Has Ole given up on next season already?

Nikelesh Reddy

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It really is that simple. Just try and get exciting, attacking football back. Get the players playing near their potential. Rest will follow.
Very simple.So simple that 2 managers who are/were way way more qualified than Ole couldn’t get us to play like that over 4 seasons....
 

AJ10

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Thanks, but I think you have read, but not fully understood.

The point about Alex Ferguson is that he did not need the greatest players to produce successful teams. The mark of a good manager (to say nothing of a great one) is the ability to consistently bring the best out of the resources available to them. Managers do this by inspiring, cajoling, encouraging and as necessary chastising their players. That is exactly what Ole should be able to do as well. It is the bread and butter of management at any level. If on the other hand Ole cannot do this, he will not be United manager this time next year, of that you can be sure.

If you are implying that the ability to coax game-raising consistency is a characteristic that was unique to Ferguson, then presumably your are saying that Ole is not up to the job? If that's the case then say so? However, if you do think that Ole is the right man for the job then, yes, he will have to get the players to deliver at and beyond their potential and do so on a regular and consistent basis. From what I can see of the list that you have set out, I think nearly half of that number will likely start next season and Ole will need to get a tune out of them.

Also please point out where I said that improvements were not needed to the team? As I recall, I stated: "Clearly there are a number of areas that need to be urgently strengthened...."

Did you miss that bit?
Understood your point before and the situation is not comparable.

Fergie never needed Worlds best at every position to build successful teams but he did have great to very good then few average players unless you're telling me our great teams consisted of a striker (who couldn't control the ball, couldn't run with the ball/ couldn't pass), Wingers (who couldn't shoot/cross), Midfielders (who couldn't pass, play under pressure) Defence (Stam/Bruce/Rio/Vidic to Smalling/jones/Victor/Young...hmmm, lacked composure, couldn't pass, shat them self under pressure) then Fergie was better than god.

"we have seen what the current squad is capable of when they put their collective minds to it. If the players delivered that same level of commitment over the course of a 38 game season, we would absolutely be in with a shout of winning the title." (from your original post) << Even Fergie wouldn't have been able to beat city's 90+ points total, with our current squad and you think our squad of mediocre players could perform over the course of the season because Fergie did it when he had some great players followed by some very good players then few average players compared to our current mediocre players bar 3/4 good players.

Most of our good players would be considered mediocre/Decent players in Fergie's successful teams and they'd only play small number of games in which consistency can be easy to come but over the 38 games its the Talented players (Ronaldo/Rooney/VDS/Rio/Vidic/Scholes/Giggs not Anderson/Gibson/Saha) who will determine success or failure and at the moment our current squad is filled with Mediocre/Decent players IMO. What we saw earlier was our mediocre players performing over a certain number of games then completely falling off, if they didn't fall off then they wouldn't be considered mediocre players and sadly we have too many of those an not many quality players who can consistently deliver over 38 games.

Next season unless we add quality to our back line/midfield and striker/RW position (:rolleyes:), it will be the same level of consistency as this season where we'll play good for a while then completely fall off as our so called talented players aren't that good and our mediocre players will run out of steam, which is to be expected as they're not good enough and thats Regardless of who is managing them unless you're telling me city/pool have mediocre players bringing them success over the course of a season and not their better players.


When someone says "number of areas" it usually mean 3 or 4 and the players I listed included more than 3 or 4. Its nearly more than half the first team at the moment. oh and I didn't miss that just replied according to your post but to you "number of areas" means more than half of our team.
 

Beagle

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Very simple.So simple that 2 managers who are/were way way more qualified than Ole couldn’t get us to play like that over 4 seasons....
But Ole did. For more than 2 months. And he can now get in a few players to his liking as well. I feel he will do well next season.
 

Minimalist

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Very simple.So simple that 2 managers who are/were way way more qualified than Ole couldn’t get us to play like that over 4 seasons....
It is simple.

What you're suggesting is that it's not easy. And no, it won't be. Lots of hard work to get there.
 

Maticmaker

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Ole's simply being realistic, would fans prefer he told us we were close to making up the difference on City and the Scousers in the PL, when we all know we are miles off just now? No one, I suspect even Ole himself, is sure who will be here next year, although I expect he has a few people in mind to bring in, or through from the youngsters, he does know what he wants, the question is does he know how to get it?

Its clear from Ole's comments he knows exactly where we are at just now, and although he would prefer not to start from here...here is where we are, so that's where he starts. I'm fed up with managers who 'talk the big talk' I want one who can 'walk the big walk...every journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step (Mao), so lets go Ole!
 

lex talionis

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Ole would not have enhanced his credibility had he claimed we’ll be in a position next season to win the PL trophy. That’s not going to be the case and everyone knows it.
 

PSV

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At the start he was talking about how good our players were etc, now the sudden change of tune. I understand our players aren’t as good as he initially thought, but why did he blow his load so early and say all the positive things? Naive!
Look up motivation. How on earth do you think the current players would have responded if he slagged them off from the start? We'd be lucky to make top half. He couldn't make gigantic changes to the squad he had in January (just coming in) so this was more or less what he had to work with until the summer, you wouldn't want to alienate the players then. Now that summer is closer and the season is ending he's being more realistic. But he's not saying "all these players are crap", he's saying that some of the players aren't giving him what he wants and have played their last match hopefully leaving the ones that stays energized by the fact that they're making the "cut" and thus motivating them for the next season at the same time. It just sounds like psychology.

As for Ole, we won't even be close next season. If he can make us compete for top four I'd be thrilled. But most of all I want to see a much more energized approach.
 

FujiVice

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Anything can happen in football. We could challenge next season if we have a group of players willing to do everything for the cause and not down tools. Its unlikely, but it certainly isnt impossible. Who knows what next season will hold. City and Liverpool could both drop off. We could surprise a lot of people. Can I see that happening? I doubt it, but develop a team of players who will work their arse off and we'll be in a much better position next season. One thing we've learned these last 6 years is buying superstars doesnt mean a thing if you dont put the graft in.
 

Mainoldo

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How would you have reacted had we gone for the likes of Robertson, Winaldum and Gomez a few years back?
I’ll answer that if you can tell me how signing James and signing Robertson and Winljdrum are the same?

Did Gomez cost £15m and 22 years old?
 

SaintMuppet

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We should be bloody going for the title next season. We might fail because City are better than us, but we should bloody go for it. That a United manager goes out and say we don't have a chance to compete with Pool and City so we might as well give them the title doesn't sound right.
Sorry, I prefer my managers to be honest and as far from delusional as possible. What possible benefit is derived by a United manager bending over and talking out his behind?
 

Moriarty

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Ole's simply being realistic, would fans prefer he told us we were close to making up the difference on City and the Scousers in the PL, when we all know we are miles off just now? No one, I suspect even Ole himself, is sure who will be here next year, although I expect he has a few people in mind to bring in, or through from the youngsters, he does know what he wants, the question is does he know how to get it?

Its clear from Ole's comments he knows exactly where we are at just now, and although he would prefer not to start from here...here is where we are, so that's where he starts. I'm fed up with managers who 'talk the big talk' I want one who can 'walk the big walk...every journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step (Mao), so lets go Ole!
Lao Tzu actually but I get your point.
 

1988

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It's obviously easy being positive about our chances when things are going well as they did at the start of his interim. Now that he has seen our actual level he can't do anything but be realistic about the job ahead. We need 2-3 good seasons where we set in stone for long term succes. We have to nail our dealings in the windows. My biggest concern is still not Solskjær. It's the people above him. We haven't seen any signs of logical football thinking with Woodward at the helm of things. We need to sign smart and sell smart.
 
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Yakuza_devils

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It's a fecking joke. Spouting this shit before season even started, no players being signed, haven't had pre season to work on fitness and tactics, no strategy being finalised, etc etc.

He should instead demands Ed for the players required to challenge and says positive things to motivate the players (current and new incoming players).
 

bosnian_red

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Of course he hasnt. It's just beyond unrealistic to claim we can challenge for the title next season. We have been so far off the top team for the past 6 years, and especially now that Liverpool and City are the 2 best sides in the world, it's crazy to expect a title challenge. We can spend 400m perfectly this summer and we wont win the title or get particularly close to the points totals that City got in the last 2 years or Liverpool this year. We are going to have a transition season (need one in the positive sense) at least for one year, and then push on. Even if Klopp took over tomorrow and could spend £250m per season, we wouldnt challenge for the title for a couple of years. That's just the reality. Takes time to get the right players gradually, but also develop your team and the team to play together, while maintaining a good balance in the team of promoting youth and building a top team. That's something we've been awful at. Either we take on too many expensive, older players so leave no room for any youth progression, or we have no options and rely on youth. It'll take 2 years of huge turnover in both years to transform that.
 

Random Task

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Ole's been in charge for going on 5 months. Enough time to make a fair assessment of the squad's overall capabilities and he has arrived at the same conclusion as the rest of us; it's a shambles. Many of them lack the basic core essentials such as fitness, motivation, ambition, commitment, and willpower. It's full of poisonous personalities who crave media attention and who down tools whenever they feel it necessary. Overpaid, underworked, spoiled brats the lot of them. They absolutely have to go.

Ole is aware of the many issues within the squad, just as we are, he knows it could take any number of years to remove the unwanted players and replace them with those who will put the well-being of the club above their own needs. As it was during his day under Fergie. He wants the fans to keep their expectations in check for the next year or two, giving him enough time to work with the existing players within the squad, those small few who he wishes to remain at the club, and begin building a proper title-challenging team.

He needs time and patience in order to achieve that goal.
 

bosnian_red

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It's a fecking joke. Spouting this shit before season even started, no players being signed, haven't had pre season to work on fitness and tactics, no strategy being finalised, etc etc.

He should instead demands Ed for the players required to challenge and says positive things to motivate the players (current and new incoming players).
Klopp could come in and spend 500m and we wouldnt reach the heights that City or Liverpool did this season. People demanding otherwise are part of the problem. We have to get back to the top, but be fecking reasonable here. To expect us to jump from the shit we've seen this season, to the level that City and Liverpool have been at for over a year now, is just crazy.
 

ArjenIsM3

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Klopp could come in and spend 500m and we wouldnt reach the heights that City or Liverpool did this season. People demanding otherwise are part of the problem. We have to get back to the top, but be fecking reasonable here. To expect us to jump from the shit we've seen this season, to the level that City and Liverpool have been at for over a year now, is just crazy.
Let's hope more of the caf will start to realise this or terrible threads like these will keep popping up.
 

crossy1686

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Let's hope more of the caf will start to realise this or terrible threads like these will keep popping up.
Agreed. Makes me laugh when threads like this pop up, 'Let's all get angry at what the manager said knowing we'd be equally angry if he said the opposite!'.

If people bothered to get angry about the way we're run and started boycotting over the last 6 years we might actually be in a position to challenge for the title...
 

ArjenIsM3

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Agreed. Makes me laugh when threads like this pop up, 'Let's all get angry at what the manager said knowing we'd be equally angry if he said the opposite!'.

If people bothered to get angry about the way we're run and started boycotting over the last 6 years we might actually be in a position to challenge for the title...
If only..
 

Tom Cato

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Liverpool just did that this season.
Liverpool signed Van Dijk, which is the entire reason their defense went from meh to godlike. One of the best signings from Liverpool the last 20 years.

We're going shopping for talent this year. I'm so fkn hyped for this summer, its going to be great.
 

crossy1686

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Liverpool signed Van Dijk, which is the entire reason their defense went from meh to godlike. One of the best signings from Liverpool the last 20 years.

We're going shopping for talent this year. I'm so fkn hyped for this summer, its going to be great.
This is a good point. It only takes one person with the right kind of leadership ability to transform a team.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Klopp could come in and spend 500m and we wouldnt reach the heights that City or Liverpool did this season. People demanding otherwise are part of the problem. We have to get back to the top, but be fecking reasonable here. To expect us to jump from the shit we've seen this season, to the level that City and Liverpool have been at for over a year now, is just crazy.
Do you think all the fans are fecking idiots thinking we can challenge for the title next season easily but we should not give up when the fight haven't even started. It's embarrassing for the biggest club in the world.

Many fans are reasonable and understand where we are now. Hence, many fans expectations are TOP 4 and attacking football next season.

The critical point here is that as Manager of Man Utd he has to be positive and motivate everyone at the club to perform beyond expectations and not spouting this shit before the current season even end. He has lots of work to do yet in the summer and gauge the situation.

What happened to the gung ho Ole when he was first appointed? People says he gets it and understand our club? Why 180 degree turn now?
 

JustAGuest

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It's a fecking joke. Spouting this shit before season even started, no players being signed, haven't had pre season to work on fitness and tactics, no strategy being finalised, etc etc.

He should instead demands Ed for the players required to challenge and says positive things to motivate the players (current and new incoming players).
That worked out well for Mourinho with signings like Matic and Sanchez who both are already considered deadwood... Some long term thinking is absolutely what the club needs right now.
 

Yakuza_devils

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That worked out well for Mourinho with signings like Matic and Sanchez who both are already considered deadwood... Some long term thinking is absolutely what the club needs right now.
Agreed. Ed has to act swiftly to appoint DOF to revamp our structure for major rebuild of the whole team/club.
 

nameischarles

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Some fans need to get their heads checked in. There was nothing wrong with his comments, they were realistic and honest as he can be.

I can’t believe some fans would rather hear him say false optimism when clearly we all know we aren’t at that level and we have a long rebuilding process ahead.

Then again even if he did say rosy things they would probably still moan that Ole is way over his head.
 

bosnian_red

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Do you think all the fans are fecking idiots thinking we can challenge for the title next season easily but we should not give up when the fight haven't even started. It's embarrassing for the biggest club in the world.

Many fans are reasonable and understand where we are now. Hence, many fans expectations are TOP 4 and attacking football next season.

The critical point here is that as Manager of Man Utd he has to be positive and motivate everyone at the club to perform beyond expectations and not spouting this shit before the current season even end. He has lots of work to do yet in the summer and gauge the situation.

What happened to the gung ho Ole when he was first appointed? People says he gets it and understand our club? Why 180 degree turn now?
It serves nobody any benefit to flat out lie and seem delusional. He didn't say anything crazy or negative even. He said that he doesn't expect a title challenge from a team that is 30 points off the top 2 this season. He said it's important to focus on changing the culture at the club back what it's supposed to be, it's important to develop as a side and get our identity back first. Which is of course 100% what we should be doing. In fact I'd be more worried if Ole and the board felt they could win the title right away, and started splashing the cash on big name players this summer to get us back there asap. That's not the way to do it at United. Spending 100m on Koulibaly, bringing in Bale, spending big money on the likes of Kroos and whoever else would give us on paper a really good squad of course. But it's entirely the wrong way to go about it and would only be a 1-2 year solution and we're back where we started (and probably still wouldn't be enough to win the title ahead of City/Liverpool right now), just out hundreds of million. We need to take our time with it and not try to do it in one season, because rushing the process is exactly what fecks up the whole process.
 

bosnian_red

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Liverpool just did that this season.
Liverpool developed as a team under Klopp for years with smart signings and excellent coaching. They got to a point where they peaked unless they fixed a few problem positions with new players, which they did by signing Van Dijk and Alisson mainly. It wasn't a one summer thing for them. We are basically where they were after Rodgers. Squad is a mess, but some quality players, but a lot that just aren't suited to us. We hope Ole can have even close to the impact Klopp had for them, but that needs a lot of time, patience, trust and support in the transfer market, both in terms of getting rid of players, and bringing them in. There's 10-15 players in our squad that really aren't going to be part of any successful one, regardless of manager. We just have to be realistic and take it one step at a time to turn ourselves around.
 

Random Task

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Do you think all the fans are fecking idiots thinking we can challenge for the title next season easily but we should not give up when the fight haven't even started. It's embarrassing for the biggest club in the world.

Many fans are reasonable and understand where we are now. Hence, many fans expectations are TOP 4 and attacking football next season.

The critical point here is that as Manager of Man Utd he has to be positive and motivate everyone at the club to perform beyond expectations and not spouting this shit before the current season even end. He has lots of work to do yet in the summer and gauge the situation.

What happened to the gung ho Ole when he was first appointed? People says he gets it and understand our club? Why 180 degree turn now?
Multiple injuries and a squad-wide drop in performance levels occured as a result of Ole's high-pressing, fast attacking system. Thus it was not sustainable for long periods of time.
 

redmanx

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If you think we have a hope in challenging for the league next year then you need your head looking at
Like most of us I want United to win everything and in my dreams they do, but real life has a nasty habit of intruding on them. Realistically next season a top 4 place is the best we can expect, I hope for more but hope tends to bite you on the bum. Everything depends on how the players perform and if they perform. Hopefully, that word again, Ole will have a major clear out and bring in much needed new players who, hopefully, again, have the right sort of attitude to play for Manchester United. A decent Cup run would be great, then theres the Euro thing, not what we wanted but beggars cant be choosers. Having a good 2019/20 season will, hopefully, again, set us up for a more realistic challenge on all fronts the season after. All we can do is support our Club and team.....and hope.
 

redmanx

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Understood your point before and the situation is not comparable.

Fergie never needed Worlds best at every position to build successful teams but he did have great to very good then few average players unless you're telling me our great teams consisted of a striker (who couldn't control the ball, couldn't run with the ball/ couldn't pass), Wingers (who couldn't shoot/cross), Midfielders (who couldn't pass, play under pressure) Defence (Stam/Bruce/Rio/Vidic to Smalling/jones/Victor/Young...hmmm, lacked composure, couldn't pass, shat them self under pressure) then Fergie was better than god.

"we have seen what the current squad is capable of when they put their collective minds to it. If the players delivered that same level of commitment over the course of a 38 game season, we would absolutely be in with a shout of winning the title." (from your original post) << Even Fergie wouldn't have been able to beat city's 90+ points total, with our current squad and you think our squad of mediocre players could perform over the course of the season because Fergie did it when he had some great players followed by some very good players then few average players compared to our current mediocre players bar 3/4 good players.

Most of our good players would be considered mediocre/Decent players in Fergie's successful teams and they'd only play small number of games in which consistency can be easy to come but over the 38 games its the Talented players (Ronaldo/Rooney/VDS/Rio/Vidic/Scholes/Giggs not Anderson/Gibson/Saha) who will determine success or failure and at the moment our current squad is filled with Mediocre/Decent players IMO. What we saw earlier was our mediocre players performing over a certain number of games then completely falling off, if they didn't fall off then they wouldn't be considered mediocre players and sadly we have too many of those an not many quality players who can consistently deliver over 38 games.

Next season unless we add quality to our back line/midfield and striker/RW position (:rolleyes:), it will be the same level of consistency as this season where we'll play good for a while then completely fall off as our so called talented players aren't that good and our mediocre players will run out of steam, which is to be expected as they're not good enough and thats Regardless of who is managing them unless you're telling me city/pool have mediocre players bringing them success over the course of a season and not their better players.


When someone says "number of areas" it usually mean 3 or 4 and the players I listed included more than 3 or 4. Its nearly more than half the first team at the moment. oh and I didn't miss that just replied according to your post but to you "number of areas" means more than half of our team.
SAF, like all the best managers, built TEAMS, teams who played together, fought together, and sometimes fought with each other. Yes there were "stars" super stars even, and there were the "water carriers" but they had a common goal, to bring success to Manchester United, they were a TEAM.
 

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Saying we’re going to win the league next year would be down right deluded. He’s just keeping it real.
He didn't say 'we won't win it', though...

He said, to even challenge will be 'miraculous'.

It's negative, uninspiring, expectation lowering spin.

If the same type of talk is happening in the dressing room, expect the best Utd players to be leaving - and don't expect players that want to win to be joining.
 

redmanx

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Sorry, I prefer my managers to be honest and as far from delusional as possible. What possible benefit is derived by a United manager bending over and talking out his behind?
Im sure Ole will be "going for the title" in his heart but in his head he knows that's way beyond us next season, maybe for a couple of seasons, but he'll expect the players to play like every match is a cup final, to show they really want it as much as he and us supporters do.
 

Mr.Plow

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It's as if he's given up trying to prove himself since he got the job full time. Now all he does is bemoan our lack of quality and accepts loss after loss.
 

Yakuza_devils

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.[/QUOTE]
It serves nobody any benefit to flat out lie and seem delusional. He didn't say anything crazy or negative even. He said that he doesn't expect a title challenge from a team that is 30 points off the top 2 this season. He said it's important to focus on changing the culture at the club back what it's supposed to be, it's important to develop as a side and get our identity back first. Which is of course 100% what we should be doing. In fact I'd be more worried if Ole and the board felt they could win the title right away, and started splashing the cash on big name players this summer to get us back there asap. That's not the way to do it at United. Spending 100m on Koulibaly, bringing in Bale, spending big money on the likes of Kroos and whoever else would give us on paper a really good squad of course. But it's entirely the wrong way to go about it and would only be a 1-2 year solution and we're back where we started (and probably still wouldn't be enough to win the title ahead of City/Liverpool right now), just out hundreds of million. We need to take our time with it and not try to do it in one season, because rushing the process is exactly what fecks up the whole process.
I am totally with you and understand your points. The process of rebuild takes proper planning and years to succeed especially when we are in such a shambles now.

However, the point was our manager could say things differently or choose more appropriate time to say something which will have big effect not only to the current squad but to the new players as well. This also worsen current negativity around the club where other TOP 6 clubs are performing well.
 

AJ10

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SAF, like all the best managers, built TEAMS, teams who played together, fought together, and sometimes fought with each other. Yes there were "stars" super stars even, and there were the "water carriers" but they had a common goal, to bring success to Manchester United, they were a TEAM.
Yes, everyone knows that but your point?
 

Siorac

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Im sure Ole will be "going for the title" in his heart but in his head he knows that's way beyond us next season, maybe for a couple of seasons, but he'll expect the players to play like every match is a cup final, to show they really want it as much as he and us supporters do.
Not going for the title is one thing but if we really will be competing with Newcastle and Watford... then might as well not bother anymore, let's just give up.