[jesperjaap]

No, because you called him an average centre back. He and Shaw have been the main players in what has been the best defense in the league since Ole took over. Yet you wait for his first poor performance in about 5 months to slate him? Why haven't you pointed out his averageness before? Because you're talking total tripe, as a result, embarrassing yourself.

Yes, I think he is an average centre back. Stated when we were linked with him didnt want us to sign him, wasnt good enough for the problems we had at centre back in my opinion, didnt want us to sign Lukaku or Felliani either. I made a post in the summer regarding transfers and he was on the list of outs, I also wanted Luke Shaw to stay in the same post. Its not just managerial faults the reason why we have struggled the last few years, the recruitment generally has been not what it should have been.

You are totally entitled to your opinion as I am mine. However, if your'e going to make statements about embarrassing ones self, at least get your facts right....otherwise ironically, it is a bit embarrassing

 

[Ekeke]

No, because you called him an average centre back. He and Shaw have been the main players in what has been the best defense in the league since Ole took over. Yet you wait for his first poor performance in about 5 months to slate him? Why haven't you pointed out his averageness before? Because you're talking total tripe, as a result, embarrassing yourself.

Making out that Smalling hasnt also been one of those main players, you're also embarrassing yourself

 

[Raven]

Making out that Smalling hasnt also been one of those main players, you're also embarrassing yourself

I never made that out, whatsoever. Smalling has been brilliant since he came back from injury.

 

[Raven]

Yes, I think he is an average centre back. Stated when we were linked with him didnt want us to sign him, wasnt good enough for the problems we had at centre back in my opinion, didnt want us to sign Lukaku or Felliani either. I made a post in the summer regarding transfers and he was on the list of outs, I also wanted Luke Shaw to stay in the same post. Its not just managerial faults the reason why we have struggled the last few years, the recruitment generally has been not what it should have been.

You are totally entitled to your opinion as I am mine. However, if your'e going to make statements about embarrassing ones self, at least get your facts right....otherwise ironically, it is a bit embarrassing

Let's be real, the guy has been excellent since the Juve game. The first time he's struggled, since the, is against Arsenal on Sunday, so all evidence points to Lindelof being a very good CB.

 

[11101]

Making out that Smalling hasnt also been one of those main players, you're also embarrassing yourself

 

[A-man]

Let's be real, the guy has been excellent since the Juve game. The first time he's struggled, since the, is against Arsenal on Sunday, so all evidence points to Lindelof being a very good CB.

No point in trying to draw conclusions after one not so good match, but him and a few other players have been carrying a heavy load during this season with all the injuries. That combined with the PSG match could maybe be the reason. Think he looked less energetic than normal, and maybe the poor timing was just lack of concentration. Same with DDG.

 

[simmee]

Making out that Smalling hasnt also been one of those main players, you're also embarrassing yourself

Smalling has played 5 games in the league under Ole. In two of those games the opposition scored two goals. Can't really say that he has been a main player for our defense in the league under Ole (at this time).

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Let's be real, the guy has been excellent since the Juve game. The first time he's struggled, since the, is against Arsenal on Sunday, so all evidence points to Lindelof being a very good CB.

I agree. I can see why people are concerned with our defensive situation but I think many people have been much more spooked by Jones's new contract than is necessary. That new deal doesn't rule out a new CB arriving in the next couple of seasons as far as I'm concerned, but in any case talk of having to rebuild the back four from scratch is well over the top when we have Shaw, Lindelof, Smalling and Dalot at the club, all of whom could be playing key roles in our defence in the years ahead.

On topic Lindelof was particularly poor against Arsenal, struggling as he did against the power and fluidity of their pair of strikers, but that in no way entitles fans to start caning him again as if the last few months of quality play haven't happened.

 

[Ekeke]

I never made that out, whatsoever. Smalling has been brilliant since he came back from injury.

You listed 2 main players. He wasnt on the list

 

[Raven]

You listed 2 main players. He wasnt on the list

Yeah, because Shaw and Lindelof have been there the whole time. Smalling hasn't, because of his injury. Pretty simple really.

 

[limerickcitykid]

He was dreadful. Back to his old self where he immediately shits his pants the second a ball leaves the floor. Lacazette at 5'9 was jumping over him and all around man handling him.

I don't know many CBs worse in the air than him, Bailly being one of them. Fortunately, apart from being downright terrible in the air Lindelof isn't also a complete idiot like Bailly.

Having a good season though. But at the end of the day he is a CB who can't win a header to save his life and when push comes to shove is a monumental pussy.

 

[A-man]

He was dreadful. Back to his old self where he immediately shits his pants the second a ball leaves the floor. Lacazette at 5'9 was jumping over him and all around man handling him.

I don't know many CBs worse in the air than him, Bailly being one of them. Fortunately, apart from being downright terrible in the air Lindelof isn't also a complete idiot like Bailly.

Having a good season though. But at the end of the day he is a CB who can't win a header to save his life and when push comes to shove is a monumental pussy.

Downright terrible in the air? Won 7 aerials and lost zero according to the match stats. Cant be completely hopeless in the air.

 

[Ander herrera the warrior]

Downright terrible in the air? Won 7 aerials and lost zero according to the match stats. Cant be completely hopeless in the air.

Lost zero aerials? There was one where the ball was literally just above his head and he didn't even try heading it and it went straight to Lacazette.

 

[BlueHaze]

He's been here for almost 2 years now and I'm still not sure what to think of him. He has done much better since the arrival of Ole but still I don't have 100% confidence in him. Everytime he plays I feel like he is a ticking bomb in the sense that he'll do a blunder at any minute. He will need to do more to convince me that he is going to be a regular starter here.

 

[A-man]

Lost zero aerials? There was one where the ball was literally just above his head and he didn't even try heading it and it went straight to Lacazette.

I know, but that does not count as lost aerial. Not saying stats reflect everything, but they clearly don’t support that he would be one of the worst CBs in the air. His aerial stats are better than many well known CBs like David Luiz, Koscielny, Laporte, Vertongen, Alderweireld...

 

[MikeKing]

He's been here for almost 2 years now and I'm still not sure what to think of him. He has done much better since the arrival of Ole but still I don't have 100% confidence in him. Everytime he plays I feel like he is a ticking bomb in the sense that he'll do a blunder at any minute. He will need to do more to convince me that he is going to be a regular starter here.

Of course he has to. If we could have counted on Bailly, Jones and Rojo I wouldn't be too afraid to go into in next season with Lindelof and Smalling as our main CB's but we do need to shuffle around at CB because our back ups isn't good or available. We might as well just try for a top left-sided CB to partner Smalling, and let Lindelof play himself into the team from there. He has proven himself better than Bailly at least, which I think a lot of people thought was never going to happen.

 

[Full bodied red]

He's been here for almost 2 years now and I'm still not sure what to think of him. He has done much better since the arrival of Ole but still I don't have 100% confidence in him. Everytime he plays I feel like he is a ticking bomb in the sense that he'll do a blunder at any minute. He will need to do more to convince me that he is going to be a regular starter here.

Me too.

But its the age old problem of having spent 6 years watching Rio and Nemanja V together and expecting the same qaulities and reliability.

 

[A-man]

Of course he has to. If we could have counted on Bailly, Jones and Rojo I wouldn't be too afraid to go into in next season with Lindelof and Smalling as our main CB's but we do need to shuffle around at CB because our back ups isn't good or available. We might as well just try for a top left-sided CB to partner Smalling, and let Lindelof play himself into the team from there. He has proven himself better than Bailly at least, which I think a lot of people thought was never going to happen.

He has also been better than Smalling this season imo. I think the Smalling/ Lindelof pair is definitely good enough but as you say, there is a problem of one of them or both are injured. During Smalling’s injury period Jones and also Bailly did well, but I am not fully confident in that. However other positions are much more in need for new players.

I know it is popular to say that ball handling skills are overrated for a CB, but a CB long pass assisted the critical first goal for Liverpool yesterday. When you’re up against the best, it’s not just luxury any more but necessary.

 

[MadDogg]

He has also been better than Smalling this season imo.

I'd have them about even. Smalling was better earlier in the season. Lindelof then had three matches where he was better (around the time of the first Juve game), before Smalling took over again. Lindelof continued improving and they were fairly even by the time Smalling got injured. Obviously Lindelof then had a very good period, but Smalling has now been better in the last few matches again.

 

[MadMike]

I'm happy with him this season. The two key things are:
a) He's still young for a CB, only 24
b) He's shown big signs of improvement from last year.

He's not the finished article yet, no CB is at 24, and so long as he keeps gradually improving over the next few years we've got a real good player on our hands. Definitely worth having in the squad. His place here is safe while we have Jones, Rojo and Bailly here.

Is he good enough to be a starting CB for a title chasing team? I guess jury's still out on this. But there's very positive signs.

 

[cathari]

Is he good enough to be a starting CB for a title chasing team? I guess jury's still out on this. But there's very positive signs.

Perhaps.

 

[MadMike]

Perhaps.

That's 1/3 of a season though. Even Rojo and Bailly looked good for that long in their respective good periods. There's still some signs with Lindelof that you can "get to him", make him panic and force him to make consecutive mistakes in a game. Last season he was a very panicky defender and while he improved a lot since then, against Arsenal on Sunday some of those worries resurfaced.

Every defender will make mistakes, don't get me wrong, it just feels that when Victor makes a couple he is in danger of losing his head a bit. Whereas a more self-assured defender will put a lid on it and keep it under control. Hopefully he'll mature to be that guy.

 

[cathari]

That's 1/3 of a season though. Even Rojo and Bailly looked good for that long in their respective good periods. There's still some signs with Lindelof that you can "get to him", make him panic and force him to make consecutive mistakes in a game. Last season he was a very panicky defender and while he improved a lot since then, against Arsenal on Sunday some of those worries resurfaced.

Every defender will make mistakes, don't get me wrong, it just feels that when Victor makes a couple he is in danger of losing his head a bit. Whereas a more self-assured defender will put a lid on it and keep it under control. Hopefully he'll mature to be that guy.

Well, you asked for it

I agree that he has at times looked out of his depth this season, but very, very rarely. He is the one I look to when we have played him with either or all of Young, Dalot, Bailly and Jones, and I'd expect some of his poorer decisions this campaign is due to this season's multiple partnerships in the back, and an at times frail Ashley Young.

So, to me, he has earned his place as starting centre-half for next season, without a doubt. But I guess we differ a bit in just how good we see him, or you like to see it out a bit more than I do

 

[A-man]

I'd have them about even. Smalling was better earlier in the season. Lindelof then had three matches where he was better (around the time of the first Juve game), before Smalling took over again. Lindelof continued improving and they were fairly even by the time Smalling got injured. Obviously Lindelof then had a very good period, but Smalling has now been better in the last few matches again.

Probably a matter of taste also, but we seem to agree that during this season Smalling and Lindelof have performed a level above the other CBs.

Smalling rarely makes big costly mistakes. Yes he grabs shirts a little too much maybe, but as long as it doesn’t cost penalties every second match he is probably saving goals by doing it. And Lindelof is a very clean player. No last ditch tackles, almost never close to a yellow card and this season he has had few costly mistakes. I think that should be kept in mind for those who say they are always nervous when he plays: he has to my best knowledge never cost a penalty.

This is you can’t say about Jones or Bailly. Would not be a nice situation if both Lindelof and Smalling got injured at the same time.

 

[Ramshock]

Apperently is shit again and should be replaced by Toby!

 

[RussellWilson]

Apperently is shit again and should be replaced by Toby!

3 Months of good football and suddenly he's better than one of the best CBs in the league for 4 seasons. Some fans are so deluded.

 

[MadDogg]

Probably a matter of taste also, but we seem to agree that during this season Smalling and Lindelof have performed a level above the other CBs.

Smalling rarely makes big costly mistakes. Yes he grabs shirts a little too much maybe, but as long as it doesn’t cost penalties every second match he is probably saving goals by doing it. And Lindelof is a very clean player. No last ditch tackles, almost never close to a yellow card and this season he has had few costly mistakes. I think that should be kept in mind for those who say they are always nervous when he plays: he has to my best knowledge never cost a penalty.

This is you can’t say about Jones or Bailly. Would not be a nice situation if both Lindelof and Smalling got injured at the same time.

Oh absolutely. Once Lindelof started improving this season it was always obvious that as long as we can keep the two of them fit we'd be ok.

Jones has actually been surprisingly good for most of the games that he's played for the last 18 months, but when he's not good he tends to be an absolute disaster. And the less said about Bailly in the last two seasons the better.

 

[MikeKing]

He has also been better than Smalling this season imo. I think the Smalling/ Lindelof pair is definitely good enough but as you say, there is a problem of one of them or both are injured. During Smalling’s injury period Jones and also Bailly did well, but I am not fully confident in that. However other positions are much more in need for new players.

I know it is popular to say that ball handling skills are overrated for a CB, but a CB long pass assisted the critical first goal for Liverpool yesterday. When you’re up against the best, it’s not just luxury any more but necessary.

Other positions are needed but Rojo probably hasn't played a game in about two years or something crazy and Jones is in his injury loop. I don't care if they are on contracts we should look to sell them immediately and get in a left sided CB. I'll rather be a bit short in numbers next season if we could get in a player like Koulibaly, Umtiti, De Ligt, Varane etc. To partner Lindelof and Smalling. Defence is not a problem right now, but next season it might be.

On your second point. Smalling assisted a goal against Ajax in the EL final, and Ramos often scores from headers in big games. It is not necessarily just one route to effect the game for a CB. I don't even think it is popular to say skills on the ball is overrated for a CB, in fact it tends to be the talk of the town if a defender is good on the ball.

 

[A-man]

Other positions are needed but Rojo probably hasn't played a game in about two years or something crazy and Jones is in his injury loop. I don't care if they are on contracts we should look to sell them immediately and get in a left sided CB. I'll rather be a bit short in numbers next season if we could get in a player like Koulibaly, Umtiti, De Ligt, Varane etc. To partner Lindelof and Smalling. Defence is not a problem right now, but next season it might be.

On your second point. Smalling assisted a goal against Ajax in the EL final, and Ramos often scores from headers in big games. It is not necessarily just one route to effect the game for a CB. I don't even think it is popular to say skills on the ball is overrated for a CB, in fact it tends to be the talk of the town if a defender is good on the ball.

For sure there are many ways to contribute to the attacking force of a team. All I’m saying is that the pass we could see yesterday from van Dijk created a chance out of nothing, and then Mané did some amazing things and scored. That is valuable at top level. But of course it can not come at the expense of good defence skills.

I think it interesting that Ole immediately saw Lindelof as someone with good aerial abilities. Otherwise he wouldn’t have moved him up for every corner. And he has created both chances and goals.

 

[A-man]

Oh absolutely. Once Lindelof started improving this season it was always obvious that as long as we can keep the two of them fit we'd be ok.

Jones has actually been surprisingly good for most of the games that he's played for the last 18 months, but when he's not good he tends to be an absolute disaster. And the less said about Bailly in the last two seasons the better.

Fully agree, Jones has been really good lately and seems to work well with Lindelof.

 

[MikeKing]

For sure there are many ways to contribute to the attacking force of a team. All I’m saying is that the pass we could see yesterday from van Dijk created a chance out of nothing, and then Mané did some amazing things and scored. That is valuable at top level. But of course it can not come at the expense of good defence skills.

I think it interesting that Ole immediately saw Lindelof as someone with good aerial abilities. Otherwise he wouldn’t have moved him up for every corner. And he has created both chances and goals.

It was a great improvised pass displaying good vision and accuracy. Hopefully one day we'll see Lindelof contribute in that way too, maybe he has the ability to do so. So he has been moved up on corners a lot lately? Feel like I've only seen that only a few times this season, but when you mention it. If he could add that to his game that would be very welcome but I don't expect that from him, at least not yet.

 

[A-man]

It was a great improvised pass displaying good vision and accuracy. Hopefully one day we'll see Lindelof contribute in that way too, maybe he has the ability to do so. So he has been moved up on corners a lot lately? Feel like I've only seen that only a few times this season, but when you mention it. If he could add that to his game that would be very welcome but I don't expect that from him, at least not yet.

Yes he is often moved up for corners and has had a few nice chances when he has gone for the first post. One of them was saved by the goalie and Matic scored on the rebound. Look at 00:35

 

[Isotope]

Smalling has played 5 games in the league under Ole. In two of those games the opposition scored two goals. Can't really say that he has been a main player for our defense in the league under Ole (at this time).

If you watched those two games, you'd find that even Baresi couldn't prevent them. Two long ranges (mostly DDG fcuked ups), one penalty, and one free-kick.

But yeh. Stats.

 

[simmee]

If you watched those two games, you'd find that even Baresi couldn't prevent them. Two long ranges (mostly DDG fcuked ups), one penalty, and one free-kick.

But yeh. Stats.

I’ve watched all our games and I’m not blaming Smalling for the goals. But you can hardly call it embarrassing to not include Smalling as a main defensive player in the league under Ole if those are the only games he has played.

But yeh. Brains.

 

[Raven]

It was a great improvised pass displaying good vision and accuracy. Hopefully one day we'll see Lindelof contribute in that way too, maybe he has the ability to do so. So he has been moved up on corners a lot lately? Feel like I've only seen that only a few times this season, but when you mention it. If he could add that to his game that would be very welcome but I don't expect that from him, at least not yet.

He does have the ability to do so? We've seen him hit 70 yard passes to our strikers with pinpoint accuracy. I'm really getting tired of this collective amnesia.

Edit:
Have a look at 7:58.

 

[Litch]

Like him a lot. Still a kid in CB terms at 24 and will be the perfect partner for the more X factor type of CB to pair him with.

 

[MikeKing]

He does have the ability to do so? We've seen him hit 70 yard passes to our strikers with pinpoint accuracy. I'm really getting tired of this collective amnesia.

Edit:
Have a look at 7:58.

He does have the ability to have a few long passes hit its target with little pressure on him, but so has Smalling. I could find clips of similar passes from him too. Thing is he has to do it more often and in more difficult situations as well. I'm sure there is levels to it and my post was about him eventually contributing in a way similar to the impact we've seen from Van Djik the other day.

 

[Isotope]

I’ve watched all our games and I’m not blaming Smalling for the goals. But you can hardly call it embarrassing to not include Smalling as a main defensive player in the league under Ole if those are the only games he has played.

But yeh. Brains.

You know that he's not responsible for those goals in two games, but you mentioned it as his shortcoming. Now you said you're not blaming Smalling.

DDG has more brainfart for those goals than any of these 2 CB, but you didn't mention him instead. But yeh, brainfart.

 

[simmee]

You know that he's not responsible for those goals in two games, but you mentioned it as his shortcoming. Now you said you're not blaming Smalling.

DDG has more brainfart for those goals than any of these 2 CB, but you didn't mention him instead. But yeh, brainfart.

I mentioned the amount of games he's played under Ole and the amount of goals we've conceded in those games as a response to why it's not embarrassing to leave Smalling out as a main player for our defensive record in the league under Ole. But yeh, thick and pointless discussion.

 

[Isotope]

I mentioned the amount of games he's played under Ole and the amount of goals we've conceded in those games as a response to why it's not embarrassing to leave Smalling out as a main player for our defensive record in the league under Ole. But yeh, thick and pointless discussion.

Amen, bro. Hope for a win tomorrow, with Lindelof shows his inner Baresi again.