Peter Schmeichel: United regret we didn't give David Moyes more time

antohan

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It's not mind-boggling. What he se said is sort of what we've all said in that Moyes brought in and all that United experience going out at once was bad and therefor he was never been able to cope in his first year. Then he's sacked and the same thing is repeated without much thought. Had Moyes been given another year it would have been better than him being sacked and LvG being brought in instead as Moyes would have had learned a ton what he did wrong and built on that.

You can disagree with that and be correct but that doesn't mean it's absolute bollocks. You can't really know that really, similarly to saying that brining in Mourinho would have been better which is a fair guess given the level of experience. What Schmeichel should have been asked by Keys was "wasn't it just wrong to hire Moyes in the first place given how inexperienced he was with running a club like Manchester United". I can imagine Schmeichel agreeing with that but that's me guessing like he did.
Even if you look past him being out of his depth, one obvious tweak would have been to take back on some of the staff he sacked. I can't for the life of me see him doing that, never struck me as someone ready to own up to his mistakes. Mourinho had the same flaw, but at least he had the faintest idea what the job required.
 

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It bothers me that just about every time an ex-United player speaks it generally seems to be total bollocks.

Jamie Carragher has us pegged better than just about any pundit on television, and he’s a scouser. That can’t be right.
Not Ole though :drool:

Carragher was spot on about us even back when he was a player.
 

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LVG had a clear idea about how he wanted the team to play and went about implementing it. I'd say he was unlucky in the way some of his big signings performed (Falcao, Schweinsteiger, di Maria), and I'd say he was too stubborn in managing the team / insisting on Rooney playing every match. However, you could tell he was a big coach and you could tell his imprint in the way United performed against other big teams. We eviscerated Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham under Van Gaal. And of course kept losing to Swansea. Repeatedly.

IMO it was LVG>Mourinho>Moyes on a scale of less shit to shit!
Yh I agree, I think LVG's tenure here was easily the best of those three. Some big ups and downs but he brought in some mouthwatering attacking talent (Di Maria, Falcao, Depay), won an FA cup and got us back into the CL whilst playing an awful brand of monotonous possession football. I feel like it was simply a case of not being able to implement the style of football he wanted, rather than him being a douche like Mou or just well out of his depth like Moyes.
 

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It bothers me that just about every time an ex-United player speaks it generally seems to be total bollocks.

Jamie Carragher has us pegged better than just about any pundit on television, and he’s a scouser. That can’t be right.
What's Carra said?
 

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Yes, that's the period between March and April 2015 when we played Spurs, Liverpool and City and beat them all comfortably. We actually lost to Chelsea after a Hazard counter giving Mourinho the opportunity to jibe about sterile domination. Nevertheless, we finished the season on a real high, but we weren't able to build on that the following season, due in part, to a typically poor transfer campaign. That summer we went after Ramos, Bale, Mueller and ended up with Depay and Darmian, which is not on Louis, but on the board/owners/CEO.

Also, during LVG reign, we beat City away, Arsenal home and away, won the FA Cup, and he promoted/gave minutes to Lingard, Wilson, Blackett, CBJ, McNair, TFM etc. In particular in Martial and Rashford you could see a glimpse of the future, which was exciting. Finally, I'd take Louis personality and news conferences over Mourinho every week. There's something about that Portuguese accent that just grates me. It might sound petty, but preferences many times are :)
Not sure that the board could have done anything about it. There was just no way to sign those players. Rummenige even publicly said that Woodward was calling/email-ing him every day for the Muller transfer, despite them making clear that they have absolutely no intention to sell him. Ramos was just going for a big contract for Madrid, and neither Bale, nor Madrid were planning to part ways. If you give unrealistic targets to the board, you cannot complain about them not being able to get those players.

Still, we spent a lot that year. Martial was crazy expensive, Schweinsteiger cheap but on very big wages, we signed Schneiderlin too. Then of course Depay, Darmian and Romero. Problem is that only Martial and Romero were successes. Still, the integration of Lingard and Rashford was great, and currently the entire trio in the attack is a LVG product.
 

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Your favourite footballers should be whisked off at the end of their final game into a witness protection programme, never to be seen again, only allowed to talk to family members for the rest of their days. They always ruin it. Just shut up, the whole lot of you.
 

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In the words of John McEnroe, you cannot be serious.

Giving him the job was worse then SAF retiring. Moyes came in with an impressive (for all the wrong reasons) record of 0 wins in 40+ matches away to Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and United. He played negative boring football at Everton that was his style of play that was never going to change because he became the manager of Manchester United. Unless we ended up with one of the best managers in the world, it needed to be a minimalist some who came in let the club run as it was, keep Mike Phelan as the assistant.
You don't play negative boring football when you've got the two best attacking fullbacks in the League bombing forward all game, and i'm guessing you've erased the 4-4 from memory ?
 

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Schmeichel is absolutely clueless about how to run the club, if anything he'd be even worse at it than Woodward.

Moyes shouldn't have got the the chance in the first place. He wasn't cut out from day 0 and had zero chance of adapting to a club of this size.

You give time to managers who have proven they can achieve success. To LVGs and Mourinhos. You don't give time to David fecking Moyes.
 

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You do realise SAF had been chasing him for years don't you ? Obviously not, or.....
He's the only one from that everton team I would've been happy to have at United. I don't remember SAF chasing him for years though considering how good Evra was.
 

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It's not mind-boggling. What he se said is sort of what we've all said in that Moyes brought in and all that United experience going out at once was bad and therefor he was never been able to cope in his first year. Then he's sacked and the same thing is repeated without much thought. Had Moyes been given another year it would have been better than him being sacked and LvG being brought in instead as Moyes would have had learned a ton what he did wrong and built on that.

You can disagree with that and be correct but that doesn't mean it's absolute bollocks. You can't really know that really, similarly to saying that brining in Mourinho would have been better which is a fair guess given the level of experience. What Schmeichel should have been asked by Keys was "wasn't it just wrong to hire Moyes in the first place given how inexperienced he was with running a club like Manchester United". I can imagine Schmeichel agreeing with that but that's me guessing like he did.
Not really though, because we'd have just had another bad season and would've lost out on a year of our potential recovery. Moyes had quite clearly lost the dressing room by the time he was sacked. There just wasn't any feasible way he could go into the following season as manager. The atmosphere had gotten beyond toxic.

And there's no guarantee Moyes would have learned from his mistakes. Throughout most of 2013-14 he continually blamed other people for his own failure. It was evident he was just out of depth and wasn't up to the job. There was no point in pretending otherwise.
 

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Yh I agree, I think LVG's tenure here was easily the best of those three. Some big ups and downs but he brought in some mouthwatering attacking talent (Di Maria, Falcao, Depay), won an FA cup and got us back into the CL whilst playing an awful brand of monotonous possession football. I feel like it was simply a case of not being able to implement the style of football he wanted, rather than him being a douche like Mou or just well out of his depth like Moyes.
Good managers (and he obviously was one in his prime) have to adapt if their style isn't working though. LVG refused to do so and persisted with Rooney as the focal point of our team even though he was finished, a fact that became evident early on in the season.

Most of the big name signings he brought in weren't particularly good and we scraped into the CL before being embarrassingly knocked out at the group stages the following year. His first year was semi-alright but I've never been able to agree with the narrative that his reign as a whole was anything other than terrible.
 

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True, and how we've come to rue that missed opportunity. How were we to know that Moyes would bounce straight back in Spain, winning the league with Sociedad and going on to be appointed as the new manager of Real Madrid. We can only dream of the countless European and domestic trophies he's won since leaving us, we should be thoroughly ashamed and embarrassed by our itchy trigger finger...
Yeah but as long as we learn from our mistakes....
 

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Yh I agree, I think LVG's tenure here was easily the best of those three. Some big ups and downs but he brought in some mouthwatering attacking talent (Di Maria, Falcao, Depay), won an FA cup and got us back into the CL whilst playing an awful brand of monotonous possession football. I feel like it was simply a case of not being able to implement the style of football he wanted, rather than him being a douche like Mou or just well out of his depth like Moyes.
I actually think LVG's tenure did the most damage to Utd in the long term. I agree that in terms of results, trophies he didn't fare too badly but he decimated our squad. He sold Rafael, Hernandez, Nani, Evans, Kagawa, Zaha and Welbeck, all whom could have a place in our squad now. His only signings that have turned out for the best were Martial, Shaw and Romero. He signed Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Falcao, Darmian, Depay, Rojo and Blind all failed signings.

Whilst Moyes was clearly awful results wise, and in terms of signings (Fellaini), he wasn't here long enough to do significant damage to the squad.

The atmosphere and feeling of the club has never been worse than during Mourinho's reign, but in terms of long term damage I'm not seeing that much evidence of it. He bought Lindelof, Pogba, Matic, and Lukaku, who arguably have all been successes, and we kicked him out before any of our prize assets left (Pogba, Martial, De Gea, Rashford). Looking at our squad now, it's the best it's been since Fergie.

LVG was definitely a douche. He treated some of our players who loved the club and would give anything for it like shit and turfed them out (Rafael).
 

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In what aspect. Moyes was hired as our manager before Woody became executive chairman, and he had nothing to do with Moyes' hiring. How it did make him an idiot by sacking Moyes?
He was an internal hire and the club knew that Gill was leaving before Moyes was appointed. If Woodward had no input into that decision it would be shocking.

Saying that, everything else about the transition was incredibly poorly managed so nothing would surprise me.
 

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Also, we were quite decent against top clubs. Multiple victories against Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Spurs, while Moyes managed to win a single game against top 6 opponents.

As bad as things were under Moyes, the feeling of helplessness every time we faced a big squad was something that was just impossible to handle. We lost 0-3 against Liverpool and 1-4 against City, and we were lucky in both matches to not have conceded more. Every fan knew that we were going to be thrashed on those games, and sure we did.

The following season, LVG defeated Liverpool home and away and defeated City too.
Didn't we lose 1-6 at home to City when SAF was the Gaffer ?
 

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Didn't we lose 1-6 at home to City when SAF was the Gaffer ?
I think the difference was very few expected to lose games big under SAF, certainly no one ever thought we didn't have a chance. Every team gets beaten and every team gets beaten badly sometimes. Under Moyes though we were hopeless vs any decent team never mind good sides, there was no hope we could beat top sides under Moyes.

We beat Stoke 3-2 and Arsenal 1-0 both at home those were our only two league wins against the teams that finished in the top 10 that year.

Come on mate you have to admit that was an awful record?

That record lead to the feeling of hopelessness @Revan is talking about.
 
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stevoc

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You don't play negative boring football when you've got the two best attacking fullbacks in the League bombing forward all game, and i'm guessing you've erased the 4-4 from memory ?
You're referring to a period of about 18 months there though. His Everton team did play decent stuff around 2012-2013, but he was there for 12 years. Most of those 12 years his teams played workmanlike percentage football.

He employed a similar style at United, Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham. So it's not like people are being unfair judging him on too short a period of time. The vast majority of his teams have played pragmatic football.

He's not a manager who is associated with stylish attacking football is he?
 

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He should never have been given the job in the first place, he won nothing at Everton and his first transfer targets were Fellaini and Baines.
Had he been given longer it might well have become even worse under him, the likes of Bale and other top level players were never going to sign for this guy.
A mistake to even think about him as a United manager. I think SAF tried to get him in as a coach/assistant manager at one point, but he was never a United manager.
Look at his track record since he left United.
 

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A lot of that coaching experience went out the door due to Moyes sacking them. He made many bad decisions like that because he was a bad manager. He wasn't able to cope with pretty much any aspect of the United job because he was a bad manager.

No amount of time would have changed that



Moyes would have built more shit and thats about it, we're lucky someone at the club decided to pull the trigger on Moyes when they did. If anything they waited too long, and this season shows what a positive manager can do.

Say what you want about Van Gaal and i have particularly his poor transfers. But he qualified for the CL and won an FA Cup. Moyes wouldn't have did either of those things.

Much like Mourinho this season Moyes had lost the players and lost the plot. No amount of time was going to turn that around. And it's not like Moyes has went onto other jobs and shown himself to be a great manager who was just unlucky, he's been shit at Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham too.

Whether the Everton job was a fluke or a perfect storm/lucky timing/right man-right place-right time or whatever. He hasn't been able to replicate that at another club because he's just not a good manager.
I'm not agreeing with his opinion but I can see where he's coming from. Moyes isn't a bad manager, he just isn't United standard. Possibly he was a good manager but has been unable to adapt with the times which would make him a bad manager today.
 

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Even if you look past him being out of his depth, one obvious tweak would have been to take back on some of the staff he sacked. I can't for the life of me see him doing that, never struck me as someone ready to own up to his mistakes. Mourinho had the same flaw, but at least he had the faintest idea what the job required.
I agree with that.
 

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Not really though, because we'd have just had another bad season and would've lost out on a year of our potential recovery. Moyes had quite clearly lost the dressing room by the time he was sacked. There just wasn't any feasible way he could go into the following season as manager. The atmosphere had gotten beyond toxic.

And there's no guarantee Moyes would have learned from his mistakes. Throughout most of 2013-14 he continually blamed other people for his own failure. It was evident he was just out of depth and wasn't up to the job. There was no point in pretending otherwise.
Schmeichel comments are really hinging on that aspect, Moyes learning from his mistakes which I agree is unlikely. Doesn't make Schmeichel's comments mind-boggling, you just have to see the point where he's coming from. Personally I don't think Moyes was ever good enough for the job but Schmeichel thinking that might be based on how highly rated he was by the professional community at the point of appointment.
 

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It was clear as day that Moyes was totally out of his depth. The only mistake we made was appointing him in the first place.
 

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I think the difference was very few expected to lose games big under SAF, certainly no one ever thought we didn't have a chance. Every team gets beaten and every team gets beaten badly sometimes. Under Moyes though we were hopeless vs any decent team never mind good sides, there was no hope we could beat top sides under Moyes.

We beat Stoke 3-2 and Arsenal 1-0 both at home those were our only two league wins against the teams that finished in the top 10 that year.

Come on mate you have to admit that was an awful record?

That record lead to the feeling of hopelessness @Revan is talking about.
We've been here before mate(not this thread obviously) when we took a short break from our numerous exchanges in the "Why we all love Fellaini" thread, and we're never gonna agree on Moyes either.

All i'll say is I was as numb as the next man(or woman)that cared about the club that season, I just never felt remove the Manager and everything would be tickety boo again, the problems run deeper, and some still remain 5 years later, Moyes was too easy a target for me......
 

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Didn't we lose 1-6 at home to City when SAF was the Gaffer ?
Ah, the game when you deliberately choose the worst match of him?

Did we ever lost twice to City and Liverpool, in addition to both Spurs and Chelsea in a single season? Did we ever get only 6 points in 10 matches against top 6 teams? Did we ever get only 1 victory against top 10?

In case you were wondering, the answers are yes, yes and yes. It all happened in the same season. You can guess who was the manager.
 

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You're referring to a period of about 18 months there though. His Everton team did play decent stuff around 2012-2013, but he was there for 12 years. Most of those 12 years his teams played workmanlike percentage football.

He employed a similar style at United, Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham. So it's not like people are being unfair judging him on too short a period of time. The vast majority of his teams have played pragmatic football.

He's not a manager who is associated with stylish attacking football is he?
Well he's no Bielsa that's for sure, he's more an organiser who get's the best out of all his players.
 

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I'm not agreeing with his opinion but I can see where he's coming from. Moyes isn't a bad manager, he just isn't United standard. Possibly he was a good manager but has been unable to adapt with the times which would make him a bad manager today.
I would agree with that mate clearly he did a good job at Everton but hasn't been able to replicate that elsewhere.

After the United job i wasn't convinced one failure made him a bad manager or past it. But the Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham jobs point to him being one or both now.
 
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stevoc

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We've been here before mate(not this thread obviously) when we took a short break from our numerous exchanges in the "Why we all love Fellaini" thread, and we're never gonna agree on Moyes either.

All i'll say is I was as numb as the next man(or woman)that cared about the club that season, I just never felt remove the Manager and everything would be tickety boo again, the problems run deeper, and some still remain 5 years later, Moyes was too easy a target for me......
Sometimes it is the case though, look at this season. Now i agree this club has problems with the structure and areas where it could definitely modernize.

But Moyes was truly awful to an extent that i feel many still underestimate. He had that team punching way below its weight.

And he may have received a lot of criticism some unfair but his behaviour and shit stirring during and after the job haven't exactly helped with his popularity among the majority of United fans or generated much sympathy towards him.
 

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Well he's no Bielsa that's for sure, he's more an organiser who get's the best out of all his players.
Well thats certainly one way of describing him mate, and i would agree that he definitely did that at Everton. His subsequent clubs not co much, certainly not getting the best out of players anyway.

But looking at his career as a whole he isn't the most expansive manager in the way he sets his teams up. So i think it is fair for people to say he has largely been a negative/defensive/pragmatic manager.

Though at times his teams do play entertaining attacking football. Especially Preston and Everton towards the end.