed a shitload of them.
 

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I know that it sounds hilarious, but this never happened. There's enough sticks out there to beat Moyes with, without making stuff up
It's not confirmed and it's just rumors, but it wouldn't be far off the realm of possibility considering what a moron the guy was.
 

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I thought the story was that Fergie told him the job was his. Don’t think he even asked for it. Don’t think he thought he was ready or could do it. Saw it in his eyes, really. Him not taking Fergies advice on the backroom to me seemed like an act of defiance.
In reality who should it have been? I can’t remember who was available. I know people said Jose was available and that was a different Jose than now but let’s throw that response out the window.
 

jeff_goldblum

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Wasn’t he also sacked because he had lost all trust from the team?
He was sacked after he lost the game which made Champion's League football mathematically impossible. To my knowledge, the stuff from Rio about senior players not respecting Moyes didn't come out until after he'd gone, so I doubt that was in Woodward's head when the decision was made. Most likely what was in Woodward's head was that he was the new CEO of a team in free-fall and had made a clown of himself in the two transfer windows since he was appointed. He'd been hired specifically for his ability to grow the value of the club rather than because he knew the sport, which meant share prices plummeting by 1/5 under his charge was a severe risk to his position.

Ultimately I think Moyes' sacking was as much for Woodward's benefit as Manchester United's. We all knew we weren't making top-4, but the symbolism of the game which confirmed it being a loss against Everton was perfect. Ed couldn't have hoped for a better set of circumstances which screamed "Moyes is the problem" and took the pressure off himself. After that season we should have taken stock of the whole organisation and Woodward should have been shuttled off to make sponsorship deals as far away from the actual football as possible. Moyes' true crime was perhaps being so shit that by the end of the season we (and certainly the board) could barely smell that Woodward's trousers had been caked in it the whole time.
 
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Djemba-Djemba

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He starts off refusing to let Richard Keys talk his shite about modern players and this mad idea the Utd players stabbed Mourinho in the back and you think "oh good Schmeichel is talking sense for once"

And then he says we should have given Moyes more time.

What a clown.
 

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I think we were right to sack him. His attempts in the transfer market were painful, We may blame woodward FOR THAT but no one wanted to come and play for Moyes except Fellani.
He's "managed" 3 clubs since he was fired from United - Real socidad, West ham and Sunderland, All Epic fails.

His stats show his win rate was actually highest at United 52% Everton was 48% and then down hill from there.
 

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If he really gave a hoot about United, he wouldn't have even captained City or had his son in their academy, along with Paul Ince and Mark Hughes, I think their legacy is tarnished when they play for bitter rivals!

If Moyes was given the boot too early according to him, how does he explain Moyes's disasters later?
 
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Rista

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Wow do some people have short memories! Things weren't great under LVG but we were absolutely diabolical under Moyes. There is no contest whatsoever. Anyone saying we should have given him more time instead of hiring LVG should rewatch any of our matches against decent opposition. How would giving someone so out of his depth another year give us more stability?? If anything, we gave him too much time.
 

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It clicked only once though. When we battered Liverpool, City, Spurs and Chelsea (though we only managed a draw against them, in a typical Jose display). Other than that, even when we went into a streak, it was mostly be sending the other team to sleep, and then scoring while they are still sleeping.

Not sure that Mourimho was backed more than LVG. He just went for less, but more expensive players, while Van Gaal signed a shitload of them.
Yes, that's the period between March and April 2015 when we played Spurs, Liverpool and City and beat them all comfortably. We actually lost to Chelsea after a Hazard counter giving Mourinho the opportunity to jibe about sterile domination. Nevertheless, we finished the season on a real high, but we weren't able to build on that the following season, due in part, to a typically poor transfer campaign. That summer we went after Ramos, Bale, Mueller and ended up with Depay and Darmian, which is not on Louis, but on the board/owners/CEO.

Also, during LVG reign, we beat City away, Arsenal home and away, won the FA Cup, and he promoted/gave minutes to Lingard, Wilson, Blackett, CBJ, McNair, TFM etc. In particular in Martial and Rashford you could see a glimpse of the future, which was exciting. Finally, I'd take Louis personality and news conferences over Mourinho every week. There's something about that Portuguese accent that just grates me. It might sound petty, but preferences many times are :)
 

stevoc

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He never confirmed it!

But then again it's Moyes.
Vidic never denied it either though when asked directly about that rumour.

In an interview with FourFourTwo, the Serbian was asked, ‘How did you feel when David Moyes made you and Rio Ferdinand watch videos of Phil Jagielka defending? Was it as big a deal to the pair of you as has since been made out?’.

The now-retired 34-year-old replied: “Players don’t always like what managers say to them. That’s normal – it even happened with Fergie.
So i don't think anyone can with 100% confidence say it was made up and that it didn't happen unless they were present at the club around that time.

Having said that if it did happen i don't think it's that bad. I don't think theres anything wrong with him showing United's defenders videos of how he had defenders working together at Everton if he wanted Ferdinand and Vidic to replicate those instructions.
 

RG 11

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He never confirmed it!

But then again it's Moyes.
From the article:
Ferdinand laughed off the claim when it was put to him two years ago, but admitted in his book he told Vidic after a video session with Moyes: 'I don't know what the f**k he just asked us to do.'

You're right that neither of them outright confirmed it but there's plenty of confirmation reading between the lines. And it just aligns with Moyes as a character.

He wouldn't even let the poor lads have chips :lol:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-claims-former-manchester-united-9733136.html
 

rcoobc

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Moyes tried to turn Manchester United into Everton.

Forgetting that Everton are shit
 

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It bothers me that just about every time an ex-United player speaks it generally seems to be total bollocks.

Jamie Carragher has us pegged better than just about any pundit on television, and he’s a scouser. That can’t be right.