Martial's United career so far?

haram

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
12,921
Funny and cute, Martial won FIFA world Young player of the year.

Lingard has had literally a singular good month in 2017-18 season, think it was around Nov / Dec and he scored in a few games back to back.

  • Lingard has played for us 164 time and scored 29 and set up 18 goals. Total of 47 goals involved
  • Martial has played 170 games scoring 48 and setting up 29. Total 77 goals involved.
Martial has provided double what Lingard has, he's 3 years younger... Lingard is a senior player now. Why is there such an intense focus on Martial, but not Lingard? Still have folks giving it loads about Lingard being a kid and he'll develop! He's closer to retirement at this point ffs and delivers nothing.
No one says Lingard should be starting and no one claims he is above the players he plays with like you are doing with Martial. This is also a thread about Martial.

Martial is not above this squad at all. Im done with this now. What good is it arguing with someone who thinks its the other players holding him back when it’s clear when you watch him play that it’s his own faults that hold him back.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
2,653
So when I said its not about winning trophies or even games, you chose to ignore that and completely distort what I was saying? I never said martial had to be messi. It would be a start though, if he should the same level of effort as scott mctominay. Quit moving the goal posts, brobeans. Not a single person has said he should be first out the door. Not one. So why youre bringing up mata or lingard as being worse, I dont know.
Actually, quite a few have in fact. There's more than a few that have posted he isn't delivering so sell him.

Folks have repeatedly said he's under performing, he's not. I've spent page after page saying this, providing evidence to the contrary. I've admitted he lacks movement... However, even though he lacks movement within his game, his returns are still brilliant.

If he added movement / runs in behind the back line, he would definitely be our 25 goal a season player we need. As yet he hasn't.

But you're arguing a point that no one is making. No one is saying other players have been good enough, people are saying Martial hasn't been good enough either. There's no army of people saying we should keep them and get rid of him. There's just some people pointing out he's part of the problem and should be getting beat with the same stick instead of people constantly making excuses for him.
I'm not sure why we are questioning his input at all myself when there are far greater problems than Martial in the squad. No RB worthy of mention, No RW, Matic on his last legs...

Martial performs... lets create a thread saying he isn't good enough? :houllier:
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
2,653
Martial is not above this squad at all. Im done with this now. What good is it arguing with someone who thinks its the other players holding him back when it’s clear when you watch him play that it’s his own faults that hold him back.
The numbers say otherwise, I asked you to prove to me he isn't. You can't.

Best you could provide is he doesn't run enough, its a fault which I've admitted countless times... but even when we factor that in he's still performing better than the rest. Isn't that him therefore performing above the rest of the squad?

Not sure what point there is discussing it with you either, don't seem to understand that sentence above.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
2,653
Pretty sure it's due to the wages they earn. For the wages Martial earns, he needs to be more consistent than Lingard, especially at bigger stages. for what its worth, I am not questioning his numbers. In terms of pure numbers, Martial has been fine for his age. But now is the time he needs to step up, improve his workrate and consistency instead of drifting in and out of matches.

And he is....... Basically giving us double what Lingard is.
  • Lingard has played for us 164 time and scored 29 and set up 18 goals. Total of 47 goals involved
  • Martial has played 170 games scoring 48 and setting up 29. Total 77 goals involved.
He won FIFA world young player of the year in his debut season. Has scored against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal twice each, City and Spurs a goal a piece. Scored in FA Cup Semi Finals.

The work rate is the issue for me, added that and he will most likely be a 25 goal a season type player.
 

haram

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
12,921
He isn’t performing better than the rest though is he :lol:.

He performs better than the rest until he doesn’t, and then it’s because it’s the other players holding him back :lol: :lol:.

What a load of bollocks :lol:.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
8,588
enigma
/ɪˈnɪɡmə/
noun
noun: enigma; plural noun: enigmas
a person or thing that is mysterious or difficult to understand.
"Madeleine was still an enigma to him"
synonyms: mystery, puzzle, riddle, conundrum, paradox, problem, unsolved problem, question, question mark, quandary, a closed book; More

That is Martial basically ^
 

Art Vandelay

Full Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
5,729
Location
Northern Ireland
Actually, quite a few have in fact. There's more than a few that have posted he isn't delivering so sell him.

Folks have repeatedly said he's under performing, he's not. I've spent page after page saying this, providing evidence to the contrary. I've admitted he lacks movement... However, even though he lacks movement within his game, his returns are still brilliant.

If he added movement / runs in behind the back line, he would definitely be our 25 goal a season player we need. As yet he hasn't.



I'm not sure why we are questioning his input at all myself when there are far greater problems than Martial in the squad. No RB worthy of mention, No RW, Matic on his last legs...

Martial performs... lets create a thread saying he isn't good enough? :houllier:
People saying he should be sold is not the same as saying he should be first out the door. If people would stop getting so defensive over him they'd not be inventing arguments that aren't there.

He's had almost 4 years to add movement, what makes you think he's going to add it now? He's shown no drive to improve. Let me guess...Mourinho.

We are questioning him because he's a Manchester United player, Manchester United have not been good enough and we've seen him be a part of that. He's not a special snowflake that's above criticism, he's part of the problem and has done nothing to earn special treatment. He can't hide behind other players or former managers.

He doesn't perform enough and his bottom level is crap.

There's no point in discussing this. Some people just pick their favourite player and he can do no wrong.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
2,653
He isn’t performing better than the rest though is he :lol:.

He performs better than the rest until he doesn’t, and then it’s because it’s the other players holding him back :lol: :lol:

What a load of bollocks :lol:
Well he actually is. I've asked 3 times for you to show me where he isn't and you haven't.

He's our most consistent goal scorer post Ferguson, whilst being a bit part player for 2 of his 3 full season's here.

Only bollicks being posted is from yourself, you've added nothing constructive to the chat at all.
 

haram

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
12,921
Herrera won player of the year!!! He is being held back by Martial!!! Ander is so much better than the rest of the team!!!
 

Reddy Rederson

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
3,809
Location
Unicorn Country.
And he is....... Basically giving us double what Lingard is.
  • Lingard has played for us 164 time and scored 29 and set up 18 goals. Total of 47 goals involved
  • Martial has played 170 games scoring 48 and setting up 29. Total 77 goals involved.
He won FIFA world young player of the year in his debut season. Has scored against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal twice each, City and Spurs a goal a piece. Scored in FA Cup Semi Finals.

The work rate is the issue for me, added that and he will most likely be a 25 goal a season type player.
His work rate is the issue for all of us. The difference is that myself and others think that he should have upped that part of his game long before now. And you saying "if he aads that to his game...". No shit, but the point is he wont. At least not going by what hes showed us in the almost four years hes been here. He doesnt have to be messi, he doesnt have to score 25 goals a season, he just needs to up his effort and hed get a chance from me at least, but as I said. Ive seen nothing that says hes going to change his shitty attitude to doing the work.
 

Reddy Rederson

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
3,809
Location
Unicorn Country.
Herrera won player of the year!!! He is being held back by Martial!!! Ander is so much better than the rest of the team!!!
Nonsense! Lingard has a cool knickname and a clothing line. Clearly its because he doesnt have wordclass all around him that hes shit. If he did, hed start the revolution against rice puddings with bits of fruit in them. Get timeshares for dogs and cats. Expose Melania as the real puppet master. Make brexit a euphemism for bolting from a girl with a fish issue. And have jumping the tie fighter replace jumping the shark.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
2,653
Herrera won player of the year!!! He is being held back by Martial!!! Ander is so much better than the rest of the team!!!
When he wins an award on the same level as Martial, come back to me ;)

As it currently stands, Martial had his contract renewed, the other is on his way and surplus to requirements it seems cause he's little more than another badge kisser.

People saying he should be sold is not the same as saying he should be first out the door. If people would stop getting so defensive over him they'd not be inventing arguments that aren't there.

He's had almost 4 years to add movement, what makes you think he's going to add it now? He's shown no drive to improve. Let me guess...Mourinho.

We are questioning him because he's a Manchester United player, Manchester United have not been good enough and we've seen him be a part of that. He's not a special snowflake that's above criticism, he's part of the problem and has done nothing to earn special treatment. He can't hide behind other players or former managers.

He doesn't perform enough and his bottom level is crap.

There's no point in discussing this. Some people just pick their favourite player and he can do no wrong.
His work rate is the issue for all of us. The difference is that myself and others think that he should have upped that part of his game long before now. And you saying "if he aads that to his game...". No shit, but the point is he wont. At least not going by what hes showed us in the almost four years hes been here. He doesnt have to be messi, he doesnt have to score 25 goals a season, he just needs to up his effort and hed get a chance from me at least, but as I said. Ive seen nothing that says hes going to change his shitty attitude to doing the work.
You're both making similar points so I'll address it in the one...

It's not defensive, its just standard of today's fickle expecting instant results and without adding some constructive context to the argument.

As I've said before, his main manager to date is Jose. A manager who really didn't like him clearly, he misused him and requested he change his game completely and become more defensive minded. Martial had a run of 29 starts in his first season, the best Jose could afford him in 2 years was a run of 5 games on the bounce. Now to put that into context...

Lukaku played a total of 4,071 minutes of football last season in 2017/18

Martial played a total of 4,854 minutes of football over the 2016/17 season...AND... 2017/18 season.

That's a difference of 783 minutes or just slightly over 8 games.

That right there is the definition of phasing a player out.

But apparently to all you lot on here that isn't a valid excuse, means feck all cause he deserved it apparently is what I'm told, when his performance data says otherwise.

Jose is now gone, he's started 9 games for Ole, scored 4 and set up 2. Hasn't been the most energetic by any means but injuries will do that too you.

He's 23 and creeping toward an age where its make or break, hence I say give him next season in an attacking side after Ole / Mike have have done some transfers and see where he is.
 

Reddy Rederson

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
3,809
Location
Unicorn Country.
When he wins an award on the same level as Martial, come back to me ;)

As it currently stands, Martial had his contract renewed, the other is on his way and surplus to requirements it seems cause he's little more than another badge kisser.





You're both making similar points so I'll address it in the one...

It's not defensive, its just standard of today's fickle expecting instant results and without adding some constructive context to the argument.

As I've said before, his main manager to date is Jose. A manager who really didn't like him clearly, he misused him and requested he change his game completely and become more defensive minded. Martial had a run of 29 starts in his first season, the best Jose could afford him in 2 years was a run of 5 games on the bounce. Now to put that into context...

Lukaku played a total of 4,071 minutes of football last season in 2017/18

Martial played a total of 4,854 minutes of football over the 2016/17 season...AND... 2017/18 season.

That's a difference of 783 minutes or just slightly over 8 games.

That right there is the definition of phasing a player out.

But apparently to all you lot on here that isn't a valid excuse, means feck all cause he deserved it apparently is what I'm told, when his performance data says otherwise.

Jose is now gone, he's started 9 games for Ole, scored 4 and set up 2. Hasn't been the most energetic by any means but injuries will do that too you.

He's 23 and creeping toward an age where its make or break, hence I say give him next season in an attacking side after Ole / Mike have have done some transfers and see where he is.
Almost four years is expecting instant results? O..........K..........
 

coolredwine

lameredboots
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
17,065
Location
Je m'en fous!
And he is....... Basically giving us double what Lingard is.
  • Lingard has played for us 164 time and scored 29 and set up 18 goals. Total of 47 goals involved
  • Martial has played 170 games scoring 48 and setting up 29. Total 77 goals involved.
He won FIFA world young player of the year in his debut season. Has scored against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal twice each, City and Spurs a goal a piece. Scored in FA Cup Semi Finals.

The work rate is the issue for me, added that and he will most likely be a 25 goal a season type player.
I literally mentioned in my post that I am not questioning his numbers at all, but his workrate and consistency. There's no point in quoting his numbers again. It's not something that I don't know already.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
2,653
I literally mentioned in my post that I am not questioning his numbers at all, but his workrate and consistency. There's no point in quoting his numbers again. It's not something that I don't know already.
His consistency is fine then surely if you've seen his numbers?

As we've all agreed on the work rate could improve to bring him up to that next level, if its added great. If its not then he'll still be a good / very good player for us in the years ahead I've no doubt.

He isn't a concern for me at all anyway, far bigger problems across the squad.
 

Celoti23-81

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
396
Ask yourself the question, which other top elite European sides would he walk straight into?
 

Alvaro Maestre

Last Man Standing 2 finalist 2023/24
Newbie
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
1,652
Location
Ten Hag's last hair
I dont really get why fans defend him so much, he is a good player with some great sparks of skills here and there . He has no more excuses , he has been under 3 different managers , 2 girlfriends, 3 tinder dates, 1 daughter and plenty of time to prove his worth. I think he is falling short of what we were expecting of him and wasn't a good idea that renewal .
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

New Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
2,737
Location
Acapulco, Somalia
Quite disappointing so far, but that is also because of how good he was when he came here and how hit the ground running.
I don’t thing many expected that, so he’s a bit of a victim of the high standards he has shown when he just arrived.

He needs to step up and quick, because as it is, we need someone better and more consistent for LW of we want to pit a serious title challenge next season.
 

Saf94

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
690
I don’t think Martial needs to be the finished product right now but the thing that really worries is that he seems to not have progressed at all since he joined. Like he isn’t any better than he was as a 19 years old which is insane!

I honestly don’t believe this guy puts in enough effort on or off the pitch as I can’t imagine any other young player who has stagnated like he has. He maybe needs a change or environment or something because nothing seems to change with him.

In Martials defence though I think he’d do really well in a counter attacking team or a team which didn’t clog the area he plays in. He loves to play in space but we are so lopsided to the left wing that the whole opposition is covering that side and he gets crowded out. He flourished under LVGs strict positioning system which afforded him tons of space to run into
 

Camilo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
2,924
He deserves another couple of seasons, but time marches on and I'm struggling to see what he's improved about his game in the last 4/5(?!?) years.
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
21,549
Location
USA
Some are blaming him while some want to blame previous management.
One question probably is more relevant. What is the expectation from Martial by say May 2020, regardless of him playing No 9 or LW?
 

OldTrevil

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
2,873
Fully agree with Keef posts. Martial isn't and hasn't been an issue over his time at United. In fact looking at what he has produced, and the circumstances under which he did it, it's nothing less than impressive. Of course we all want him to add to his game and be great because he's got the talent, but acting as if he's been given the right environment and instead disappointed is far from reality. Let's give the guy a season under a stable attacking manager and see how he gets on.
 

Yagami

Good post resistant
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
13,472
Half of which was as a bit part player, No point me asking you are you really that dumb cause well you've just proved to me you are.
Relax, dude! I agree with you but we don't need the name calling.
 

SATA

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
15,199
Location
We all love United
A lot of opinions will change if he scores the winning goal tomorrow in Spain. I personally think he isn't very good and don't think he will end up good. Probably just a decent player with the occasional moment of brilliance. The Martial FC cult here is also very odd. I would straight swap him with Spurs for Son or Eriksen if the offer is on the table in the summer
 

Siddharth

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
698
Location
There are no strings on me ...
Should be played centrally or put on the bench. Buy a new left winger and right winger in the summer. I believe in he can become our main striker. If by chance he is still not showimg enough then i guess either club would sell or he himself would choose to leave as he wants to be a first teamer.
 

Kostov

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
9,399
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Well if you interpret this as an ‘agenda defending Mourhino’ you don’t seem receptive to reasonable discussion.

This is supposed to be about how good Martial is meant to be, not how shite anyone else is.
I was a Jose supporter on here in lots of cases, I even supported him when I shouldn't have. However it's hard for me to understand how United fans fail to acknowledge that Mourinho failed in his handling of 20 year old Martial. Same way he mishandled Shaw our best LB by a mile.

Regarding this "how good Martial is meant to be", he's meant to be better by people who overrate him. He's an excellent attacker in a team full of turmoil and no leaders. He's been groomed by captains like Valencia and Young. And I feel Rashford suffers from the same reasons. We lack true winners and leaders someone who will put him in his place when he fecks up.
 

Kostov

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
9,399
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Why do people keep bringing this up? This is a thread about Martial, why would other players be scrutinized in here? There's plenty of other places on the forum where people are saying Lukaku, Lingard, Rashford, etc. should be sold, but this one is specifically about Martial and no one is even saying he should be the first to go just that he should be on the list with others instead of given some sort of free pass like he's above the shit we've served up. He's a part of it.
How did you came out with that he's getting a free pass? I think he get as much stick as anyone.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
17,374
Longer term he'll be a No9, whether here or elsewhere. I think his output stats wise is excellent given a) his age and b) Mourinho nipped his playing time in the bud

He's nowhere near the level some people think he is but I personally think he's our most exciting attacking player, I also think he should start ahead of Rashford and Lukaku in the No9 role here. Time will tell if he can become a genuinely top player but with Rashford, I feel we end up just playing long balls through to him because he's quick and with Lukaku, he's just not good enough IMO
 

Amar__

Geriatric lover and empath
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
24,002
Location
Sarajevo
Supports
MK Dons
Well I started this thread after the first leg after he wasn't even a starter(which wasn't my initial argument), and tonight he proved why he didn't start last game. I reckon his covered distance is around the same as de Gea's or Ter Stegen's. He probably made same number of runs as them too.

Shameful attitude, you watch his lack of interest before Messi's pass for Coutinho's goal and you'll realise he isn't really too much interested in winning things.
 

Mainoldo

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
22,965
Him and Pogba got to go. Simple fact they don’t want it. I’ve been there biggest fans too.