Potential Matic Replacements

VanGaalEra

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Whoever is better priced out of Neves and Rice would be a great signing. Personally I'd like us to try and go all out for Eriksen this summer given that his contract is winding down and Real Madrid will likely be focused more on Hazard this summer.

If we've got 200m to spend then I'd like this summer to be Wan Bissaka, Eriksen and Koilably or failing that Maguire. That would likely be the 200m right there. Probably the following summer we could go in for Sancho and Rice or Neves. I don't want to see us getting 4-5 new players to start. I think 3 is enough.
AWB (£40M), Koulibaly (£80M), Rice (no idea) and Sancho (£60M) would be amazing.

With some sales on top of it, we could do it for around £200M Net.
 

In Rainbows

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Interesting one bud, the only thing with him playing deep is does he have the physic for it, you could see him getting bullied and pressed quite easily, something that might come with a bit of experience and buffing up a little, 433 might suit if he plays to the left of a 3 so the formation we are playing at the moment could suit as he is not in the pocket, has space to run into but like Pogba starting from deep.

I do see what you mean re him being passive in games, hopefully this can be worked on as he progresses, definite very exciting potential with him and Greenwood.

If Ole gets the job (big if), happily sell Lukaku and have Gomes/Greenwood promoted to the first team squad as back up for Pogba and Rashford respectively, would be a big call but doing that, using that money on 4 urgent positions, personally be happy with that.
I don't think his size is a big deal, because like Scholes, he doesn't let defenders ask that question of himself. He's quick to release the ball by doing 1 touch passes, or he has little feints to give himself space, and his tight control gives less opportunities for the defense to do so. The one time where he does have to use body is when he goes for a tackle. He will get bullied in the air in that he won't try to contest as much, but that's really something not needed for a midfielder. I just view it as an extra dimension to a midfielder. Pogba is brilliant at using his size for example.
 
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Neves has the passing range but not very good defensively.

Rice very good defensively but is his passing range good enough?
 

StrettyEnder07

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I don't think his size is a big deal, because like Scholes, he doesn't let defenders ask that question of himself. He's quick to release the ball by doing 1 touch passes, or he has little feints to give himself space, and his tight control gives less opportunities for the defense to do so. The one time where he does have to use body is when he goes for a tackle. He will get bullied in the air in that he won't try to contest as much, but that's really something not needed for a midfielder. I just view it as an extra dimension to a midfielder. Pogba is brilliant at using his size for example.
Happy for him in the Pogba position most advanced of the 3 but would not want him any deeper than that personally, need to have a little bit more about you in the Matic/Herrera positions. Going forward yeah great but if you played say Pogba Gomes Matic, that would worry me defensively.

Fingers crossed Ole gets the job and be interesting to see him develop the young lads who are pushing for first team squad positions.
 

In Rainbows

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Happy for him in the Pogba position most advanced of the 3 but would not want him any deeper than that personally, need to have a little bit more about you in the Matic/Herrera positions. Going forward yeah great but if you played say Pogba Gomes Matic, that would worry me defensively.

Fingers crossed Ole gets the job and be interesting to see him develop the young lads who are pushing for first team squad positions.
That would be more so that Matic is slow. It's all dependent on who is part of the midfield trio. In the midfield 3 that you brought up, I would agree with you. If Gomes were to play, I would put Herrera. What you lose in Matic, you would gain in attacking threat, possession, and mobility.

All of this of course is dependent on Gomes developing right. I'm just saying that Gomes style of midfielder doesn't rule him out playing next to Pogba in the future.
 

StrettyEnder07

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That would be more so that Matic is slow. It's all dependent on who is part of the midfield trio. In the midfield 3 that you brought up, I would agree with you. If Gomes were to play, I would put Herrera. What you lose in Matic, you would gain in attacking threat, possession, and mobility.

All of this of course is dependent on Gomes developing right. I'm just saying that Gomes style of midfielder doesn't rule him out playing next to Pogba in the future.
Yeah defo mate, hopefully he does develop as most of us expect him to, love to see him and Greenwood, and maybe Chong develop and gain some first team experience.

I was hopeful on Fosu Mensah a few years back but he seems to have badly gone downhill. Tuanzebe be interesting as he is doing well at CB at Villa, maybe another loan for him next year though.
 

Lash

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Bit left field, but read an ESPN article about some of the Mexicans that could come over to Europe soon, following that Diego Lainez transfer.

Jonathan Gonzalez caught my eye when looking at them, just on Youtube. Had a bit of a Frenkie De Jong vibe, the way he picked the ball up from deep and dribbled with it. Looked a bit more aggressive though. Any one seen much of him to pass judgement?
 

Seanog911

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Big fan of Berge, 6'5 but very mobile. Good passer and quite imposing. Wouldn't cost a bomb either.
 

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Neves has the passing range but not very good defensively.

Rice very good defensively but is his passing range good enough?
Ideally buy both and play a trio of:

---Pogba
-------Rice--Neves

They complement each other perfectly and free up the right wing at the same time.

Our right winger it's currently a possession player (either Lingard or Mata) rather than a risk taker. That's because the right side of our midfield sits so deep that someone else needs to occupy the space around the opposition's midfield and recycle the ball.

Our left winger can afford to take risks because Shaw and Pogba are there to support them retaining the ball.

Because of this way our midfield is set up, our build-up play and attack gets deliberately skewed to one side.

But if the right side of midfield was defensively aware, calm under pressure and also creative, it would transform that flank of the pitch.

The flipside to fielding both Pogba and Neves is that we would require a full blooded holding DM, which is where Rice might fit in.

The great thing about a trio in that mould is that it can handle all our usual tactical approachs: 4231, 433 (backward and forward pointing triangle), and 4-diamond-2. It's also got enough versatility to handle injuries. At the moment, an injury to Pogba and we're fecked. But with Neves (or someone of that Herrera-but-better-on-the-ball ilk) there, I wouldn't be so concerned.

Rice, Neves and a central defender and we're competing for the league, imo (other transfer options might be available).
 

Rozay

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Dendoncker.

I also think Verratti may be gettable if we wanted to go down that route, but he’d cost a lot.
 

Adnan

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I'd prefer a defensive midfielder that is Mobile very good at defending.
I've been saying this for a while now.

We need someone that is fast and mobile. He doesn't have to be the best passer of the ball either. Then also sign Ndombele from Lyon and the midfield starts looking like a Manchester United one.

Maybe Declan Rice could be the answer?
 

Keeps It tidy

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Houssem Aouar is the Lyon midfielder that would make a lot more sense for us. He is the press resistant type midfielder that we are lacking. But, like N'Dombele he would not be a Matic replacement.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Has anyone considered that we might not technically go with what we class as a standard DM and maybe just go to two that will play there with lots of mobility and energy to snuff things out and just allow Pogba to do his thing with complete freedom.

It’s just I was thinking after watching Lyon vs PSG they really didn’t have a midfield. It started with Ndombele and Aouar and Fekir just doing his thing but Aouar was in a way non existent in midfield and I’m not suggesting we do something as drastic as that but we could easily have something like Ndombele with Herrera or Ndombele with Fred or even Fred and Herrera possibly just don’t give them as free a licence as Aouar had.

Having that energy to recover or cover the fullbacks and so on might be just as effective as having a guy just sitting there. Personally I think I would like Ndombele and Neves but I really don’t trust either to be a sole DM alone and think either needs a partner or each other.

I just think if Ole gets the job, our style of play is more likely to be fast, energetic and just beating people in to a bloody pulp with that speed, power and energy coupled with very gifted players. I’d love someone like a Modric who will control and play nice stuff but I just don’t think that is how we will be and it’s not like Neves or Ndombele can’t play that way if needed.

Edit: I realise Neves doesn’t fit the “energetic midfielder” profile but I think he and Ndombele could work in a similar manner.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Neves has the passing range but not very good defensively.

Rice very good defensively but is his passing range good enough?
I’m sure I saw someone put up stats the other day somewhere on this site which contradict that statement. I can’t recall what thread it was in but it was something to do with the DM at Roma. Was actually quite surprised at how good his defensive stats were.
 

Devil may care

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I’m sure I saw someone put up stats the other day somewhere on this site which contradict that statement. I can’t recall what thread it was in but it was something to do with the DM at Roma. Was actually quite surprised at how good his defensive stats were.
Yes, I can't remember who posted them but Neves defensive stats were a lot more impressive than expected. The whole "We need a physical beast" thing is overplayed IMO, we need more mobility in there yes, Marquinhos and Verratti were more mobile than Matic, but they were excellent technically with the ball as well and that was key, just buying some terrier wont help matters against teams of this quality as they can just sit on Poigba if he's the only one technically taking the game on in possession.
 

Mcking

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Houssem Aouar is the Lyon midfielder that would make a lot more sense for us. He is the press resistant type midfielder that we are lacking. But, like N'Dombele he would not be a Matic replacement.
Would you take him over Herrera? Aouar I mean.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Yes, I can't remember who posted them but Neves defensive stats were a lot more impressive than expected. The whole "We need a physical beast" thing is overplayed IMO, we need more mobility in there yes, Marquinhos and Verratti were more mobile than Matic, but they were excellent technically with the ball as well and that was key, just buying some terrier wont help matters against teams of this quality as they can just sit on Poigba if he's the only one technically taking the game on in possession.
Yeah it was actually a great post the guy had created with all the stats for some of the top players in Europe for that position so top work to whomever that was.

:lol: If you see my post above I do mention energy and movement but in saying that someone who can play. Ndombele can play and so can guys like Herrera and well Fred used to be able to play but they can all get about and get the ball back, cover spaces, protect us but have enough to set up a move, it’s not just about running around putting stuff out, they have to be able to do some thing with the ball and be comfortable with it.

I really like Neves and even with those great stats I think he’d be better with a partner with more energy or physical presence to compliment what Neves can do.
 

Adnan

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Yes, I can't remember who posted them but Neves defensive stats were a lot more impressive than expected. The whole "We need a physical beast" thing is overplayed IMO, we need more mobility in there yes, Marquinhos and Verratti were more mobile than Matic, but they were excellent technically with the ball as well and that was key, just buying some terrier wont help matters against teams of this quality as they can just sit on Poigba if he's the only one technically taking the game on in possession.
Nobody is saying we should buy a limited player to play as DM. I would much prefer a player like Fernandinho over someone like Neves though. Neves has been hot and cold for Wolves and hasn't shown nearly enough to warrant a move to us.
 

Devil may care

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Yeah it was actually a great post the guy had created with all the stats for some of the top players in Europe for that position so top work to whomever that was.

:lol: If you see my post above I do mention energy and movement but in saying that someone who can play. Ndombele can play and so can guys like Herrera and well Fred used to be able to play but they can all get about and get the ball back, cover spaces, protect us but have enough to set up a move, it’s not just about running around putting stuff out, they have to be able to do some thing with the ball and be comfortable with it.

I really like Neves and even with those great stats I think he’d be better with a partner with more energy or physical presence to compliment what Neves can do.
It was, I wish I could find it but there's 3 or 4 threads it might have been in, it all started with a discussion over Pellegrini.

I agree, that is my minor reservation with Neves, does he get around enough to partner Herrera effectively, but it needs to be a player that can offer us something on the ball as well as off it is my main point, there needs to be a balance as it's too easy to double up on Pogba if you have no one else in midfield that can create, this is City's strength, if one Silva doesn't get you, the other will, or De Bruyne will if he's the other #8 and even Gundogan is stepping up now as well.

Nobody is saying we should buy a limited player to play as DM. I would much prefer a player like Fernandinho over someone like Neves though. Neves has been hot and cold for Wolves and hasn't shown nearly enough to warrant a move to us.
Fernandinho is pretty unique though, a thorough DM who can also pass it like a DLP, you wont find many of them around, and while I can see the question marks over Neves given the current partners he'd be playing with, I'd prefer him to shouts like Dacoure, Rice, Ndidi and Ndombele.
 

Kammy26

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No way are we replacing Matic. I would be very surprised if we even get a right winger this summer. It seems the board is happy giving out new deals to crap players.

I have seen some posters say we will have 300 million to spend, haha I think they need a reality check. I hope I am wrong but I can see the club starting to penny pinch ala Arsenal.
 

Cabin Clown

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Neves or Rodri. We should prioritise a link up player along the lines of Verratti last night though.
 

Adnan

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It was, I wish I could find it but there's 3 or 4 threads it might have been in, it all started with a discussion over Pellegrini.

I agree, that is my minor reservation with Neves, does he get around enough to partner Herrera effectively, but it needs to be a player that can offer us something on the ball as well as off it is my main point, there needs to be a balance as it's too easy to double up on Pogba if you have no one else in midfield that can create, this is City's strength, if one Silva doesn't get you, the other will, or De Bruyne will if he's the other #8 and even Gundogan is stepping up now as well.



Fernandinho is pretty unique though, a thorough DM who can also pass it like a DLP, you wont find many of them around, and while I can see the question marks over Neves given the current partners he'd be playing with, I'd prefer him to shouts like Dacoure, Rice, Ndidi and Ndombele.
Ndombele is more a Herrera replacement that could have the same impact as Arturo Vidal IMO. Ndombele has been much more impressive thus far than Neves in their short careers albeit they're different players. Ndombele has banged with City and PSG's midfield on numerous occasions and shown his immense potential. Ndombele is by far the bigger talent from the evidence at hand.
 

Joseunited

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No way are we replacing Matic. I would be very surprised if we even get a right winger this summer. It seems the board is happy giving out new deals to crap players.

I have seen some posters say we will have 300 million to spend, haha I think they need a reality check. I hope I am wrong but I can see the club starting to penny pinch ala Arsenal.
Based on what exactly?Just because we've given contract extensions to players nearing the end of their contracts.
 

CM10

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Big fan of Berge, 6'5 but very mobile. Good passer and quite imposing. Wouldn't cost a bomb either.
You'd expect Solskjaer would know all about him too so this could be a decent shout.
 

Mcking

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Different type of midfielders but, yes.
Despite Herrera's energy, tenacity and good qualities, I feel we would never be able to properly and consistently control games in advanced positions with him and Pogba as the advanced midfielders. Pogba although class, is not the best at controlling games and Herrera is a bit too conservative, is unable to carry the ball, is reluctant to get into tight positions, and lacks that extra needed bite in possession.
It does not always bode well if your deepest midfielder is the best in possession and I'd definitely prefer a Modric, Verratti, Kroos, Xavi, Eriksen, De Bruyne in Herrera's position - even if of inferior quality - with Pogba on the left and a proper defensive midfielder that is able to move the ball quickly behind them.
A top central midfielder should be good in possession to a certain degree, and should be able to pass very well or carry the ball very well. Herrera is neither and is average in possession. Coupled with Matic's limited mobility and reluctance to pass the ball quickly, it usually leads to a lot of sideways and unambitions passes in our half. I don't know if it's got anything to do with coaching, but there's definitely a huge room for improvement.
 

Red1968

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When I first saw this thread title I couldn't help but think "a replacement for Matic? how about a pylon at this point". He is such a pale shadow of himself that he needs to be gone. Far too many lazy plays, slow to track back, loses his man in bad areas, etc. Matic is done. Compare him to some of the hustle you saw from PSG players last night and its even more embarrassing. I like the Sander Berge idea. He's young and a big body.
 

VeevaVee

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Despite Herrera's energy, tenacity and good qualities, I feel we would never be able to properly and consistently control games in advanced positions with him and Pogba as the advanced midfielders. Pogba although class, is not the best at controlling games and Herrera is a bit too conservative, is unable to carry the ball, is reluctant to get into tight positions, and lacks that extra needed bite in possession.
It does not always bode well if your deepest midfielder is the best in possession and I'd definitely prefer a Modric, Verratti, Kroos, Xavi, Eriksen, De Bruyne in Herrera's position - even if of inferior quality - with Pogba on the left and a proper defensive midfielder that is able to move the ball quickly behind them.
A top central midfielder should be good in possession to a certain degree, and should be able to pass very well or carry the ball very well. Herrera is neither and is average in possession. Coupled with Matic's limited mobility and reluctance to pass the ball quickly, it usually leads to a lot of sideways and unambitions passes in our half. I don't know if it's got anything to do with coaching, but there's definitely a huge room for improvement.
I'm inclined to agree. Good squad player now he's playing better again. Kinda think we need a bit more. We just have so many areas that need/could do with improvement though.
 

Mcking

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I'm inclined to agree. Good squad player now he's playing better again. Kinda think we need a bit more. We just have so many areas that need/could do with improvement though.
I feel he's got to take more responsibility in possession. Whether he is able to do that remains to be seen. He is a just way too passive and unambitious for a guy that plays such important midfield position.
 

Devil may care

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Ndombele is more a Herrera replacement that could have the same impact as Arturo Vidal IMO. Ndombele has been much more impressive thus far than Neves in their short careers albeit they're different players. Ndombele has banged with City and PSG's midfield on numerous occasions and shown his immense potential. Ndombele is by far the bigger talent from the evidence at hand.
They are very different types of players so I personally wouldn't compare them, they offer different things to the team, and you're right that Ndombele is more of a player we'd bring in to compete with Herrera than Matic, I was saying last summer we should have went for him over Fred, but he's not what we need at this juncture as Fred will get at least another season.
 
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I’m sure I saw someone put up stats the other day somewhere on this site which contradict that statement. I can’t recall what thread it was in but it was something to do with the DM at Roma. Was actually quite surprised at how good his defensive stats were.
Yes, I can't remember who posted them but Neves defensive stats were a lot more impressive than expected. The whole "We need a physical beast" thing is overplayed IMO, we need more mobility in there yes, Marquinhos and Verratti were more mobile than Matic, but they were excellent technically with the ball as well and that was key, just buying some terrier wont help matters against teams of this quality as they can just sit on Poigba if he's the only one technically taking the game on in possession.
When you guys find it please share x
 

Mcking

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When you guys find it please share x
Leaning towards an AMC, let's say David Silva type of MC. Pellegrini will be great together with a hardworking tackler, something I find perfect in an attacking setup with his great key passes, crosses and dribbling. He shouldn't really be compared to a lot of the other players discussed. Just some stats to explain:

Player - Tackles/Interceptions/Clearances/Blocks/Dispossessed/Bad Control (Per game)

Herrera -- 2,5 / 2,1 / 1,3 / 0,4 / 0,4 / 0,6
Neves ---- 2,3 / 2,1 / 1,0 / 0,6 / 0,8 / 0,9
Ndidi ----- 3,2 / 1,9 / 2,2 / 0,2 / 1,0 / 1,7
Lemina --- 2,6 / 2,2 / 1,4 / 0,2 / 1,6 / 1,2
Matic ----- 1,8 / 1,3 / 2,0 / 0,6 / 1,4 / 1,0
Barella --- 3,2 / 1,4 / 0,8 / 0,1 / 2,0 / 3,2
Pellegrini - 1,8 / 0,3 / 1,0 / 0,1 / 1,7 / 1,9

Pellegrini isn't even close to match the defensive stats to the others. Herrera with outstanding numbers.

Player (Goals/Assist) - Shots/Key Passes/Dribbles/Crosses/Long Balls/Through Balls (Per game)

Pellegrini (1/3) - 1,6 / 2,6 / 0,9 / 1,6 / 0,9 / 0,2
Neves (3/2) ---- 2,4 / 0,8 / 0,3 / 0,2 / 6,5 / 0
Barella (1/0) ---- 1,4 / 1,0 / 0,9 / 0,6 / 3,0 / 0,1
Herrera (2/3) --- 0,9 / 0,8 / 0,4 / 0,1 / 1,6 / 0,1
Ndidi (2/0) ------ 1,8 / 0,6 / 0,9 / 0,0 / 2,7 / 0,1
Lemina (0/1) --- 1,2 / 0,5 / 1,1 / 0,2 / 2,2 / 0
Matic (1/0) ------ 0,5 / 0,5 / 0,7 / 0,1 / 4,3 / 0

And here the opposite, the 2,6 Key Passes per game, 1,6 Crosses and 0,2 Through Balls are unmatched. Clearly a player that compliments Herrera/Matic. He would be what Silva is next to Fernandinho, only 11 years younger and obviously not as good (yet).

Neves the standout player when you look at all stats combined, but he also cost 3 times as much as Pellegrini.