The need for creativity in our squad
- Thread starter Aloysius's Back 3
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
We need an upgrade on Lingard. Whoever plays in that right wing/number 10 role is more often than not, not good enough.
Just curious, name their players (Liverpool & Spurs) that you dare to swap + give them some cash. If our players aren’t better or on par surely their players worth more.
And name Chelsea & arsenal players that you would do straight swap.
we need a mobile, tenacious and good on the ball DM. Matic doesn't cover the ground nor is his passing range consistent enough to set our tempo and his distribution is too slow. if we want to play 4-3-3 all of the midfielders must be good on the ball and capable of picking passes.. Then DM with added responsibility of protecting back 4, number 10 goal threat, box to box all round etc. I really think a player like Fred can be useful for us next to a DM because his all round game is solid plus two footed passing adds another element to our distribution.
McT can cover the ground too and began to show a bit more passing but we need closer to the finished article. that and a ball playing CB. if you look at the PL passing charts City and Liverpool have Laporte and VVD both 2nd and 3rd in the passing charts and even chelsea has rudiger/luiz. a bit lower you find Fernandinho. our first player on the list is Pogba at 13. in between 1 and 13 theres a bunch of city, liverpool and Chelsea players. this I think shows the picture of our deficiency.
a lot of supporters seems to think eriksen is the answer but we don't necessarily need a player like Eriksen - who's the eriksen equivalent at Juve, Barca, PSG? none. it's only really city that plays with two number 10's in the world of football so where do these other top teams get creativity from without two number 10's? We just need comfortable players on the ball throughout our spine and speed in the wide areas. rebuild must begin with CB, DM followed by false 9 and RW.
Last edited:
We do need some creativity. There are three ways to create chances in open play, and we are pretty average in all of them for one reason or the other.1. Centrally it requires having players in centre or attacking midfield with the ability to create chances, we have pogba, but once we take him out of the equation, matic cannot do this, nor herrera, in addition, none of the strikers we have are good at creating chances for others ( which is normal as only few strikers like suarez benzema or drogba can do this), so that leaves us limited in that regard. 2. We do not have the players to create on the wings as we used to in the utd way. Martial is ok, but is not reliable enough yet on a week to week basis, and is not generally a chance creator, more of a scorer. In addition, we have nothing from the right wing position. in the past we had wing combinations like beckham and giggs, ronaldo and nani, even nani and valencia, but at the moment, we are lacking in the one position utd have always provided creativity from, the flanks. 3. our creativity from overlaps are not great either, as our full backs are young, and are not yet the best decision makers. Madrid used marcelo and carvajal to create chances in their run, we do not have this ability yet.
My suggestion would be to watch how dalot and shaw develop without too much alteration, and focus on attacking on the wings and centrally be adding new players to the squad. We need another midfielder who can make long passes and support pogba in providing through balls to the attack from deep. A defensive midfielder like this would open up avenues in the middle like we used to when scholes and carrick played together. Our primary focus should be on the flanks, we need creativity there. I would keep developing Martial, but sign a creative right winger to provide a threat on that flank and stretch our game. Neves and someone like insigne or suso would help greatly. Of course, we need depth at rightback, and a new centre back as well, but i feel these two positions (DM and RW) are the key tools needed to improve our creativity and push us up to the level we are meant to be at.
My suggestion would be to watch how dalot and shaw develop without too much alteration, and focus on attacking on the wings and centrally be adding new players to the squad. We need another midfielder who can make long passes and support pogba in providing through balls to the attack from deep. A defensive midfielder like this would open up avenues in the middle like we used to when scholes and carrick played together. Our primary focus should be on the flanks, we need creativity there. I would keep developing Martial, but sign a creative right winger to provide a threat on that flank and stretch our game. Neves and someone like insigne or suso would help greatly. Of course, we need depth at rightback, and a new centre back as well, but i feel these two positions (DM and RW) are the key tools needed to improve our creativity and push us up to the level we are meant to be at.
We desperately need to improve on the ball. Which is why I find is strange when some people are happy for us to sign box to box/all round midfielders. We need a playmaking CM (and a playmaker in attack even if not this summer). We are incredibly reliant on midfielders who don't have that class on the ball or forwards who are, really, forwards, and hence inconsist in their buildup play. The glue that binds the football together is weak.
Ball playing CB (De Ligt. If not, who?)
RB who can really play (No clue)
Playmaking CM (Neves? Who else?)
RW who is gifted on the ball (Sancho!)
Great teams open their opponents up by circulating the ball seemlessly. I remember under Fergie when we were chasing the game at OT, we would absolutely batter teams. Wed pass it around in the centre with Scholes being the orchestrator and create a complete overload for there to be a huge vaccum of space for the fullback to run into empty space and 5 attackers in place for the delivery.
This team can hit teams on the counter and create great moments here and there but the cohesion/collective quality/passing accuracy /ability in tight spaces must improve - in part though signings and in part through coaching. But that ability to rip teams open needs to be instilled. It's all either very one two bang, or pass pass pass to nowhere. Liverpool and City on the other hand open teams up through genuinely good football rather than relying on individual class or that one great counter attack.
Ball playing CB (De Ligt. If not, who?)
RB who can really play (No clue)
Playmaking CM (Neves? Who else?)
RW who is gifted on the ball (Sancho!)
Great teams open their opponents up by circulating the ball seemlessly. I remember under Fergie when we were chasing the game at OT, we would absolutely batter teams. Wed pass it around in the centre with Scholes being the orchestrator and create a complete overload for there to be a huge vaccum of space for the fullback to run into empty space and 5 attackers in place for the delivery.
This team can hit teams on the counter and create great moments here and there but the cohesion/collective quality/passing accuracy /ability in tight spaces must improve - in part though signings and in part through coaching. But that ability to rip teams open needs to be instilled. It's all either very one two bang, or pass pass pass to nowhere. Liverpool and City on the other hand open teams up through genuinely good football rather than relying on individual class or that one great counter attack.
Thiago
Lingard is a good squad player, but gets find out against teams which we have to break down. I also noticed Rashford, Martial and Pogba and very individual players. There combination play is poor and they always hang onto the ball too long and hardly play the simple ball.
If you look at Liverpool and City, there forwards interchange and combination play is simple but effective. At the moment our game is suited to play in the counter and defend deep. The performance against Chelsea in the Cup was the ideal performance. I think we will do better against Barcalona than people expect because they will play into our hands, but their quality of players maybe the difference.
I thought Herrera was too safe with his passing. I like him, but in days like this, you get reminded of his limitations. Surely Ole would allow him to be more expansive in his passing?
I am sure he was passive because of the confusing movements of the attacking players. Need to get rid of those attackers to get Manutd back to standard.
We have a dead right flank, one creator in the middle (none in defence and one in midfield) and not top end number 10. Sort that out and we'll be fine
Last edited:
I think we've a bit to much players with huge quality but lack of game intelligence.
Expecially in the offensive Part. Pogba being the prime example of that...close followed by Martial and Rashford (these two are young and there is hope they will improve). Then we've the opposite with players like Lukaku, Lingard, Mata who've a good amount of game intelligence, but are lacking a bit of quality to be considered world class.
We can do with someone to organize and orchestrate things, a real midfield general which allows Pogba to be the creator and do the fancy stuff. And obviously a RW. These are the two key parts we have to invest imo.
Expecially in the offensive Part. Pogba being the prime example of that...close followed by Martial and Rashford (these two are young and there is hope they will improve). Then we've the opposite with players like Lukaku, Lingard, Mata who've a good amount of game intelligence, but are lacking a bit of quality to be considered world class.
We can do with someone to organize and orchestrate things, a real midfield general which allows Pogba to be the creator and do the fancy stuff. And obviously a RW. These are the two key parts we have to invest imo.
4 of our last 10 we’ve failed to score. Solskjaer is doing great with what we have but it’s obvious we need more. We rely massively on the potential of rashford and martial but both blow extremely hot and cold. A midfielder who can dictate games and an attacking player of real quality would change us entirely. Eg Verratti and Eriksen.just as examples
I like this. Matic is too statue like for our aspirations, hopefully by next season he'll only come off the bench
We need a right forward/winger that can dribble, be creative and score goals, ironically, in the mould of a young Alexis Sanchez. Plus we need a carrick type midfield orchestrator that will help quicken the passing and set the tempo in games like yesterday. Once we have that, we should carry more of a goal threat when facing organized sides that sit back and let us have the ball. Hopefully, Rashford and Martial become more consistent as they enter their prime.
More off the ball running , direct passing into space and overlapping runs. Make yourself available for that through ball and harder to defend. Stop playing ball to feet and expect them to beat the opposition one on one every time. You are not Messi.
Look at Wolves, their players , especially the full backs , run into space every time they break. Shaw and Martial could not contain their right back. Ruben Neves ( what a player ! ) has a field day firing those 40y passes into space.
Look at Wolves, their players , especially the full backs , run into space every time they break. Shaw and Martial could not contain their right back. Ruben Neves ( what a player ! ) has a field day firing those 40y passes into space.
Last edited:
Mobility is hardly the issue here. We need someone in the Carrick mold as a DM who can pull the strings. DM is a position where being mobile is the least important. Matic's problem is his offensive game. I don't think Herrera will solve anything there.
Last night's game would have been perfect for a young Carrick at his peak.
For how many years have we said this and how many creative players have we signed to fix it? Herrera, Mata, Di Maria, Pogba, Sanchez
I don't think our style requires very creative players. What we desperately need is a proper right Winger. Last night Lingard didn't provide us the width. Did we even use AM during Fergie era?
I don't think our style requires very creative players. What we desperately need is a proper right Winger. Last night Lingard didn't provide us the width. Did we even use AM during Fergie era?
Really dont understand why we dont play with width. Some of best teams play by stretching teams and attacking down the sides. Hope Ole will work on this in the summer and recruit an out and out winger on our right side that can beat a player and is direct. Last night v Wolves we were crying out for a right winger who is direct. Everything went down out left we need to mix it up. Too slow in moving ball we are in midfield. Matic slows down play to much when were in possession.
This lack of creativity and ball retention is why Rabiot would actually be a good signing, along with Bruno Fernandez if it's true we're after him. If Rabiot's head is right, he's proven quality and could change the pace of our play. Fernandez a big upgrade in Herrera (as CM) and Lingard/Mata. Herrera can move into DM and we'd be a lot better on the ball. Add the RW the side is screaming for and it'll be a whole different side, able to switch between 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 diamond with good creativity, ball retention and attacking threat. And please someone in that coaching team teach Martial to move, rather than always wait for the ball to move first...
This is definitely a knee jerk.
I don’t dissagree but mods should put a ban of new threads immediately after games.
I don’t dissagree but mods should put a ban of new threads immediately after games.
We are scoring a shed load of goals though, 3 goals in each of the three games before Arsenal and even then we had the chances to continue that streak.
We simply need Lukaku in the side when Rashford is off form. For all of Rashford traits, it's Rom who can play the slide rule pass, picking someone out on the far post.
We'll get that back but there's far too many instances of our attack being unable to fully function without a number 9 who is at the top of his game. We just can't overcome that or are able to carry him and now Pogba form has lowered a bit certain fans are putting two and two together to get three.
There's far too many broad overviews being put forward on this forum, this larger picture syndrome thats seeped it's way in.
We simply need Lukaku in the side when Rashford is off form. For all of Rashford traits, it's Rom who can play the slide rule pass, picking someone out on the far post.
We'll get that back but there's far too many instances of our attack being unable to fully function without a number 9 who is at the top of his game. We just can't overcome that or are able to carry him and now Pogba form has lowered a bit certain fans are putting two and two together to get three.
There's far too many broad overviews being put forward on this forum, this larger picture syndrome thats seeped it's way in.
Never talked about mobility. Just mean that our game is just too slow and Matic can take several extra touches instead of playing it forward and quickly.
That's for attacking, having Herrera there and another one there might improve defensive transitions.
For better understandingjust check out Matic's casual stroll for Wolves' 2nd goal last night. It was shocking
My two cents are that ole has done incredibly well to mask the quality and balance in the squad.
We are not at the level but we are not too far away either.
We desperately need a right winger who can take on his man with pace- we can mix the play up with martial on the left and x on the right and pogba in the centre. Then we need a CM who can play between the lines and stretch play with long balls to the wing.
Having watched Neves yesterday, I honestly think he would be tailor made for United. He would create the width with his quick creative passing. Teams that’s attacked us would be in constant danger themselves and we wouldn’t be reliant on pogba.
Dalot is a question mark, but would perhaps become less of one if we had a decent right sided forward who he could play off. I think it would be hard for any right back right now to make a success of that side.
Neves and a proper right sided forward - I don’t watch enough German footy but People keep talking Sancho... I think that would be enough to take is to a title challenge. Not just were we are thinking about top 4 only anyway.
We are not at the level but we are not too far away either.
We desperately need a right winger who can take on his man with pace- we can mix the play up with martial on the left and x on the right and pogba in the centre. Then we need a CM who can play between the lines and stretch play with long balls to the wing.
Having watched Neves yesterday, I honestly think he would be tailor made for United. He would create the width with his quick creative passing. Teams that’s attacked us would be in constant danger themselves and we wouldn’t be reliant on pogba.
Dalot is a question mark, but would perhaps become less of one if we had a decent right sided forward who he could play off. I think it would be hard for any right back right now to make a success of that side.
Neves and a proper right sided forward - I don’t watch enough German footy but People keep talking Sancho... I think that would be enough to take is to a title challenge. Not just were we are thinking about top 4 only anyway.
Potential signings and existing issues aside, we are lacking certain elements in our play and tactics without which we cannot be/challenge a top tier team.
1. Ball circulation and crisp passing of the ball. Knowing when to pass, when to hold the ball is so important, and when the pass is made, it SHOULD reach it's target.
2. Ability to set or change tempo. We are sorely lacking in this aspect. We lack necessary players to do it properly.
3. Pressing and countering press intelligently.
4. Movement off the ball. We are slowly reverting to Mourinho style where the team is largely stagnant and lacks the knowledge and intelligence to make runs to drag players out of position.
Ole has done great things this season, pulling off some miracles, but technically and tactically, we do not ready to face the top tier teams. Also, the red tinted glasses need to come off, and we need proper back up options/depth who are there because they deserve it, not just because they are academy kids who may/may not fulfill thei potential.
1. Ball circulation and crisp passing of the ball. Knowing when to pass, when to hold the ball is so important, and when the pass is made, it SHOULD reach it's target.
2. Ability to set or change tempo. We are sorely lacking in this aspect. We lack necessary players to do it properly.
3. Pressing and countering press intelligently.
4. Movement off the ball. We are slowly reverting to Mourinho style where the team is largely stagnant and lacks the knowledge and intelligence to make runs to drag players out of position.
Ole has done great things this season, pulling off some miracles, but technically and tactically, we do not ready to face the top tier teams. Also, the red tinted glasses need to come off, and we need proper back up options/depth who are there because they deserve it, not just because they are academy kids who may/may not fulfill thei potential.
I don't know if it's just me, but it felt like the first few games under Ole we played really fast even if it didn't come off. Recently we've been slow and don't take as many risks. We don't press as much as we did either.
Creativity is one thing. But then you also look at some of the great sides of past and present and they have a distinct, go-to plan of attack. Before we even get to creativity we need the basics right. We're trying to be a classic United side without classic United players. We need to get proper wingers and we can go back to one such default attack. We do that, then a good team like Wolves has more to do than just snuff out Pogba or manage forwards or defenders that aren't great wingers. It's an issue we've had for a while.
Who do Liverpool ,Arsenal and Chelsea has in midfield? The notion that we need a creative outlet in midfield is nonsense. What we need is better players in certain areas of the team
Like a good right winger , a good FB who can defend and attack etc.
Like a good right winger , a good FB who can defend and attack etc.
Matic was just leaving their penalty box after a corner when the ball was already coming close to our goal. No player would have caught up with that from that position.
Definitely.
It ain't matter of catching up but showing a little effort
I'm not bothered to do that because it's been done to death. It's too subjective and pointless.
I know how this goes. Someone is inevitably going to come in and ask me if I really think we have better than Henderson and Milner. Apparently these two are garbage despite making up most of the midfield in a title challenging team. So the answer is yes, I would take those two ahead of Herrera and Matic. And obviously Salah and Mane are miles better than Rashford and Martial.
As a whole, imo our team belongs in a top four fight, nothing more.
We lack a deep lying playmaker in my opinion. Somebody who can pull the strings in midfield and control the tempo of a game.
You could fault him for many things but that sequence is not that significant imo. Herrera has never been played in that position, there's probably a reason for it.
I agree. Someone like Veratti would be perfect.
DM ? He has, multiple times even. For both Bilbao and United
I meant for United. When did he do that?
Even if he did, he has never consistently been playing there.
Pogba aside, I'd only really call Mata a creative player and he wouldn't get into a top side anywhere around Europe imo. We need someone.
Spot on! Been saying it for ages, we have no magician, who can do a piece of solo excellence to create or score a goal at any minute of the game, like a cantona, scholes, etc .
All the teams fairing better than us have one or two like this in their team, liverpool have mane, salah the arabian knights have several, silva, aguerro, bernardo, chelsea have hazard, spurs have kane, ericsson, and i can already feel people reading this will think im being a debbie downer and not mentioning rashford, pogba, martial , bul non of our lot do it week in week out, like the other aforementioned players.
Really thought we had the problem solved when we got sanchez, but it turns out the one we have is not the one arsenal had.
Until we get a van persie, a rooney or players of their ilk we will never get back to the top, its soul destroying to watch
