Moise Kean | Everton player

JuveGER

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Think the wording was poor from Bonucci and Allegri. I'd like to think that what they were trying to say is try not to antagonise a crowd full of cnuts otherwise the racist abuse might only get worse.
I think it's wrong to group Bonucci and Allegri together. Bonucci was wrong to suggest the blame was equal. The blame for the racist chants is on those idiots alone. Allegri, however, made a clear case denouncing the racists. He just suggested that irregardless of what happened Kean should be more level-headed. Obviously, that is something one can disagree with and is easily said from the outside, especially since I don't think Kean did anything really provocative, but he voiced a reasonable opinion.
 

Canagel

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Ian Wright called him a pussio :lol: :lol:
He's tried to backtrack and is getting hammered on social media. No way back after this. 50/50 ffs
And this coming from a man that provoked Juve fans when he played for Milan. No morals whatsoever.
 
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He's tried to backtrack and is getting hammered on social media. No way back after this. 50/50 ffs
And this coming from a man that provoked Juve fans when he played for Milan. No morals whatsoever.
It makes you wonder what he would be doing if he wasn't playing football the man has no brains!
 

noodlehair

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Allegri is exactly right and it's also why someone needs to get hold of Sterling and tell him to start engaging his brain.

You aren't going to educate a racist by prodding them with a stick...although saying that you can't really blame the player for wanting to give a bit of stick back. He's within his rights you just have to try and encourage a more useful approach.

Going to war with idiots will achieve little other than a war.
 

adexkola

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Allegri is exactly right and it's also why someone needs to get hold of Sterling and tell him to start engaging his brain.

You aren't going to educate a racist by prodding them with a stick...although saying that you can't really blame the player for wanting to give a bit of stick back. He's within his rights you just have to try and encourage a more useful approach.

Going to war with idiots will achieve little other than a war.
I think it's wrong to group Bonucci and Allegri together. Bonucci was wrong to suggest the blame was equal. The blame for the racist chants is on those idiots alone. Allegri, however, made a clear case denouncing the racists. He just suggested that irregardless of what happened Kean should be more level-headed. Obviously, that is something one can disagree with and is easily said from the outside, especially since I don't think Kean did anything really provocative, but he voiced a reasonable opinion.
It's tone deaf to suggest how someone being racially abused should react.
 

Sylar

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Because how can you gauge what sort of reaction somebody will have unless youve gone through it yourself. Its easy to say 'keep a level head' etc, but unless you can speak from experience, how can you possibly know what they are going through?
 

JuveGER

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Because how can you gauge what sort of reaction somebody will have unless youve gone through it yourself. Its easy to say 'keep a level head' etc, but unless you can speak from experience, how can you possibly know what they are going through?
Of course, it is easy to say, when you don't have to through it yourself. I said so myself above. That doesn't make it wrong to make a suggestion on how best to react and it does not make his suggestion wrong. In fact, often not being directly affected allows you to have a more level-headed look at things. Allegri will probably never know what it feels like to be racially abused, but he can have an opinion on whether it is helpful or not to react to such things. Putting it into practice is a different thing, obviously.
 

adexkola

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What @Sylar said.

Racism is a terrible thing. The chants towards Kean are open and visible, but you have to see them as the straw that broke the camel's back rather than isolated incidents that are easier to brush off. If your whole life you've been struggling against systemic and covert racism and discrimination, and then one day this happens... I thought his response was rather measured and matured already.
 

adexkola

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Of course, it is easy to say, when you don't have to through it yourself. I said so myself above. That doesn't make it wrong to make a suggestion on how best to react and it does not make his suggestion wrong. In fact, often not being directly affected allows you to have a more level-headed look at things. Allegri will probably never know what it feels like to be racially abused, but he can have an opinion on whether it is helpful or not to react to such things. Putting it into practice is a different thing, obviously.
He can have an opinion. Bonucci can also.

And I can have an opinion on where they should stick theirs. Especially if that opinion comes with no empathy or consideration for who exactly should moderate their behavior (hint: not Kean)
 

MJJ

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Of course, it is easy to say, when you don't have to through it yourself. I said so myself above. That doesn't make it wrong to make a suggestion on how best to react and it does not make his suggestion wrong. In fact, often not being directly affected allows you to have a more level-headed look at things. Allegri will probably never know what it feels like to be racially abused, but he can have an opinion on whether it is helpful or not to react to such things. Putting it into practice is a different thing, obviously.
Even if that was true, you don't publicly tell a 19 year old kid that he is part of the problem. He could easily have told him that in private while condemning the racists in his post match interview.
 

JuveGER

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Even if that was true, you don't publicly tell a 19 year old kid that he is part of the problem. He could easily have told him that in private while condemning the racists in his post match interview.
He could have said that in private. Fair enough. But again, I don't think he made Kean "part of the problem". He seperated both issues. He clearly came out against the racists and blamed them for what happened. And then he talked about Kean and that he thought he should react differently. You can assign all blame for the racist chants to the idiots and still think Kean could have acted differently. These views are not mutually exclusive.
 

Devil may care

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Even if that was true, you don't publicly tell a 19 year old kid that he is part of the problem. He could easily have told him that in private while condemning the racists in his post match interview.
Exactly, as a senior player he could have pulled him aside after the game in private and advised him that it's best not to react to these scum bags at all, don't let them have that satisfaction of knowing they got in your head, but publicly he needs to back the kid fully and offer no excuses for racist pricks.
 

Ramos

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In general as a teammate or a coach, when a player is facing that kind of vile racism just back them. Just support them. Especially a 19 yo. Not that hard.

It's neither the time nor their place to publicly berate a person of color on what tactics to use in handling racism. It shows a serious lack of empathy and understanding.
 

noodlehair

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It's tone deaf to suggest how someone being racially abused should react.
It isn't at all. It's wrong to use the word blame I think or to tell them how they should be expected to react, but suggesting how to is part of solving the problem.

If every one reacts by provocation, even if it's wrong to judge them for It, what do you think the end result is going to be?
 

passing-wind

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Seen on social media that Ian Wright called him a p_ssyhole :lol:

But bonucci is basically providing a justification for being racist.

If you are provoked in life it doesn't mean you go a step further, the best way to win the moral war is to actually do nothing. Then it just makes the original gesture of troubling you look stupid / humility.
 

MJJ

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He could have said that in private. Fair enough. But again, I don't think he made Kean "part of the problem". He seperated both issues. He clearly came out against the racists and blamed them for what happened. And then he talked about Kean and that he thought he should react differently. You can assign all blame for the racist chants to the idiots and still think Kean could have acted differently. These views are not mutually exclusive.
Nope, you dont have two arguments at that point highlighting what both sides did wrong. Not sure if Kean has gone into too much detail but read what Allen Iverson faced at that age and how his coach dealt with it.
 

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Seen on social media that Ian Wright called him a p_ssyhole :lol:

But bonucci is basically providing a justification for being racist.

If you are provoked in life it doesn't mean you go a step further, the best way to win the moral war is to actually do nothing. Then it just makes the original gesture of troubling you look stupid / humility.
Did he? I never seen that but been in work all day
 

africanspur

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Allegri is exactly right and it's also why someone needs to get hold of Sterling and tell him to start engaging his brain.

You aren't going to educate a racist by prodding them with a stick...although saying that you can't really blame the player for wanting to give a bit of stick back. He's within his rights you just have to try and encourage a more useful approach.

Going to war with idiots will achieve little other than a war.
How exactly are black players going to educate racists in your view and why is it their responsibility to do so while they're kicking around a football?
 

adexkola

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It isn't at all. It's wrong to use the word blame I think or to tell them how they should be expected to react, but suggesting how to is part of solving the problem.

If every one reacts by provocation, even if it's wrong to judge them for It, what do you think the end result is going to be?
There is no reaction of Kean that convinces the racists that their actions are moronic and immoral.

I don't know what happens if everyone reacts with provocation. That's not the standard I use to judge whether a reaction is warranted or excessive.

Kean could moon the crowd after scoring and I'd understand it.

That’s a ridiculous thing to say
It's not.
 

Sylar

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Of course, it is easy to say, when you don't have to through it yourself. I said so myself above. That doesn't make it wrong to make a suggestion on how best to react and it does not make his suggestion wrong. In fact, often not being directly affected allows you to have a more level-headed look at things. Allegri will probably never know what it feels like to be racially abused, but he can have an opinion on whether it is helpful or not to react to such things. Putting it into practice is a different thing, obviously.
My point is its simplistic for somebody not going through it themselves to just say 'rise above the hate'. Its easy. And yes, they can have opinions. But after a case like this, especially from team mate and manager, he should be backed as a youngster. All he did was score and basically pose. He could have done so much worse. His reaction was measured.

Anybody suggesting him (or Sterling) need to be looked at / need to use their brain / etc is just being idiotic given how well the two of them (for the example) have done in their reactions to the whole situation.
 

JuveGER

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Nope, you dont have two arguments at that point highlighting what both sides did wrong. Not sure if Kean has gone into too much detail but read what Allen Iverson faced at that age and how his coach dealt with it.
I disagree. He is his coach, he needs to make sure his player keeps his head on the pitch. Of course, he highlight to him if he thinks Kean reacted wrongly. I concur that it would have been better to do that in private, to avoid linking the two together. But is wrong to group Allegri, who clearly came out against the racist and explicitly said that nothing (e.g. Kean's celebration) justifies their behavior, together with Bonucci. That was the original comment I reacted, too, and that context is getting lost a bit here.
 

JuveGER

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My point is its simplistic for somebody not going through it themselves to just say 'rise above the hate'. Its easy. And yes, they can have opinions. But after a case like this, especially from team mate and manager, he should be backed as a youngster. All he did was score and basically pose. He could have done so much worse. His reaction was measured.

Anybody suggesting him (or Sterling) need to be looked at / need to use their brain / etc is just being idiotic given how well the two of them (for the example) have done in their reactions to the whole situation.
I agree. In this specific case, I think that there was nothing wrong with what Kean did (see my comment above). But the "tone deaf" comment seemed to be more general. That's what I disagree with.
 

MJJ

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I disagree. He is his coach, he needs to make sure his player keeps his head on the pitch. Of course, he highlight to him if he thinks Kean reacted wrongly. I concur that it would have been better to do that in private, to avoid linking the two together. But is wrong to group Allegri, who clearly came out against the racist and explicitly said that nothing (e.g. Kean's celebration) justifies their behavior, together with Bonucci. That was the original comment I reacted, too, and that context is getting lost a bit here.
I agree with that, what allegri said isnt close to what bonucci did.
 

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Imagine policing how black people should respond to racism, what a world
 

ErranMorad

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Imagine policing how black people should respond to racism, what a world
Shocking reactions from Bonucci and Allegri, and some equally shocking posts on here.

He is entitled to react whatever way he wants. Should have gone to the stands and socked a couple of these moron for all I care.