The squad building since Ferguson left has been as organized as an earthquake. if he successfully arrests the slipshod random purchase of subpar parawank, he'll have made a start. But how many windows does that require?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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He came in and took over a broken side as an interim, went on a roll nobody saw coming, got us back to a position where we can still finish in the top four. He's not been lucky with injuries (and suspensions). And he's working with a squad which needs an injection of quality (everyone seems to agree with this), including at least a couple of additions to the starting XI.
In short, this isn't the time to dissect his tactical choices and assess his overall performance as permanent manager of Manchester United. I couldn't care less if we finish this league campaign with a series of scrappy-as-feck displays as long we we get the points. He's been given the contract now, it makes no sense to second guess that call before he's had a chance to bring in reinforcements and properly implement his plans.
I understand that people are skeptical, I don't blame them for that. But to look for confirmation of your doubts in games like yesterday's makes no sense. Wait and see a bit, ffs. He could surprise you.
In short, this isn't the time to dissect his tactical choices and assess his overall performance as permanent manager of Manchester United. I couldn't care less if we finish this league campaign with a series of scrappy-as-feck displays as long we we get the points. He's been given the contract now, it makes no sense to second guess that call before he's had a chance to bring in reinforcements and properly implement his plans.
I understand that people are skeptical, I don't blame them for that. But to look for confirmation of your doubts in games like yesterday's makes no sense. Wait and see a bit, ffs. He could surprise you.
Not saying Olé is gunna be the man, but it's crazy to be too critical of him really. We all aknowledge that we are painfully weak in a number of areas, it's only fair to give him at least half next season (after pre season and summer window etc) before we really judge him.
There was plenty of iffy performances in Pep's first campaign in charge.
There was plenty of iffy performances in Pep's first campaign in charge.
No, of course not. Mourinho was beyond awful this season and deserved the sack. But lets stop pretending that right now is any better that what we witnessed last season. In case you've forgotten, we ended up 2nd with 82 points which is still the besy since SAF retired.
Mourinho had hundreds of millions to spend.
Solskjaer hasn't been able to bring in anybody. It's a totally unfair comparison
That's a fair point. But it's not as if Ole has been given training cones to set up his team. Besides, I'm not calling for Ole's head. I simply responded to the table that was posted about how we're performing better than our rivals.
Okay, let's say right now is the same as what we witnessed last season. Mourinho had 3 transfer windows and one full season of coaching to get that. Solksjaer has had no pre-season, no transfers and no time, to achieve similar results. On top of that, he came in during a crisis period where the fans, team and general mood around the stadium was at an all-time low. He turned it all around. Surely that's reason enough to be optimistic despite a few disappointing results. He's not a miracle worker ffs.
I'm neither optimistic or pessimistic. I'll wait and see. I have no real expectations given the evidence seen over the last 6 years. Everything you've said has been repeated almost every Spring.
The players we bought for millions are still here. The squad is the same.
All managers have their best tactics, but they need the right players. The current squad does not fit into OGS best tactics and that is because OGS and Mourinho play completely different styles of football. This is why transfers matter, they enable the manager to play his best tactics. With the current squad, OGS cannot play his best tactics. On the other hand, Mourinho had 2 seasons to buy players to enable him to play his best tactics. That is why it is unfair to judge OGS while he's had zero transfers.
@Kostov - I'm replying here as it makes more sense than in the other thread.
The only player to out score Pogba since Ole took over is Aguero! Lukaku has scored as many as Kane (8) and Rashford has outscored Sterling!
Only City & Liverpool have out scored us. Huge improvement in attack in other words.
Only City & Liverpool have conceded less. Huge improvement in defence also then. That isn't exactly on De Gea either this time cause he's not been his usual brilliant self this season as often. In fact our defensive players have performed very well under Ole from Smalling, Shaw (Player of the month last month), Lindelof and even Jones on occasion.
Judging 6-7 games isn't exactly a decent sample size to judge him on though is it? It's far more fair to judge it over a bigger picture of time like since he took over perhaps? That has us top of the league with 38 pts, Liverpool on 37 and City on 36.
The only player to out score Pogba since Ole took over is Aguero! Lukaku has scored as many as Kane (8) and Rashford has outscored Sterling!
Only City & Liverpool have out scored us. Huge improvement in attack in other words.
Only City & Liverpool have conceded less. Huge improvement in defence also then. That isn't exactly on De Gea either this time cause he's not been his usual brilliant self this season as often. In fact our defensive players have performed very well under Ole from Smalling, Shaw (Player of the month last month), Lindelof and even Jones on occasion.
The board would obviously want him to get top 4. It wasn't beyond the realms of possibility. I'm not saying his job hinges on it or anything but they would still probably think its possible.
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So many of you are such fecking turncoats, I swear. I wouldn't be seen dead with you if push ever came to shove.
If you want context, look back to Liverpool and Klopp and see how far they had to fall with him after his own decent start before they started to turn the corner last season (TWO F*CKING FULL SEASONS after he started!).
If it was up to you lot, it would likely be another manager in by December and repeat the process. Give Ole time, with at least 4 transfer windows to shape the team in to what he wants it to be. If we're still tumescent by the end of the 2020/21 season, then questions have to be asked but right now? After the near-miracle he's pulled in getting anywhere near top 4 and past PSG? You lot are fecking deluded as to the capabilities of this squad, and need binning off just as much as the deadwood.
If you want context, look back to Liverpool and Klopp and see how far they had to fall with him after his own decent start before they started to turn the corner last season (TWO F*CKING FULL SEASONS after he started!).
If it was up to you lot, it would likely be another manager in by December and repeat the process. Give Ole time, with at least 4 transfer windows to shape the team in to what he wants it to be. If we're still tumescent by the end of the 2020/21 season, then questions have to be asked but right now? After the near-miracle he's pulled in getting anywhere near top 4 and past PSG? You lot are fecking deluded as to the capabilities of this squad, and need binning off just as much as the deadwood.
Gotcha, we can't question Ole for anything until the end of 20/21 season. This is exactly the reason we are in such a deep shite with our mystical 3 year "process".
I love this post, first paragraph is how I feel browsing the forum these days.
Thank goodness match-going fans know the meaning of the word «support», and don’t do a 180 at the first sign of trouble.
I'm sort of glad we've hit a bit of a downfall. It's much needed that we bring in players with a consistent level. And it's even much more needed that the people in charge of recruitment are able to see that we have some very inconsistent players. If our honeymoon had lasted throughout most of the remaining season I think everyone around the club would feel confident of going into next season with pretty much what we have.
I don't blame Ole for much of what we are seeing at the moment. Our players are capable of some decent stuff when on a high. But the second they get cocky about it and things starts getting a bit rough they are right back at a very mediocre level. Most of the players seems a bit dumb on football whereas others are both football dumb and lack some basic technical skills such as passing.
I hope we stick the "Galáticos" sort of recruitment right up where the sun don't shine. We need to look at what Liverpool did then they got it all right. We need to stop thinking a few very expensive signings are going to solve any of our problems. That has been our main curse ever since we brought in van Gaal and Woodward released his inner spender. We need to bring in players whom perform at very consistent level 80% of the games. A natural leader wouldn't hurt much either. We lack some spine.
Give Ole all of that and I think we'll be in for some fun years to come. He may not make us the dominant force we so badly want to be again but for the moment I'll settle with "just" seeing some very entertaining football and a bit of excitement in the higher ladder of the table.
I don't blame Ole for much of what we are seeing at the moment. Our players are capable of some decent stuff when on a high. But the second they get cocky about it and things starts getting a bit rough they are right back at a very mediocre level. Most of the players seems a bit dumb on football whereas others are both football dumb and lack some basic technical skills such as passing.
I hope we stick the "Galáticos" sort of recruitment right up where the sun don't shine. We need to look at what Liverpool did then they got it all right. We need to stop thinking a few very expensive signings are going to solve any of our problems. That has been our main curse ever since we brought in van Gaal and Woodward released his inner spender. We need to bring in players whom perform at very consistent level 80% of the games. A natural leader wouldn't hurt much either. We lack some spine.
Give Ole all of that and I think we'll be in for some fun years to come. He may not make us the dominant force we so badly want to be again but for the moment I'll settle with "just" seeing some very entertaining football and a bit of excitement in the higher ladder of the table.
Sorry, but that isn't going to happen. Obviously he needs time to improve us and anyone who was ecstatic about him four weeks ago and doesn't want him here now is probably a bit of a reactionary, but if we're lingering in 7th come next March and we're playing dire football then fans will be right to call for his sacking. Failing managers tend not to get two full years at clubs now. For good reason too.
Obviously in an ideal world that won't happen, and we'll see him succeed, but he'll still get criticism if we don't perform next season irrespective of his achievements thus far.
The style of play could have declined for a number of reasons
It could be fitness and fatigue reasons. A early theme of OGS games was we’d play well attacking wise for the opening hour then we’d looked knackered after that, where we would look more vulnerable... so it could be that OGS has probably noted that so teams later down the line don’t exploit it.
Also it’s worth noting that almost every game has been a biggish game in some way apart from the Reading FA Cup 3rd Round tie.. All league games have been must win in terms of trying to gain ground on Top 4. All the other FA Cup draws we’ve had have both as tough as they can get. Arsenal away, Chelsea away then Wolves away (the best of the rest team this year).. then he’s had PSG and Barcelona in the Champions League to deal with.
I imagine so many league games that have something riding on it in terms of gaining ground on Top 4 and some tough as feck cup ties will take the wind out of most teams sails. Even our best past teams would not look at great after the run of games we’ve had since the past few weeks... plus our depth is present but it’s ineffective due to it being a mishmash of 4 different managers from Sir Alex to Jose.
Fellaini is already gone. Valencia’s going. Darmian and Rojo are probably going since they barely play. Herrera whilst has the attitude to be here doesn’t have the talent to match it, will probably leave. Mata doesn’t fit OGS’ style at all so I imagine he’ll be leaving... Hopefully there’s substantial events going on behind the scenes which could cause the team to look not that convincing.
It could be fitness and fatigue reasons. A early theme of OGS games was we’d play well attacking wise for the opening hour then we’d looked knackered after that, where we would look more vulnerable... so it could be that OGS has probably noted that so teams later down the line don’t exploit it.
Also it’s worth noting that almost every game has been a biggish game in some way apart from the Reading FA Cup 3rd Round tie.. All league games have been must win in terms of trying to gain ground on Top 4. All the other FA Cup draws we’ve had have both as tough as they can get. Arsenal away, Chelsea away then Wolves away (the best of the rest team this year).. then he’s had PSG and Barcelona in the Champions League to deal with.
I imagine so many league games that have something riding on it in terms of gaining ground on Top 4 and some tough as feck cup ties will take the wind out of most teams sails. Even our best past teams would not look at great after the run of games we’ve had since the past few weeks... plus our depth is present but it’s ineffective due to it being a mishmash of 4 different managers from Sir Alex to Jose.
Fellaini is already gone. Valencia’s going. Darmian and Rojo are probably going since they barely play. Herrera whilst has the attitude to be here doesn’t have the talent to match it, will probably leave. Mata doesn’t fit OGS’ style at all so I imagine he’ll be leaving... Hopefully there’s substantial events going on behind the scenes which could cause the team to look not that convincing.
Was reckless to play a 2 man midfield. Was also naive to think he could chase both the fa cup, league and cl with the same set of players. The fa cup was the reason players fell apart with fatigue injuries during the Liverpool game. The fa cup should be for kids and second teamers. Secondly Ole has to get his priorities right which is top 4 ahead of champions league so I’m still mad he rested Scott almost costing us points against west ham.
I disagree entirely, in fact it's the polar opposite of what your argument.
It's this short termism and increasing desire to get to the top quickly that fecked us up in the first place. You see Klopp after his first two seasons? Or Pep after his first? You see how those clubs let them continue with their mythical 3 year processes after their rocky starts? You see where they are now and where we are?
That is a mental argument.
It's not his squad! It's a squad filled with players who have shown time and time again they aren't good enough
Criticising a manager for not being able to win with a proven failed squad assembled by other failured managers seems incredibly harsh and unfair.
And actually, even though we're not playing well we're still in a much better position now than anyone thought we'd be when Mourinho left.
Disagree as well. City prepared for Pep's arrival well before he was appointed and while his first season wasn't the best, they finished 3rd with 78 points while dominating majority of the matches. Klopp gradually made Liverpool better and better every season and that's why he earned trust from their fans and the board that he is the right man for the job. We are complete opposite. We always get purple patches here and there but eventually come back to where we were before, or even worse. All managers fully deserved to be sacked as we were clearly going nowhere.
I don't want Ole sacked, I desperately want to finally have a manager who can bring us back to where we belong but I don't think we should close eyes for 3 years and only judge someone then. There are some concerns and worrying signs right now and I don't thing there is anything wrong with expressing it.
We desperately need to get the transfers right this summer. Above all, we need at least 3 or 4 of the players we buy to pan out and become immediate contributers/upgrades and even superstars.
Too long have our managers had to deal with mediocrity and downright rubbish.
Ed needs to get out the chequebook and back OGS with a record spending spree.
Too long have our managers had to deal with mediocrity and downright rubbish.
Ed needs to get out the chequebook and back OGS with a record spending spree.
Bilic talks great sense here. Back him totally.
So ... they must have aired their reservations before thenExactly.
I expected this to happen though, because he came with no high profile success before he would be under enormous amount of scrutiny for most of the fans here.
It would have been same with Zidane though. First defeat and ‘he can’t do this without a world class team’.
Pochettino is probably the only manager who could be crap for two years here and most of Caf would still adore him.
There is a group of fans here that I feel are just waiting for us to play badly so they can come with their ‘I told you soes’.
I am glad that you said thid because I have been saying the same thing but others keep saying that Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal were not as good last season.
It could take some time before we can beat that achievement.
Struggling to remember of a team who has bought that many players and they all work out great in one window?
One thing I miss a about Oles reign now is he doesn't use the surprising factor.
He uses the same players and the same subs almost every time. Sometimes you win only by making a surprise in the tactics or the choice of start11. And now when many of Uniteds players simply aren't good enough og hopefully will be sold this summer it would be a good time to make surprise. I do not mean Greenwood, Garner, Gomes, Chong, Laird, O'Connor or other young players shall be played every match.
But I do not see Ole Gunnar has anything to lose by trying to use Chong as a starter ONE time.
He uses the same players and the same subs almost every time. Sometimes you win only by making a surprise in the tactics or the choice of start11. And now when many of Uniteds players simply aren't good enough og hopefully will be sold this summer it would be a good time to make surprise. I do not mean Greenwood, Garner, Gomes, Chong, Laird, O'Connor or other young players shall be played every match.
But I do not see Ole Gunnar has anything to lose by trying to use Chong as a starter ONE time.
I am a bit wary of the appointment of Ole. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and he is a United legend for sure, although I agree with a lot of people saying we should've waited till the end of the season before making the decision of appointing him or not.
I want nothing more than seeing Ole succeed with United. But considering the current circumstances, I'm going to be patient and wait how he performs next season, when he knows the squad more and with brand new signings, before I make my final judgement. He has certainly done a fantastic job so far, thanks to him we're in the top 4 race and in the Quarter-finals.
I want nothing more than seeing Ole succeed with United. But considering the current circumstances, I'm going to be patient and wait how he performs next season, when he knows the squad more and with brand new signings, before I make my final judgement. He has certainly done a fantastic job so far, thanks to him we're in the top 4 race and in the Quarter-finals.
It's a squad that finished second last season. Since Ole is a better manager than our previous hires, he should be challenging for first at the minimum.
Are you defending Moyes and criticizing the board for sacking him too early? It's not his squad!
Are you out of your fecking mind!? Re-read that bit in bold and tell us why Ole should be responsible for the (lack of) points accumulated by Manchester United when he was manager of Molde?!
And for the record, based on his points accumulated while he actually was our manager he would be competing for first.
We'll forgive him for whatever happens this season.
But if he doesn't challenge for the title next season, especially when backed with a couple of signings, he will be an utter failure and a huge downgrade from our previous managers. Why sack a better manager instead of backing him, only to sign an new inferior manager to back him and fail harder?
Mourinho was sacked entirely on his own merit. He was a toxic presence, dragging this club town.
Time will tell whether Ole can become a better manager than peak Mourinho but he’s evidently already an upgrade on the version of Mourinho he replaced.
He wasn't backed and was turned toxic by the board.
Time will tell whether the board will turn Ole toxic as well. You can see it coming if Ole isn't backed. And if Ole is backed, he has huge shoes to fill as he has to at least challenge for the title or be deemed a downgrade. Only his results will show us if he is an upgrade or downgrade.
He was a great manager who dragged Chelsea down, and let's not pretend we didn't revel in it. He started to do the same at Utd and that had nothing to do with the board,owners or the tea lady.
Ole will be backed but to condemn him as a failure even before he's really begun is absurd
Oh come on. Same shit has happened at every club he’s managed. No way is that a coincidence. And loads of other managers cope with the board letting them down without going into a death spiral the way things turn out under Mourinho. Pocchetino at Spurs being the most obvious (and much more extreme) example. He would give his eye teeth to be “not backed” with as much money as Mourinho had to spend on his squad.
Utter nonsense. He bought Pogba,Fred,Lindelhof,Mkhitarian and Bailly. We won two trophies in his first season with those players, came second playing garbage football in his second season, and he made us worse playing a brand of football that was an embarrassment when you consider the squads of teams that beat us: Sevilla and other humiliating defeats which had nothing to do with the board.
He might have been triggered by the boards lack of backing but Jose has to take the blame for the toxicity no one else. He could have just aimed it at the board but threw a tantrum on the players because he didn't think it was his fault.
If he was backed i do think things probably would have turned out very differently though.
That has to be the best explanation about jose being jose. its all other peoples fault.
You're either a troll or just a massive jose fan.
Well done, you're that women (who looks like a skeleton) on trumps side, alternative facts.
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I don't think it's a coincidence that Mourinho fanboys are the most negative ones with Solskjaer. They can't accept that we kicked his toxic arse and now we are happy without him. They just can't digest it and I love it.
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