VAR to be used in CL knockout stage

peridigm

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
13,780
Seeing confirmed reports all over Twitter. It’s about time.
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
4,595
Supports
Chelsea
Great news, they probably felt pressure after that Sterling trip over his own feet penalty and harsh Ronaldo red card. It's worked very well in the La Liga games I've watched so far this season. All the other big leagues have it already and the referees will have experience of using it from domestic games. Only the English oneswon't, at least they'll have a chance to learn ready for next season, if they get any games.
 

Moiraine

Full Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
2,981
Location
Oslo
Wonderful, so no Barca offside goals to help overcome 4-5 goals deficit against PSG then ;)
 

Henrik Larsson

Still logged in at RAWK (help!)
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
5,421
Location
Swashbucklington
Ajax fans were quite emotional about that decision, which is somewhat understandable since they were the better team in the first half.

There's absolutely no reason at all to assume that Skomina and the VAR wouldn't have made the exact same decision if it was Real Madrid scoring a goal like that though. Making all the talk about how the VAR is useless or ruining football quite silly.
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,297
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
Courtois is in no man’s land there, in the process of checking his movement forward because he knows the striker is heading it first. That he doesn’t appeal anything is telling.

Silly and unnecessary decision.
 

BobbyManc

Full Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
7,750
Location
The Wall
Supports
Man City
Courtois is in no man’s land there, in the process of checking his movement forward because he knows the striker is heading it first. That he doesn’t appeal anything is telling.

Silly and unnecessary decision.
Yep. VAR is fine in principle, but they need to use it sparingly. Only use it for blatantly wrong decisions, otherwise you get stupid calls like today. The rules exist for a reason, to stop teams gaining unfair advantages. Tadic's position had zero bearing on the goal. VAR is going to be damaging for football if it continues to be used in the manner that it is.
 

Henrik Larsson

Still logged in at RAWK (help!)
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
5,421
Location
Swashbucklington
Yep. VAR is fine in principle, but they need to use it sparingly. Only use it for blatantly wrong decisions, otherwise you get stupid calls like today. The rules exist for a reason, to stop teams gaining unfair advantages. Tadic's position had zero bearing on the goal. VAR is going to be damaging for football if it continues to be used in the manner that it is.
It was Skomina's decision in the end though, not the VAR's. What you're describing sounds a bit like a have your cake and eat it too situation.
 

BobbyManc

Full Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
7,750
Location
The Wall
Supports
Man City
It was Skomina's decision in the end though, not the VAR's. What you're describing sounds a bit like a have your cake and eat it too situation.
It's irrelevant whose decision it is. The point is calls like that should not be getting overturned by VAR. It's not a 'cake and eat it' situation, the whole point of VAR was that it was to be used sparingly for "clear and obvious errors", yet it's being used to overturn extremely close calls.
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
23,866
Location
New York City
The ref was an absolute disgrace in the Ajax - Madrid match. Chalks off an Ajax goal, and then completely ignores a foul in the buildup for the Asensio goal.
 

Inter Yer Nan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
6,380
Location
Los Angeles, CA (from UK)
VAR isn't there to correct decisions. It's there to help the sides that the powers that be want to see succeed. It wouldn't have been implemented if they really want to get all the decisions right.
 

yumtum

DUX' bumchum
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
7,117
Location
Wales
I think I'm going to give up on football, the corruption/incompetence used to be behind the scenes so no one could see it, but now it piercing that thin veil.
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
23,866
Location
New York City
It was Skomina's decision in the end though, not the VAR's. What you're describing sounds a bit like a have your cake and eat it too situation.
He wants to have a career as a referee. Once the incident was called back for video review, there was only one outcome.
 

Henrik Larsson

Still logged in at RAWK (help!)
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
5,421
Location
Swashbucklington
It's irrelevant whose decision it is. The point is calls like that should not be getting overturned by VAR. It's not a 'cake and eat it' situation, the whole point of VAR was that it was to be used sparingly for "clear and obvious errors", yet it's being used to overturn extremely close calls.
You clearly don't understand the amount of subjectivity or arbitrariness involved in separating those two.

Same with your talk about Tadic' position having zero bearing on the goal, that's simply your opinion or interpretation and fair enough. But according to the current offside rules there wasn't really anything wrong with Skomina's interpretation either.

In the end you'll always end up with close calls and discussions like this, if you don't want any of that you should be against the implementation of VAR in football which is fair enough again. But then again the same VAR will make it 99% sure that the good old Thierry Henry handball goal will be disallowed, for which you say you do want the referees getting video assistance. That's what I mean regarding having your cake and eating it too.
 

Member 93275

Guest
Even if you disallow the Ajax valid goal, how can you allow the Madrid goal when there was a clear foul on De Jong which was more suspect as compared to how active the actually non-offside Ajax player was in obstructing the flapping goal keeper without chance. I believe in VAR in that it generally should improve the error to correct call ratio, but here it seemed like a cowards excuse to turn decisions in favor of the richest team, which is very damaging to VAR. It shouldn't be used to indulge the big teams like Madrid.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GatoLoco

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
3,214
Supports
Real Madrid
You clearly don't understand the amount of subjectivity or arbitrariness involved in separating those two.

Same with your talk about Tadic' position having zero bearing on the goal, that's simply your opinion or interpretation and fair enough. But according to the current offside rules there wasn't really anything wrong with Skomina's interpretation either.

In the end you'll always end up with close calls and discussions like this, if you don't want any of that you should be against the implementation of VAR in football which is fair enough again. But then again the same VAR will make it 99% sure that the good old Thierry Henry handball goal will be disallowed, for which you say you do want the referees getting video assistance. That's what I mean regarding having your cake and eating it too.
What are the current offside rules like? My understanding is the Ajax player needed to block Courtois view for the offside to get called, and I don't think that was the case in this situation. The goal should have stood.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Even if you disallow the Ajax valid goal, how can you allow the Madrid goal when there was a clear foul on De Jong which was less suspect as compared to how active the actually non-offside Ajax player was in obstructing the flapping goal keeper without chance. I believe in VAR in that it generally should improve the error to correct call ratio, but here it seemed like a cowards excuse to turn decisions in favor of the richest team, which is very damaging to VAR.
VAR is used only for goals, penalties, red cards and offsides which result in goals.
 

Henrik Larsson

Still logged in at RAWK (help!)
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
5,421
Location
Swashbucklington
What are the current offside rules like? My understanding is the Ajax player needed to block Courtois view for the offside to get called, and I don't think that was the case in this situation. The goal should have stood.
Not only or simply the view from the way I read it.

“Interfering with an opponent” means:

Preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball. For example, by clearly obstructing the goalkeeper’s line of vision or movement

https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/5. law 11_554.pdf
 

GatoLoco

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
3,214
Supports
Real Madrid
Even if you disallow the Ajax valid goal, how can you allow the Madrid goal when there was a clear foul on De Jong which was less suspect as compared to how active the actually non-offside Ajax player was in obstructing the flapping goal keeper without chance. I believe in VAR in that it generally should improve the error to correct call ratio, but here it seemed like a cowards excuse to turn decisions in favor of the richest team, which is very damaging to VAR.
I thought it was a foul at first, as you did, but now I have more doubts.


If you have a look at the second movement De Jong makes it looks like Lucas Vazquez is fouling De Jong, but if you pay attention to the first movement he makes I think it might be an obstruction.
 

Member 93275

Guest
I thought it was a foul at first, as you did, but now I have more doubts.


If you have a look at the second movement De Jong makes it looks like Lucas Vazquez is fouling De Jong, but if you pay attention to the first movement he makes I think it might be an obstruction.
Fine, an interpretation. The point is that both the interpretations go in favor of the richest team.
 

fallengt

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
5,543
It was correct call. Tadic was blocking Cortouis in an offside position
 
Last edited:

GatoLoco

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
3,214
Supports
Real Madrid

BobbyManc

Full Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
7,750
Location
The Wall
Supports
Man City
You clearly don't understand the amount of subjectivity or arbitrariness involved in separating those two.

Same with your talk about Tadic' position having zero bearing on the goal, that's simply your opinion or interpretation and fair enough. But according to the current offside rules there wasn't really anything wrong with Skomina's interpretation either.

In the end you'll always end up with close calls and discussions like this, if you don't want any of that you should be against the implementation of VAR in football which is fair enough again. But then again the same VAR will make it 99% sure that the good old Thierry Henry handball goal will be disallowed, for which you say you do want the referees getting video assistance. That's what I mean regarding having your cake and eating it too.
It's not an opinion to say Tadic's position had no influence on the goal, it's an indisputable fact. If you remove him from the situation Courtois does not save the goal. You're deliberately being argumentative if you're seriously suggesting that the incident was a 'clear and obvious error'. If the linesman originally gives offside then I'd also be annoyed if VAR overturned it. It was a call which could have gone either way, and thus should not be requiring the intervention of VAR to overturn the decision. I am against the use of VAR if it's going to be used in the present fashion and disallow goals such as the one today. It's not a binary choice between no VAR and VAR but it's used to rule on the most trivial of debatable infractions, which is how you're presenting it.
 

GatoLoco

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
3,214
Supports
Real Madrid
Fine, an interpretation. The point is that both the interpretations go in favor of the richest team.
None of them are 50-50 calls imo. The goals should've been stood in both cases. The referee got it very wrongly with the offside imo, it's a huge mistake.
 

Vialli_92

Full Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
2,672
Location
Ireland
Supports
Juventus
Don't know what the complaints are about it was the correct decision to disallow the goal, he was in an offside position interfering with play
 

Snow

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
33,225
Location
Lousy Smarch weather
It was correct call. Tadic was blocking Cortouis in an offside position
Even if he wasn't blocking him, which he really wasn't, he was in an offside position and affected play.

Vasquez thing looked more like a Jong foul than anything. VAR didn't miss it.

Our ref was just bad. Kimpembe should have gotten a 2nd yellow but not a straight red and therefor VAR couldn't intervene.
 

fallengt

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
5,543
Even if you disallow the Ajax valid goal, how can you allow the Madrid goal when there was a clear foul on De Jong which was more suspect as compared to how active the actually non-offside Ajax player was in obstructing the flapping goal keeper without chance. I believe in VAR in that it generally should improve the error to correct call ratio, but here it seemed like a cowards excuse to turn decisions in favor of the richest team, which is very damaging to VAR. It shouldn't be used to indulge the big teams like Madrid.
Why would it matter though. Vazquez didn't do much after that. VAR is for red card, goal and penalty only reviews
 

MikeKing

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
5,125
Supports
Bournemouth
Even if he wasn't blocking him, which he really wasn't, he was in an offside position and affected play.

Vasquez thing looked more like a Jong foul than anything. VAR didn't miss it.

Our ref was just bad. Kimpembe should have gotten a 2nd yellow but not a straight red and therefor VAR couldn't intervene.
I think VAR could have intervened if the ref gave a freekick. I think they could have said, have a look at that and decide if you want to give a red card?
 

Schneckerl

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
2,704

I like that they are explaining the decision publicly. Would have been needed during the WC.
 

Berbaclass

Fallen Muppet. Lest we never forget
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
37,976
Location
Cooper Station
None of those apply in that case imo. It should've been a goal.
You’re joking right :lol:

How was Tadic not obstructing Courtois vision? Never mind stopping him from moving forward.

Why don’t people understand the rules...
 

SadlerMUFC

Thinks for himself
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
5,746
Location
Niagara Falls, Canada
Courtois is in no man’s land there, in the process of checking his movement forward because he knows the striker is heading it first. That he doesn’t appeal anything is telling.

Silly and unnecessary decision.
Completely agree. How they can say the player interfered with the keeper is a head scratcher. They should just check if it was offside and that's it. Slow anything down enough and you can find something. Courtois reaction said it all. In other words, he had no reaction. If he was interfered with he would be the first to let the ref know. Brutal decision...
 

SadlerMUFC

Thinks for himself
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
5,746
Location
Niagara Falls, Canada
Don't know what the complaints are about it was the correct decision to disallow the goal, he was in an offside position interfering with play
I would agree if he was doing something to interfere with play, but he wasn't. He was moving back towards an onside position and a horribly out of position Courtois hits him in the back. The player didn't make any motion towards the ball. It just seems off to me. I understand what they are getting at with their explanation but it just doesn't seem right. If Courtois was interfered with he would be the first to let the ref know. Instead Courtois reaction was one of "oh shit, I messed up". For me, the VAR should only check if the original play was offside. If we look at replays enough we are bound to find a foul somewhere and pretty soon no goals will count...