Potential Matic Replacements

[Lash]

Explain

Hmm, maybe much more is an overstatement, but I think he's played at a higher level than Rice and performed just as well to justify our DM spot, over someone like Rice - who's no doubt a talent.

 

[NoPace]

Ive seen crazier things happen. Give it another 5 years and we may be considering him as a top 5 Scottish talent.

I'm just saying the odds are far, far more likely has a very good career like a Snodgrass or Barry Ferguson (or Drinkwater or Michael Keane if you prefer to think in United terms) than good enough to start for United.

 

[Lash]

Personally I want all my midfielders to be better on the ball than he is, we got away with it vs PSG last night as they choked, but you have to usually keep and use the ball better than McTominay and Pereira did, and I know McTominay's pass accuracy was in the 90's last night but short, 5 yard sideways passing will always keep your stats up, to me the player from deep needs to be consistently able to thread it through the lines into Pogba and the forwards, and he can't do that. If you are suggesting him as a pure DM, like say Casemiro? Then we'd need to change Ander as at least 2 of the 3 in that midfield need to be good and proactive on the ball IMO and Ander is better at pressing and tackling than passing, he has a pass in his locker but he's not a consistently good passer and lacks range.

Yeah, like if you take the links to Bruno Fernandes, he could play infront of him, even with Pogba and it would work IMO.

 

[kundalini]

This forum has been consistently wrong on McTominay, yet tons of contributors don't even reassess their opinion based on the evidence in front of them.

It was clear from the Swansea away League Cup game that he had potential, though needed to improve a lot. Benfica CL match did fine. A few FA Cup games in which he looked limited. Bristol City defeat not a great performance. Bournemouth and Huddersfield PL home games perfectly ok. Personally I would have thought that even people not paying that much attention would have figured out he was a decent player after the Sevilla, Chelsea, Palace, Liverpool run of games but apparently not.

Seriously, it's getting ridiculous.

The discussion of his skill-set seems to come from people who clearly haven't watched all his performances. Even in the final third, his weakest zone by far, he has still shown the occasional high quality cross and finish (on tour, and more recently in U23s) to think he might contribute a couple of goals and a similar number of assists in a season, if he was a regular starter.

I say this having thought he was completely out of his depth when I watched him play as a make-shift striker in the U23s because they didn't have a natural centre forward. Then I watched him in the first team, on the summer tour, game after game last season. Slowly it became clear why Mourinho selected him.

Then Solskjaer arrives, McTominay initially injured then seemingly out of favour, talk of a loan, then a surprising contract extension. Gets in the team due to injuries. Liverpool, Palace, Southampton, PSG. A few more redcafe posters now persuaded that Scott can play a bit.

I could go on about the age curve and the tendency for players to perform better when given a run of games but I doubt even that would convince some on here.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

McTominay is better defensively than Matic and has a better engine, but Matic is quite a unique player.
Not many holding midfielders can dribble their way past 2-3 players.

 

[Ekeke]

Hmm, maybe much more is an overstatement, but I think he's played at a higher level than Rice and performed just as well to justify our DM spot, over someone like Rice - who's no doubt a talent.

Some of his best games have been against the top teams in the league. So I dont see it

 

[Lash]

Some of his best games have been against the top teams in the league. So I dont see it

Yeah, maybe I'm overstating Scott's performances, but I think there's a difference doing if it for United vs West ham. It just doesn't sit with me well that people just want a shiny new toy for DM when we have a player playing pretty well there.

 

[Ander herrera the warrior]

McTominay is better defensively than Matic and has a better engine, but Matic is quite a unique player.
Not many holding midfielders can dribble their way past 2-3 players.

Mctominay is not better defensively than Matic neither he has a better engine. Matic is highly underrated on this forum I guess. He does some blunder at times which can be costly but if you take that out, he is an excellent defensive midfield who allows Pogba and Herrera to do their thing while protecting the defence well.

I'm not downplaying Mctominay but I think we should be happy if he eventually becomes a Nicky Butt for us.

 

[sideshow_bob]

We need a ball-winner imo. Someone who runs like mad to get the ball to Pogba.

I wonder if Casemiro/Kante fancy a new challenge.

Tier 1: Kante, Allan, Ndidi, Partey, Casemiro, Brozovic

Tier 2: Samassaekou, Sangare, Berge, Grillitsch, Gueye, Delaney, Roca, Zubeldia, Kondogbia, Bakayoko, Ascacibar, Rice

Hopefully, we get a new engine from Tier 1.

 

[Ander herrera the warrior]

We need a ball-winner imo. Someone who runs like mad to get the ball to Pogba.

I wonder if Casemiro fancies a new challenge.

Tier 1: Kante, Allan, Ndidi, Partey, Casemiro, Brozovic

Tier 2: Samassaekou, Sangare, Berge, Grillitsch, Gueye, Delaney

Hopefully, we get a new engine from Tier 1.

We already have Herrera as a ball winner. I think we just lack a deep lying playmaker as both Matic and Herrera are not creative enough.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Mctominay is not better defensively than Matic neither he has a better engine. Matic is highly underrated on this forum I guess. He does some blunder at times which can be costly but if you take that out, he is an excellent defensive midfield who allows Pogba and Herrera to do their thing while protecting the defence well.

I'm not downplaying Mctominay but I think we should be happy if he eventually becomes a Nicky Butt for us.

Matic's positioning and anticipation are 10x better than McT. McT has done a job in midfield, but there is a reason we have failed to have any sort of real control in the middle of the park when him, Fred, and Pereria were slotted in. All three tend to get caught out of position quite often.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Mctominay is not better defensively than Matic neither he has a better engine. Matic is highly underrated on this forum I guess. He does some blunder at times which can be costly but if you take that out, he is an excellent defensive midfield who allows Pogba and Herrera to do their thing while protecting the defence well.

I'm not downplaying Mctominay but I think we should be happy if he eventually becomes a Nicky Butt for us.

He’s comfortably better than Matic defensively, and less prone to the said blunders, which are a huge deal for a defensive player.
He’s obviously got a better engine too, that’s not debatable even.
Matic is a very good player with the ball, but he’s not very good without it.

 

[sideshow_bob]

We already have Herrera as a ball winner. I think we just lack a deep lying playmaker as both Matic and Herrera are not creative enough.

Herrera turns 30 this August and is out of a contract this summer. It's March & we are still yet to agree on a new deal with him.

Herrera is looking for 1 last payday. Meanwhile, our club dislikes offering long contracts to players 30 & above. Everyone I mentioned in tier 1 is younger than him. If Herrera is reluctant to sign a 1/2 year extension with us, then surely there's a chance he will be gone.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

He’s comfortably better than Matic defensively, and less prone to the said blunders, which are a huge deal for a defensive player.
He’s obviously got a better engine too, that’s not debatable even.
Matic is a very good player with the ball, but he’s not very good without it.

I mean that’s very questionable...

Is it not more he just hasn’t been punished for his defensive lapses? He was great last night but just a game ago he was pretty bad and was getting a telling off from his team mates for letting men run and having no clue of who he was marking at corners I think generally Matic is still a much better defensive player as he does a lot of stopping danger before it happens but that sort of stuff goes unnoticed compared to someone getting back getting a boot in so on like McTominay did to great effect last night.

Anyway watched the Ajax game the other night and DeJong would have been perfect for us, he was brilliant could do the lot but alas he is off to Barca. So unfortunately I think we would be better to get two players in Ndombele and Neves and play them as a double pivot and let Pogba do what Pogba wants as there just isn’t one standout outthere for me who is a DM that I would just say yeah that is the man.


@sideshow_bob have to say I was watching the Madrid game and it did pop in to my head, I wonder if we could pull Casemiro out of there, it would be an absolute mission but you never know. As for Partay, can’t see it think we’d have more luck getting Saul currently since he is still being shifted all over the spot but again he isn’t a traditional DM as such but I think we might be better to get two players that compliment easch other rather than 1 as like I said above, I don’t really see an available standout that can do what the likes of Matic, Carrick, Casemiro and the likes can do.

 

[bond19821982]

McT deserves one season to see if he can take over. Hope we dont sign anyone this summer. If needed, we can go for one in January.

 

[Adnan]

20 years old Sander Berge at Genk should be checked out. Great DM. Huge talent, great with the ball, very quick and 6ft 4in tall. Good at dribbling and crosses. Can become box to box player if he developes his goal scoring ability.

He looks a very good prospect.

 

[Devil may care]

Yeah, like if you take the links to Bruno Fernandes, he could play infront of him, even with Pogba and it would work IMO.

Fair enough, I personally don't see him as a starter long term but if we did try this we'd need someone a lot better than Bruno Fernandes IMO, a proper plamaking #8, he's more of a final 3rd player which is Pogba's role.

 

[Ander herrera the warrior]

Herrera turns 30 this August and is out of a contract this summer. It's March & we are still yet to agree on a new deal with him.

Herrera is looking for 1 last payday. Meanwhile, our club dislikes offering long contracts to players 30 & above. Everyone I mentioned in tier 1 is younger than him. If Herrera is reluctant to sign a 1/2 year extension with us, then surely there's a chance he will be gone.

Hoping that Herrera will sign the contract soon. If he does, we would need a deep lying playmaker.

By the way, the name you mentioned in tier 1, Allan from Napoli is quite good at passing from deep too. Could be a good signing although he is close to 30 years old if I'm not mistaken.

 

[sideshow_bob]

Hoping that Herrera will sign the contract soon. If he does, we would need a deep lying playmaker.

By the way, the name you mentioned in tier 1, Allan from Napoli is quite good at passing from deep too. Could be a good signing although he is close to 30 years old if I'm not mistaken.

Allan is 2 years younger than Herrera. Earns about £1.71m per season. Herrera's current deal is at £3.6m per season.

 

[Sultan]

He's been a revelation since Ole took over and has a few years of game time left in him. There are other more pressing positions to fill prior to searching for his replacement.

 

[Ekeke]

Yeah, maybe I'm overstating Scott's performances, but I think there's a difference doing if it for United vs West ham. It just doesn't sit with me well that people just want a shiny new toy for DM when we have a player playing pretty well there.

Thats fair, its just not that what we have is always exactly as good as someone else. That doesnt mean we have to sign them, theres always the chance our own could develop faster in the long run.

But from what I've seen so far I'd say Rice has been a level above in the bigger games I've seen him in. An example would be scoring the winner in a London derby vs Arsenal and his performance against Liverpool.

I'd say while McTominay did well against Liverpool considering our situation and his experience, but it wasnt as good as Rice who made 8 tackles, 2 interceptions, 1 clearance, 0 blocked shots, 1 foul, 1 aerial, 26 passes at 73% accuracy.

McTominay was 0 tackles, 2 interceptions, 3 clearances, 2 blocked shots, 1 foul, 3 aerials, 31 passes at 83.9% accuracy. So obviously in some areas he did better, but in terms of winning the ball which is what you want your DM to do, Rice was better Vs. Liverpool than McTominay was.

 

[Infra-red]

We already have Herrera as a ball winner. I think we just lack a deep lying playmaker as both Matic and Herrera are not creative enough.

I generally agree. Certainly, our build up play has a lot of room for improvement and we could do with some better passers of the ball at CB and deep midfield.

 

[Ekeke]

Allan is 2 years younger than Herrera. Earns about £1.71m per season. Herrera's current deal is at £3.6m per season.

Alan's wage will obviously go up a lot when he signs a new contract or transfers

 

[jesperjaap]

Rice has a long contract and isn't all that good on the ball, for the price West Ham would want we could activate Rodri's buyout clause.

I disagree, he reminds me a bit of Keane on the ball in terms of not giving the ball away, perfect weight of pass, simple yet right option. Think that is the while thing about Rice that is quality, fro his age, his football brain, positioning, tackling, he is pretty much a no frills player, but does all of the simple things really really well.

Wouldnt be my first choice but he is going to be a very good player, for England and a top four side for years to come I think

 

[jesperjaap]

He's been a revelation since Ole took over and has a few years of game time left in him. There are other more pressing positions to fill prior to searching for his replacement.

I dont think he has been since Ole took over, think he has been (to me surprisingly) really good ever since he came to the club, one of the few players that performed under Mourinho. I do think he had a big dip in form towards the end of Mourinhos reign and maybe people because of that have forgotten how good he has been.

I would actually say with the ball since Ole took over he has been very sloppy a lot of the time, but defensively excellent

 

[sam147]

20 years old Sander Berge at Genk should be checked out. Great DM. Huge talent, great with the ball, very quick and 6ft 4in tall. Good at dribbling and crosses. Can become box to box player if he developes his goal scoring ability.

Perfect Matic replacement if thats what we want. The PL is tougher so I dont think he will be a box to box player. When required he can carry the ball and dribble but he would slot in perfectly to cover and learn from Matic. Rodri would still be my first choice to be honest. It also depends what Ole wants. He has come in and been very positive with the players. However, like all managers he must have a preference to what he wants from his DM. Rodri is someone that can do it all.

 

[Sultan]

I dont think he has been since Ole took over, think he has been (to me surprisingly) really good ever since he came to the club, one of the few players that performed under Mourinho. I do think he had a big dip in form towards the end of Mourinhos reign and maybe people because of that have forgotten how good he has been.

I would actually say with the ball since Ole took over he has been very sloppy a lot of the time, but defensively excellent

Definitely had a very good first season. He had a dip in form after the WC. I reckon his misplaced passes you mention is due to him playing more on the front foot and trying riskier forward passes. Under Jose where he mostly played safe.

 

[jesperjaap]

Definitely had a very good first season. He had a dip in form after the WC. I reckon his misplaced passes you mention is due to him playing more on the front foot and trying riskier forward passes. Under Jose where he mostly played safe.

Been a fair few games he has been sloppy on the ball quite a lot I think, but he has been so good positionally defensively it has been over looked. Its the likes of Shaw, Pogba, Rashford and Lindelof that individually have thrived under Ole in comparison I think.

 

[Ekeke]

I'm starting to think we don't need someone to replace Matic.

And not because Matic is amazing and can continue to play DM for 3 more years.

And not because I'm getting overexcited about McTominay doing well in difficult circumstances.

I just think Solskjaer has cleared the misty perception that our attacking play can't be good and that our defense is weak by making the players feel confident and enjoy their football again.

So when Ander is winning the ball so much in midfield and with Lindelof's improvement into a good CB this season, why do we need a DM in front of the CBs for the matches we're expected to have most of the ball and win?

We dont. Thats for tight games in the champions league and against our rivals in the league. That leaves the majority of premier league matches for us to play in a more attacking style and Matic/McTominay to get their games in the big matches.

I think Ander and Pogba as a duo would be fine now that we have our attacking threat back and will make teams worry about defending their own goal, which wasnt the case under Mourinho. Starting a DM in every game feels like a relic of our negative Mourinho era where he caused problems with his tactics instead of solving them.

 

[Devil may care]

I disagree, he reminds me a bit of Keane on the ball in terms of not giving the ball away, perfect weight of pass, simple yet right option. Think that is the while thing about Rice that is quality, fro his age, his football brain, positioning, tackling, he is pretty much a no frills player, but does all of the simple things really really well.

Wouldnt be my first choice but he is going to be a very good player, for England and a top four side for years to come I think

Fair enough, I've watched him a couple of times recently and I'm just not as impressed, especially not in comparison to a player like Rodri, I will say Rice's positional play is good for such a young player.

 

[RB7N]

I would be happy with Matic and McTominay as our DM options going into next season. Matic still has at least one more season in him, and McTominay has proven by now that he is more than capable of that role. In addition we have James Garner, who is highly rated by the club, so I’m not to worried if DM is not an area we strenghten in the summer.

 

[CherryBoy]

We already have Herrera as a ball winner. I think we just lack a deep lying playmaker as both Matic and Herrera are not creative enough.

THIS!

 

[Adnan]

What do people think of Sander Berge as a potential incoming?

I've never seen him play, but he's rated very highly and I think he's only 21. From the YouTube vids he looks a monster, who is physically strong and can break lines due to his dribbling. Very quick and mobile player who stands at 6ft4.

 

[Canagel]

We still need the replacement. I'm not letting a good run of form change my mind that we need upgrade at DM. What if Matic comes back even slower and fully declined next season? It will be a madness to not sign anyone in DM. McT has replaced the lack mobility with energy but if we got someone to dictate our football we should take it.

 

[Adnan]

We still need the replacement. I'm not letting a good run of form change my mind that we need upgrade at DM. What if Matic comes back even slower and fully declined next season? It will be a madness to not sign anyone in DM.

I agree, we need to upgrade for sure..

 

[Cloud7]

What do people think of Sander Berge as a potential incoming?

I've never seen him play, but he's rated very highly and I think he's only 21. From the YouTube vids he looks a monster, who is physically strong and can break lines due to his dribbling. Very quick and mobile player who stands at 6ft4.

Signed him as my Matic replacement in FIFA. Develops into a wonderful player. 10/10 would sign again.

 

[Cloud7]

If only there was a Carrick/Busquets/Xabi Alonso type player out there for us to sign. A combination of excellent defensive abilities with sublime passing. That would be perfect for our midfield. It’s a shame players like that are so hard to find.

 

[-Supreme-]

We still need the replacement. I'm not letting a good run of form change my mind that we need upgrade at DM. What if Matic comes back even slower and fully declined next season? It will be a madness to not sign anyone in DM. McT has replaced the lack mobility with energy but if we got someone to dictate our football we should take it.

I agree to an extent, but I think that depends on how much Ole believes in Mctominay, he could well be the perfect rotation / understudy to Matic over the next few years.

 

[Canagel]

I agree, we need to upgrade for sure..

If we didn't I wouldn't also be against restoring Herrera to DM.
I really want to see Herrera Fred Pogba midfield in action first to get a good idea.

 

[Devil may care]

One thing to keep in mind is the Matic replacement doesn't need to be exactly like him, as in it doesn't need to be a big unit CM, there are some very good smaller DM's around.