The big question is if United will catch up. City and Pool have done so much right for so many years. It's like United became a bear after Sir Ferguson quit. And went into hibernation. And while the rest kept on working time almost stood still for United. I hope people have patience with Solskjær cause he has the right hearth. But it's going to take time.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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He won't join us why would he.
We were playing cannon fodder garbage in those games and everyone was buzzing because Mourinho was gone, when reality set in the 4-4-2 diamond became the clear formation to get the best out of our strikers regardless of who is playing, it even got Lukaku back in a lot of fans good graces. Just look at Saturday, we started out with a 4-3-3 trying to play up to Rashford, he got knocked over or dispossessed nearly every time, we changed to the diamond with Mata in behind and had our best spell of the game, as Marcus could then play as the type of striker he actually is and not trying to be one he isn't.
I didn't ignore it, I've been saying for ages we need a top RB regardless of formation, and Shaw has started to offer more in attack in recent weeks, something Ole said they'd been working on. If we get the fullbacks going and a top class false 9/#10 in then the diamond will work well, it already works for us reasonably well despite missing 3 key pieces. The 4-3-3 isn't going to have any sustainability for us unless we buy another striker and return Rashford to the LW to compete with Martial. This whole Martial/Rashford/Sancho videogame idea is never going to work IMO, the pieces are ill fitting.
The criticism you have of the forwards not being able to hold the ball up doesn't simply disappear when you play a diamond. Not sure where you are getting that from. Either they learn to do it, or they're not good enough. Modern top level football doesn't allow limited players to excel. We can't always be counter attacking against teams like Wolves, Burnley etc.
Ultimately the formation now is irrelevant. What matters is which players are available to buy and which will be sold. The biggest influence probably won't be full back or right wing but midfield since that is going to see the biggest turnover. And we may not see the final decision until the following season.
Anyway... this is derailing the thread.
I never said it disappeared, but when you play the diamond it's the false 9/#10 that acts as the attacking fulcrum and the two strikers play off him, which means that Rashford, Martial and Lukaku will all maximize what they are good at. It's basic maths IMO, if you want to play 4-3-3 then you need to buy a top RW and a top #9, if you want to play the 4-4-2 diamond you need a false 9 or #10, one expensive signing rather than two. The midfield issue remains the same in either formation as we need 2 regardless, the only midfield piece that would change anything is if Pogba goes to Real as then the 4-2-3-1 comes back to the table as an option but requires two expensive forward buys the same as the 4-3-3, the difference being we'd have the Pogba money to facilitate the purchases.
Cause we give youth a chance?
I think this will be another one of those sagas that doesnt happen. Ole has said he hopes to have his signings ready for pre season and unless we offer a staggering amount I do not see it happening at all. Also how do we know he would even want to join us, he may be close to a few United players but if we have no CL to offer which I believe will be the case why move to us, we look years away from challenging for league never mind the CL.
Is he a boyhood fan of United?
I'm more concerned with keeping our two best players at the club this summer than blowing most of our budget on him when we need about 5 players.
Is he a boyhood fan of United?
I'm more concerned with keeping our two best players at the club this summer than blowing most of our budget on him when we need about 5 players.
Seems unlikely if we miss out on top 4 again (4th time in 6 years). It's become more than a post-SAF blip of bad form for the club now and players around Europe will surely consider whether they want to join an organisation with such evident structural/performance issues.
Fair enough, maybe in terms of cost cutting you are right. I would prefer to sell Lukaku and buy Sancho and Hudson-Odoi, playing Martial/Rashford in the middle. That will give many options regardless of formation. They can swap positions, interchange, break down defences and counter attack. United should have 4 forwards. This is fantasy anyway, I don't expect us to get both and it's likely we will get neither.
Whatever happens, our new and current players will need to be coached to the highest standard as I feel this is the main reason why our attack fails to spark rather than formation.
I'm not a fan of Lukaku, in fact the opposite, but adding 2 more kids to a frontline that already features 2 forwards who are wildly inconsistent isn't going to get us anywhere, that's a forward line that would take 3 to 4 years to even be ready for a challenge, and on top of that neither Rashford or Martial can hold the ball up so we'd have the same difficulty of being just a counter attacking side. To me whatever choice is made for the forward line we need a proven player who can control the attack to help the younger ones we already have, as neither are ready to carry the attack for anything more than a top 4 scramble.
I agree the coaching needs to improve, our general movement off the ball is often not good enough as a collective, and our composure on the ball in all areas of the pitch is not up to scratch either.
Not sure if serious?
There are a number of reasons. Firstly and most importantly money and fame. Also with the shite we have on our books, he's guaranteed to start.
I will say that we will need to make a pretty compelling case to show that we are looking to be an elite club again and how we plan to (buy) do it.
Didn't watch the game with Bayern but I guess he didn't have a stormer last night.
Btw, the result last night makes the transfer a little bit more likely as he might want to jump ship. Mind, Dortmuind would still want 120m or something.
We've become the biggest joke in football really. We're the biggest, we're the richest, we've the most fans.. blah blah. Football has a short memory and at the moment we're just another Arsenal.
We've had 3 horrible managerial appointments, 3 of them each with contrasting styles thus have 3 completely different type of players in a team which just won't work. (Moyes 2 square pegs, LVG's failed tiki taka style and Jose's tall destroyers).
Who has been a hit of all our signings in recent years? £664m spent and only £150m on quality (Pogba, Shaw, Martial).
It could take 2-3 years of the right players to compete. But in that time we need to not make 1 bad signing. Surely we're due some luck in that regard? Probably the worst time to need to rebuild though with Bayern, Madrid, Us and Chelsea all needing 5+ starters.
Liverpool before this season finished 6th, 8th, 4th, 4th. Hardly doing so much right for so many years. United finished above them 3 of them seasons and have finished above them more than they have finished above United since SAF retired. United also won a few trophies along the way.
Can’t forget that less than 12 mo tha ago United finished 2nd to their 4th.
People making out like Liverpool are doing amazing compared to us these last few years is total nonsense and kneejerk.
Its a testament to the joke club that they are that United have been in their worst period for 30 years and Liverpool still haven’t won anything and finished below United plenty of times.
Very good analysis. A diamond is definitely more suited to this squad than a 433, also spending big over Sancho is putting huge pressure on a kid who has not played a single game in English league and has still lot more is needed for him to develop. If he is still a top player a year after in Dortmund current stint it would be more suitable to move after him a year later than to have an untested video game front 3. That money should really be used for someone like eriksen who can play anywhere in attacking midfield and also on the right for a year when situations demand while taking off creating burden from pogba's shoulders alone who is inconsistent himself. While having 4 strikers at the club it really doesn't suit us to play a 433 as our first preferred system as having 2 back up strikers to two upfront makes much more sense than spalshing out big on a 18 year old talented kid and expecting miracles from him.
Saw the first half and was Dortmund's defending was a joke - Bayern were all over them and Dortmund hardly saw the ball. Not much Sancho could do to be honest
Just get Pepe. We are not suited to play an expansive game, so a lot of Sancho's qualities will be wasted. Sancho when he beats his man looks for runners, we do not support our attackers with runners, rather we put them in situations where they can go through on goal.
I couldn’t agree more with all this!
Spot on.
Clearly you are new to Muppetville
. Another poster was talking about us spending 500mil (albeit including sales) this Summer.
Agreed. And players already at the club will also start reasoning along the same lines about whether they should stay.
We shouldn't waste time on this lad. Dortmund says they're not selling, let's just move on. It would do him well to have another season under his belt anyway.
Next season. Thread closed.
they usually say they're not selling tbf
Think we will want it done this season. If £100m doesn’t do it then we will probably have to wait.
Ok. Just think we shouldn't waste time plus I'm very uncomfortable about getting this kid for so much money. Imagine the pressure the poor lad would be under to perform well immediately? I just think we need to think carefully about this.
If his price tag is around 100m this season next season we'll be out of the list of buyers for sure.
No. Sancho is the elite talent out of the two. Get him. His qualities won't at all be wasted. We need more complete players to help us improve. And he is just that.
Or he could have a below the par season and his stock goes down. We just can't predict anything. I don't know how strong he is mentally but even then, it would be really difficult for him with that price tag on his head imho.
1. Dortmund are a selling club
2. They just did a liverpool in the league, atmosphere will not be that great at the end of the season and their coach might leave, especially given the fact that he does not have that good a relationship with Reus.
3. They always say they won't sell.
4. Dortmund almost went bankrupt not so long ago. They won't miss the opportunity to make 90 mil profit on a kid. It's a good decision from a business point of view, call it a risk reward. If he has a bad season in 2020 they won't get 50 mil on him.
5. They have zero chance of winning anything in Germany so they always look to make a quick profit on players, that is their business model.
6. Sancho had a good season, his agent will ask for a hefty wage increase, that's another risk for 1 more season.
Dunno, I just feel they'll easily sell if someone comes with 100 mil.
True,the likes of Pulisic, Dembele,Hummels, Aubamaeyang, Lewandowski and Gotze weren't for sale according tot heir management until they were shortly after.
Wouldn't take much credence into what they say tbh,if the money is right they'll offload him without protest. It's not like he's German or an academy product
The issue is they just sold Pulisic, unless they can find replacement for both wingers it is very unlikely they will let Sancho leave this summer.
To be fair, all of those players had certain circumstances. Hummels and Goetze were both release clauses I believe. Lewandowski wasn’t for sale and had to leave on a free, and the other two were eventually for sale at a time that suited Dortmund, not before.
I mean Pulisic and Hummels had their contracts running out it was very much obvious that they would either extend or be sold.
Götze activated a release clause (which the club doesn't want to allow anymore).
Lewandowski actually wasn't sold but had to run down his contract.
Aubameyang was officially up for sale the summer before.
Dembele had to go on strike to force a move for almost ~€150m.
Other than that you're spot on of course.
1. Yes that is true, the CEO admits it too.
2. If 'did a Liverpool' means competing for a title this late in the season not many outside the club really thought they would be competing for, then yes, that is also true. Not sure how being 2nd and a couple points back would mean the atmosphere will turn bad.
3. Not always. Depends on circumstances. If players wont re-sign, then, the club will sell and won't hide the fact either. If a player acts like a small child and goes on strike, then yes, they will sell - on their terms.
4. Since then, Dortmund have worked their way back to being a very well run club, and have been a consant presence in European competition for near on a decade, the near bankruptcy serves as a remimder, but not a business model. They will make a big profit on Sancho next summer.
5. Zero chance? Dortmund have won 2 leagues and 2 cups in the past 8 years as well as getting to a CL final that no one expected them to get too, let's not make out the club haven't won anything or can't compete, or won't in the future.
6. He signed a new contract earlier this season, Dortmund don't need to panic and sell him now, they can wait till next summer at least.
If we can’t get Sancho for a fair price (80m), I would go for jack Clarke at Leeds, reminds me of giggs the way he takes players on, even if he didn’t do brilliant for his first season he would still be an upgrade to our right wing situation.
To be honest, I’ve only seen him play a game and a half this season plus YouTube but I would like us to go for both him and Sancho over the next couple seasons, one now and one next.
Another option would be bale for a good price.
To be honest, I’ve only seen him play a game and a half this season plus YouTube but I would like us to go for both him and Sancho over the next couple seasons, one now and one next.
Another option would be bale for a good price.
It would take a substantial amount of Ole’s budget to sign him...meaning Ole might not be able to strengthen in other areas.
Which means putting a lot of eggs in one basket, and I’m just not sure his arrival would translate to success on the pitch.
The only scenario I’d see it happening is if Ole loses Pogba and used the funds on Sancho. Meaning the sale doesn’t come out of his transfer budget.
Which means putting a lot of eggs in one basket, and I’m just not sure his arrival would translate to success on the pitch.
The only scenario I’d see it happening is if Ole loses Pogba and used the funds on Sancho. Meaning the sale doesn’t come out of his transfer budget.
I've got to admit that I got on the Sancho bandwagon and wanted United to sign him but I think Jadon Sancho needs to prove himself next season to ensure that he's no one season wonder. I'm a little wary of us signing a player who's that young and for such a massive price. I would rather go for someone who's in their early 20s and will substantially improve our right wing immensely from Mata and Lingard. At present, I would consider either Pepe or Lozano. We wouldn't need to break the bank or pay huge wages.
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