I don't think that the quality of two leagues has changed or fluctuated much. People like to construct narratives over any given set of patterns, and all kinds of strange runs of results happen in cup competitions. There was not much of a difference in quality in any given moment over the last few decades.
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Again impressive performance on the Europa League. When was the last time England had 6 teams on the last 8 in both competitions?
The prem is back on top thanks to the appointment of great coaches. Klopp and Pep as we all know have done great jobs at our rivals. Poch ditto and he hasn't lost players in a while. We are experiencing a resurgence after getting rid of the las dinosaur at a big club. This dominance of Europe will be the norm as long as the coaching is of the current standard and the English clubs remain as great financially.
You must be watching a different league. Lower table sides in the prem barely have any talent at all. Watch Cardiff vs Brighton or Burnley vs Newcastle and tell me if you see any quality there. Midtable and above its decent but the rest is trash. Outside of Zaha who's quality at Palace?
What? Spanish teams are clearly looking worse than a few years ago (Atletico and Madrid especially) while english teams are obviously at a higher level.
It doesn't even have to do with the results. You only need to watch them play.
Wan Bissaka, Townsend, Tomkins...
If you think a Burnley vs Newcastle or Cardiff vs Brighton are awful, you should look at a Spal vs Empoli or Girona vs Leganes... maybe you will find a new perspective about how real awful teams look like.
Last season 2 Spanish teams won both European trophies. 3 made the quarters of the CL. 4 made it out the groups of the Europa League and one of them won it.What If they were English? We would be banging on about the "relative strength of the Premier league" just before you chat about domination, remember this is one season out of God Knows how many
6 – Six English teams will appear in the quarter-finals of major European competitions this season for only the second time ever, after 1970-71. Union.
— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe)
— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe)
I said it already last season that the premier league sides had improved a lot and would be ready for europe. We see it this season even more.
Some big clubs like Bayern and Real have declined. PSG should be good, but have mental problems. Juventus and Barca are strong, but the rest not so much.
Man City is sadly the best team around right now although they don't have a Ronaldo or Messi.
Some big clubs like Bayern and Real have declined. PSG should be good, but have mental problems. Juventus and Barca are strong, but the rest not so much.
Man City is sadly the best team around right now although they don't have a Ronaldo or Messi.
I think you could already see the decline last season though. Real Madrid won it, but you could see the squad being weaker than the season before and key players getting older. They had a bit more luck and turned it on in the big moments. Barca also didn't impress last season in europe.
The trend is the same for this season. I think Barca now with Coutinho and Arthur have lifted them a bit in midfield, but they still seem beatable and I am not sure valverde is the man to lead them.
Spain and Germany have become weaker. At both club and national level.
I know football isn't played on paper but when the likes of Fulham who are one of the worst teams in the league and about to be relegated have Schurrle, Vietto, Seri etc it does show that the standard is pretty high.
Nonsense. The top teams in England are the best but the lower to midtable teams at least in Spain are at the same level. Regular La Liga followers here will tell you that.
When someone lists the likes of Tomkins and Townsend as examples of quality then you know they are reaching.
A team with Aspas, Emre Mor and Boufal is about to get relegated in la liga.
Yeah but that's the problem with the PL. All these clubs with too much money buy these washed up players who couldn't cut it at the big clubs instead of doing what the clubs in La Liga do and actually try scout talent, mainly because the La Liga clubs are forced to because of their lower budgets. The recruitment policy in England is just so damn lazy.
Stoke and Sunderland both did the same thing for years and were absolute dogshit and ended up relegated.
It always reminds me of that Sunderland til I die documentary where the scouts have Ibrahimovic down as a potential player they could sign and the chairman looks at them completely baffled
Interestingly when Stoke went down they sold about six players to European quality sides.Yeah but that's the problem with the PL. All these clubs with too much money buy these washed up players who couldn't cut it at the big clubs instead of doing what the clubs in La Liga do and actually try scout talent, mainly because the La Liga clubs are forced to because of their lower budgets. The recruitment policy in England is just so damn lazy.
Stoke and Sunderland both did the same thing for years and were absolute dogshit and ended up relegated.
It always reminds me of that Sunderland til I die documentary where the scouts have Ibrahimovic down as a potential player they could sign and the chairman looks at them completely baffled
Shapiro, Chuppo Moting, Jesé, Grant, N’diyae, Zouma all left to play European football quality teams.
The likes of Muniesa, Wimmer, Imbula all couldn’t get in the squad and now ply their trade in the Bundesliga/ La Liga.
They managed to keep hold of players like Butland, Allen and other recognised internationals.
Last edited:
Surely it's a little bit embarrassing two clubs have been relegated already and it's only April 2nd.
Of course the top half is pretty good this season and we could have two English clubs winning the main european trophies but you'd think with all the money from TV the bottom half teams could at least get some interesting sides and styles going.
I know Eddie Howe gets loads of stick on here and some of it is deserved but at least his Bournemouth team are always involved in interesting games. They're the only bottom half team I enjoy watching. Maybe West Ham aswell if they're still in the bottom half although they are wildly inconsistent.
Fulham have been a joke considering how they were playing when they came up and they spent a huge amount.
There's better quality in bottom half in Spain. Huesca played very well against Real Madrid and Villareal should've beaten Barca just now, that's two teams in the bottom 4. I watched Newcastle last night and they could barely string 3 passes together at Arsenal despite Almiron and Rondon also in good form.
To me more Spanish teams make better use of limited resources to get good 11s and styles going than premier league teams. Villareal are also in quarter finals of europa league.
Of course the top half is pretty good this season and we could have two English clubs winning the main european trophies but you'd think with all the money from TV the bottom half teams could at least get some interesting sides and styles going.
I know Eddie Howe gets loads of stick on here and some of it is deserved but at least his Bournemouth team are always involved in interesting games. They're the only bottom half team I enjoy watching. Maybe West Ham aswell if they're still in the bottom half although they are wildly inconsistent.
Fulham have been a joke considering how they were playing when they came up and they spent a huge amount.
There's better quality in bottom half in Spain. Huesca played very well against Real Madrid and Villareal should've beaten Barca just now, that's two teams in the bottom 4. I watched Newcastle last night and they could barely string 3 passes together at Arsenal despite Almiron and Rondon also in good form.
To me more Spanish teams make better use of limited resources to get good 11s and styles going than premier league teams. Villareal are also in quarter finals of europa league.
Italy is like the premier league...really surprised you think La Liga is like that this season. Real Madrid are way down on normal points total and Barca might not even get to 90 points which is obviously down on recent years.
Samuel Chukwueze was running riot v Barca tonight, only 19 so that's one potential brilliant talent who lives in bottom half of La Liga.
4 clubs in the last 8 compared to 0 for Italy, 0 for France, 1 for Germany (EL), 1 for Netherlands (CL), and 2 for Spain (EL/CL), with our strongest team going out to a domestic rival.
The first time in 35 years we've had 4+ teams across the two major European competitions at this point.
The first time in 35 years we've had 4+ teams across the two major European competitions at this point.
It's gotten better.
Though I don't know if it's as strong as it was in 2008. I think you could easily argue the top 4 that season were the best 4 teams in Europe.
Though I don't know if it's as strong as it was in 2008. I think you could easily argue the top 4 that season were the best 4 teams in Europe.
Man. United of course not as strong as their 2008 version, same for Chelsea. Arsenal similar level to 2008 although they played much better football back then. Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool all better than back then although Liverpool were a very tough team to beat over two legs in that era, similar to Atletico Madrid.
My thread 
Premier league right now is the strongest league all over in my view. Spain has been the better league near the top, but it is clear that Real Madrid have dropped a lot this season. Atletico is not as good as they have been.
Barca is still really strong, but the key for them is Messi. Without him I do think the defense and midfield would not look as good. I didn't expect us to go past them as easy as we did when we played against them. In the end we totally lacked an end product though.
I think once Messi retire the spanish domination will be over. Barca and Real still have money to compete with the best, but the top teams in england can pretty much pay as much now anyway.
Things could turn around again though depending on how things evolve. Still the money that we see in the premier league will make it a harder league to play in and it will grow stronger teams as long as the big clubs spend the money well.
Barca is still really strong, but the key for them is Messi. Without him I do think the defense and midfield would not look as good. I didn't expect us to go past them as easy as we did when we played against them. In the end we totally lacked an end product though.
I think once Messi retire the spanish domination will be over. Barca and Real still have money to compete with the best, but the top teams in england can pretty much pay as much now anyway.
Things could turn around again though depending on how things evolve. Still the money that we see in the premier league will make it a harder league to play in and it will grow stronger teams as long as the big clubs spend the money well.
I'd also say that Barca, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich are significantly less strong than their 2008 sides. Juve stronger for sure.
Easily the strongest league right now.
Wasn’t the case when the thread was made. Same argument that was made at the time for La Liga being crap (top two getting close to a hundred points, lack of competitiveness) is now valid for PL, by the way.
Wasn’t the case when the thread was made. Same argument that was made at the time for La Liga being crap (top two getting close to a hundred points, lack of competitiveness) is now valid for PL, by the way.
Not sure they are. Barca did struggle before Pep and didn't look that strong. Had potential, but far from a dominant force. Real did struggle in europe big time and didn't have Ronaldo. I think Bayern is far more dominant today compared to back then.
Pep, Klopp and Poch have really brought the league up a level. Shame they all manage our rivals.
The EPL's money is now, maybe for the first time, met by adequate managing and coaching skills at more than one club at a time. It's basically the development I among many others have expected when Klopp, Pep, and Mou came to the PL, even though the latter imploded once more.
Yeah I wish the league was as weak as when leicester won it. With a league like that we would be able to win the league with our team at the moment and Ole as our manager.
We just have to hope that Ole gets us to their level with backing from the board.
Thought the Premier League had a sharp declinein quality from 2011 to 2016 as a neutral. It's returning to the 2005-2009 days which imo was the league at its strongest/peak from what I've seen, and indisputably the best league in the world.
Barca won the Champs league and La Liga ten seasons ago and their squad was far, far better than it is now.
Bayern did the domestic treble 11 years ago.
Real Madrid were better than they are right now.
Yes. It is starting to worry me. I think the very worst team in the league (Huddersfield, Fulham, Cardiff) are very bad now.
However I don’t expect Liverpool and City to keep this up. Aberration this year.
Counting which trophies? We do not really have competitions qualifying as a domestic treble.
Barca was weaker than now before Pep. He won the champions league 2009 with them and we won it 2008. Real Madrid was much weaker than these days. They got knocked out very early in europe and was far from a dominant force. Same with Bayern they didn't really do much in europe around that time. It was a few years after that they started becoming a bigger force again.
Real Madrid have had a very poor year, but they struggle against the weight of having been the top side in europe for many years now. Bayern can still do the double too.
I looked at Wiki and saw 3 domestic trophies won. That's the extent of my research!
Not for me chief. I much rather a strong league that’s entertaining to watch than a weak league where a Leicester can win it.
They season before Guardiola took over they had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Eto'o, Henry, Deco, Yaya Toure more. They were not weaker than they are now.
@GhastlyHun will know better than I, are you better now than then?
That season was really fun to watch apart from one side (us). Everyone could pretty much beat everyone and Leicester did manage to go all the way. So many fun games I can remember too with Liverpool and City being smashed by weaker teams and with Mourinho totally imploding.
Having to watch LVG as our manager this season would have been so horrible. It would have turned everyone against him even more because it would make it look even worse with other teams playing well.
Barca about same, they came to Old Trafford in May 2008 with Deco, Ronaldinho and Henry as key attacking options so Guardiola gave them the reboot they needed that summer.
Think Bayern are stronger now, in 2007-08 they played Uefa cup and drew with Bolton.....