Was he really 'hard' or just dirty?

Needham

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Hat tip to @77 who raised this in the Tommy Smith thread.
Is any player thought of as hard nothing more than dirty?
I'd say they are.
Even someone as unappealing in his playing days as Vinnie Jones could take it. McMahon stud-stabbed him in the shin in revenge for the 88 Cup final reducer and Jones wouldn't show pain.
John Barnes was up close when Josimar launched over the ball to assault Stuart Pearce and it was Josimar who was hurt.
So are there any 'hard' ones out there who were nothing more than dirty?
 

11101

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Neil Ruddock.

Hard in his own mind only, and maybe if you get in between him and a steak & kidney pie.
 
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Samid

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Souness? Constantly on his 'game has gone' meltdowns but from the clips I've seen he was more a dirty leg breaker than a hard man as he often tries to portray himself.
 

Melville Red

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My god nobody has mensioned our own Bryan Robson and indeed Roy Kean.
Those two were hard bastards, ok Roy did over step the mark once or twice but my god we could do with his like now.
As for Tommy Smith, he was a bloody good footballer and goodness knows why he only got one England cap. Mind you Sir Alf dropped our Nobby who was a bloody good hard midfielder for Alan Mullery which sums up why England got knocked out of the 1970 World Cup by W Germany.
T Smith was a good hard tackling footballer, dirty? No he just played when football was football and fellow players weren’t cheats who went over for a free kick at the slightest touch. Today’s footballers are spoiling the game by their constant cheating.
 
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Back in the day every team had one or two get your retaliation in first merchants, no harm in that as it was a man's game, now you've got guys with their lives history tattooed on the thighs and necks(and I don't even want to imagine how painful that must have been to have done) yet go down as if they'd been shot if somebody touches them on the shoulder. I know which I prefer.
 

Adam_S

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Ryan Giggs on Bryan Robson.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...repares-for-Cardiff-return-ahead-of-40th.html

“This Sheffield United right-back was kicking me in one game, giving me a few verbals and it affected me a little bit. I said to Robbo: ‘That right-back’s just said he’s going to break my legs.’ Robbo said: ‘Did he? You come and play centre-midfield. I’m going to play left wing for 10 minutes.’ We swapped positions. Robbo soon came back: ‘Aye, you’re all right now, go back over’. Problem solved! I had this mentality that if Robson was playing we’d never lose. We usually won. He had that authority. He’d tell me when I was not passing enough or dribbling too much. Him and Brucey [Steve Bruce] were brilliant for me.
Click to expand...
 

Cloudface

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I've never seen booting people on purpose as they try to play a game as particularly tough. Seems kind of sad when people talk as if it does.
 

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It's not a good thing that people went around deliberately trying to hurt opponents. Going over the ball and stamping on someone's knee isn't hard it's a cheap shot.

Say what you like about the 'good old days' but I prefer football to be about skill and controlled aggression, not retaliation and 'reducers'
 

golden_blunder

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That united team with Robson ince keane bruce pallister Hughes cantona could play football or mix it up with the best
 

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Maticmaker

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Tommy Smith, a good servant and stalwart for Liverpool, hard as nails and could dish it out when necessary. "You never had to worry about anyone getting down your right side when Tommy was playing" this was a comment from one of his fellow defenders (cant remember who?) when Smith retired.
Gave us some grief down the years, but a true footballer RIP.
 

montpelier

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our dirty player = hard

their dirty player = dirty

outside of that, some could play & some couldn't

what more can you say - it was a very dirty game back then & 'physical' even when they weren't outright kicking each other

also the tactical shape of the game seemed to be that there were more passes into areas for players to chase, balls to feet could get you clattered from behind & so on - it was violent, basically
 

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Was Roy Keane actually hard? He was very mentally tough and dirty but he'd get destroyed in fight against a genuine hardman like John Fashanu or Duncan Ferguson.
 

redman5

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Needham said:
Hat tip to @77 who raised this in the Tommy Smith thread.
Is any player thought of as hard nothing more than dirty?
I'd say they are.
Even someone as unappealing in his playing days as Vinnie Jones could take it. McMahon stud-stabbed him in the shin in revenge for the 88 Cup final reducer and Jones wouldn't show pain.
John Barnes was up close when Josimar launched over the ball to assault Stuart Pearce and it was Josimar who was hurt.
So are there any 'hard' ones out there who were nothing more than dirty?
Click to expand...
Vinnie Jones claimed in his autobiography that Steve McMahon was the hardest player he faced as a player. The clip shown on here was nothing compared to what McMahon did to Jones in the first meeting between the clubs after the 88 final. It was mid-way through the first half at Anfield when Steve launched a full on side kick on Jones that Bruce Lee would have been proud of. It very nearly snapped him in 2. VJ was down for a good 5 minutes receiving treatment. At one point they brought on a stretcher. Full credit to the Wimbledon man though, he eventually got himself up & played the game out. So both men were as tough as they come. They could both take it as well as dish it out. When McMahon was at Everton he was one of the few players in the league who'd stand up to Graham Souness out there on the pitch. It's probably the reason we signed him to replace Souness when he left.
 

Tommy

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Gattuso was hard, but I wouldn't call him dirty.
 

Sandikan

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P-Ro said:
Was Roy Keane actually hard? He was very mentally tough and dirty but he'd get destroyed in fight against a genuine hardman like John Fashanu or Duncan Ferguson.
Click to expand...
There's always people saying this sort of thing on facebook and youtube clips and it normally comes from abu's.

He was hard. Make no bones about it. He was brought up as a boxer and didn't back down for anyone. There's a reason he's always mentioned by true tough players who played against him.

Obviously it doesn't mean he's necessarily going to win actual fights against 6ft 4 animals like duncan Ferguson. But he wouldn't back down
 

Denis' cuff

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Like Nobby, he could play a bit. Often overlooked with hard players and these two were hard.

Snowflakes putting us right about what football was like when they weren’t around to witness it, overlooking the present day, bulked up speed merchants who go crashing through a player and justify it by claiming they made contact with the ball, then go down like they’ve been shot when somebody so much as breathes near them. :D:rolleyes:
 

Rhyme Animal

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P-Ro said:
Was Roy Keane actually hard? He was very mentally tough and dirty but he'd get destroyed in fight against a genuine hardman like John Fashanu or Duncan Ferguson.
Click to expand...
Roy Keane was / is hard, yeah.

I'm gonna buck the trend a bit here and say that I think Wayne Rooney is fecking hard and would utterly batter most other players - especially in his peak.
 

Nico87

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Curtis Woodhouse had a successful career in the Championship before quitting to switch to boxing where he became a British champion. I think Francis who played for Norwich did similar.
 

paulscholes18

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Jaap Stam was a hard but not dirty, Zlatan was hard but did have a dirty streak to him
 

Tommy

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Andersonson said:
Robbo
Hughes
Keane
Vida
Rooney
Click to expand...
Rooney did the dirty on someone just a week or two back in the MLS. He's always had it in him. Don't buy that he's particularly hard, either.
 
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