Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[MrEleson]

Here's what Simeone had to say about both players.

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Similar to when SAF said that "Ronaldo could score a hat-trick for Stockport" but he didn't think Messi could do the same.

Basically emphasising that as good as Messi is, he needs a particular system and brand of football to produce his optimum level: which is what he has had at Barcelona his entire career. He needs players that are tailor made to fit around him. Ronaldo is tactically more flexible and can play in numerous styles and set-ups and still be effective. He can play possession football to a good level, counter-attacking football; longballs and crosses into the box - he can still stamp his authority all over the game whereas Messi would be rendered ineffectual if such dynamics were employed. Even playing for stoke; Ronaldo could probably still find a way to be world class and would make the most of the hoof-ball they stereotypically play with his speed, heading ability & off the ball movement to capitalise on hoofs forward and long-throwings into the box.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Here's what Simeone had to say about both players.

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— Twitter API (@user) date

Similar to when SAF said that "Ronaldo could score a hat-trick for Stockport" but he didn't think Messi could do the same.

Basically emphasising that as good as Messi is, he needs a particular system and brand of football to produce his optimum level: which is what he has had at Barcelona his entire career. He needs players that are tailor made to fit around him. Ronaldo is tactically more flexible and can play in numerous styles and set-ups and still be effective. He can play possession football to a good level, counter-attacking football; longballs and crosses into the box - he can still stamp his authority all over the game whereas Messi would be rendered ineffectual if such dynamics were employed. Even playing for stoke; Ronaldo could probably still find a way to be world class and would make the most of the hoof-ball they stereotypically play with his speed, heading ability & off the ball movement to capitalise on hoofs forward and long-throwings into the box.

But how true is it? Firstly Messi has stayed at the same club all his life, with a clear dna and emphasis on possession yet saying that Valverde Tito Martino Enrique are different managers to Guardiola, some with more leniency. to counter attacking football, and Messi has shone with all of them. Messi would be good in any system really, why would for example a player like Ozi thrive in a counter attacking system at Madrid due to his dribbling and passing and Messi would not, does counter attacking football not rely on fast paced attacks, dribbling, carrying the ball and finishing?

 

[MrEleson]

But how true is it? Firstly Messi has stayed at the same club all his life, with a clear dna and emphasis on possession yet saying that Valverde Tito Martino Enrique are different managers to Guardiola, some with more leniency. to counter attacking football, and Messi has shone with all of them. Messi would be good in any system really, why would for example a player like Ozi thrive in a counter attacking system at Madrid due to his dribbling and passing and Messi would not, does counter attacking football not rely on fast paced attacks, dribbling, carrying the ball and finishing?

I'm not speaking strictly on counter-attacking football. Ofcourse, Messi still excels to a good level at that (not as well as Ronaldo) but it's in situations where he is surrounded by teammates that can't play his way is what I mean. Like for example, he typically picks up the ball on the wing and dribbles inside and then plays 1-2s with the forwards or other midfielders to then take a shot or play a through pass to an on-rushing Alba. What if he was in a situation where his teammates didn't know him like their names to be able to produce these combinations effectively or to a good standard as they're simply not good enough for him to combine with? Which is why I gave the Stoke example.

Messi has a particular style of playing while Ronaldo simply doesn't. The system adapts to Messi while conversely Ronaldo adapts to the system which is why he can do better for inferior teams.

 

[2mufc0]

So you basically cant rebut any of the points i made regarding said Gerd? Why isnt he regarded up there with Diego and Cruyff despute a superior resume and goals record, in fact, probably the most accomplished in history? Your answer would be appreciated.

Firstly you have no idea how I rate all of these players and I'm not going to get dragged into a back and forth about ranking the best players of all time. And FYI I don't rank numerically I prefer to group them in tiers because some players you can't seperate and are not necessarily better than the other. So it's useless asking me why x player is better than x, when a lot rank in the same level for me.

Secondly, if you want to know how I judge players on an all time level you can search through my posts in this thread as I've talked about it a bit when it comes to Messi, I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself.

And for what it's worth, to give you hints I actually used to believe Messi was the better player but since his circumstances/conditions have changed and the last 5 years have shown he's a fair weather player, he cannot be considered at the very top.

 

[Jericho]

What mentality? Ronaldo did nothing last time he came against a Liverpool defence, what mentality makes Karius fumble the ball twice, or Bale score the greatest goal ever scored in a Champions League final? What mythical mentality is that, and why didn't the same mentality help a way more experienced Juventus side when they came up against a very young Ajax side who had never made any impact in Champions league football?

How exactly would he spur them on in that case, afterall the first leg if not for Messi Barcelona would have already been out? I think what people are now doing is bringing up things we can't quantify to make these players equal, because the eye test simply says it how it is, Messi is an equal scorer and a far better playmaker, a better footballer simply, so people are left arguing things like mentality, how many times he has won the CL, how tall he is, how good he is in the air, small trivial things to find any ground to gain in this argument.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I'm sure there are some things that Ronaldo is better than Messi at. But I don't know how anyone can watch them for 90 minutes and think that Ronaldo plays better than Messi.

And the mentality argument is a bit odd. Barca get knocked out of the CL, so Messi has a weak mentality? Does that mean Ronaldo has weak mentality because Juve got knocked out?

 

[I_live_cement]

You also exaggerate what Messi did, he played a 1-2 to get past some players and accelerated past some, hardly ‘dribbling directly through from halfway line’.

Yeah he just accelerated past some players...with the ball fecking glued to his foot.

A freakish, unique ability that only Maradona came close to, in my mind.

 

[Rito]

The thing is he's not funny at all.

Coming from the resident caf clown, I accept the verdict.

 

[RochaRoja]

I put him 5 to 10 same as Messi.

 

[wub1234]

Mate, you’re literally the person who a few months ago said Gareth Bale was a better football player than Cristiano Ronaldo for fecks sake...

The tone of that post

As I've said numerous times, I believe it was the right time for Real Madrid to let Ronaldo go, and Bale was potentially better at that time due to age disparity. As it's turned out, Bale is too injury prone to step up, but I still don't think it was the wrong decision to let Ronaldo go, as the Real team is well past its best, and they need to completely rebuild. They cannot afford to be reliant on someone who will turn 35 next season, and who is clearly no longer the player that he was, albeit he is still an effective forward. To get €100 million for Ronaldo was a great deal. Leaving the commercial side out of the equation, clearly he is massively overpriced at that fee.

Also, what I said in that post was that virtually any forward would score as many goals as Ronaldo in that Real team. The Real team has seriously declined since then, but what happened in the very next season? Ronaldo went to Juventus, and scored nowhere near as many goals as he had at Real, and was even outscored by Benzema (30 goals to 28). Bear in mind as well that nearly one-quarter of Ronaldo's goals this season were penalties. He only scored 22 from open play. Not bad, but nothing special. Benzema outscored Ronaldo in open play by 27 to 22. Messi outscored Ronaldo in open play by 43 to 22, nearly double the amount of goals, and as we all know Messi also contributes way, way more in general play than Ronaldo.

Now no-one would suggest that Benzema is better than Ronaldo, or even remotely close, but even in a massively struggling Real side, he still scored more than Ronaldo. That was my original point. Ronaldo is not that difficult to replace, and had Real played anywhere near the same level this season that they did last, even a massively inferior forward such as Benzema would have been close to his goals total.

What happened this season completely vindicated everything that I said. Whereas you said that Ronaldo would go to Juventus, score tonnes of goals, as many as he did at Real Madrid, dominate the Champions League, etc, none of which happened. He had a completely mediocre season.

I'll ignore the fact that, as usual, you weren't able to answer my question.

 

[Tostao_80]

I put him 5 to 10 same as Messi.

My point is its a lazy argument downplaying Muller to point score when he's one of the best footballers of all time.

You put Gerd Muller and Leo Messi in the same tier as footballers? Wow, Cristiano fans stoop to a new low. Messi is widely regarded as one of the 3 greatest players of all time, if not the greatest. Gerd Muller is NEVER talked of in that realm. Infact, hes not even considered the best German of all time by many.
Lost for words.

 

[11101]

"What I consider is that in a team with fewer solutions, Ronaldo is a better fit because he provides many solutions," Simeone began.

"For a team which focuses on football, Messi is much better.

"We are talking about very fine margins of how a team plays," he stated.

"Cristiano can decide a game in a different way, he doesn't need ten attacks. He scored two headers against us and we were out," the Atletico boss said.

Simeone went on to speak of the subtle differences between the two world superstars.

"Both need a team but the differences are very small.

"Lionel, in an attacking team always plays better. The other [Ronaldo] can win a game in two actions, he simplifies the situations.

"Messi is mesmerising because he plays elaborate football.

"Leo plays in a team that compliments all of his talent. He always ends up finding solutions," he concluded.

This is pretty much spot on, which is unsurprising considering it came from a top manager, rather than some of the unhinged fanboys in this thread.

For me it makes Messi the better player but Ronaldo the more effective player, and neither of them quite the GOAT they were once proclaimed to be.

 

[2mufc0]

You put Gerd Muller and Leo Messi in the same tier as footballers? Wow, Cristiano fans stoop to a new low. Messi is widely regarded as one of the 3 greatest players of all time, if not the greatest. Gerd Muller is NEVER talked of in that realm. Infact, hes not even considered the best German of all time by many.
Lost for words.

By who? The only people that claim he's no. 1 are his unhinged fans and the younger generation.

 

[Zehner]

"What I consider is that in a team with fewer solutions, Ronaldo is a better fit because he provides many solutions," Simeone began.

"For a team which focuses on football, Messi is much better.

"We are talking about very fine margins of how a team plays," he stated.

"Cristiano can decide a game in a different way, he doesn't need ten attacks. He scored two headers against us and we were out," the Atletico boss said.

Simeone went on to speak of the subtle differences between the two world superstars.

"Both need a team but the differences are very small.

"Lionel, in an attacking team always plays better. The other [Ronaldo] can win a game in two actions, he simplifies the situations.

"Messi is mesmerising because he plays elaborate football.

"Leo plays in a team that compliments all of his talent. He always ends up finding solutions," he concluded.

That's pretty much the best summary I read.

 

[Rito]

You put Gerd Muller and Leo Messi in the same tier as footballers? Wow, Cristiano fans stoop to a new low. Messi is widely regarded as one of the 3 greatest players of all time, if not the greatest. Gerd Muller is NEVER talked of in that realm. Infact, hes not even considered the best German of all time by many.
Lost for words.

In your fanboy head.

 

[RedRonaldo]

"What I consider is that in a team with fewer solutions, Ronaldo is a better fit because he provides many solutions," Simeone began.

"For a team which focuses on football, Messi is much better.

"We are talking about very fine margins of how a team plays," he stated.

"Cristiano can decide a game in a different way, he doesn't need ten attacks. He scored two headers against us and we were out," the Atletico boss said.

Simeone went on to speak of the subtle differences between the two world superstars.

"Both need a team but the differences are very small.

"Lionel, in an attacking team always plays better. The other [Ronaldo] can win a game in two actions, he simplifies the situations.

"Messi is mesmerising because he plays elaborate football.

"Leo plays in a team that compliments all of his talent. He always ends up finding solutions," he concluded.

That's probably one of the most neutral and fair comment I've read about the two.

 

[Bole Top]

In your fanboy head.

he's right actually. vast majority of people, younger or older, consider him to be in top 3 ever. you act like he's talking about Sneijder.

 

[Rito]

he's right actually. vast majority of people, younger or older, consider him to be in top 3 ever. you act like he's talking about Sneijder.

Pardon me for not making it specific. He's NOT widely considered as the greatest of all time, as suggested in that particular post.

 

[Pocho]

Coming from the resident caf clown, I accept the verdict.

Try harder, still not funny.

 

[wub1234]

Pardon me for not making it specific. He's NOT widely considered as the greatest of all time, as suggested in that particular post.

He didn't say that, he said he's widely regarded as one of the three greatest of all-time, if not the greatest. Basically, exactly the same thing that I've said numerous times because it's obviously true.

I wouldn't even say that Messi is 'widely regarded' as one of the three greatest of all-time, I would say he's almost unanimously considered that. In fact, literally the only people I've encountered who would challenge this are those who can't accept that Messi is better than Ronaldo.

 

[sullydnl]

By who? The only people that claim he's no. 1 are his unhinged fans and the younger generation.

A quick google search tells me he's been described as the greatest of all time by fellow pros like Hazard, Rooney, Terry, David Luiz, Turan, David Silva, Gundogan, Marco Reus, etc., former pros like Karl Heinz Rumminege, Ossie Ardilles, Albert Ferrer, Carlos Bianchi, Marcial Pina, Souness, Chivarlet, Lineker, Roy Keane, Koeman etc.

I'm not sure why you're acting like it's some strange opinion when it's a relatively common one. Let alone him being one of the three greatest of all time, which is what the poster you're quoting actually said.

Also on a side note, "the younger generation" you're reffering to must be well into their thirties at this stage? It's not like it's some tiny faction of football fans. Ain't that young anymore.

 

[2mufc0]

A quick google search tells me he's been described as the greatest of all time by fellow pros like Hazard, Rooney, Terry, David Luiz, Turan, David Silva, Gundogan, Marco Reus, etc., former pros like Karl Heinz Rumminege, Ossie Ardilles, Albert Ferrer, Carlos Bianchi, Marcial Pina, Souness, Chivarlet, Lineker, Roy Keane, Koeman etc.

I'm not sure why you're acting like it's some strange opinion when it's a relatively common one. Let alone him being one of the three greatest of all time, which is what the poster you're quoting actually said.

Also on a side note, "the younger generation" you're reffering to must be well into their thirties at this stage? It's not like it's some tiny faction of football fans. Ain't that young anymore.

Do we really want to play the quote game? These footballers change thier minds overnight for example Keane in this article says Ronaldo is better:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...-as-he-nominates-a-clear-winner-37033752.html

It would also be interesting to see when those players said he was the best, I would wager it would have been in the 09-11 period when Barca were dominant. The tide has been turning for a while now and by speaking to people I know they are not convinced he's the best ever anymore.

Imo Messi's legacy is taking a battering over recent years with his constant no shoes on the biggest stages.

 

[sullydnl]

Do we really want to play the quote game? These footballers change thier minds overnight for example Keane in this article says Ronaldo is better:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...-as-he-nominates-a-clear-winner-37033752.html

It would also be interesting to see when those players said he was the best, I would wager it would have been in the 09-11 period when Barca were dominant. The tide has been turning for a while now and by speaking to people I know they are not convinced he's the best ever anymore.

Imo Messi's legacy is taking a battering over recent years with his constant no shoes on the biggest stages.

I'm not really playing the quote games. You asked who thinks Messi was one of the three greatest ever, I gave you a list of people who outright said he was the best ever. If you want to argue that they've changed their mind since to the point where he isn't even in their top three then that's fine, you can find those quotes or take it up with them. You're the one who asked, after all.

My point is that it's clearly not some outlandish opinion restricted to children and the disturbed, as you suggested. Unless you want to add a third "people who say he is even though I can psychically tell they don't really mean it" category.

 

[Peyroteo]

As I've said numerous times, I believe it was the right time for Real Madrid to let Ronaldo go, and Bale was potentially better at that time due to age disparity. As it's turned out, Bale is too injury prone to step up, but I still don't think it was the wrong decision to let Ronaldo go, as the Real team is well past its best, and they need to completely rebuild. They cannot afford to be reliant on someone who will turn 35 next season, and who is clearly no longer the player that he was, albeit he is still an effective forward. To get €100 million for Ronaldo was a great deal. Leaving the commercial side out of the equation, clearly he is massively overpriced at that fee.

Also, what I said in that post was that virtually any forward would score as many goals as Ronaldo in that Real team. The Real team has seriously declined since then, but what happened in the very next season? Ronaldo went to Juventus, and scored nowhere near as many goals as he had at Real, and was even outscored by Benzema (30 goals to 28). Bear in mind as well that nearly one-quarter of Ronaldo's goals this season were penalties. He only scored 22 from open play. Not bad, but nothing special. Benzema outscored Ronaldo in open play by 27 to 22. Messi outscored Ronaldo in open play by 43 to 22, nearly double the amount of goals, and as we all know Messi also contributes way, way more in general play than Ronaldo.

Now no-one would suggest that Benzema is better than Ronaldo, or even remotely close, but even in a massively struggling Real side, he still scored more than Ronaldo. That was my original point. Ronaldo is not that difficult to replace, and had Real played anywhere near the same level this season that they did last, even a massively inferior forward such as Benzema would have been close to his goals total.

What happened this season completely vindicated everything that I said. Whereas you said that Ronaldo would go to Juventus, score tonnes of goals, as many as he did at Real Madrid, dominate the Champions League, etc, none of which happened. He had a completely mediocre season.

I'll ignore the fact that, as usual, you weren't able to answer my question.

Ahahahhaahahahahah... June of 2018:

As it stands now, Bale is at least as good as Ronaldo, probably better, and certainly younger and a better long-term prospect.

Mate, you said Gareth Bale was a better football player than Cristiano Ronaldo and you feel vindicated? I’m sorry, in a thread full of bad arguments you’re genuinely the worst poster here. It’s just so dumb...

How can someone who clearly knows absolutely nothing about football be the most pretentious poster here?

100 million was also a terrible price ffs... that’s why Juve are happy with it and Madrid fans not happy at all. Makes sense. What a mediocre season

I’ll even post that quote... I’m sure you’ll somehow think the absolute nonsense and frankly complete stupidity of your posts have somehow been vindicated despite getting ABSOLUTELY NOTHING RIGHT.

If Real have any sense they will get rid of Ronaldo, not allow him to sign some ridiculous contract that completely overvalues him, and move heaven and earth to get Neymar. Then they would have the second best player in the world, behind Messi obviously.

Bale would produce as good, or possibly better, performances and results than Ronaldo if he was selected regularly, as he has done so when Ronaldo was rested. 21 goals in 39 appearances from the bench. If Bale was indulged to the degree that Ronaldo is, played every game, was allowed to take every free-kick, virtually every set-piece was aimed at him, he sulked every time someone else scored a goal or shot instead of passing to him, then I'm confident Bale would score as many as Ronaldo.

Except that Bale wouldn't do some of those things because he's a more mature human being.

BTW don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that over his career as a whole Bale is as good as Ronaldo. Obviously this is not the case, Ronaldo has been the second best player in the world over the last ten years. As it stands now, he is at least as good as Ronaldo, probably better, and certainly younger and a better long-term prospect.

I'm going to love to see how you pretend you still stand behind the stupidest post that's ever been made here. Please do. You feel this season has vindicated you opinions so please go for it.

You can pretend you said Bale would score the same goals as Ronaldo... but that’s not what you said. You said he was a better player. Stop blatantly lying, after having the stupidest football opinions in redcafe history the least you could do was own up to it rather than pretend you didn’t say what you said and that you were right all along.

Also, I love how inconsistent your logic is. If Messi is better because he scores more and is more involved... then why is Benzema not as good or nowhere near as good? Ronaldo scored 42 and 44 goals for Madrid with penalties in the last two seasons, Benzema scored 30 without penalties. Given by your own logic that Benzema is very involved in the build up and Ronaldo isn’t... why is Ronaldo a better player than Benzema then?

Or do your parameters to rate players change to something not completely stupid as soon as you’re comparing other players?

Also, like I’ve told you 10 different times. Making every single one of your posts four times the size of what they need to be doesn’t somehow make them logical. This isn’t a university paper where you need 1000 words to pass. Long posts are fine, but please for the love of God stop making completely irrelevant statements and try to fill it out to reach 1000 words on every single post.

 

[wub1234]

Also, like I’ve told you 10 different times.

Sorry, I didn't realise that I had to do what you said! I didn't realise that you were one of the moderators! Here's me thinking you have no authority to tell me what to do!

In my post, I said the following:

If Real have any sense they will get rid of Ronaldo, not allow him to sign some ridiculous contract that completely overvalues him, and move heaven and earth to get Neymar.

Still stand by that, because Neymar is clearly a better player than Ronaldo now.

Bale would produce as good, or possibly better, performances and results than Ronaldo if he was selected regularly, as he has done so when Ronaldo was rested. 21 goals in 39 appearances from the bench. If Bale was indulged to the degree that Ronaldo is, played every game, was allowed to take every free-kick, virtually every set-piece was aimed at him, he sulked every time someone else scored a goal or shot instead of passing to him, then I'm confident Bale would score as many as Ronaldo.

I didn't say Bale is a better player, or should be judged as a better player over his career. In fact, I specifically said this:

BTW don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that over his career as a whole Bale is as good as Ronaldo. Obviously this is not the case, Ronaldo has been the second best player in the world over the last ten years.

However, we cannot judge this because he's been injured, and he probably won't ever recover from these injuries.

What we do know is that in a worse team than Ronaldo played in, who have really been struggling, Karim Benzema has scored more goals than Ronaldo this season. If he'd been indulged to the same extent as Ronaldo was as Real, in the team from last season, he probably wouldn't have been far off in terms of goals.

This is hypothetical, but what we know for certain is that he's outscored Ronaldo this season, and outscored him quite comfortably in open play. And I'm sure you would have said last season, when trying to elevate 'Ronaldo's CL win', that Benzema is useless, and that it was a miracle that Ronaldo single-handedly won Real the CL with such a terrible team, and as useless a strike partner as Benzema.

We also know that Juventus paid €100 million for a forward who only performed marginally better than Higuain did last season, and worse than Higuain did two years ago. Furthermore, the Juventus team performed worse than it did with Ronaldo than with Higuain playing. That is simply a fact.

And he's 35 next season, and you think paying €100 million for him is a good deal! Not only that, but you're still clinging on to the delusional idea that he's better than Messi!

Not that surprising, because you were the one who posted on here that teams don't want players like Messi! I have neither the time nor inclination to dig that post up, but that was a classic if people can be bothered to look it up.

Except that Bale wouldn't do some of those things because he's a more mature human being.

Again, this is another statement that I stand by, as I've rarely seen any other footballer than Ronaldo so dismissive of his team-mates, so focused on personal glory, not celebrating when team-mates score, etc. That's before you go into his 'off-field activities'.

So apart from writing a wall of text, where you try to put words into my mouth, there was nothing contentious about what I said, and it's pretty much all turned out to be correct. The only thing that isn't correct is that Bale got injured, and he was never going to be indulged to the same extent as Ronaldo anyway.

However, there are plenty of forwards out there who could score similar numbers of goals that Ronaldo has for Real last season, and Juventus this season. This season has been particularly embarrassing for him, as he has been completely mediocre in a terrible league, in which there is absolutely no opposition for Juventus. Yet 19 players have scored more in league football, and he was bang average in the Champions League, with Messi scoring twice as many, and in performance terms being in a different stratosphere.

As it stands now, Ronaldo looks like a massively overpriced signing for Juventus, particularly as he will be 35 next season. A much worse player historically was CF for Real this season, in a team playing much worse, and outscored Ronaldo. Now that Ronaldo isn't playing in a team that creates countless chances for him, he has been absolutely nowhere near the performance level of Messi. It has become completely obvious (as it was anyway) that Messi is by far the best footballer in the world, and Ronaldo shouldn't even be compared to him any more (he shouldn't have been anyway).

That is the reality. Whether or not you choose to face up to that, or not, is up to you.

You still haven't answered my question of whether you're aware that the media continually proclaims Messi to be one of the three greatest ever, many consider him to be the greatest, and very few consider Ronaldo in this league. Are you aware of this? Do you just deny it?

 

[MJJ]

I didn't say Bale is a better player, or should be judged as a better player over his career. In fact, I specifically said this:

As it stands now, he is at least as good as Ronaldo, probably better, and certainly younger and a better long-term prospect.

No, I didn't, I said the following:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/messi-v-ronaldo.400526/page-265#post-22604774

I should have added that Bale was at least as good as Ronaldo, I would say clearly better, when indulged in this way playing for Wales, in a much worse international team, from a much less significant footballing nation, during Euro 2016.

 

[wub1234]

I’m sorry, in a thread full of bad arguments you’re genuinely the worst poster here. It’s just so dumb...

Bear in mind that you believe that Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

So a player who has scored less league goals than:

Lionel Messi
Liliu
Zakaria Beglarishvili
Kylian Mbappé
Patrick Hoban
Mbaye Diagne
Luuk de Jong
Roman Debelko
Robert Skov
Fabio Quagliarella
Dušan Tadić
Liviu Antal
Robert Lewandowski
Duván Zapata
Mohamed Salah
Sergio Aguero
Giorgi Gabedava
Budu Zivzivadze
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Sadio Mané

...who was bang average in the Champions League, and scored half the goals that Messi did, while performing not even remotely at the same level. And who contributes little else other than goal-scoring, with nearly 25% of his goals coming from penalties, is the best footballer in the world?

Whereas Messi, who has scored 48 goals this season, who has outscored Ronaldo 2:1 in open play, who has nearly double the amount of assists, who has scored the most free-kicks in European football, who is one of the most prolific chance creators in European football, who is ranked fourth in the most successful dribbles this season, who is man of the match game after game after game, who has topped most and been near the top of every conceivable statistical category in European football this season (again!), and who is almost unanimously considered to be one of the three greatest players ever, and many believe him to be the absolute greatest, is...according to you...not as good as Ronaldo!

According to you, Ronaldo, who has been far worse than Messi in every single statistical category this season, and who has been outscored by 20 players, is the best player in the world.

That is what you believe. Just let that sink in.

All you can do is drag the Bale post up over and over again, in which I made some predictions. You can't answer anything that I have to say about what has actually happened because you would have to confront reality. You have to result to smear tactics and insults, because you have no substantial arguments, or indeed any arguments at all.

The reality is that Lionel Messi is a significantly better footballer than Cristiano Ronaldo over their careers, and today he is much better.

You can say whatever you want on here, but nothing will change that.

 

[Peyroteo]

Sorry, I didn't realise that I had to do what you said! I didn't realise that you were one of the moderators! Here's me thinking you have no authority to tell me what to do!

In my post, I said the following:

Still stand by that, because Neymar is clearly a better player than Ronaldo now.

I didn't say Bale is a better player, or should be judged as a better player over his career. In fact, I specifically said this:



However, we cannot judge this because he's been injured, and he probably won't ever recover from these injuries.

What we do know is that in a worse team than Ronaldo played in, who have really been struggling, Karim Benzema has scored more goals than Ronaldo this season. If he'd been indulged to the same extent as Ronaldo was as Real, in the team from last season, he probably wouldn't have been far off in terms of goals.

This is hypothetical, but what we know for certain is that he's outscored Ronaldo this season, and outscored him quite comfortably in open play. And I'm sure you would have said last season, when trying to elevate 'Ronaldo's CL win', that Benzema is useless, and that it was a miracle that Ronaldo single-handedly won Real the CL with such a terrible team, and as useless a strike partner as Benzema.

We also know that Juventus paid €100 million for a forward who only performed marginally better than Higuain did last season, and worse than Higuain did two years ago. Furthermore, the Juventus team performed worse than it did with Ronaldo than with Higuain playing. That is simply a fact.

And he's 35 next season, and you think paying €100 million for him is a good deal! Not only that, but you're still clinging on to the delusional idea that he's better than Messi!

Not that surprising, because you were the one who posted on here that teams don't want players like Messi! I have neither the time nor inclination to dig that post up, but that was a classic if people can be bothered to look it up.

Again, this is another statement that I stand by, as I've rarely seen any other footballer than Ronaldo so dismissive of his team-mates, so focused on personal glory, not celebrating when team-mates score, etc. That's before you go into his 'off-field activities'.

So apart from writing a wall of text, where you try to put words into my mouth, there was nothing contentious about what I said, and it's pretty much all turned out to be correct. The only thing that isn't correct is that Bale got injured, and he was never going to be indulged to the same extent as Ronaldo anyway.

However, there are plenty of forwards out there who could score similar numbers of goals that Ronaldo has for Real last season, and Juventus this season. This season has been particularly embarrassing for him, as he has been completely mediocre in a terrible league, in which there is absolutely no opposition for Juventus. Yet 19 players have scored more in league football, and he was bang average in the Champions League, with Messi scoring twice as many, and in performance terms being in a different stratosphere.

As it stands now, Ronaldo looks like a massively overpriced signing for Juventus, particularly as he will be 35 next season. A much worse player historically was CF for Real this season, in a team playing much worse, and outscored Ronaldo. Now that Ronaldo isn't playing in a team that creates countless chances for him, he has been absolutely nowhere near the performance level of Messi. It has become completely obvious (as it was anyway) that Messi is by far the best footballer in the world, and Ronaldo shouldn't even be compared to him any more (he shouldn't have been anyway).

That is the reality. Whether or not you choose to face up to that, or not, is up to you.

You still haven't answered my question of whether you're aware that the media continually proclaims Messi to be one of the three greatest ever, many consider him to be the greatest, and very few consider Ronaldo in this league. Are you aware of this? Do you just deny it?

No, I'm not aware many people think Messi is a great player, I live in North Korea like you said.. I didn't reply because it was way too stupid to deserve a reply. I mean, what the feck? Are you seriously coming in here asking me if I'm aware of loads of people saying Messi is the best?

And I'm trying to put words in your mouth??? I literally quoted you... are you actually thick? I quoted you, those are literally your own words.

You say this:

I didn't say Bale is a better player

Which is, once again, a complete and utter lie. How can you deny something like that when there's literally proof right in front of you? I literally quoted you.

What we do know is that in a worse team than Ronaldo played in, who have really been struggling, Karim Benzema has scored more goals than Ronaldo this season. If he'd been indulged to the same extent as Ronaldo was as Real, in the team from last season, he probably wouldn't have been far off in terms of goals.

This is hypothetical, but what we know for certain is that he's outscored Ronaldo this season, and outscored him quite comfortably in open play. And I'm sure you would have said last season, when trying to elevate 'Ronaldo's CL win', that Benzema is useless, and that it was a miracle that Ronaldo single-handedly won Real the CL with such a terrible team, and as useless a strike partner as Benzema.

We also know that Juventus paid €100 million for a forward who only performed marginally better than Higuain did last season, and worse than Higuain did two years ago. Furthermore, the Juventus team performed worse than it did with Ronaldo than with Higuain playing. That is simply a fact.

So you literally say Ronaldo is a much better player than Benzema despite Benzema scoring as much and being more involved in the build up. Then proceed to judge players on their amount of goals. If Benzema could score as much or more than Ronaldo if he was indulged to the same level, why didn't they do it. If Ronaldo was easily replaced then Real Madrid shouldn't have gone from the best achievement in club football history to their worse season in 20 years... or maybe, just maybe, Ronaldo's impact on the team goes beyond your completely ignorant and deluded view of football.

Saying Ronaldo performed marginally better than Gonzalo Higuain for Juventus is so incredibly stupid I won't even reply to it. You literally do not have the slightest clue or make any bit of sense. It's actually hilarious how you're simultaneously the poster with more condescending posts and with the most posts filled with pure stupidity and lack of logic.

And no, if you're not going to help discussion by shortening your posts I won't bother replying to your 1000 words posts where you make one single point and then proceed to contradict yourself and rewrite the exact same crap over and over using different words in a showcase of pure redundancy and ignorance.

Also...

Not that surprising, because you were the one who posted on here that teams don't want players like Messi! I have neither the time nor inclination to dig that post up, but that was a classic if people can be bothered to look it up.

What a lie

So shameless it's hilarious. Please make the effort and look for it then. Tell me where I said that and quote me. Please

 

[MJJ]

You can say whatever you want on here, but nothing will change that.

Atleast he doesn't lie about what he says over here.

 

[MrEleson]

However, there are plenty of forwards out there who could score similar numbers of goals that Ronaldo has for Real last season, and Juventus this season. This season has been particularly embarrassing for him, as he has been completely mediocre in a terrible league, in which there is absolutely no opposition for Juventus. Yet 19 players have scored more in league football, and he was bang average in the Champions League, with Messi scoring twice as many, and in performance terms being in a different stratosphere.

As it stands now, Ronaldo looks like a massively overpriced signing for Juventus, particularly as he will be 35 next season. A much worse player historically was CF for Real this season, in a team playing much worse, and outscored Ronaldo. Now that Ronaldo isn't playing in a team that creates countless chances for him, he has been absolutely nowhere near the performance level of Messi. It has become completely obvious (as it was anyway) that Messi is by far the best footballer in the world, and Ronaldo shouldn't even be compared to him any more (he shouldn't have been anyway).

No context to these posts whatsoever and so very wrong. You clearly don't watch Juventus play or Serie A for that matter. Scoring a goal for them is much harder than scoring for any other top team. And scoring in Serie A is also much harder than scoring in La Liga NOT because it's a better league (it isn't) but because all of the smaller teams there play with a negative mindset. To them a 0-0 is like a win. They set-up from the start to defend a draw. Conversely, La Liga teams play much more open and expansive football and don't defend even when they're 3-0 down. On top of that, Juve's philosophy was never an attacking one. They're historically a defensive, pragmatic team which is reinforced with Allegri. They are usually content with defending a 1-0 scoreline and seldom score more than 2-3 goal a game (don't even think they've scored 4 times once in a game this season (maybe once)). Real Madrid as horrible as they've been this season have still scored a similar amount of goals in la liga as Juve has in Serie A despite the latter being so ahead of the pack in their league and were originally on course to equal a points record. That tells you all you need to know.

Ronaldo would have scored far more goals if he remained at Real this season as he's actually played at a generally better level than he has at Madrid over the past 2 years.. And he has played less games than Benzema this season btw...but I'm sure you didn't think of factoring that in.

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Most Juve fans I've come across have been thoroughly content with his season and believe he couldn't have done more. Many even believe (if you go on their forums) that they've let Ronaldo down by not surrounding him with enough quality to get the best out of his attacking talents.

Benzema would have probably would have struggled to score 10 goals this season in this Juve team with the kind of service Ronaldo receives.

 

[Tostao_80]

Do we really want to play the quote game? These footballers change thier minds overnight for example Keane in this article says Ronaldo is better:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...-as-he-nominates-a-clear-winner-37033752.html

It would also be interesting to see when those players said he was the best, I would wager it would have been in the 09-11 period when Barca were dominant. The tide has been turning for a while now and by speaking to people I know they are not convinced he's the best ever anymore.

Imo Messi's legacy is taking a battering over recent years with his constant no shoes on the biggest stages.

Leo's reputation has taken such a battering in the last few years? You couldnt be further from truth. Even in 2019, people are still proclaiming him the best ever. But in the last 2 years alone:

http://www.sportbible.com/football/...ing-figures-choose-messi-as-the-goat-20190108

Klopp proclaims Leo the best ever:
https://www.businessinsider.com/lio...parison-to-cristiano-ronaldo-2019-5?r=US&IR=T

Rooney in July 2018 (after Ronaldos 5th CL)
https://www.90min.com/posts/6119749...-the-lionel-messi-vs-cristiano-ronaldo-debate

Leo's legacy is set, nothing that happens from now on in will negate that. He is widely regarded at the very least as one of the three best players of all time by the majority of the football world (fellow players, ex players, current and former managers).

 

[wub1234]

Benzema would have probably would have struggled to score 10 goals this season in this Juve team with the kind of service Ronaldo receives.

As I already pointed out, Higuain scored nearly as many as Ronaldo last season, more than him the previous season, and the team performed better with Higuain as CF than Ronaldo. And that was in a league last season in which Napoli were much stronger than they have been this season.

Serie A is an unbelievably weak league at the moment. The Italian league has never been weaker. Literally, in its history it has never been weaker. Juventus sauntered to the title. A decimated Napoli, who had lost their coach and driving force, still comfortably finished second. The third place team are Atalanta! No-one other than Napoli is even within 25 points of Juventus. No Italian side got beyond the quarter-finals of European competition, and predictably the clubs that made it that far were...Juventus and Napoli! And Napoli were stuffed by a poor Arsenal side, and couldn't even score against them.

Of course, we can't judge Ronaldo on his performances for Juventus, though, because he hasn't got enough quality around him!

 

[wub1234]

This season:

Goals: Messi 48 – 28 Ronaldo

Also, Messi has done this while spending 50% less time in the penalty area, and having less shots per game than Ronaldo, his conversion rate being more than double that of Ronaldo, despite far more of his goals coming from longer range. Furthermore, nearly 25% of Ronaldo's goals have been penalties (although he still celebrates them as if he's dribbled through the entire opposition), and Messi has outscored him 43-22 in open play.

Assists: Messi 18 – 10 Ronaldo

Free-kick goals: Messi 8 – 0 Ronaldo

Interestingly, while Messi has been the most successful free-kick taker in 2018-19, Ronaldo is on the second-longest run without converting based on players from the Premier League, Bundesliga, Serie A and La Liga. So statistically Ronaldo is literally the second worst free-kick taker in the major divisions, whereas Messi is the best.

Key passes: Messi 3.2 – 1.6 Ronaldo

Completed dribbles per game: Messi 4 – 1.5 Ronaldo

Conclusion: Ronaldo is currently the better player. That's what some of you believe. Let that sink in.

 

[Peyroteo]

Bear in mind that you believe that Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

So a player who has scored less league goals than:

Lionel Messi
Liliu
Zakaria Beglarishvili
Kylian Mbappé
Patrick Hoban
Mbaye Diagne
Luuk de Jong
Roman Debelko
Robert Skov
Fabio Quagliarella
Dušan Tadić
Liviu Antal
Robert Lewandowski
Duván Zapata
Mohamed Salah
Sergio Aguero
Giorgi Gabedava
Budu Zivzivadze
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Sadio Mané

...who was bang average in the Champions League, and scored half the goals that Messi did, while performing not even remotely at the same level. And who contributes little else other than goal-scoring, with nearly 25% of his goals coming from penalties, is the best footballer in the world?

Great post, geniunely fantastic. Clearly a metric that puts Zakaria Beglarishvilli as a better player than Cristiano Ronaldo is the best metric to use. I mean, there are plenty of people here who prefer Messi who make sense for believing in it and it's a valid opinion to have. I'll discuss football with anyone but you're the first person ever that your arguments are so incredibly awful it's geniunely pointless. Even when you're right about something, your arguments as to why it's right are generally completely irrelevant and nonsensical.

2 lines, 3 lies.

First lie: I never said Ronaldo was the best player in the world this season. Messi's had a better season than him, stop putting words in my mouth please.

Second lie: Ronaldo was bang average in the Champions League. Don't think this needs an explanation as to how incredibly false it is.

Third lie: 25% of his goals come from penalties...

If you go from a redundancy expert, to a complete ignorant to just straight up lying then things can't be going well.

Whereas Messi, who has scored 48 goals this season, who has outscored Ronaldo 2:1 in open play, who has nearly double the amount of assists, who has scored the most free-kicks in European football, who is one of the most prolific chance creators in European football, who is ranked fourth in the most successful dribbles this season, who is man of the match game after game after game, who has topped most and been near the top of every conceivable statistical category in European football this season (again!), and who is almost unanimously considered to be one of the three greatest players ever, and many believe him to be the absolute greatest, is...according to you...not as good as Ronaldo!

Yeah, because I don't rate players by the stupid and ocmpletely irrelevant metrics you do. How do you think their goal totals would look like if Messi played for Juventus and Ronaldo for Barcelona? Ronaldo went from 50 and 40 a season to struggling to get 30... Messi won't ever have to go through the same now will he?

You're literally the guy who argued their goal totals were entirely dependant on their team and how much they created for them... which is the logic you use to claim Benzema and Bale would score as much as Ronaldo if Real Madrid felt like it. And then choose to completely ignore your own logic for Messi at Barcelona as if it wasn't easier to get 50 goals a season there than anywhere ele on the planet.

All you can do is drag the Bale post up over and over again, in which I made some predictions. You can't answer anything that I have to say about what has actually happened because you would have to confront reality. You have to result to smear tactics and insults, because you have no substantial arguments, or indeed any arguments at all.

I'm not insulting you. If you do not make sense at all, contradict yourself, refuse to use logic, deny blatant truths and straight up lie, I'm not the one difficulting discussion by saying how incredibly stupid it is.

It is literally impossible to respond fully to your posts because I'd be here hours and hours since I continuously ask you to make your posts shorter to be able to have any sort of sensible discussion that can be followed instead of picking 1000 words posts for their contradictions. I contradict your arguments, make my own, and then in the next post you give up on your own arguments to make 700 new points of how something happens.

You literally made a 37 line post that could be summed up to 'Are you aware many former player and managers think Messi is better'?

 

[MrEleson]

As I already pointed out, Higuain scored nearly as many as Ronaldo last season, more than him the previous season, and the team performed better with Higuain as CF than Ronaldo. And that was in a league last season in which Napoli were much stronger than they have been this season.

Juve were stronger last season than this year. Key players like Pjanic, Dybala & D.Costa have failed to replicate their level from last year this year. Ronaldo has had to shoulder most of the responsibility. Furthermore, Higuain scored 5 goals less than Ronaldo (as it stands) despite having played 10(!) games more. You really like to cherry pick numbers without the application of context.

Also, Serie A being weak doesn't negate the fact that every team there parks their entire 11 in front of the net and Juve barely try to play football and score goals.

 

[MrEleson]

This season:

Goals: Messi 48 – 28 Ronaldo

Also, Messi has done this while spending 50% less time in the penalty area, and having less shots per game than Ronaldo, his conversion rate being more than double that of Ronaldo, despite far more of his goals coming from longer range. Furthermore, nearly 25% of Ronaldo's goals have been penalties (although he still celebrates them as if he's dribbled through the entire opposition), and Messi has outscored him 43-22 in open play.

Assists: Messi 18 – 10 Ronaldo

Free-kick goals: Messi 8 – 0 Ronaldo

Interestingly, while Messi has been the most successful free-kick taker in 2018-19, Ronaldo is on the second-longest run without converting based on players from the Premier League, Bundesliga, Serie A and La Liga. So statistically Ronaldo is literally the second worst free-kick taker in the major divisions, whereas Messi is the best.

Key passes: Messi 3.2 – 1.6 Ronaldo

Completed dribbles per game: Messi 4 – 1.5 Ronaldo

Conclusion: Ronaldo is currently the better player. That's what some of you believe. Let that sink in.

Yeah and Messi has been playing with the same players over and over and over and over again. Ronaldo has had to adapt to a new league, new teammates, learn a new language etc. Do you genuinely believe Messi would be scoring 48 goals in this Juve team?

I know Messi is more creative but the assists total can easily be countered by the fact that he has Suarez next to him who has 20+ league goals while the next good scorer next to Ronaldo barely has 10 and that player has been injured (Mandzukic). The player after that is an 18 year old with 5 and no-one else can hit a barn door.

 

[Peyroteo]

Conclusion: Ronaldo is currently the better player. That's what some of you believe. Let that sink in.

Imagine someone who said Gareth Bale is a better football player than Ronaldo a few months ago being so unaware of how ridiculously stupid their posts are that they don't have any shame in writing this sentence. Let that sink in.

I love how you say Benzema is nowhere near the player that Ronaldo is... but then use stats to say Messi is better, that would also make Benzema look better. I'd love to know where you actually rate Ronaldo as a player, with the stats you use to back up a player and the logic you use he can't be in the 100 best players in the world or close to it.

So just how many players are better than Ronaldo in your opinion? You've already made it clear he's nowhere near Messi or Neymar... he's only slightly better than Higuain. The likes of Lewandowski beat him on every single statistical category you judge players on, you say you stand by your opinions on Bale being better and having more potential... so just how many players are better than Cristiano Ronaldo in your opinion?

 

[wub1234]

Third lie: 25% of his goals come from penalties...

Furthermore, nearly 25% of Ronaldo's goals have been penalties

The reason I was using 25% as a benchmark is that it's one-quarter, which is easy for people to understand.

If you would prefer then over one-fifth of Ronaldo's goal this season have been penalties, or 22% to the nearest integer.

I know that you can't respond to anything that I'm saying with substantial arguments, but please don't tell lies. It's quite rude. Especially when you're accusing me of lying.

Yeah, because I don't rate players by the stupid and ocmpletely irrelevant metrics you do. How do you think their goal totals would look like if Messi played for Juventus and Ronaldo for Barcelona?

Isn't this what you say all of the time? Don't you always say, it doesn't matter what Messi did earlier in his career because he had Xavi and Iniesta, so therefore everything he did at that time is null and void?

The only metric you and other Ronaldo fans rate players by is how many times they've won the Champions League, because it's the only metric via which Ronaldo can compete with Messi! What other metrics would you measure them by? In every metric, Messi is ahead. Apart from goals scored, where Ronaldo is marginally ahead because he's older, but Messi will overtake him imminently.

In every statistic, in every technical aspect of the game, Messi is superior.

Saying Ronaldo performed marginally better than Gonzalo Higuain for Juventus is so incredibly stupid I won't even reply to it.

You can't respond to it because Ronaldo scored 28 goals this season, which is only five more than Higuain in the previous season, and less than Higuain scored in the season before that. Furthermore, Juventus scored less goals than last season, and also failed to win the Coppa Italia for the first time in five years. They also reached the final of the CL in two of the last four seasons, whereas this season they went out in the quarter-finals.

So, overall, it's generous to say that Ronaldo performed better than Higuain, and accurate to say that Juventus performed better last season, and in previous seasons, than they did this season.

In your previous post you were virtually frothing at the mouth and engaging in numerous personal insults. While I don't care about this, I'm not going to get involved in something so juvenile with someone who is either a child, or old enough to know better. I would strongly suggest that you take a deep breath, count to ten, and reflect on your own conduct, as it is unbecoming of anyone who is an adult.

 

[wub1234]

learn a new language etc.

Ronaldo is now one of the worst free-kick takers in the world because he's had to learn a new language. This is a good one.

Do you genuinely believe Messi would be scoring 48 goals in this Juve team?

It's hard to say, as it's hypothetical, but I'm 100% confident that he would walk into that league and be the best player by a country mile. However, it's pointless to discuss these hypothetical things, and when you do then obsessive people dredge them up continually 12 months later.

Messi is never going to leave Barcelona because it's where he grew up, and he's happy there. There is no reason for him to leave.

Also, it is inaccurate and unreasonable to state that Messi continues to play with players that he grew up with. They've virtually all gone now, and today he's playing with Suarez, Coutinho, Dembele, Rakitic, Arthur, Vidal, etc, players he hasn't been around for all that long.

The reason Barcelona are so good is simply because Messi makes them good.

Also, virtually no club on the planet could afford to sign Messi, and no Barcelona president would ever be allowed to let him go, even if bizarrely he did want to leave.

So the argument about him not testing himself in other countries is unfair. However, if Messi did play in Serie A or the Premier League, I'm certain he would be the best player by some distance. It's impossible to say how many goals he would score, but Messi's game isn't about goals, he just happens to score 50 goals per season because he's a genius.

Of course, he can't ever go to Serie A because the only club that would have the slightest chance of buying him would be Juventus, and Ronaldo is not going to allow himself to be completely outshone, obviously. Although it would be a terrible move for Messi in footballing terms because Serie A has never been weaker. I don't think anyone can argue against that.

 

[Peyroteo]

The reason I was using 25% as a benchmark is that it's one-quarter, which is easy for people to understand.

Yeah, people really have the trouble of understanding the concept of 22%. When you break a pizza in 4 that's 25% for slice but 22%? Now that's a struggle to visualize in my mind.

I know that you can't respond to anything that I'm saying with substantial arguments, but please don't tell lies. It's quite rude. Especially when you're accusing me of lying.

Isn't this what you say all of the time? Don't you always say, it doesn't matter what Messi did earlier in his career because he had Xavi and Iniesta, so therefore everything he did at that time is null and void?

No? Where did I say that? I never said that at all, that would be an incredibly stupid thing to say.
Please stop arguing what you pretend I said and argue what I say.

Did you just accuse me of lying without saying what I was lying about?

The only metric you and other Ronaldo fans rate players by is how many times they've won the Champions League, because it's the only metric via which Ronaldo can compete with Messi! What other metrics would you measure them by? In every metric, Messi is ahead. Apart from goals scored, where Ronaldo is marginally ahead because he's older, but Messi will overtake him imminently.

In every statistic, in every technical aspect of the game, Messi is superior.

No, in the statistic and technical aspects you care about Messi is superior. Which is a great coincidence. Saying Messi is better than Ronaldo is a valid opinion, saying he's better at every single thing in the sport is so incredibly stupid you can't even believe in it. It's delusion and lunacy to a point where there's no point arguing. And I know it because I've literally argued it with you before and said what metrics I use, why I used them and why it made more sense than your irrelevant stats that depend entirely on the circumstances around them.

You can't respond to it because Ronaldo scored 28 goals this season, which is only five more than Higuain in the previous season, and less than Higuain scored in the season before that. Furthermore, Juventus scored less goals than last season, and also failed to win the Coppa Italia for the first time in five years. They also reached the final of the CL in two of the last four seasons, whereas this season they went out in the quarter-finals.

So, overall, it's generous to say that Ronaldo performed better than Higuain, and accurate to say that Juventus performed better last season, and in previous seasons, than they did this season.

So 7 lines after telling me that judging players on their team success is a wrong metric, you write this... are you serious?

At the same time you say Neymar is a better player than Ronaldo, the same player who arrived with Kylian Mbappe in Paris, replaced Lucas Moura and PSG proceeded to get worse results while Lucas Moura got to the CL final with Tottenham. Oh right, I forgot the level of complete delusion that's happening. A certain logic is only right when it leads to the conclusion you want.

Do you even realize just how incredibly stupid you sound when you're comparing Cristiano Ronaldo to Gonzalo Higuain or Gareth Bale? Do you have even a tiny bit of selfawareness?

 

[Righteous Steps]

This season:

Goals: Messi 48 – 28 Ronaldo

Also, Messi has done this while spending 50% less time in the penalty area, and having less shots per game than Ronaldo, his conversion rate being more than double that of Ronaldo, despite far more of his goals coming from longer range. Furthermore, nearly 25% of Ronaldo's goals have been penalties (although he still celebrates them as if he's dribbled through the entire opposition), and Messi has outscored him 43-22 in open play.

Assists: Messi 18 – 10 Ronaldo

Free-kick goals: Messi 8 – 0 Ronaldo

Interestingly, while Messi has been the most successful free-kick taker in 2018-19, Ronaldo is on the second-longest run without converting based on players from the Premier League, Bundesliga, Serie A and La Liga. So statistically Ronaldo is literally the second worst free-kick taker in the major divisions, whereas Messi is the best.

Key passes: Messi 3.2 – 1.6 Ronaldo

Completed dribbles per game: Messi 4 – 1.5 Ronaldo

Conclusion: Ronaldo is currently the better player. That's what some of you believe. Let that sink in.

The craziest thing is people would still argue with the post, it doesn’t matter if he dribbles less scores less create less, less efficient because he is 6ft tall and has a better ‘mentality’